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So, with the tidal wave of Bless Deeds that have washed over Britannia....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Prince Caspian, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. ...I wonder if we'll see more folks in Felucca.

    I mean, you can build moth characters that have a zero gold insurance payout when they die. You lose absolutely nothing. You just have to be inconvenienced briefly to go find a healer.

    Although I must admit PKs are now almost extinct. Sure, we run into Waka and other PK mobs when we do PAS guild events, but I have my Ninja who harvests silver in Felucca at least three times a week.

    I've done that for three years now, and I can say without exaggeration I can count on one hand how many times I've run across another player, much less a PK, in those three years.
     
  2. i'm not sure it's the cost of insurance that keeps people from felucca, but the grieving and childish play that sometimes comes with it. also, my insurance costs are much more when pvming and i tend to die a lot more too.

    not sure what shard you're playing, but on atlantic, there's tons of people in fel.
     
  3. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Hmm I wonder why they all cattered to atlantic...

    :popcorn:
     
  4. cattered? not sure what that is.

    everyone's on atlantic because the population is high enough to always have someone to fight with or against.
     
  5. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Not sure if having an entirely blessed suit and weapons is going to get people to go into fel. There are just too many other reasons and perceptions that people have that are preventing them from even trying to PVP, and until those issues are addressed, they will just stay in tram doing what they've always been doing and as long as their paying for their accounts I have no problem with that.
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I'm not too convinced that a wave of bless deeds matters much in the age of insurance here. Aside from ruining it for those rare collectors who have the original bless deeds. The only shard I would worry about is Siege since they don't have insurance. However it does kind of ruin it for the honest players in regards to comments I've heard about the exploits.
     
  7. we don't have bless deeds on siege, so no need to worry! ;p
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ah good to hear they didn't make it on Siege!
     
  9. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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  10. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I wonder how long before they just make it a standard thing. Did UO just take another step towards being just another game?

    Thanks, abusers (or whatever this was). And I really don't know what to say to the Devs....
     
  11. It is true that people are jerks all over, and in Fel you can do something about it other than wave your fist and recall out.

    But by the same token, I think the playerbase has largely spoken that they do not like non-consensual PvP, at least not all the time. I played during the Dread Lord Days, and most every shard was a zoo. Bullying and antisocial behavior were indeed rampant, mostly from the insanely powerful smiting the weaker players simply to be jerks and lord power over other players.

    I'm starting to see that those scars run pretty deep and no matter what, Felucca is going to remain desolate except for the Siege Players and a handful of PvPers.
     
  12. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    There's just no justice in Fel. Nor in Tram, for that matter.
     
  13. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Thats the sad thing... the EA GM page still prones player justice... especially since the GMs will not intervene...

    It's become more than just a sad thing actually...
     
  14. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Yes, and UO was so close to getting it right. Soooo close.
     
  15. pgib

    pgib Guest

    It is not about the loss of money when you die: i'm more than able to die by myself, i don't need to be raided for that.

    Felucca is simply lost, there's no hope for it. The problem is that being there means that you will be attacked FOR NO REASON AT ALL, just on sight.

    There is no pvp involved here, it is just psycopaths vs players.

    What i'm i supposed to do down there? Spend two hours raising a spawn just to be killed at the very end, when i'm trying to keep my pet alive against a 50k-area damaging necro mob, with ten undeads biting my arse?

    Oh joy, what a fun!

    Of course Trammel is no paradise: start a mini-champ, raise it to the boss and chances are some scoundrel passing by will attack it while you are finishing some final level mob. It's a consequence of poor desing. But it is just a chance.

    Now if i go to Scumland and start a spawn i'll get raided: it is not a chance, it is granted. I mean, if you're a pk all you have to loose is insurance to get the results of an hour of scrolls: it would be stupid not to try it.
     
  16. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    You can bless a sword, but you can't bless an ego.
     
  17. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I don't think people have yet realised how game breaking this crysis is. They need to delete all of the bless deeds in the game in my opinion and turn anything that was blessed insured. Regardless of how the bless deeds were required.
     
