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Some feedback from an old vet who is considering returning.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I just thought I'd post some feedback, in the thoughts that it might interest the devs in some way, or perhaps not. I have considered coming back to UO, and what has stopped me from coming back is the cost.

    With UO you have your monthly fee, then you have a yearly expansion, or some form of content which if you don't get, there is a good chance you will miss out on a lot of the fun. Newer MMOG's, and I am not going to mention any names, have subscription fees which are comparable to UO's, but they don't charge for expansions.

    That extra $80 Canadian for "expansions" for the two accounts I used to have open, was a significant strain on my limited entertainment budget. In effect, a much newer game, for which I expect the infrastructure costs are much higher, is actually significantly less expensive for me to play.
     
  2. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Well the plus side here is if you buy the SA expansion and resub every expansion prior to SA is now Free. So you get part of what you want. As far as yearly expansions it took us 2-3 years to get SA lol.

    Your choice really though, to me UO is the only one worth paying a sub to play, but thats just me and everyones intitled to there opinion.
     
  3. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Nah. Feel free to name names. I don't know what ones you are talking about. I think the mainstream all pay for expansion. WoW does and it's the biggest. Most industries follow the leaders as it makes them money and when a model works people generally go for it.

    I realize 30$ is a big chunk of money for some folks to upgrade their games but it's been over 4 years since the last one. I'd like to have them in a more timely manner myself and have no qualms whatsoever paying the money. I'd like a discount on a 5 pack like others have asked but EA is greedy.

    Maybe they will take the money they aren't discounting and put it into making the uogamecodes site not suck. :p
     
  4. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Thats what I was thinking too... I think most games charge for expansions.
     
  5. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I dunno, the $27.54 for 2 accounts I spend for a months worth of entertainment,seems pretty worth it to me.

    If you can`t afford that cost and maybe one expansion every 3 years or so.......I dunno what to tell ya,maybe stick to what your into now. :thumbsup:
     
  6. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    There are at least two of the big mainstream MMOG's, one of them with a considerably larger subscription base, and both of them newer than UO, that don't charge for expansions. I'm not going to name names. I try not to advertise for the competition on a game forum.
     
  7. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I dunno. I'm sort of with the OP on this.

    While I pay for 2 subs on a 6-month cycle, and have pretty much bought into ML and the other releases, I'm finding it hard to justify US$60 or so for SA pre-release cost much less post-release costs.

    Yes, I'm using the SA Enhanced client and playing on Retribution ... as I was in closed beta. However it is not anything except RL budgetary concerns that make me say this.

    I believe Canada has a VAT that really adds cost onto what we in the US pay ... which would make budget issues even larger than here.
     
  8. i just came back, and its the same ol uo. Nothing has really changed, another bad idea (a new client) which its not worth playing, so im playing 2d again, which ill add i dont mind at all.

    I dont need the fancy graphics, i just want a stable player rich enviroment. Which UO has but it is dwendeling. The citys are drying up slowley but surley.

    But o well. I play Atlantic and its decently populated not as much as a year ago, nor 5 years ago.

    but thats okay game goes on.
     
  9. Kiwillian

    Kiwillian Guest

    The only two I can think of are Eve and CoH.
     
  10. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Possibly DDO and LotRO would count, too?
    Who knows...
    That's 4 advertised, now, as a direct consequence of theorising the identities of the 2 you wouldn't name.
    Oops.
     
  11. Kiwillian

    Kiwillian Guest

    Pretty sure LOTRO is paid expansions. I think Mines of Moria was anyway, which is the only one so far. So I guess D&DO would be too.
     
  12. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I forgot MoM, and was only thinking of the "books" with LotRO.
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I think one of the drawbacks about Ultima Online is the problem with Subscriptions suspended and Houses on those account falling.

    Now, while apparently this might be good because some players may stop playing and leave their subscriptions on for a while or because we get IDOCs, for the game itself in the long run I think it is not good at all.

    Why ?

    Because it may make harder for players to return to the game after a while away.

    I will explain myself better.

    Those players who are not planning a short leave of a month or two, since their house is going to fall usually get rid of everything.

    Then, after 6 months or a year or more, when they consider coming back, the fact that they no longer have a house and that all their stuff is gone might work as a deterrant for them to come back.

    Instead, if players could keep all of their belongings even while they are away (as it is with other games), this could possibly help in making perspective returning players make up their mind and come back to the game, finding all that they had back there for them to start again with.
     
  14. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Lineage 2 is one of the biggest and don't charge for expansions. And they don't have an online shop like F2P. They stick to transfer and name/sex changes services. Except in Korea.
     
  15. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Uo is a product, selling units makes money.

