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So if necromancy drops below 99 you lose vamp form, right?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ender, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    So if taming drops below minimum skill to control a pet, you lose the pet?

    If no, why not? It's only fair.
     
  2. no but you cant control it so no point in having it really get over it or move on
     
  3. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    But I thought this change was about balancing the game... If you hit 98.9 necro vamp embrace will be gone. You have to recast it. Should only be the same for lam --- I mean tamers with skill jewelry. I mean, vamp embrace is really to warriors what pets are to tamers, tankability.
     
  4. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    It's not like your skill scroll drop out of your spellbook and you have to hunt to get a new scroll for your book. You just can't use the spell.

    as soon you add back your jewelry again, you can use the skill again.

    Same with Tamers, you do not lose the pet so you have to retame/bond the pet or a new pet.

    As soon the tamer get his jewelry back, he can use his pet again. If he try to use it without the skills, it may very well go wild and get lost.

    To me, the changes to vamp form it look fair.
     
  5. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Ender, are you REALLY this clueless about how taming works?

    If a Tamer can't control a pet, then each command they give (even a FOLLOW or STAY command) will lower the pet's loyalty, while the pet REFUSES to obey. Afte r a few refusals, the pet goes wild, and they LOSE IT. PERIOD. At best, the tamer has to hope to god they are in a place that allows recall, and have a rune next to a stable, so that the still bonded (and extremely unhappy) pet can be stabled before it goes wild.

    Anyone who has ever witnessed the LOSS of pets in the Citadel Peerless, because some bard brought disco into the area, and Travesty copied the bard, discoed the tamer, and THEIR SKILL DROPPED BELOW THE ABILITY TO CONTROL (causing the pet to go wild), knows that.

    There is ZERO relevance to Taming, in the Necro FIX. Vamp Form is to Warriors without at least 70 real skill in necro as snowballs are to beach parties. There is nothing comparable in taming to the change being done to fix something that never should have been possible in the first place. And I can say that as a NON-TAMER and as a WARRIOR. Get over it.
     
  6. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    If you are looking or fairness in balancing the templates then don't come to UO. Tamers dominate PvM in many cases and PvP in some 1v2(1v tamer and pet) cases.Tamers being brought into line with other templates,power wise, will be on the same publish that will introduce the rest of the virtues. In other words,it will never happen. Dev's love the tamer template and would rather kick their mom in the shins than to fix the overpoweredness of tamers. Yeah sure the Devs said they will do a balancing pass,haha and I have ocean front property in Arizona to sell if you would like to have it cheap,I'll even throw in a free bridge.
     
  7. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Is somebody gonna lose there sampire...lol!!

    Listen its long overdue fix!! the sampire was bending the rules to the max!!!

    play and adapt...

    or just wait and see how the clever japanese players rework the template and copy it again...lol
     
  8. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    You seem to be starting a lot of threads about this.

    Get over it and grow up.

    This is only a game, no point getting your panties in a knot.

    I thought you were considering quiting?
     
  9. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest


    I`m not going to say whats already been said here by others that DO get how taming works.Your just mad you can`t work around the same rules us tamers hafta follow too,bout freeking time.

    If you don`t like your minimum skill to drop below 99,I`d suggest working said skill to 99 or leaving your jewelry on,like the rest of us hafta do.

    But do keep up the whinning,it is comical reading for this Sunday morning.
     
  10. Just make a change to the template. You'll probably be glad you did once you've got the change made.
     
  11. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    It's already been explained countless times that if you remove taming skill jewellery you stand the very real risk of losing a pet's loyalty when you command it. Said items have to be on to keep the pet. We don't keep twinked pet control if we remove items. Sampires maintained vamp form when they did remove them. Seems pretty clear to me...

    That said, all the crying on Uhall will get taming changed, then you'll all have to figure out a new line to cry about when it comes to tamers. Jeremy has said several times and there was also mention at least once at a town hall that tamers would be balanced. It'll happen, so you'll get your chance to gloat, presuming you've stuck around after this round of complaining.

