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So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters useless)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bombastic Fail, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Bombastic Fail

    Bombastic Fail Certifiable
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    Some examples:

    Mana Regen - Top End Ingrediant - Seed Of Renewal
    Mage Armor - Top End Ingrediant - Abyssal Cloth
    LMC - Top End Ingrediant - Essence Of Order
    LRC - Top End Ingrediant - Faery Dust
    All Skills - Top End Ingrediant - Crystalline Blackrock
    Faster Casting - Top End Ingrediant - Essence Of Achievement
    Hit Chance - Top End Ingrediant - Essence Of Precision
    Damage Inc - Top End Ingrediant - Crystal Shards
    FCR - Top End Ingrediant - Essence Of Diligence
    EP - Top End Ingrediant - Crushed Glass
    DCI - Top End Ingrediant - Essence Of Singularity


    So, all the crafters professions (who could fish for pearl, or mine for gems, or LJ for amber) are useless and need turned into Warriors/Mages/Tamers to get these things from monsters? Unless I am missing something, this was an extremely bad move and is gonna set ALOT of crafter's off.

    :thumbdown::thumbdown: Two thumbs down on this move.
     
  2. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Those items are all still extremely useful in crafting recipe jewelry that can then be imbued.
     
  3. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    IMBUING WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?!?!?!

    My crafters and mules finally had a reason to dust of their axes and shovels. I put in countless hours chopping and mining (and getting griefed by players who think they own all the caves in Malas, not to mention all the frenzied ostards and lizardmen who developed a taste for my lumberjacker)... and for what? Are you going to tell me next that the low end hammers I collected by painstakingly filling and turning in bods are useless again too?

    What happened to giving crafters love and not making everything reliant on warriors? I understand that everything in the Beta was subject to change, but come on. You finally gave crafters and mules some love by bringing them back into the equation when it comes to crafting high end (and desired) armor and jewels. Now the balance has shifted back to pvmers... While I'm not a full time crafter and will probably be able to obtain the new ingredients needed, I truly feel bad for those out there that don't have a warrior. They get the short end of the stick again.
     
  4. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    You know the more I think about this the worse it gets. What happened to imbuing leveling the playing field for new players and the non rich? These ingredients are going to be exactly like the peerless ingredients, expensive and hard to get for the casual player. So much for there being another option besides runic made armor...
     
  5. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I wouldn't bet on it.

    (also remember ... these only apply to the top 10% of a property ... you can still make a 5x90% item and that's nothing to sneeze at)

    (trivia: my new gargoyle mystic-imbuer, alone in the world with no resources but what he's scraped together in hit and run fighting has by himself already imbued himself a 111% LRC suit)
     
  6. Mijac_Chmon

    Mijac_Chmon Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I agree.

    The way I would have done it is to make Imbuing an addition to crafting skills. You would need your crafting skills to Imbue items etc.

    That way, everyone is involved. The warriors etc could fight to get some ingredients, the fishermen could throw a line, the ljacks could whip out the axe etc...

    ...but in the end it would all come back to needing crafters.

    It's sad that this opportunity has been sold short.
     
  7. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Mmm, no, not really. We specifically made sure these ingredients were easily available enough without completely flooding the market. It's definitely not something like having to kill a Peerless to get the highest level ingredient.

    Additionally, many of the high-end versions will be added to crafting as well.
     
  8. The Fallout

    The Fallout Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Thanks, as always, Draconi for silencing the cries.
     
  9. Torin Galka

    Torin Galka Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Not sure how you can say easy and not flood the market at the same time. Either they are easy to obtain and non-fighting crafters will have "easy" access to them or there will be a tight market for these where crafters will have to pay bloated Luna prices.
     
  10. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Draconi, just admit it and quit being a jerk about it. You sold out the crafters. Plain and simple. Everything in this game has to be about fighting or you guys just aren't happy. If I knew I had a chance, I'd dispute the charge on my card today and cancel. You add some great content and then ruin it by following the same old tired routine.
     
  11. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Yeah, it's a bit of a balancing act.

    They range in difficulty to obtain - for instance, some are simple drops right in the middle of Ter Mur off the basic mobs.

    A whole slew can be found in the Cavern of the Discarded.

    And the high-end "Essences of Virtue" (the Gargish ones like Singularity, Precision, etc) required for the most top-end Imbuing item properties are actually available from any level of spawn in each mini-champ area of the Abyss.

    For a quick review, mini-champs are just a layered spawning system, and there are 11 spread throughout the Abyss dungeon.

    So, while sure, someone might actually try to "corner" the market on things, they'll quickly find themselves competing with average players being able to undercut their efforts fairly effectively.

