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So now my server is overflowing with sots what now?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kiljaedon, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. Kiljaedon

    Kiljaedon Guest

    It seems my server has 30-40 day long exploiters that are starting to fill the vendors with more sots then you can shake a stick at. Why not just give everyone 200 of each SOT scroll and call it a day. That is practically what EA is doing letting this **** happen. Plus people are trashing the banks with the non SOT puzzle crap now.
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Use them or just ignore them. It really is that simple.
     
  3. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Xfer to a shard that's not flooded and sell 'em.
     
  4. Warsong of LS

    Warsong of LS Seasoned Veteran
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    if it is that flooded then prices should be falling, buy what you need/want and save yourself the headache of some of the harder to raise skills.
     
  5. Tamburlaine

    Tamburlaine Guest

    Honestly since these bugs don't get fixed right away the best thing we can do is explain them to all as soon as they are discoved so that it's not a minority that take advantage of the situation. This will 1. Hopefully cause the devs to react faster with more players using the exploits and 2. eliminate any potential profit exploiters gain from selling these items at a high price before it is realized that the item is in plentiful supply.
     
  6. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    ... the only reason you would care is that you wish to sell them at a higher amount than you can if the market is flooded.

    Otherwise, like me, you shouldn't care one bit.

    Hmm... how about that.

    :party:
     
  7. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    earlier today there was someone laying books all around luna on great lakes that explained all the puzzle exploits, its pretty much common knowledge now and yet nothing is done to stop it. *sigh*
     
  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Eh if we have our skills finished then we don't have to grind, and with imbuing, we can get exactly what we want after some short grinds at select places.

    I don't know, I've played over 10 years, I understand the comments about how skill used to be hard, especially taming, and I understand how certain skills are fairly powerful and being able to "power game" them is sort of insane, but on the other hand, who really wants to poison 10,000 daggers or spend a few weeks casting Word of Death on yourself?

    By the way, what was with the undocumented 83 minimum change to WOD? Anyone ever comment on that? Just a nerf to SWers I guess?
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Do I recall wrong reading a post, recently, about players exploiting the new puzzles who were going to be banned ?

    Has anyone been banned or it was just a rumor ??
     
  10. Lord Gabriel

    Lord Gabriel Guest

    I am not saying that what they are doing is right, but what exactly would they get banned for? Yes they found a way around the system so to speak but there is nothing going on that isn't the use of in game mechanics. Agreed they are not using these things as they were intended but in saying that they are not hacking the game, exloiting yes because they are using a bug i suppose. As someone mentioned before the very easy fix for this problam right not would be to mark these puzzle boards as "cursed". Problem solved.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Making an item "cursed" all it does is making that item stealable (not on Trammel, though), not sendable to bank box (not entirely sure about this, though) and not insurable.
    An item, mind you...... not a locked down thing like the puzzle is. Players cannot hold in one's own backpack the whole puzzle thing, they can only pop up the gump to interact with it.

    It has nothing to do with the limitation to use the puzzle 1 time per day per character.
     
  12. Kafka72

    Kafka72 Journeyman
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    lol, still haven't figured it out yet have ya popps!
     
  13. Lord Gabriel

    Lord Gabriel Guest

    seems not, cursing the item would solve the problem as easily as anything you suggested popps.
     
  14. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
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    At this point in the game nearly everybody knows about it and is participating in it. They will fix it eventually and no, at this point I do not hope they ban anybody for it. You should buy or trade for what you need, finish your skill, then get out there and start playing UO.
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    NO I am NOT participating in it... though I could NAME at least 20 who are. I've seen them...

    I participate my own way... I do it once per character AS INTENDED. The fact that I have over 50 characters that can do it is to MY advantage... what's sad is if I did do it... that's well over 900 times a day I could do the puzzle box...

    Aren't you glad I don't?
     
  16. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Are you sure about that?

    I know nothing of it except what is in this thread, i.e., there is an exploit involving dieing with the puzzle in your possession.

    I am not sure why bans should be predicated on how widespread the use of the exploit has been.
     
  17. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Fix the exploit and whack a few of the worst exploiters with the ban hammer. It does matter. Crap like this ruins the game for honest players.
     
  18. Tamburlaine

    Tamburlaine Guest

    This is the thing I don't understand. How are you sure that you have seen them? As far as I know it doesn't announce when someone pulls a puzzle and the noise it makes when one is completed can't be attributed to anyone person unless their is only one other person in the puzzle room. Besides, it's not like you need to complete the puzzle in the room to receive the reward.
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Wow, 900 times ? I wonder if puzzles can be also scripted on top of that.........
     
  20. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    A few people are still in the dark about it, wittingly or not.
     
  21. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
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    Ya, I see where you're coming from, and I am not accusing anybody specifically of doing this. But yes, I have seen it run rampant in both the pvp and trammie guilds on my shard at least.

    I do think the devs should have addressed this issue a long time ago. But the fact is they did not. They let it go until its to the point that it is now wide spread... and anybody who wants to know how to do it can find out pretty easily just by asking around.