    Wenchy
     
  12. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    1. Change ur template(like when they changed how taming/lore works tamers were forced to get higher taming skill)

    2. Leave all the skill items on (like tamers do when they want to USE their pets.)

    3. Quit (like some tamers who cant change their template and quit)

    I used all tamer examples just for you.
     
  13. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    In all fairness Using jewlery "just" to stable your pets should be forced under this "rule" too!

    I use both! necro and taming for stabling but really whats fair is fair right. If at any time you take off your jewlery(severline/reall/other jewley) you should lose random pets to guard whackings due to the leaving the stable and going wild since your over follower points!
     
  14. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Heh, I think taming skills should have been like spellweaving - never on the list of skills boostable with items. Pity the dev team didn't just add bracelet and ring slots, they added the mark of travesty and totem of twinkiness too *sigh* Still, at least the totem ot twinkiness makes the twinks easy to spot ;) I want real skill determining pet bonding, control and stable slots, but I'd sooner see the items nuked entirely for such a powerful profession. Though I can sense many tamers getting a little Wenchy doll and sticking pins in it soon lol.

    Wenchy
     
  15. Well it already happens... If you take the taming jewels off that control a pet, they get bitchy and wont listen and eventually will go wild.
     
  16. Prince Erik

    Prince Erik Journeyman
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    If you try to use a pet without your jewelry as others have pointed out you will lose your pet. I don't see any problem with that. Now if you could increase your stable slots by putting on jewelry, stable a pet and then take off the jewelry then that would need fixing too. Since you can't, I don't think there's a good taming related parallel.

    -P.E.
     
  17. Actually, you can do exactly that.
     
  18. Very true. Nothing like a bunch of necros discussing taming lol :hahaha:
     
  19. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    a pet cannot be well used below the required amount of taming and lore, as others have said, since every command issues a loyality check.
    So you have the same situation as a warrior who gets cursed and drops armor parts or weapons with higher strength requirement as his strength after the curse spell to his backpack.
    They are still there, but no longer usable until the spell wears off.
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  20. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    I've had GM+ necromancy and spirit speak on my sampire since 2005, and even I know what this latest nerf was about: A bunch of insta-tamers with Advanced Character Tokens and +skill jewels shrieking for months that a sampire getting vamp form from jewels was hax.

    I want tamer pets exploding out of the stable or being deleted the moment those jewels giving the extra slots come off.

    I want some kind of nerf to greater dragons. These were, frankly, the most idiotic and blatant "we love this template" change I've seen out of the developers in many years. I mean since basically forever people have been asking to tame ancient wyrms, and successive crews of developer have all said that would be ridiculously overpowered.

    But hey, here comes the current crew! We'll just call them "greater dragons" instead and hope no one notices it's the old "tame ancient wyrms" proposal that's been getting tossed around and rejected for years and years!

    The justification was really two-faced, too, with a bunch of nonsense about "the majesty of dragons" or whatever, instead of a simple, truthful "we want to buff the crap out of tamers!"

    Seriously, tamers needed a major buff? TAMERS?

    The nerf stick is overdue.
     
  21. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    /agree with everything in that post, and I play(ed) a Sampire, AND I play a tamer.
     
  22. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Use Necro jewels to animate dead on a horse corpse.
    Suddenly, not on foot!
     
  23. Amgedpha

    Amgedpha Guest

    I'm pretty sure once you mount the dead horse, it takes up a follower slot.

    I personally play a ninja/tamer (just for fun of it), so I can still run around at mounted speed with my super dragon. However, I lose my ability to cast heal on my pets unless I change back to human. That can get pretty tough when I'm dealing with a hard monster.
     
  24. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    Since I've already proven repeatedly that a Sampire is more powerful than a Greater Dragon, I have to laugh.

    Not only in soloing Peerless, but mine on TC was able to toe-to-toe kill every single GD you guys threw at me, and never go below 50% health (disproving the whole PvP side of argument).