    This, in addition to adding these ingredients to the various crafting skills, makes it quite a distinct picture from ML and the entire idea of Peerless ingredients. We absolutely refused on the design side to force players to do the most insane high-end content in order to get their precious ingredients. Instead, we'd like to explore many options, and find good, balanced middle ground. This is the start, admittedly, the next is to allow crafters a more direct role in the production of their ingredients (without handing them over on a silver platter) :)
     
  12. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I thought imbuing was going to be a great boost for resource gatherers which are basically the crafters of the world. What was the thought process behind changing it?
     
  13. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Not sure I understand this sentence. High end versions of what?
     
  14. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Quoted for Truth.

    While I'm extremely impressed by the scope and imagination and innovation in this new expansion, I'm extremely disappointed in the changes to imbuing.
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    NOW Hold up here a moment........ so are you telling me that the "high end" items that I need are in the "CHAMP SPAWN" areas????? As in the FEL PvP area????? Tell me your NOT saying that!?
     
  16. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    The high-end, optional ingredients mentioned in the first post. We didn't change anything about the core requirements (Magical Residue, Enchanted Essences, Relic Fragments and the Jewels and Rare Ingredients from ML). Those first two types of ingredients will still offer you the full range of Imbuing options.

    The third, optional, group, is the one that gives you better successes at higher levels. We'd like to give crafters ways of directly obtaining those through crafting :)
     
  17. Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    why? these ingredients aren't hard to acquire.
     
  18. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Okay, I'm not saying that :)

    The mini-champs are just specially layered spawn areas in the normal, Trammel ruleset, Abyss dungeon.

    They start out with very easy mobs, and work their way upwards to a single mini-boss, and then reset. Full details: here
     
  19. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    So what you're saying, if I understand correctly (sorry for being slow, just bear with me ;) ), is that those mob-drop ingredients will have gatherer-obtainable equivalents in the near future?
     
  20. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Yessir, very near future
     
  21. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Those enchanted essences ARE a change to the core requirement. They weren't a part of the Beta at all. I understand that they won't be needed until you want max intensity, but its still putting crafting in the hands of warriors.
     
  22. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I think you need a nap. Now... your post actually doesn't make sence "If I knew I had a chance, I'd dispute the charge on my card today and cancel." So you want to have no chance? Is that what you're whining about? And if it was a typo, and you have no chance. Then go ahead and dispute the charge. The way imbuling seems to be now, it doesn't seem the catcha ll uber skill it was at the beggining of the open beta where you didn't need a runic to make an amazing suit. I know. I did it. Took a long as time and **** loads of ingrediants. but I did it, besides, the majority is only gonna use 90% or less, meaning they'd never even NEED the resources in the first place! So stop making this sound like this is destroying anything that imbuling was. It's weaker, so what if the ings are easier or different. YOu probably want use them. Who cares if you have 15dci over 13dci, or 50 over 45. Do you get the hint? It doesn't really matter.
     
  23. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    [
    You need to be a bit more specific in this. Are you saying that you plan to give ways for us crafters to craft the new special ingrediants without fighting?
     
  24. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    He isn't. Didn't you read what you quoted?
     
  25. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Correct
     
  26. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    He is basically saying that if he thought he could get his money back, he'd dispute the charges and ask for a refund for SA.
     
  27. sablestorm

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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    So is this in the works or is this in-game already where crafters can provide these materials?
     
  28. Deathy56

    Deathy56 Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Dear Draconi,

    Thank you (and the other devs) for putting so much thought into making people happy. You'll always get people who complain no matter what you do, but I think most of us appreciate that you folks are not just dedicated to one group (crafters, tamers, dexxers, ect...). I think that SA gives every group new things to strive for and that is a hard group of balls to juggle.

    Congrats and keep it coming!
     
  29. altarego

    altarego Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Good lord people, why don't you just play with the new changes and see for yourself before you start stomping your feet?
     
  30. Bombastic Fail

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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I hope by saying this, you are gonna let all the resources (Gems, Pearls, Brilliant Amber, etc...) be turned into the things that are "now" needingly required.


    Like White Pearls into say Essence Of Singularity... Etc.
     
  31. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Draconi you're talking out of 3 sides of your mouth at once.

    Spit out the plan plain and simple. The only thing we see at the moment is some of the ingredients are not CURRENTLY obtainable by the average crafter. Before beta ended you spoke of making things available through a variety of means. Instead we got this. You were asked repeatedly if you meant some things one way and some things another or if you meant each thing would have multiple sources.

    screw it...I'm too pissed at the moment to even continue this conversation.

    :twak:
     
  32. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Thank you sablestorm, that was my intent.

