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So why no powerscrolls in Tram ruleset spawns?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ender, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?
     
  2. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    The people saying the spawns are all about the PvP are deluding themselves, if they were not then they wouldn't be the ones selling Power Scrolls for absurd amounts of gold, especially with the introduction of the Faction Items. They keep saying how suits are cheaper and easier to build so why do they still need so much gold?
     
  3. canary

    canary Guest

    I play in Tram more than Fel, but seriously Fel needs a FEW extra perks to get people there... even if champs are the only place to find fel ppl.
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Being able to enjoy the best part of the game is the only perk needed to go to Fel IMO.


    ...Or it would be if PvP wasn't ****ed.
     
  5. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


    Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.
     
  6. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Perhaps the "problem" is that there a number of people with a foot in each realm who like the Fel game, but want the items more and will gravitate to the easiest path in spite of themselves?

    (this is one of those topics that evokes strong "you're destroying my game!" reactions whenever it comes up ... personally I've just gotten so used to things the way they are, I find it hard to imagine it any other way)
     
  7. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Putting the Powerscrolls in Fel to encourage PvP has been a failure. Unfortunately they are already there and it wouldn't be fair to take them away but them being there is a complete waste right now. They should replace it with something new and move powerscrolls to both rulesets.
     
  8. canary

    canary Guest

    Pfft there was a lack of tact from a large part of the playerbase before fel. That's why we got Tram.
     
  9. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Exactly, and it's also why they have issues getting people back into Fel today. Unless EA polices the conduct of the players in Fel, or they do it themselves, I see no point in long term continuation of projects to "Repopulate" Felucca as they will be futile.
     
  10. canary

    canary Guest

    The thing is though... we DO have players that love to pvp and 'talk smack'. I think it's only fair they too have something to work towards.
     
  11. DHMagicMan_1

    DHMagicMan_1 Guest

    The reason is that Fel would be even more of a baren wasteland than it already is... the developers realized LONG AGO that there were very few who want to PvP and they aren't entertained PvPing among themselves... so they created PowerScrolls and Double Resources in an attempt to lure sheep for the PK's to ambush...

    The developers have forever refused to revisit this decision because they so committed and dug their heals in, now that the truth is so obvious, they know they are trying to sell us on a flat earth.
     
  12. HD2300

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    I say extend the sale of faction arties like fc3 crystalline rings, +20 extra resists Fey Legs and +5 extra dex crimsons to also the sale of powerscrolls on npc vendors. Say all 120s at 200,000 and all 115s at 10,000.

    Just like faction arties allow players to build suits for cheap, allowing players to get 120 in their skills for cheap will mean more people pvping in fel. PvPers are always saying fel is deserted. This will bring more people to pvp in fel.
     
  13. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    I don't see any harm at all in bringing all power scrolls to tram and keeping them in fel as well giving players a choice if they want to risk being ganked for there power scroll in fel if that is what gives them there jollies or getting a power scroll in tram and not having to worry about some jerk stealing there power scroll in tram. if you want to make items at fel champ spawns only then make it something else then power scrolls something that is not mandatory to get with time to max our skills out at least.
     
  14. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    What will bring more people to Fel is eliminating the cheating, getting rid of gimp templates, re-balancing, nerfing some mods, etc.

    And yeah, making suits easier to get will help some.
     
  15. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    As a Trammel-based player, the Trammel Champ spawns do not need the Powerscrolls. They needed and got their own reward.

    Champ spawns are fine as is in that regard IMO.
     
  16. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    ....What reward did they get? Fel spawns still have a lot more, and I don't know anybody that's managed to get a drop at Tram ruleset spawns yet <_<
     
  17. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    LOL
    :bdh:

    With that said about the scrolls lol .......

    .......Not all PvPers talk smack there is the fair share of trammies also. And really if your hurt by some words on a screen then you shouldnt be playin MMO's. You have to understand you have to deal with people of different Ages,Race,Backgrounds, Stress levels, countries exc. exc if you cant understand that then you dont understand UO.