  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Good grief. I spent a lot of time and money rummaging through garbage on other servers in order to get turn in points since I was not big on saving stuff. It seems you want me to give that up and go with nothing because some people took advantage of a bug? Screw that, BAD idea.
     
  19. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    I think this and Caspian's post above pretty much sum up the reason people don't go to Feluccia. Add the fact that an average player can't compete in PVP against someone who's 100% focused on it, and there is no reason to try. It's all about gear and template and mine are not set up to compete. IMO bless deeds will have no effect here.
     
  20. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    In order to PvP, you must have a good PvP suit. I don't have a good PvP suit. Therefore, I do not PvP.

    It wouldn't matter if my suit was blessed or not. My suit sucks, so I would lose every single fight either way.
     
  21. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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    What exactly is gamebreaking on that issue? Some cheaters have a couple thousand bless deeds. So what? Does that justify screwing the legal players over? What does it matter to you if the player you killed had all his **** insured or blessed? You will get it neither way...
     
  22. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    The issue isnt fel or trammel. Both facets have their issues on player's behaviors and actions. The facet doesnt make the players act a certain way. It's the person who is on the computer playing not the facet.

    My opinion on the bless deeds......well....this has happened before with other items......... devs wont get rid of them.... kind of stuck with them.

    So..........

    You wont see bless deeds used on imbued pieces.

    You will see bless deeds used on arties.

    You will see bless deeds on runic armor.

    On the arties they may be used but in the end the devs are always adding more new powerful arties so old arties will be useless later on. It's the curse of the pixel crack.
     
  23. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I'm merely saying that the bless deeds should be deleted, not everything, it's only the bless deeds that will ruin the game.
     
  24. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Again, you are saying that since I spent 20 hours + buying stuff up to purchase bless deeds I should give them up because some other people took advantage? Seems like you want me to lose the efforts I put in legally in favor of punishing someone else. Again, that is not a solution...

    I understand what you are saying...you are saying I should get screwed because I spent ALL of my points on deeds. Well done and thanks for your consideration.
     
  25. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    You might be the only person on the whole of Uhall who's taking Mervyn seriously at this point.
     
  26. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Well it isn't just him. There are a lot of people crying over this...and most often I see them over embellishing the truth. Just sickens me that some people feel the deeds should be removed after some of us put honest time and effort into getting them.
     
  27. Hellstorm

    Hellstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    I turned in enough stuff to get 12 bless deeds... I am saving them for higher end items that get passed between all my chars and used daily.

    No, bless deeds are not going to get one more player in fel.

    When tram started, fel players whined, and cried... Fel is an empty waste land, when in fact there was always PVP going on. What nobody, not one person would admit to, was they missed targets of opportunity, that were not equipped for pvp, or just sucked at it.

    I started UO in 97, and i was stuck taming dogs and cats in moonglow, and fighting them... there were pk's at every gate. I could go out naked, just trying to pick up some regs and get killed, and rez killed, and trash talked. When I finally got enough taming to unleash an unholy barrage of tamed bears and wolves on one of my regular pk's... he called a GM and accused me of griefing him.

    I wont name names, but this same player, is now a respected board member, vet player, and guild leader, x-shard trader, rares dealer...

    I go to fel, to get what I need and when I need it, but non consentual pvp in UO was a failure that drove away customers, and birthed tram... It is an ugly wasteland, and serves as a reward for those players that forced it into existance.

    I can pvp, and will evil omen, lethal poison, choke, strangle, and summon a greater dragon on a PK without issue... But there are many casual players that cant, and have chosen not to even bother... can you blame them?
     
  28. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i kinda agree, i think in order to be able to pvp you should be in factions or a warring guild, then make it so you cant be attacked in fel unless you are.

    i really love to pvp, the problem is i do not like to play a red character.

    pvp is nothing but handing out murder counts.. or guard whacking.

    they need to remove murder counts and guards.

    also make it so you dont get ANYTHING from a champ spawn unless you are in factions..
     