    $30 for an expansion is buttons.
     
  16. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Its a good thing because new players, or returning players. Can place a house easily(at the moment) if you leave all houses up it just becomes a mass of deserted houses.


    Disagree.


    Then they left the wrong way.

    Its called a bank box, 6chars 125items in each 750items.

    That could equate to 750mil if they sell everything, plus the suits each char wears, plus what remains in there backpacks.

    In short, you can keep everything you need to keep.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Last I knew there is an inactive accounts characters' purge schedule.

    That it is not used it does not mean it is totally safe. If decision for a clean up is made all is gone for good....

    Besides, after sometime some items may have become obsolete and so, not worth much.

    My point was, that for a returning player the less they have away to start again with, the more it could work for them as a deterrant to start it all over again from scratch.

    Having instead what they left could make them more likely make up their mind and return to the game since they could count on all they had when they left.

    It helps making that decision to come back to the game, IMHO..........
     
  18. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I did that, plus two beetles (125 items each). Now I'm back, with a bigger house and moving in was really easy thanks to commodity deeds.
     
  19. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Example of the correct way of leaving :)

    I left the wrong way...didnt think id ever be coming back...6years later...well, im back lol

    I actually really enjoyed starting from scratch again, was great fun! Learned the game all over again, i dont think i would have stayed if id had everything.

    Oh and Poops, gold is gold. Its still gold when they return. armour isnt going to change much anymore, weapons may who knows. A mage suit will be a mage suit, i cant see that changing.

    1magesuit
    1dexxersuit
    1smith

    3accounts loaded with gold

    Youd be set to return right back in the swing of things, house or no house.
     
  20. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well then that makes at least four large, subscription based MMOG's, that don't charge for expansions, EVE, COH, Lineage 2, and Darkfall Online.
     
  21. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, I did the same thing, but I had heard that if you logged out on your beetle, and cancelled your sub, you might lose what it was carrying, so I didn't do that. But everything that I cared about, except my houses, fit nicely into my bank accounts.
     
  22. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    True but they all suck!!

    It can be hard justifiying that kind of expense on a game. Especially at the moment.

    I must admit i didn't realise it was so expensive, im in uk and when i see $30 i think £20 which isnt that bad.
     
  23. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Twenty quid, what's that, about six pints? It's sweety money they are asking for an expansion every few years.
     
  24. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Im fine with £20 the op said it was $80 for him though. Thats alot of money!
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    But it isn't every few years, it is pretty much every year, without fail. Even on the years when there wasn't what could be classified as an expansion, they found some way of getting money beyond the subscriptions. I don't know about last year, but the year before that it was an extra character slot, the year before that it was something else that I can't remember, but there was something.

    There is no sales tax for a product purchased outside the country, but when you take into account the exchange rate, and service charges, it gets expensive pretty fast.
     
  26. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Have you even tried the new SA client? I was working it on a 1.8ghz system with only 512MB ram. Not the best performance but it was more stable than KR. Yes, a learning curve with macros and so forth ... but it's got 2D, some UOA and some UOAM abilities inside it.

    I've played 2D for years ... avoiding 3D and KR like the plague after having issues with them not resolved in a reasonable time. This client has not disappointed me ... it is better.
     
  27. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Some things to note, DFO has had 1 expansion and yes it was free but I wouldn't call it big. It actually has less subs than UO. I mean a lot less.

    CoH hasn't had a major expansion since 2005 and I believe those you had to pay for and the new major expansion Going Rouge I believe you will have to pay for. I could be wrong, I haven't played CoH in a good while.

    EvE does have free expansions.

    Lineage 2 I believe does the deal where you buy the newest game and it comes with all previous expansions. I think the last one included 7 expansions.



    You only have to buy Stygian Abyss when it comes out. The rest are free. Which is pretty much standard for MMO's (Generally you buy a Blah collection and it includes the new expansion and all previous expansions, this is standard practice).

    In any case, a handful of MMO's going against the norm and out of those only one could be considered large (Lineage 2). Eve has come a long way but it's still niche. CoH doesn't have a large player base either. DFO has the lowest sub count out of all of them.
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And next year I'll have to buy the next expansion, or whatever gimmick that they come up which I'll feel I "must" buy. And the year after that it will be something else, and then the year after that it will be yet another. You get the picture I'm sure. Once you are on the treadmill you can't get off. The previous expansions may be free with the latest, but that doesn't do you much good when you've already payed for them.
     
