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So how is Stygian Abyss Client different from Kingdom Reborn?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JC the Builder, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    They just announced open beta on the uo.com website. Someone explain what they fixed.

    The next patcher is nice and seems to be working well. I was getting 2.3MB per second at first but now it has slowed to less than half, most likely because a lot more people are downloading. One issue I saw is they still haven't changed it so it opens links in your default web browser instead of Internet Explorer.
     
  2. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Don't compare apples with oranges.
     
  3. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    It's alot different than KR.
     
  4. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    JC! you got it downloaded already? wow!!:D but you don't like it?
     
  5. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I wasn't in the beta. I started 10 minutes ago. It says 16% downloaded in the title bar. Now fluctuating between 100-500 kilobits per second.
     
  6. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    The SA Client is an attempt to take the best things from KR and merge them with the best things from the 2D Client.

    The SA Client uses legacy artwork, not the KR artwork.

    I hope everyone gives it a chance and tries it out for a good while before coming to a final opinion -- and remember this is still a beta client so they are still fixing the bugs that may arise.

    I was not a KR user, I love my 2D, but I have big hopes for the SA Client.

    The Dev Team has been working hard on the future of UO. Let's hope SA is a huge success.
     
  7. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Oh really? Between this and the notes Here, this looks very good.
     
  8. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Download is at 92% but has slowed to 10-20KB per second. Most likely will take as long now as it took to get to 90% =[.
     
  9. Grumm

    Grumm Guest

    You are correct. Same issue everyone had downloading it for the closed beta.
     
  10. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    It has a targeting system like 2D's as default, it seems to have been optimized to be a lot faster and crash less, it has a nice new atlas mode, and should have blurry edges removed from all of the various sprites (though some of them themselves are still a bit blurry.. human models still need work, dangit), as well as some new targeting and macro options.

    Only real problem is that custom UI stuff isn't currently working.. er.. if this is the same thing as testers have that is.. don't hold me to that bit.
     
  11. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    The main difference from KR is that when I log in to SA I feel like I am playing UO, not some cretinous imitation.

    95% of my interface habits translate to proper functionality in the SA client.

    There are some sore spots and rough edges, but I think they have substantially razed the barriers to wide scale adoption of the new client.
     
  12. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I made it in.

    I definitely can tell right away the client is better. However there are still lots of bugs and puzzling features. For example there is a detailed skill explanation window that also has a link to the UO website. But you can't click on that link to open a browser window. You also can not copy and paste it. I guess the expect us to type it out?

    Also I can't find legacy container view. It doesn't appear implemented.

    *Added*

    Never mind, you need to check Legacy Containers under the Legacy Tab and reopen them.

    *Added*

    It looks like they managed to figure out how to make custom menus. The housing placement and house sign menus look like their 2D form. Others such as a the skills page look more like the original Kingdom Reborn style.
     
  13. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I didn't get that far. I ran my character and all I could think of was Bevis and Butthead. I expected my character to take off on his own and run to the nearest player's house and window peek. The world looks good, but the character just moves like a pervert. If they fix the movement animations, it would make a lot of difference right at the start. Straighten the character up, pull the elbows in, and make 'em look normal in their movements.
     
  14. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I've only been checking out some options and recalled to our guild castle, then ran around for about 30 seconds. Client memory has spiked to 440MB and doesn't show any signs of going down. I am assuming there is a memory leak.

    *Added*

    A few minutes of running has the client eating up 740MB.
     
  15. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Downloading the client now. I really hope its not as bad as KR . The character movement was something I just could not deal with. Guess Ill know in an hour or so.
     
  16. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    That's odd, JC, and definitely needs reporting, as I have been running the client for several months without that issue. To my knowledge, there were not any memory leaks as of yesterday ...
     
  17. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    We did get a new patch last night though... could be somethin brand new.
     
  18. Supreem

    Supreem Founder, Citadel Studios
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    Because UO is an open world, you can need any asset at any time. The game uses as much memory as you have available to store things for quick access. It will try to keep something like 20% of your memory free if it can.
     
  19. Chrissay_

    Chrissay_ Guest

    I've made some pages of the Client Guide live so that everyone can review some of the different aspects of the new client.

    The playguide can be found here http://www.uoherald.com/guide/index.php
     
  20. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think that is a good idea. There should be a set limit to how much resources the client is going to use. If that is true than it is going to eventually use 2.8GB of my 3.5GB available. If I need to launch another program, there could be a problem. If for any reason UO doesn't have accurate information on how much memory is available, it should conceivably continue using it until it ends up forcing windows to start using the page file.

    The CPU needs seem to be heavily optimized. I am seeing an average of 8%. Haven't seen it spike over 25% yet.
     
  21. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Ok, well SA is just like KR. Not much difference in the way it looks. Same ole same ole.