  29. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    I've been pvping in the same suit I made probably 5-6 years ago, it's not amazing by any means and could easily be out-classed through imbuing. I've gotten thousands of kills in it.

    If you have a little skill you can use most any gear :D
     
  30. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Yup... I'm not surprised... and I can blame them but I'm not going to do anything about it since I am not the Avatar...

    non-consensual pvp wasn't a failure at all... thats where you miss the point ; the community failed and let people "buy" the game and turn it in what it is.

    This fact at least hasn't been disputed once since I brought it up in 2008 ; and no we aren't naming names.
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    "non-consensual pvp wasn't a failure at all... "

    Yeah it was. There was no justice, and nothing to stop the PKers from running rampant. Thus the term "rampant PKing".

    So now we've gone to the other end of the spectrum. And there it will stay because of numbers, with PvP being limited to battle grounds and low populated PvP shards. This was inevitable, because players refuse to meet in the middle ground where a better world could have been found.

    Cal offered to allow us to meet there. But we once again refused. So be it, it is on our heads.
     
  32. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    How does this supposed lack of insurance effect pvp? Items being blessed doesn't change the game play at all. The ONLY thing it changes is reequipping your equipment after being res'd... you know when you go and click your corpse and it auto equips everything that you were previously wearing? UNLESS it's blessed. Now you're sitting their naked and can be RK'd by any means of damage. go go gadget blessed suit...
     
  33. olduofan

    olduofan Guest


    like I had said in anther thread I would have paid 200k turn-in points to remove a bless tag I would never waste any points or gold on any blessed deeds or items they should just remove them all.
     
  34. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Thats right Treb, we are not victims... however you are looking at the wizard of Oz projection on the wall...

    Look behind the curtains and see... there was player justice, my red was a legend, and was handed his own socks in a sandwich.

    My death was the cause of a celebration by hundreds of people, and you can bet their joy was profound and lasting.

    The problem... is the hackers, and since there is inaction AND non-communication about the major issues... you can bet upon what you will find behind the veil.

    Thats how we failed, not because we didn't accept the hand of someone we didn't know and who refused to realise that you can't change a world by adding more freedom as a convenience.

    Freedom is something you fight for, not something you own ; to be virtuous.

    The high disregard for true virtue is the culprit... inside our own community.

     
  35. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    But your death didn't stop you from continuing to PK. Or at least it didn't stop PKers as a whole. And that left players who didn't want to be PKed all the time still being PKed all the time. The death of a PKer did nothing for the game world, there was no reason to stop PKing whenever one felt like it, all the time, as a way of playing.

    And for most PKers, it was a short cut to loot and resources. They risked a meaningless death to save themselves the hours that their victims put into gathering, producing, or buying with gold they spent the same time to gather.

    "Hey, you can play this great game. All you have to do is the work so others can win off your efforts, while you lose most of the time."
    No, that's not a good marketing strategy.

    Then UO built up a justice system, and it partially worked. There was risk to the PKer, and failure meant taking the character off the playing field for a time. But loopholes in the system made it collapse as far as the victimized players were concerned. That's why I said earlier that UO almost had it. But almost only counts in.......
     
  36. Wizal the Fox

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    Bless Deeds have nothing to do with the Tram/Fel debate (unless you remove insurance of course), because the Problem has never been what the Blue loose in Fel when they die to a PK, but the fact that the Red has nothing to loose either. Reds have no skillpoints to loose on PvM skills, no mobs to take care of, and usually the advantage of suprise (they are the ones raiding). Penalties for dying as a Red should be HUGE, and they are not.
     
  37. Even if i had th ebest suit and it was blessed and i had better weapons i would die vs even the worst PVPer why ?? macros !! i use 4 when i PVM and thats about it ever see a PVMer cast 16 spells when saying hello to a guildy ??? do away with reds and blues if you need colors have a simple tier type thing where only anther green player or a yelllow player can attack a green player and so on up !!! as you gain in PVP kills you get new colors kind like in martial arts that ways its even ground for all
     
  38. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Thats where I'll point you at victim mentality, and this is much more dangerous to a community and a "game" than any pkiller gank mega-guild.