    I really loved the roleplay of a crafter up through UOR. I had hoped this expansion was oging to breathe a little life into it. It had alot going for it. But, as I stated above, Draconi sold us out. Crafters do not have a strong voice on the Dev team. There's no one that will put their foot down for us. We always have to settle for whatever we are thrown. Only group I can think of that gets it worse are the bards.
     
  33. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    For a certainty, I think Draconi and this Dev Team has done a great job overall. There have been events, new systems, and making old systems more relevant. Having said that, I can feel the pain of the crafters out there who were really excited for imbuing only to find they were cut out of it. It sounds like Draconi has a plan for crafters, but in the short term it has to be a disappointing surprise for them.
     
  34. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    In the works my friend.

    The following third tier ingredients were replaced in various properties by the newer ones:
    * Blue Diamond
    * Brilliant Amber
    * Dark Sapphire
    * Ecru Citrine
    * Fire Ruby
    * Luminescent Fungi
    * Parasitic Plant
    * Perfect Emerald
    * Turquoise
    * White Pearl

    However, every item from the above list is still used in the third tier (except for Blue Diamonds). The previous version used the same rare ingredients across the board for all sorts of different, unrelated properties. The new version has a much more expanded list of additional, new ingredients.
     
  35. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Have you tried?

    edit: ok, a crafter with *no* combat skills will run into a problem completing the quest to get into the abyss ... but the difficulty threshold on the ingredients I've seen is about on par with getting hides.
     
  36. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    No I haven't tried. I don't intend to try it tonight. I don't have time to run all over creation tonight looking for it. And I'm not in the mood for any flippant remarks, even from a moderator.

    The point I made, and you ignored, was that we still have to slay things for ingredients. My crafter will not be equipped to wade amongst an evolving spawn to get a handful of batnuts or whatever they come up with. It didn't have to be this way. A conscious choice was made to change it to this. And Draconi won't man up and admit he was behind it.
     
  37. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that's what you wanted me to admit. Yes, I was behind this!

    I believe it's critical to the balance of Imbuing to spread the ingredients out, and not have all the top tier, high-class item properties be at the mercy of a small group of easily exploited items, that, through demonstration over the years, have appeared in far more number than should ever be possible to create in the game, and, at this point, are a resource we cannot balance in a new system.

    To avoid hurting the little guy, we've stuck with the jewel and rare ingredients for the middle tiers, and we're going to make the top tier ones also available through various resource gathering and crafting methods.

    Admittedly, it's 11:00 PM on the day of launch, so you know I'm all eager to go and defend our work! I'll have more details about this and what the plans are moving forward :)
     
  38. Tina Small

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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I hope that people will go out and actually kill stuff in the Underworld, the Abyss and overland Ter Mur before crying too much about this.

    If you have any kind of character that can kill stuff, you should end up rolling in ingredients within a short time. A couple of the beta testers spent a fair amount of time trying to come up with a list of the ingredients needed for imbuing the highest intensities of properties and a list of the sources for said ingredients. We didn't find a source for everything by the close of the beta because some of the stuff just wasn't there to find.

    For example, chaga mushrooms. Couldn't find them anywhere.

    Yet today as I came out of the Abyss and started walking down the corridor to the Tomb of Kings, I must have picked up 15 of them within less than a minute. There was NO spawn around me. I proceeded to the next big room and killed some undead guardians and silver serpents. That gave me some silver serpent skins and undead flesh. Wandered off to the side to check out what had happened to Nipporailem the Thief and walked out with more undead flesh. (By the way, Draconi, it's just EVIL What you guys did to that dude!! I love it. My GD died 3-4 times trying to kill him because my tamer doesn't have enough mana regen to handle the stand back and heal by spells routine. )

    Also killed a fairy dragon as we ran by the Stygian Dragon's building and got resources and peerless keys from it too.

    If I had truly wanted to, I could have literally overloaded my character with imbuing ingredients in a 15-20 minute stroll through the Underworld, the Abyss, the Tomb of Kings.

    You don't have to take a tamer with a GD in these places. I got in the habit of doing it because I made so darn many screen shots during the beta I almost melted my laptop. I am actually looking forward to going back through all these places now with some of my dexxers and archers that aren't fully trained and having a blast collecting ingredients and finishing their training. Yes, a lot of stuff does fire damage and there are some creatures that use necro spells. I haven't yet figured out which creatures use mysticism spells.

    Honestly, though, other than the creatures at the top level of the mini-champs, an unfinished fighting character will do just fine wandering around collecting imbuing ingredients, gold, and stuff to imbue or unravel.