    But then none of that is really related to the change to +skill items and forms, which was a bandaid fix for the fact that +skill items should have been +% since the beginning - working the same way crafting talismans do, rather than actually giving bonus skill points.
     
  25. Clarifier

    Clarifier Guest

    Stable slots and bonding should be determined by your real skill. Other than that I'd say taming jewels work as intended. I don't see the sampire thing as a big nerf, just keep your necro items on and all is well.
     
  26. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    heh...ya learn something new everyday! thanks for the lesson.

    this does need to get looked at...but in relation to it being an exploit...not a tamer only thing.
     
  27. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    in defense of the nutjobs...I do have to say that it DOES take a specialized temp to hammer it out on those tamers. :)

    EoO+tact+anat+120 wep skill+100 dmg inc+good slayer wep = greater drag pwnage!

    Considering the OP plays mainly dexxers...I am surprised by the complaint.
     
  28. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    A chalenge I must say you are a brave one my 919 SP vamp/chiv tamer will roll the floor with your samipre any day of the week!
     
  29. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Personal exchanges belong in PM (which, btw, are also subject to RoC).
    Carry on.
     
  30. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think just pull the taming jewels completely, then these guys have much less to cry about. Especially with the damage balancing pass we're supposed to get. End twinking completely then the only players with greater dragons will be those who went out and trained the skills.

    Wenchy
     
  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I'm good with that!
     
  32. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    In fact, Amgedpha is right...
    I could have sworn it wasn't taking up a follower slot last night, but testing it now takes up a follower slot...
    Too much necro training, I'll bet:sad4:
     
  33. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    rtlfc

    could have been a stealth change to that issue too. :D

    to avoid more commotion here since ppl didnt mention it. :)
     
  34. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    To be honest I see the Tamer die in PvP much more often than I see the Dragon eat someone. People know they are a real threat, with a Greater Dragon, so a couple of archers popping them usually takes care of the situation.

    Though on a side note it's funny how many people I see running around on Cu Sidhe, Nightmares, and Dread Warhorses are cluttering up their packs with top end Taming jewels and and a Birds of Britannia Talisman.

    How bout we get a "Can't Control it Can't Ride it movement"
     
  35. Stop starting more threads about the same thing.. go post this crap in the one you already started about QUITING!
     
  36. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Seasoned Veteran
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    This is likely gonna sound a bit rude, but I think you need to get over what is really just a small change that you're sort of blowing out of proportion (I read your other threads staying that you were thinking of quiting UO over this). :/

    To lay it down straight, you're not the only one effected by the template change... This is not the first time the devs have nerfed a template that was a bit over powered or unreasonable... Being able to take advantage of the best ability of necro (imo) with 20-30 something skill points and not even wearing the equipment was obviously not the original intention of the devs, nor should it have been (nothing wrong with doing it while wearing the equipment, but to be able to take it off and still keep the form is a bit much).

    I should also toss out there that I don't know too many tamers who add/remove their tamer jewels if they use them. Usually we just run with them always on... which is the intention of the jewels; to give you a boost in the skill and allow you to perform actions at that skill level while wearing the jewels.

    And to answer what you might wonder, I have a sampire, I use him regularly, and I also have a tamer. Yes, it's too bad that the sampire is nerfed, I'll adjust my template and move on... not the end of the world. I also don't think UO was ever designed to be able to rely on a single character template for everything you do. It's all about variety, and using different skills to accomplish goals. Sammys are by no means out of the picture, even if they have to lose the vamp form (which they don't necessarily), they just can't be used for everything you do. :)

    Quite frankly, I'm surprised your so shocked that it's being changed. When I made my sampire, I knew he was only going to last for a while before they realized it didn't make sense you could keep vamp form that way. I've enjoyed it, now I recognize I'll need to modify my template/suit to keep him, or move away from the vamp portion. Some new great combo is always just around the corner anyway, no worries. :)
     
  37. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Who cares about a pet underneath a rider if the rider cannot control it? I think there are more inportant issues in the game than a gumming dog thats hard of hearing and never listens to its owner.