    Thats when the community failed, but you see nothing was lost ; its all in here *points to his head*.

    So what you are doing is terrible in fact, the way you approach this philosophical question once again I will say : he who studies evil is studied by evil.

    Your "precious ressources" that you painfully gathered ; if they are so precious you would have hired a body guard, or joined a guild apt to defend yourself.

    It makes no sense... none at all my dear friend.

    The penalties for me was 6 months of continuous macro, or 4 months to bring back the character to a competitive level.

    4 months, and losing the value of your own head, and your name...

    thats a true penalty.

    Losing your "precious ressources"... is materialism.
     
  39. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I think it's sorta funny because at first people were like, "Bless deeds? WTF?!" But people countered that with, "10 mil per bless deed makes it okay," and "Why would anyone waste points on bless deeds post-insurance (except on Siege)?" But put something valuable on the list, like a Bless Deed, and people will inevitably find a way to farm/exploit, huh? I wonder if anyone is mad about all of the boots...or all of the bestial suits, etc?

    Well, I really don't know why the devs included the bless deed in the first place. All that talk about getting rid of LRC and making the game harder again and then bless deeds are re-released and free LRC for only 60k pts. I guess they won't add the bless deed again after this one, though ;P.
     
  40. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    The fact is there isn't much risk and reward in PvP these days. Insurance is nothing, not when you can make millions with literally no work.

    I got bitched out before for saying this, but unless things change with Fel, if people want serious PvP, they need to go to Siege or play another game. You can find pockets of good PvP here and there on the shards, but with insurance, it's still lacking.
     
  41. Shiznit Bo'Bourbon

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    Or he'd just go play EverQuest like everyone else the PKs ran out of UO, you whackjob.
     
  42. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It's not "precious resources", it's the player's time and efforts.

    Hire a guard? Fine. Then the PKer brings a friend. Come on, you know how it worked. They'd sit around in IRC and when a need arose they could usually muster. They'd send out blue spies or ghosts, just like they did when the Champ Spawns were more active, to scout. It was always a no win scenario in an overall way. Yeah, you could win some times, but more often lose. And the risk was entirely on the non-PKers, because the real thing at risk was your time and effort, not the gear PKers took off of other players.

    And what are you going to do when you log on at 5:00, but your guild isn't mustering until 8:00? Not play? This is an unreasonable expectation except for players who live for PvP. And most don't. And yet, for those who do, few play regularly on Fel or Siege.

    But here we are. At this same place. Still not meeting in the middle. Still stuck with far less than the world we could have, if only that world had "justice" to ward off "crime". If only the heavy PvPers weren't so adamant that the rest of the players should somehow have to play their game.
     
  43. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Thanks, I haven't read it yet, but from your tone I know you are saving me some typeworking...

    Thats exactly what I have been talking about all along... people are older now, the old Feluca dosen't make sense anymore ?

    you have to see the irony to lift the veil :

    you see its not "their game"... its mine.

    An unfortunate truth...

    These people that you hate so strongly you mix up memories in your mind (comparing past and present in a cross-linked way)

    the meta-gamers.

    I killed them as much as they killed you I'm sure.

    But this is beyond the point !

    I'm not trying to say "hey thats that, its THE truth"... but all those souls belong to me.

    I'm not trying to say hey who those books, or hey why bless deeds... these are all questions that shall remain without answers, unless some of you start to grasp the true story of UO and why there is time travel and dimention shifting involved...

    I really can't download that in your brain... but I'm willing to aswer every question you might have, so we can meet middle way.

    The bounty system worked, but didn't because of meta-gamers. Fine.

    Give me the power ?

    Thats the only way to resolve the issue. The current EPIC failure is proof enough. There is emotional continuity in this game and sooner or later the Bal-Lem will be set free...and the true UO story will surface again.

    Or maybe you shouldn't trust me blindly and just take and leave of my message, as it should be.