    If you do run into the top level spawn at the mini champs, I noticed that there were only TWO monsters out at a time like that. The areas they spawn in are also big enough to easily be able to stand off to the side and nibble away at the spawn and avoid attracting the harder stuff your way. And the harder stuff, in many cases, isn't necessarily a lot meaner and nastier. It may just be slightly more advanced in skills and stats and have a ton more hit points.

    Please, folks, before you give up on imbuing, give the hunting a try. I don't have lots of uber warriors that I play with. Nope, mine are pretty average and I'm a bit of a ditz when it comes to knowing how to play them. I've never aspired to solo a peerless. The very thought makes me want to giggle hysterically. Yet even I know that my warriors (and tamers) can take on a lot of this stuff and that I will have a heck of a good time in the process and load up on ALL of the imbuing ingredients.

    Sorry this is long-winded and if it comes across as preachy. I just hate the thought of folks getting to this point and feeling so let down. I think you may be making some decisions a little too quickly and without enough actual in-game experience to go on.
     
  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    *chuckles* Some times I envy you Drac... Then I realize the world is on your shoulders. I wash the dishes. Maybe you envy me some times...
     
  40. Hanokh1967

    Hanokh1967 Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I agree. Imbuing alone got me to resubscribe. Now I am disappointed that I wasted the $43.
     
  41. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Sorry, but it's for your own good (and I'm not a mod in U.Hall). You need to get "peerless boss" out of your head and get back to thinking "tailor needs hides".

    I've never been a fan of peerless ingredients (I've never even done a peerless), so when I say that I can handle this new system - and enjoy it - I think it would be wise of you to pause, wipe the foam from your mouth, and at least actually get to know it before you start screaming for heads.

    (now personally, I could have used a few pure-crafter minigames, but that seems to be a little more tricky to come up with in a way that can't be easily scripted)
     
  42. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    i am just gonna wait and see how it works out but I will promise you this if i have to pvp or do peerless to get ingredients you can stuff imbu and maybe the game !! but I am all for trying it all out and judging later !
    and just to add i am having fun exploring and such !very nice to have new things to look at and new loot to see great job overall so far!
     
  43. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I am liking this.
     
  44. Torin Galka

    Torin Galka Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I want to thank you for clearing this up. I feel much better about this system now.

    I am excited at the prospect of having crafters become a more important part of the community again.
     
  45. Hanokh1967

    Hanokh1967 Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    Tailors can get hides without getting one-shotted by fire demons with 130 breath damage. Tailors can get hides without the slayer thing in the middle of the Abyss crashing the 2D client whenever you go near him making it impossible to get your corpse back. Tailors can get hides ...
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    FOUR THUMBS DOWN.
     
  47. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    I have to emphatically differ in that they have done a lot to rejuvenate the crafting elements of the game.

    Further, I can tell you all that as a beta tester, a lot of the changes weren't only based on our feedback. Rather, a lot of the changes came from folks right here on these boards who weren't in beta. Example, pet dyes. The final decision came about not because of feedback of closed beta testers but, the overwhelming response and feedback that came about here.

    Draconi, or any of the developers for that matter, does not operate in a vacuum. They (meaning the development team) have relied on tons of feedback and they meet quite regularly to go over all that feedback to come up with workable solutions that seem reasonable for a new expansion. We just got a hold of the newest phase of the game. Reason would suggest that over time, and with constructive feedback... things will get tweaked to a much better state. Just give it some time. Constructive feedback is our friend. Name calling and such aren't.

    In my opinion, we're lucky we got all this new adventures to look forward to. The one area that I am sure will need boosting and I wholeheartedly support this, is that Bards need more love. Seems as though they have "missed the boat" on our Bard friends.

    I can't understand the, "I want things now attitude" or the, "Give me, give me, give me mentality" with most people. What ever happened to the virtue of perserverence and working to get what you need? But that's just my own personal opinion and it's not meant to target any one person's opinion. Please don't turn this into a flame fest. Thank you.
     
  48. Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    lets see we want interactive community so the warrior must help craftsman who makes a weapon for the warrior its the circle we seek no ???
     
  49. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    The new ingredient system is better than the "here scripters, we made a new skill just for you" one.

    Go out and play the game or wait 2 weeks for the n00b that started today to sell you the ingredients your crafter can't go out and get on their own.
     
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Re: So who's idea was it to change Imbuing's top end ingrediant?(Making crafters usel

    How can people be pissed about the change, when they said before SA went live that they were going to do it. I looked up a lot of these monsters and it looks like a GM Dexer could get the stuff and it is only for the +90% so you make a ring with 4x13 skills at 90%. That is still a very nice mod that I have never seen drop as loot.