    Edit: not to get off topic or aything...but I love how everyone ALWAYS says *well what about this* in defense of their own personal nerfs. I get the impression of a tattle tail everytime I read this type of statement.
     
  38. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    NOOOOO!!!
    That would take tamers out of factions and as previously mentioned there are creatures in game that can disco you.
     
  39. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    There would be exceptions for instances like these, where it is out of the player's control.
     
  40. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I've heard of "un-bonding" ... dunno
     
  41. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I care :D

    Several people are using this tactic of bonding high end pets, then removing their taming and lore skills.

    They simply have a tamer friend or another account with a tamer friended to the pet. The tamer tells the pet to guard it's owner, pet obeys. Then anytime they are dismounted, etc. The pet auto attacks for the owner. Plus they are getting a hard to kill mount that they can usually remount once the dismount timer has expired.

    While they may not have control like a real tamer, they are essentially riding around on a tank with 0 skill points invested.
     
  42. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    What about the people who wear a ring, brace or both and it gets looted when they die?
    @Colter The only commands you can give to a friended pet are follow, stop and stay or in the case of packies also open pack.
     
  43. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Hear! Hear!

    Cu's & Dreads are an absolute joke as far as pvp is concerned.

    1) They are only effective because the rider is able to abuse the hell out of items

    2) They are invincible because the rider is able to abuse the hell out of pet balls & logout

    3) There is absolutely nothing legit about them in pvp yet they are not addressed? Are you fricking kidding me?
     
  44. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Some of us factioned with our tamers long before bonded pets and twinky jewellery and got along just fine :) A faction tamer doesn't need jewellery or protection from a pet unbonding, they just need a decent amount of real taming skill and pets they can control while in stat loss.

    Wenchy
     
  45. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Tough luck, don't rely on skill jewelry in that case :/ Really think that's the way it should be considering so many people take an advanced char token, slap on jewelry and in a week have every pet available and bonded.
     
  46. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    After examining the change and what has occurred, since I never played the template and didn't pay attention to be honest, i put together a suit of my own. IN all honesty, I have to say that it is REALLY still simple to have the necessary necro of 99 and all the other skills you would need.

    Reason being is this: most people see a set of "good" gear and then they believe that, that is what they HAVE to have or their setup won't work. This in itself...is a completely incorrect assumption.

    My advice is to think outside the box.

    example A. mace n shield glasses, jackals, heart of lion or RBC, legs of bane or the fey, etc. and so on...it doesn't matter.

    For me in just messing around last night:

    Brace with 11 HCI/15 DCI and 16 energy resist
    Ring with 11 necro/6 chivalry 8 HCI and fc1

    In closing, no problem. I just threw on a bunch of other stuff and got 41 HCI and 45 DCI ...includes weapon.

    So really after looking at everything, I have to agree with the tamer community...not that I ever disagreed. But, its only fair to have the real skill on your body...whether through jewels or regular skill level required. Tamers after all always have to have the real skill after jewelry is considered in order to say control a cu dog = 101.1 taming.

    I never considered it an exploit myself, but after I see how easy I could just throw some stuff together and not have any trouble what so ever...even considering it was my first time just messing around with this template, I don't see what all the hoopla is over.
     
  47. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Seasoned Veteran
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    What about at death? Player dies, gets rezzed... his jewels are off? He looses his pet then?

    Loosing a pet does not equal loosing vamp form. It's silly to try to equate the two. Vamp form you can take advantage of in a matter of seconds. A pet you have to go through the hastle of taming the thing (no small feat for some pets), then you have to feed it, stable it, wait a week, feed it, and then you can use it.

    I agree with not being able to give commands while too low on skill... but losing the pet is just not right. Fix the issue, don't kill the skill. ;)