    My two main complaints:

    Characters run out of sync with the ground. Did with 3rd Dawn , KR and still with SA. Terrible.

    Cant see the forest for the trees, all of the landscape blends in with the ground. Unless you really try hard it is difficult to see any perspective of the trees to the ground. Everything blends together.

    I was hoping for something different than KR offered. Not so.

    Oh well, better luck next time.
     
  22. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    The thing with KR is when you set the FPS to 60 instead of 30 the whole thing ran like a dream. Better than 2D ever did in fact. It was fluid and everything was as instantanious as it could be. Thats one of the things I hope I don't lose with the SA client.

    I started out in 2D and couldn't stand 3D, at first I hated KR until someone told me to edit my FPS and how (It's set at a cap of 30 normally). Since then I simply can't play 2D anymore oO. PvP and PvE became as fluid as water, 2D always has that very short delay that I never really noticed till KR and the minor tweak.
     
  23. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
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    Just out of curiosity, which forest did you see this blending problem? Do you have a screenshot? I remember the blending problem you speak of in the KR client, but the SA client uses the legacy art for the foliage, so I am not experiencing this myself.

    This screenshot was taken at the default zoom level in the SA client.
     
  24. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    You couldn't possibly have played the SA Client. The artwork is the legacy artwork for things like the background. It is not like the KR graphics. Ask Dermott!
     
  25. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    If I were to be asked to name one thing that makes SA infinitely better than KR in terms of UI it would be the option 'stored' on the targeting options. If you haven't yet found it, try it.
    Then move over to the new beta forum to talk about it :D
     
  26. I disagree... I have 8 GB of RAM available. Why would it make any sense to limit the client to say less than 2 GB to make your computer happy when mine can use so much more? The more information available in RAM, the faster the game will run. As RAM gets cheaper and cheaper, computers will be stocked with more and more. So it makes good sense for the client to use as much memory as possible.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    If they were going to cater to the people with the highest end computers, SA would never have been a thought....

    Now that being said I believe they need to limit the amount of memory it uses just slightly better than they do currently, perhaps being able to read how much memory is available and limit it based on that, such as if you have 3gb maybe 50% limit, but if you are like old man with 8gb of ram perhaps limiting it to closer to the current 20% is a better idea. Assuming the client already reads memory and other computer settings I see no reason why they would not be able to do this.
     
  28. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    One also has to remember that while many people in North America & some western European countries have high-end computers, or even relatively new low-end ones, the majority of the playerbase (i.e. those in Asia, Eastern Europe, and other locales, lower-income Westerners, as well as people who chose to bypass using Vista completely) are still probably using XP-tech-level machines to play UO, if not lower.

    There's a reason why the benchmark processor speed for KR in 2007 was 1/3 that of the $400 Wal-mart single-core Celeron processor Thanksgiving specials of 2006.
     
  29. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I might be in the same boat as JC right now, it seems to be more of a leak than simply usage....The client slows down at the higher memory useage indicating a leak rather than it actually using the memory. Could be something else I suppose.
     
  30. DPudding

    DPudding Guest

    It's a leak. I was close to 800 meg when I noticed. Got very slow.....on a machine with 6 gig.
     
  31. That is not what Supreme said... it has nothing to do with "catering" to any computer system. The client adjusts memory usage based on available memory, so if you have a computer with less memory, it still leaves the 20% overhead available. If you have more memory available, it would use what's available.

    Now that said, if there really is a memory leak, that has nothing to do with the dynamic memory allocation. This is what Windows does by default when allocating the size of the swap file. Of course, to do what you suggest, the memory usage could be fixed and adjustable... just not sure if that is necessary or has anything to do with your "memory leak."
     
  32. And also the reason that KR ran so poorly right out of the beta. Developers' decisions to limit things like the frame rate to 30 FPS, degrade the graphics, and such, really hurt KR. Putting in the tweaks to allow users to adjust performance to their computer is the best way to handle this.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Well when I posted my suggestion I didn't think there was a possible leak....I just gave an option, But my reply was not to Supreme it was only really relevant to what you had said to JC, and in turn what JC had said. I was just saying if they were trying to cater to more powerful computers then SA would not have ever been a thought. :p

    But 20% could be very little memory is what I was thinking when I replied (depending on your system) in JC's case I suppose 20% is not so bad, I don't assume he would need more than half a gig of ram for what ever he was planning on opening, and at the same time I don't assume you would need 2 gigs. :p But I thought my idea for how to handle the memory would be over all better across the board, and it would be fitting for any system type.