  29. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    No, Lineage 2 has many expansion and it's always been free. From time to time there's a collector box with a statuette or an ingame item, but the expansion are all free. The reason is that they want everybody to have the same client, the same content. It's a lot better because when you're making a party, there isn't players with access to this and not to that, just because they didn't bend over yet. Also, L2 is clan-based and much more competitive than UO so it doesn't really make sense to have to pay for the expansion that almost everybody is forced to buy anyway. It would be more a tax.

    In UO I can understand that you must pay for an expansion, if that allows them to hire a different team for expansion and work faster. What I don't accept is the F2P online shop we have.
    UO is almost 12 years old, and it still has a subscription fee at the top of the market, you have to pay for expansions, there are additional services (transfer and the like) but also an online shop similar to F2P with deco items and really helpful items that can't be obtained ingame. Plus they add the anniversary boxes that are just another tax for veterans who want the special item and not a box to welcome new players. And of course they turned the anniversary thing from a gift to players to a promotional item for sale. To thank players playing for this long, they ask more money.
    I already did the remark that I got no gift for 9th "anniversary", and on the 10th Jeremy made the effort to give a good fistful of tokens. Thank you again Jeremy BTW. Alas it seems we're back to gifts we have to buy. Did you give 11th anniversary "gifts"? No, of course.

    So Producer Cal, where is the sandbox spirit when all you give is more bills? Sandbox game where you can't obtain items ingame but you have to pay for them in an online shop? Yeah, so sandbox... :talktothehand:
     
  30. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    I dont see how you can complain over new additions to a game. If it is smaller changes they are free if it is bigger changes they will charge you money. All in all MMOs will be alot cheaper pr. hour than most other hobbies you will find :)
    And since its been 4 years snce the last expansion I dont really see it adding that much up... all the other stuff you can buy to upgrade your account is just a way for the dev team to make some money to make us a even bette game.. you dont have to buy them :)
     
  31. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    lol, so basically you're saying you're an addict and can't control yourself so you want the devs to take away the urge?

    You don't have to buy anything. Plenty of people get buy without 6th and 7th char slots. Plenty get buy without an extra account. Plenty get buy without extra storage. The game is more than playable and enjoyable without all that. Most of what is on the store can be bought in game from other players if you really want it but don't want to pay money and even none of that is game breaking. The underlyibng thing here is, you do not have to buiy it.

    Another thing to remember is, if UO quits making money the game shuts down and then everyone loses. Do you think we truly have enough subs to support the game with monthly fee's alone? I mean we could propbably pay the bills but as far as making a profit? Enough of a profit that would warrant dealing with all the headaches that come with it? EvE has one server and very low overhead for an MMO so it can get by and make a decent profit with far less. Lineage 2 has a large numbers of players.

    In any case, EA is going to either make enough money to make the hassle worth it, or they are going to shut it down.



    As far as making us pay every year for an expansion. Mondains Legacy came out in 2005, were getting SA in 2009. Between those two you are saying every year they offered some other must have thing? 7th char slot and extra storage............ ok thats 1 year, what did they offer the other years?

    And lastly and this one is important, if you would like you don't even have to buy SA. You can simply do the 14 day free trial and then go to a paying sub at the end of the trial without ever having to buy any of the game expansions (Except SA if you want to get the newest content) and without paying for the game at all except for the monthly fee!

    So you have options, if you want to play SA then you have to pay just as you would with the majority of the other MMO's out there. Nothing new, nothing unexpected. Thats how things generally work so I know it's not anything new to you.

    Bottom line is, you either find SA worth paying for or you don't. If you don't then you don't buy it and don't play it. If you do you buy it.
     
  32. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Then I stand corrected on Lineage 2, my appologies. As far as the Item mall thing, honestly it doesn't bother me with UO like it does with other MMO's. Me and the wife were discussing that a month or so ago. The conclussion I came to was I didn't mind it in UO because the game wasn't built around it. A lot of Item Mall games the game is built around it so that the game while playable is a lot less enjoyable and a bit harder on you if you don't use the item mall. They make it so it's almost a necessity. Then to make things worse they add in game breaking things to the item mall. Things you have no access to outside of the item mall that can have a huge impact on game play. You are pvp'ing against someone that bought some armor and weapons off the item mall and your using what the game has to offer and you simply have no chance, that kind of thing.

    In UO the "Item Mall" really has little to no impact on the game. There is some decent stuff you can buy but none of it gives you any huge advantage or even mild advantages. Char transfers are generally a pay thing in an MMO anyways so that doesn't count. A Tree? A Hitching post (That can be made in game and is only a convenience item)? A tombstone? What on the UO "Item Mall" has any game breaking effect, what on there must you have to play and enjoy the game?

    Advanced char tokens? They bump you up to what, 85 skill in 5 skills? That takes 2-3 days tops now days anyways.