    If you dont understand getting your enemy upset then you dont know UO pvp. If your enemy is upset he will more than likely make mistakes and mistakes cascade fast into other mistakes In UO pvp. The best way to beat that is to take everything with a grain of salt it is a game afterall. the best PvPers that I know are cool and collected its just a game to them.

    *EDIT*
    And soon with the release of Darkfall UO will loose most of their remaining PvP playerbase that hasnt gone to PRS so everything here is a moot point anyway.
     
  18. DHMagicMan_1

    DHMagicMan_1 Guest

    ...

    and the VAST MAJORITY of UO players don't want to PvP anyway... that's why the Dev's needed to drag them in against their will in the first place, anyway.
     
  19. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Anyone who says to keep the PSs and Harrys in Fel just for the PVP is talking BS. It´s about the scrolls, nothing else...

    However, I think they should remain there. As a trammel player (when I play Europa) I see this as one of the hardest challenges in the game.

    And I honestly can´t see why other trammel players are so afraid to try to do some of those spawns. Just consider the potential PVPers as a tough "boss". Nothing else.

    Doing big PvM stuff like Doom, peerless and events and such, we all risk to die. Nothing different about PVPers. All you lose is some gold and some cheap stuff.

    Is it the potential smack talk after being killed? Big deal. Just ignore it.

    Is it because you don´t like PVP? Well, just approach it as a hard monster with some different AI then used too.

    What is the worst thing that can happen when doing a champ in Fel? You die and maybe gets smack talked. So what?

    And if that doesn´t happen you get the rewards!

    Sure, there are some things that give some of the PVPers some advantages such as ghost cam-bots and other cheating programs but that´s for another thread...
     
  20. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    There is nothing more annoying then loseing your stuff to some punk jerk kid to have him laugh at your ghost its not fear. i rather lose a valuable item to a monster for good then lose any item to some pvper.
     
  21. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    The PvPers need constant ego stroking and reassurance that yesss, precious, you are important to us.

    It's really just kind of a big inconvenience to the huge majority of players who otherwise never want to go to Fel for anything. A pander to the Fel players if you will. There is still no real meaningful presence of players in Fel. But at some time or another now you have to go there for something, unless you buy gold.

    Continued denial that Fel doesn't have a useful purpose for anyone other than PvPers.
     
  22. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Just try to ignore them. Don´t let them get to you...

    Or put your killers on ignore. Eventually they will all be mute to you I guess. :)
     
  23. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    This thread is completely pointless like all of the others, as long as a Dev refuses to chime in and comment on how Risk V Reward is extinct, and that PS's in Fel only simply keeps the large Real Cash money making guilds happy. Even though they have more free accounts than accounts that they actually pay for...
     
  24. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    this is one of the most horribly ignorant threads I've ever encountered on the topic. The lack of rebuttals shows how fruitless posting would be here. I will say this, if you think pvping over nothing is fun, then you are a trash talking yewbie who probably pvps over nothing. If you think pvping for a valuable resource is fun, well then you understand why the newest games and games coming out provide tangible rewards for controlling resources by means of pvp.
     
  25. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    One guild can't make 100-150m a day (almost seriously, depending on what shard). Or it hampers the sell of irl items for cash.

    ------------------
    And you still get dbl the reward in fel.... Justice.
     
  26. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
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    I have actually met a few cool pks in Fel but unfortunately it was just a few.

    I remember when ganking first started back a year or two before Tram. That's really when the gank squads formed. On Atl they were mainly just a bunch of blues who made up for their lack of skill by using numbers to single out victims and overwhelm them. I did enjoy fighting reds when they were not such cowards. One on one or two on one was awesome!
     
  27. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Well if the Smack Talking that goes on was fine then how come so often the contents of it you hear covers things specifically mentioned in the ROC? If it's supposed to be a factor, then why is there a rule against it?

    Especially these.