    Last time this happened, the devs admitted that it was unintended, and told people that they would be addressing it, but to enjoy it while it lasted. So the precedent has already been set, and at this point I think that the most fair course of action would be to do the same thing they did last time.

    When it comes down to it, all this is really doing is helping people train skills. There are numberless "tricks" to gain skill... all of which are technically exploits. Gollems were not designed to be trained on... LRC suites were not designed to let players cast the same spell over and over standing in their house until they have GMd Magery, Necro, Spellweaving, or Mysticism. Horses and Tram were not made to be able to continuously use death strike on in order to gain Bushido. None of these are bannable, and they are all generally accepted methods of legitimately training a skill even though they were never designed this way.

    What I am trying to say is that a sandbox game attracts people who want to try different ways to accomplish their goals, and a sandbox game gives multiple ways to its players. When you couple that with the fact that the devs knew about this mechanic, they did nothing about it, and they never actually condemned it... then no, I don not think people should be banned for this. I do think it should be fixed. But no, people should not be banned form the game for this. Again, the last time this happened (The method was the same, the action by the devs was the same, and the extended time of silence from the devs was the same) We were told that its ok... they would fix it, but we could enjoy it while it lasted. And that particular incedent could be repeated as many times as you wanted... there was no limit whatsoever. It also introduced an item into the game that was NEVER intended to be there. This one only introduces items that ARE meant to be in the game, and it can only be done a limited number of times each day.

    When Doom was bugged and was dropping artis left and right, did they ban people for exploiting that? Nope. This is the exact same thing. People are using things as they were intended to get more then was intended. Thats it.

    Again, I do think that this should be fixed... but as things stand now, the pattern has already been set, and I think the responsible thing to do would be to say "Yep, we screwed up, and we will fix it as soon as we can. Have fun while it lasts." This is how a business should treat its customers. It should not punish its customers because it failed to do its part.

    Anyway, thats my point of view. And for the record I am still only doing this puzzle once per char. I dont mind that the market will be flooded. I think its great that I will be able to buy the scrolls I need, and trade the ones I dont to others who do need them. I also think that its great that this will not last forever, just kind of a nice little limited time bonus to training... Just like the blackrock events.
     
  22. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Go figure am in the dark on it and I don't like not knowing something. Almost makes me want to go experimenting just to figure it out.
     
  23. kokopelli

    kokopelli Guest

    I honesty hope they pink flood will NOT stop - soon no one gonna buy anything anymore and you can get any skill points you need for cheap in every 2nd vendor... so far I like it very much!
     
  24. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I'm perfectly fine with being in the dark on this one. Never have been crazy about the SoT's.....wish they'd just fix the skill gain algorithms so the darn things aren't needed. And I definitely don't need any more deco stuff.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I think I recall years back a Developer saying that rule #1 should be asking, when adding new content, "Will the players be able to exploit this and how?" .....

    I think it would be very wise, BEFORE adding any new content to any game, that developers explored all ways something could be exploited by players.

    It would be much better for the better sake of the game, IMHO.

    As in regards to banning players, well, the line has to be drawn at some point. Not drawing it might only get players, perhaps, to think that they can try something not allowed because before, players were let go.

    If those exploiting the puzzles where to be let go, why then, for example, ban an unattended macroer?

    I mean, doing something against the rules is something against the rules and, to my opinion, exploiting the puzzles to gain skill points fast and easy is no less than macroing unattended to gain the same skills.

    Puzzle exploiters should not be banned ? Then also unattended macroers macroing their skills should be let go. Letting some do it but others not when in the end they all do it for skill gains would be totally unfair, IMHO.
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    How am I sure.. well you know I can run my character thru the puzzle in about 5 min... that's going in walking thru the hall, getting the puzzle solving it and getting out.... these people exploiting are standing there for 30 to 40 min.... even "if" they had just "logged" in there... the character WOULD despawn in 5 min.... therefore...... they are exploiting.... NOT to mention if you REALLY wanted to be "certain" they are exploiting... follow them out and see what bank they go to ..... then listen to them stand there and do the puzzle 30+ times. I know a few that stand openly at the Skara Brae bank and do it. That's how.
     
  27. Tamburlaine

    Tamburlaine Guest

    The problem here though is that this is not something that is an obvious exploit. In fact it is so simple that a brand new player could accidentally stumble upon it and never realize that it was unintended design.

    In my opinion it would be rather poor to ban anyone because the developers did not see that this could happen before implementation. Especially since they could easily prevent its exploitation in the short term by closing down the puzzle as the Japanese shards have done.

    In the end it does little but devalue the reward items it produces, which would eventually happen over time anyway. The vast amount of SoTs it has produced really isn't of concern. How do their use affect your gameplay?
     
  28. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    When you see a person at the bank suddenly have a stack of pillows standing next to him, appearing in tandem with the noise of the puzzle completion, yeah, you've got a pretty decent clue.

    When you're in Luna and you hear the puzzle completion going off over and over and over and over again, there's a clue too.