    There is absolutely nothing I MUST have to enjoy the game on the UO "Item Mall". Nothing that will make my chars better than anyone elses. Nothing that will impact the game in much of any way. There either fluff items, or items of convenience. Thats about it. Other MMO's that are based around Item Malls are the exact opposite.
     
  33. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree, you can get by without perks like a 6th character slot, but if you have friends in game you will find yourself cut out of an awful lot of activities if you don't purchase expansions.
     
  34. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Im almost certain you could find someone out there willing to sell an expansion code for in game gold as well. People are nutcases!

    Expansions are a part of this gme, it helps to keep the game running and provide us with the EM's and GM's(apparantly) devs to fix bugs etc...

    The extras as have been mentioned dont have to be bought so it really is only $30every 3years? $10 a year isnt bad for entertainment imo.
     
  35. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    May we be privy to these new games? i will shoot you a PM, well we fully agree with your observations.

    -G-
     
  36. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Actually I was just looking at the game codes store. Those earrings of protection might not seem like much, but +2 to a resist of your choice on a pvp suit is actually fairly significant.
     
  37. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    He was in truth talking about DFO. He has the same name on there official forums as he does here lol. Soon as I saw the name I knew it was about DFO. Opened the thread and low and behold lol.

    Then after a few are named but without anyone naming "it"

     
  38. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    With Imbuing I can have +15 Animal Taming, +15 Animal Lore, and max out a few resists on my earrings. So.......................... Not sure earrings are the best to use as an example. You'd have to buy the SA expansion for that though lol.
     
  39. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, I already named them further up the thread. I was thinking specifically of EVE and Darkfall Online. I just very much dislike the whole business of content that can't be accessed unless you buy an expansion, or item malls. But anyway, the whole point of my original post was simply to let the devs know that there was at least one who disliked that particular business model for MMOG's.
     
  40. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    First of all, no, expansions aren't what keep GM and EM running. That's what we pay a monthly fee for! The price of an expansion can only be justified by another team working on it.

    Secondly, it's nice to hear that what's not overpowering in PvP or god power in PvE is useless and can be sold for real money. But not everybody has your playstyle and decoration items are a tax for house decorators. Why do house decorators have to pay with real money to get additions?
    That's even more insulting when you see how the content that's ingame isn't even complete. Yet they have the nerve to throw "oh we didn't finish the roof sets and there'll be missing half of the doors of SA expansion, but that's not important : you can buy crystal/dark set, you can buy all those cool decorations too!"
    That's insulting. Period.
     
  41. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Nah, You used to be a vet.....you gave up, you quit. Enough for labels.....

    Considering the cost of 30 dollars, American.....if you played everyday, that's 2.50 a month..........8 cents a day..........the cost ain't jack.

    I don't play other games, as I have too much in reality going on and can't spare the time. I did try WoW, that was a joke and is for losers anyways.
    If other companies are following WoW, then they are nothing but bandwagon jumpers and lack creativity, thus making them a horse dung outfit in the end.

    Don't wanna pay??, Don't play.

    later
     
  42. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    If you can't afford to pay the buttons required then, tough. Twenty quid a year is laughable.
     
  43. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest

    I've paid for expansions in UO, DAOC and WoW. I've also gotten free content upgrades from all 3 at different times. I disagree that UO is handling this any different than other MMOs. There is a LOT to this expansion besides gargoyles and imbuing. Its a major effort thats deserving of an xpac fee, imo.
     
  44. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Can you really add Darkfall to the list that do not charge for an expansion? Sure... they are calling that publish an expansion - but from what I understand, this is all original content that was cut so they could get it to market faster... Adding back in what was delayed from the original schedule is hardly an expansion in my book.

    Just wait and I bet they'll see a real expansion in a year or two for sale at $29.95...
     
  45. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It really has little to do with whether I can, or can't, afford to "pay the buttons". What I am saying is that UO is an expensive MMOG to play, when compared to other newer games.

    As for the business of whether that Darkfall "expansion" was a real expansion or not, I've seen that particular discussion so many times on the DfO forums that I have no desire to get into it here. What I do know is that the DfO devs have said they won't be charging for expansions, and EVE doesn't either.

    Both of those are newer games than UO, with large teams continuing to develop the game, and neither of them have any kind of item mall for in game items. In other words, when you play the game, you don't feel like someone is following you around offering to shine your shoes for an extra dollar or two.

    No one knows Darkfall's numbers at this point, but EVE has continued to grow steadily from the time it was released and currently has far more subscribers than UO does. Perhaps the way they treat their clients, and the cost of playing the game, has something to do with that.