    2) You may not use any offensive or sexually explicit language.

    3) You may not use any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player.


    Sorry seems Smack talking is technically a bannable offense, regardless of Facet, which is why I prefer not to do it myself.
     
  28. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Does anyone smack talk any more?

    Seriously, does anyone even type any more?

    I've seen smack talk on the boards, but in my time back in game, I've never once been called anything in the field. I'll go so far as to say that most PvPers have so much of their macros set to normal keys that typing is more annoying to the person who wants to smack talk than the "victim". They typically just kill me and go on with their business (aka finishing their spawn). Any smack talk I've even heard about happens on Vent.

    In fact, and this was the most surprising thing I've seen in the last year, I've learned that some of the other players in UO, no matter what their play style, can't even type. Their fingers fly over the keyboards to their macro keys like nobody's business, but when it comes to having a conversation, I typically have to wait for an extraordinary long time for the comment, "Come to vent." And two of the words in that are usually misspelled.
     
  29. Sephy

    Sephy Guest

    Anyone who says spawns are not about PVP is stupid

    They are, I spawn for pvp, I raid for pvp, I sometimes work spawns get the champ up and sit there waiting for someone to raid, its a place to fight where trammies cant hug guard zones and **** in houses..

    PVP is spawns, and spawns is PVP..

    If you have scrolls drop in tram, then who would there be to kill? everyone would do in tram where its safe..

    Fel is losing the battle to tram, because people dont want to get better at pvp, they would rather avoid it all.
     
  30. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Anyone who genuinely cares about PvE will still go to Tram and kill monsters anyway, so what harm is brought by removing any gold and loot from trammel?
    /sarcasm

    Sometimes it is fruitful to turn on the brain. While few hardcore players would actually play without rewards (both for pvp and pve), any playstyle needs rewards. But if you want to lose more subscribers go right ahead, it's not like you see empty spots and idocs everywhere you walk the lands...
     
  31. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Oh here we go again! *yay*

    I wish they'd open up a Tram only shard and throw all the "we want PS in Tram" posters right in. It's not enough that Fel had her dungeons wrecked to support champs. No, we need to turn the scrolls over to Tram too and then watch while Tram folks farm the snot out of those spawns and the rank of "Legendary" is so insignificant that EA may as well just add skill caps of 120 as standard. You want the items and you don't want to deal with a nasty ebil PvPer to get them. Has someone tied your bank checks down so you can't buy scrolls? Hmm?

    You want tram spawns of scrolls? Fine, let's put them on an NPC vendor that lets you upgrade your chars for a decent sum of gold. Not a scroll selling machine, you'd pick the scrolls you wanted and have them applied then and there. Then you can avoid those ebil PvPers that you don't want to contend with, and those same PvPers are free to sell the scrolls they get at cheaper prices so they can still make gold and still have something to fight over.

    Tram players farming scrolls with no risk (sorry, paragons are not scary) will drown the market in cheap scrolls and turn Fel champs into disused wrecks. So at best you can have an NPC selling the scrolls. Might even make a good gold sink. But some of us don't want Fel turned over yet again to serve the interests of the "we want!" crowd in Tram.

    Wenchy
     
  32. LadyKeroOfAtl

    LadyKeroOfAtl UO Homes & Castles News Reporter
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    I dont pvp or go do fel spawns often..
    But I dont agree that the powerscrolls should come to other facets.

    It gives a point for people to take the greater risk (However much risk is included when you can use insurance.. well except the exploits..)

    Don't want to pay for powerscrolls ? Go hunt in fel.
    Don't want to deal with the pvp guild ? Try going at 'off' hours.

    I don't like paying for powerscrolls, but I don't expect/want them to come to other facets.
     
  33. HD2300

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    Most PvPers say being able to buy Faction arties for peanuts, that you could only previously get in Doom, is great. It is only fair the same happens to PS for PvMers.

    Lets take a faction Orni as an example. Get a faction one with MR3 extra for 5000 silver. Or buy a Doom one without MR3 for 10 million gold.