    It IS happening.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Puzzles can be done while being at the bank and not in the Abyss place ??

    Now, that is some news to me.........
     
  30. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Well, in defense of the people who stand there for 30-40 plus minutes, not everyone gets their puzzle and goes over to UOGuide to get the solution. Some people actually like trying to solve the puzzle themselves... you know, how it was intended to be.

    Secondly, why are you sitting there for 30-40 mins waiting for some guy to finish their puzzle in the first place? And why would you bother following them all the way out to the bank...

    Personally, I think the skill system needs reviewed completely. Some skills are just rediculous to get up, and others you can do in a few hours.

    Also, I don't forsee any bans because;
    A. This was a major oversite on the devs part. Come on, it was so simple to figure out even if you never did the puzzle. I figured out what people were doing just by the sudden sale of dust and bags of sending.

    B. It was wide spread, and although it was not intended no dev also came out and warned of its use. So unless there was another means beside the one that I figured out to exploit, I never saw any post by devs as a warning.

    C. If they banned even half the people that abused the system, they would lose a lot of players. lol I would rather have the cheaters continue paying for the game so I can continue playing.


    On a side note, instead of going after people that abused this system, they should go after real exploiters... you know, the scripters and the people using illegal programs.:twak:
     
  31. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Would be nice if we could get GMs to stealth through Luna and Tokuno and Ter Mur, and the placed runes at the bank, find the obvious cheaters: 100+ 3.0 SoT scrolls, and ban them.
     
  32. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Eh, its just as much the devs fault. It was a stupid simple programming mistake. Something people should have learned in Programming 101. Or in high school.

    Banning won't help anyway. Thats all UO needs is less people. As much as I hate cheaters (Speed Hacks anyone?) They are paying customers and their money does help what little updates we do get.

    If you start banning them, you start losing money.

    On top of that who's to say the vendor owner is the one who used the "exploit." Someone from their guild or a friend could have done it, and asked the person to sell them for him.

    I veto any notion to start banning at random.
     
  33. DarkVoid

    DarkVoid Guest

    Doing something that's not necessarily illegal doesn't mean you can't get banned for it. This is a bug, it is not intended, and the devs could ban anyone and everyone found to be exploiting it.

    Fact: It has increased the amount of certain types of items available way beyond what was ever originally intended.

    Fact: It is common knowledge how this is done.

    Fact: Exploits ruin the game for all players, and this one is no less of an exploit than any other. This is WHY they're listed in the TOS as something you should NOT be doing! And if you are found to be using or abusing an exploit, that puts your account at risk of having a ban or mark placed against it.

    I would therefore have to say that this exploit may at any time in the future be considered illegal and/or bannable, and that people will regret their choice of action later.

    Of course, the Devs could just wipe the SOT's generated by this exploit, and wipe out all of the ill-gotten gains, without banning anyone, but only if they thought it was in the best interests of the game.

    I like to be an honest player of Ultima Online whenever I play. And I do try to keep my characters bound by lawful and sensible rules. Just because a few people found that they could do something that is not intended does not mean they should be allowed to get off scot-free with their ill-gotten gains.

    I hope all who used/abused this exploit get punished appropriately. I don't care for exploits that break the intended rules of the game.

    Cheers ...

    DarkVoid
     
  34. CassieDarksong

    CassieDarksong Babbling Loonie
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    I am so out of the loop on SA and the puzzle room (haven't even made it past the Gargoyle city as I just got the expansion). But from what I understand, the puzzle room is now closed on Origin and other shards as well.
     
  35. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes, the puzzle room was closed sometime this past weekend.
     
  36. shulginist

    shulginist Guest


    Yep you could do them at the bank or your house or wherever you wanted to.
     
  37. maroite

    maroite Guest


    Two problems with your deduction.

    A. If the offense was serious, then Draconi or someone could have made a post about it on the herald, but they didn't.

    B. The game allowed it to happen, no cheat or hack was used, it was just a loop hole in the programming, and who's to say it wasn't intended. If anything the biggest problem with this was UOGuide posting the solutions, or at least thats one way to look at it.

    Think about it. If UOguide hadn't posted the solutions, but you could use the loop hole to get multiple puzzle pieces, they still have timers. If you got stuck on a puzzle, then you would lose out on others and the amount of rewards would be drastically reduced.


    The devs knew about it 3 weeks ago, and failed to make any warning. Had they given warning, they would be entitled to bans, or other action, but seeing as they didn't it probably wouldn't go over too well to just blanket ban.

    Also, figuring out who abused the loop hole would be time consuming, and troublesome. For example, you could blanket ban the owners of vendors with large amounts of SoT's but what if said vendor is a guild vendor, and the owner of the vendor actually didn't abuse the loophole? Then you blindly ban an innocent and avoid catching the people who actually did abuse it.

    Bans are bad, regardless. More or less this is a lesson learned, and hopefully it will be well learned.
     
  38. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
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    QFT
     
  39. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Well... in this case. I wouldn't mind seeing warnings and then bans for the use of illegal third party programs.