    On a side note, I assume you are not experiencing any slow down with the client? I admittingly would rather not blame the client for this but I can not seem to think of any other reason, since it is the reason the memory is being "used" and it is slowing down at the higher end of the usage. I also only have 4 gigs on this system, but...if SA really needs a more powerful machine than the one I am on we may be in trouble since people were complaining about KR. heh
     
  34. Looks like there is a "hidden" cache size setting in the UserSettings.xml file... here is the default:

    <AssetCache>
    <Memory AssetMemoryMax="0" ClientMemoryMax="0" MinFreeSystemMemory="5242880" />
    <Age MaxLifetime="450000" MinLifetime="50000" />
    </AssetCache>
     
  35. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I did see this, not to sure what to change it to tho if it actually is the cuase of my trouble. heh, ideas perhaps?
     
  36. DrDolittle

    DrDolittle Journeyman
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    It does not look a lot different. My BROWN dragon is still red (or that pinkish color that passes for red anyway). :sad3:

    I remember them saying that there would be a way to import existing 2D macros. Was that done?
     
  37. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I think they said it would port KR macro's, I think the legacy thing was tossed around as an idea but not sure it was ever taken in. And it does look A LOT different, the character models may be that of KR but the art work is 2d, and really does your dragon have to be brown? *sighs* *once again points out disappointment in how the looks of a game are determining its success"
     
  38. Does this mean that screenshots we took of the closed Beta can now be released for public viewing or are we still under the NDS?
     
  39. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
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    As long as the screenshots don't reveal any SA content you can release them. Per Chrissay, anything you can do in a regular shard with the SA client is fair game.
     
  40. BTeng_Mythic

    BTeng_Mythic UO Legend
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    Yep, that setting is accessible from the Graphics tab of the User Settings within the client now.

    The other thing to note is if you are running into any sort of screen tearing, you can also try enabling the v-sync option to help reduce it.

    Increasing the max FPS or enabling v-sync does have impacts on performance, though.
     

  41. I had a problem with the SA art, I was getting headaches while playing in SA Beta but got nothing while in old 2d. I still don't like the avatar thing on the health bars, seems dumb to have it there, why do I need a picture of me in the health bar? Since it still a closed beta concerning the new lands I just wait till I can show my screen shots, I hate to give anything away that those people not in the closed beta cannot see yet.

    The grid work for the back pack seem really small and it was hard to move items around in it. I still did not like the interface in SA, it was to much like KR and I was lost when setting up macro that I use in 2d. Took me forever to set just one spell key.

    I also like UOA really to much after using it for 8 years its really hard to give it up and try to use the interface being forced on us in the SA. I did not like the atlas in SA, no resizing possible like UOAM and it poping out in the center of my screen was a pain, I run my UOAM in the lower right corner. Sad that it will not be updated for those new lands as many of us just like it more.
     
  42. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I am actually liking it. Looks a lot like the KR interface, and will take a little getting used to, for sure.
    The graphics are okay...even the creatures look different, but good.
    spells, look okay
    still run sideways a lot on my ossie, but we are in beta, afterall

    Seriously gonna give this one a fair shot, and hoping for the best ;)
    At least with SA, I was able to download it, patch it, change FPS to 60, and go play, didn't have to have a degree in computer science to make it run :danceb:
     
  43. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    For those who find a diminution in quality from 2d, see this thread:

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=148276

    While it has significant constraints, getting the vertical scaling nailed will render a nice sharp look of similar or better quality to the 2d tiles.

    I find personally, that the eye strain and headache manifestation is essentially completely ameliorated by tweaking the scaling.
     
  44. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Downloading it now. So ill have my two cents in shortly. Only one thing I'm looking for and will see....
     
  45. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Say What?!?!
    You better leave that thing alone!!
    :dunce:

    *runs off to look up the new word*
     
  46. DrDolittle

    DrDolittle Journeyman
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    Well, my dragon has been brown for nine years and I would prefer that he remain brown. Is that really too much to expect from an expansion who’s hallmark is supposed to be better graphics?

    Edit: I just logged my warrior character in with SA to check the graphics on his swamp dragon. When I dismounted the pet he was riding at log-in it vanished and followers went to 0/5. Logged back in with 2D but the pet was still gone. Wonderful feature...
     
  47. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I also seemed to notice more lag as the memory inched closer to 1GB.

    Having a gigantic cache can be worse than pulling fresh data from the hard disk. The latency time searching all that RAM will keep going up the more of it there is. The 2D client stays around 150MB and still feels faster than the new SA client.
     
  48. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Better? I'm wondering why, after KR graphics bombed, they are trying to force feed them to us in another version.

    Ugh! But thanks for beta testing.
     
  49. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    What makes you think they are going to 'search' the ram? The program will contain pointers to whatever memory objects it has loaded.

    A big RAM cache will yield superior performance to reading a file from disk. Always, barring bizarre irrelevant corner cases.
     
  50. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    All the art tiles are from 2d. Avatar, critters and landscape are new and, in my opinion, overall superior to 2d.

    You should not have to do this, but I suggest you check the thread I linked above and try SA without any vertical scaling.