    How about a faction crimson. The +5 extra dex Faction one costs 2000. The normal one costs 15 million gold.

    It is only fair that now PvMers can buy PS off vendors for peanuts. PvMers should be able to get a 120 Magery for 2000 silver. Maybe even less because a mr3 faction crimson is better than an ordinary crimson. Fair is fair.
     
  34. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    click your character and start insuring items?
     
  35. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    lol...

    that is all.
     
  36. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I never stop wondering this "PvP:rs are smacktalking teenagers". Which shard you guys play? TBH I very rarely see PvP:rs smacktalking tram players. Sometimes I see PvP:rs smacktalking each other since they'v been killing each other again, again and again. But not even that so much nowdays. But smacktalking some randoms dudes seem very very rare to me. And that teenager part, seriously I think there's VERY few teenagers playing this game anymore. They are playing wow or whatever..

    Well, maybe situation is different on your shards then, or then you just got this image from somewhere and can't let it go.
     
  37. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If you want to be a Legendary mage, I think you ought to put in a wee bit more effort to reach the pinnacle of your profession. 2k silver? Pfft. You wouldn't get past the door of the university with that level of commitment. Or lack of. There is a difference between a dumb faction arty and a scroll which enables you to hit 120. Think about it. Item fashions come and go, the faction arties will be superseded, and likely in Tram. Skills can be with a character for his entire lifetime.

    Wenchy
     
  38. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    That just makes no sense whatsoever. btw Thank you for providing an important service to the all 75,000 subscribers in UO by ensuring that the "rank of Legendary" remains significant. :hahaha:
     
  39. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well, as you seem unable to understand the difference between a skill level and an item, I didn't expect you to figure out the rest of the post.

    Good luck trading 2k silver for a 120 mage scroll. You'll need it.

    Wenchy
     
  40. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Actually your argument is severely floored...Most PvPers think the faction arties are stupid and i reckon the majority would ask for them to be removed if they could as points mean nothing!!

    As a PvM guild (5th biggest guild in whole of uo :D) i think it would be utterly ridiculous to have scrolls in tram...

    As i said in another post on an equaly stupid idea (have a harry in tram!!), after the week of release and every1 has 120 scrolls...

    What then???
     
  41. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Powerscrolls shouldn't of even been introduced in the first place.

    Sosaria (What's now known as Fel) has been stripped and ****d of almost everything it has since 2000 when Trammel was introduced with UO: Renaissaince. Powerscrolls is practically the only way a hard working PK can make any real money anymore. Trammies now wanting Powerscrolls for no Risk? Damn, they're sounding more like WoW players every day.

    PvP has practically lost all the risk in it. What do you lose when you die in PvP? Some insurance gold and some fame, big whoop, about 3-5 monster kills and you got all the gold back, and Glorious Lord/Dread Lord doesn't mean crap anymore, not like it used to. Some guy calls you a newb? Who gives damn, words can only hurt you if you let them. Most PvMers are too lazy to earn something through a little blood, brains and hard work. If you want to enter our one facet, and take something from it, you'd damn well better earn it, and us PvPers are gonna make you earn it.

    Back in the day, we didn't just PvP for fun, we didn't just PvP for profit, we PvPed to survive. Anyone who was too timid and/or ignorant to learn how to defend themselves, was asking to be PKed and dry looted.

    PvP AI isn't "Artificial Intelligence", it's "Actual Intelligence", or used to be for the most part, anyways.

    As for the people saying PvPers are a minority, take a look at Darkfall. It already looks as if it will have more players in the first few months than UO has now. Darkfall appeals to PvPers, oldschool UO PvPers the most, since it's heavily influenced by oldschool UO.
     
  42. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Thats a good post,

    I do remember when even PvM was more risky than it is now...much more to lose and alot less to gain!!(apart from the satisfaction of making it!!) Think of doom with no insurance!!!oh the fun that would be!!!