    You are living in a world where "magic forces" protect your character and you can lose nothing, the only alternative is siege and its playstyle is heavily affected by the people who wanted the "magic forces" in the first place. Its like breadcrumbs, and its not receiving the attention a "unique" server should have. Since you have 2 sets of rules, both should receive equal attention. It really makes you wonder which playstyle affects the other the most...

    You see Treb, its not you I'm worried about, its them. They *censored*... :rant2:
     
  44. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    and it goes much deeper than any of you had fathomed before, time is running thin...

    It cannot be more explicit...

    I feel alot of pain brigning this up... don't think I enjoy this.
     
  45. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Why should the penalties be huge? With the invention of trammel (and all other areas) you have a choice as to whether or not you want to encounter non-consensual pvp. Essentially the only victims are the few who choose to play in fel for something other than pvp. With the creation of trammel rule-set areas fel is basically nothing more than a PvP facet and thus I no longer see any real purpose for murder counts. They really should have scrapped them when AoS came out. Heck, even when tram was invented.
     
  46. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I'll tell you, the best of the PvPers are on Siege. I would play with them in a heartbeat, if only Siege were worthy as a shard/game. They are the mature ones.

    Of course, if Siege were set up better, and drew numbers of players, then all the scum would show up too.

    Even so, with all the nagging little things about Siege that stick in my craw, I am often tempted to pick up stakes and move there. But it has so many little things. It was done so cheaply. And I was never a fan of removing the NPC component and making it all about the player's trades and interactions. Ahh, well, who knows. Maybe some day. Those are the good PvPers and players, and they call to me regularly, like a Will'O'Wisp in the dark forest.
     
  47. Wizal the Fox

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    You are reasonning based on the false assumption that players either are PvPers and don't PvM and should play in Fel, or are PvMer and don't PvP and should stay in Tram.

    Based on what the world was before the invention of facets, the vast majority of players, including myself, just don't mind about some PvP but just don't PvP for PvP all the time, only when there is SOME purpose, like gaining a special drop or something. For people who want to PvP for no other purpose than PvP itself there are Factions, and I am of course not talking about that but about Red PKs vs Blue players wondering in Fel for a purpose, such as doing a champ.

    If you want to PvP for the sake of it, just play in factions, but if you decide to go the Red way, you SHOULD have a HUGE penalty when you die to compensate the HUGE advantage to beeing able to have all your skills dedicated to killing other players. Maybe the impossibility to use insurance at all, or the impossibility to logout/timeout without the hiding skill, or whatever....

    Now before everyone say Siege Siege Siege Siege Siege, not everyone wants to pay a secondary account just to be able to place a house on Siege.
     
  48. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Sacrifice is a virtue... you chose to live in a split world and not hold siege ?

    Your choice...
     
  49. There would be no Trammel if it weren't for the out of control player killings. The hope was to bring back some old players that left when Everquest came out. I even remember EQ Devs bragging that players would not get PKed there. I believe UO started to make a come back but AOS left a very sour taste in people's mouths.

    I sure miss the days of items actually having some meaning and a name instead of all these dumb numbers and stats. Silver Vang viking Sword anyone remember? I don't need to know every little freaking stat on it. Increase defense, swing, all that crap is all really not needed. Let people work off thier personal stats instead. Want to hit harder, then have high strength, want to swing super fast or not get hit as much then have high Dex while in light armor. Grr this game was so much more fun back in the days before AoS number crunching ruined it. And no I don't mean the pre-Trammel days...That is very forgetable :)
     
  50. PRECISELY.

    The only reason PK players were upset about Trammel is that their prime sheep (crafters, new players, players not set up for the lopsided PvP system) were gone and there were a hell of a lot less easy kills.

    Is a PKer a jerkwad who just wants to lord power over you and rejoice in the giddy thrill of ruining someone's day when they are powerless to stop him? Or is it "role playing" a villain?

    It's debatable. But back in the wild and wooly Dread Lord Days, I saw far, far, FAR too many instances of the PKs going out of their way to be ash holes and screwing over newbies to put much stock in the latter.

    If you ask me. But, you know, that's just if you ask.