    And yet people still want more to gain with even less to lose!!!
     
  43. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    I used to sit in the Lich Room of Covetous and kill Liches late at night on my GM LJ Swordsman. One Lich on me, i was alright. Two on me, it was iffy, depending on the combos they pulled off. Three on me, i'd better run out that door like Forrest Gump. You died in Covetous Lich Room, you weren't getting back to your corpse in time to get your stuff before your body decayed (With all your armor/weps/regs/gold/etc on it), not unless you had someone recall outside the Lich Room entrance and rez you. Many a time i had to send out ICQs late at night asking if someone would rez me.

    During the middle of the day or the morning, you had to deal with people who would sit there and wait for you to get a Lich near death, then they'd hit it once with a Dagger so they could loot the gold off the Lich without turning grey. That didn't protect a few asshats who tried that one too many times with me, got me a few counts as well as all the gold they collected.

    Most of the reds that ran in when i was in the Lich Room tended to leave me alone. Not a whole lot of people wanted to mess with a GM LJ Swordsman wielding a Large Battle Axe. Take about 1/3 a persons life in one whack. Only ones that really did were GM Macers.
     
  44. Nylan

    Nylan Adventurer
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    I used to agree that the power scrolls should stay in fel.
    It used to be there was no real need for them.
    Then they started basing ever thing off 120 instead of 100.
    If you had the same chance to cast a spell at 100 as you did at 120 I would say fine, but you don't.

    I also don't believe that we need them in trammel so they can be farmed day in and day out.
    The last thing we need in the game is something else that can be farmed.

    Maybe as was stated earlier, a NPC vendor or a quest that will give individual characters the higher skill cap. But the price would still have to stay high enough that it would make the champ spawns and player vendors still a viable outlet. And if the NPC price followed the same rules as they do now, the popular ones would raise in price as more were bought.

    But I do not think I really need to spend 14 to 17 mil on a 120 magery scroll just because a few guilds can control the scroll market.

    I understand supply and demand, but I also know that I play this game for fun, and I am not in the habit of having millions of gold, never have and do not think I ever will.
     
  45. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Then dont...go and get one yourself!!!

    The way the new drop system works you can no longer Zerg and steal all the scrolls anyway, so give it a go and try your luck...my mage is 5x120 1xgm (scribe) never bought a scroll...and before you say i am DEFINATLY not in a pvp guild, dont believe me hear the crap DC* gets in the great lakes forum in terms of PvP!
     
  46. THAT is it exactly for me! And with the rampant cheating, it's only got worse. I don't mind dying so much as having 3 or 4 players stomping my ghost yelling NOOB! And then follow my ghost saying, "Aww, we're sorry. Let me rez you..."

    Well, that and I ping 220's on a normal day... heh, and people complain about pings of 50.
     
  47. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    You couldn't be more incorrect. The people who do fel spawns would continue to do them as they always have. The problem would be the devaluation of the scrolls themselves. Noone is going to convince me that being able to control who is at the spawn competing with your prize is going to be given up to join a bunch of trammies for the small chance at a crappy 110 with no protection scrolls. Ridiculous.

    The power scrolls should be replaced with items not needed by both playstyles. Champ spawns should give PvP centered rewards. Power scrolls are needed by PvE playstyles and shouldn't be a reward for PvP.

    If they put in scrolls in tram the champ spawns would garbage and worthless because of the numbers of people competing for the minute chance at a good scroll from 1 of the 6 that dropped.
     
  48. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I really dont understand why people wouldnt just try to get the scrolls!!!

    Seriously its not even that hard!!!

    Even at peak times you can walk away with half the scrolls after being raided on the 2nd level!
     
  49. I agree with the rest of your post, just not this sentence. What would be wrong with a devaluation, meaning making them available to more of the player base? Why should a 120 mage scroll cost 20mil?
     
  50. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    why should a crimmy be worth 14?
    Why should an orny be worth 10??

    BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FRIKING HARD TO GET!!!!