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[Feedback] Some Mysticism Changes Review

Discussion in 'UO Test Center' started by WarUltima, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    1. Spell Plague does too little of damage for a 7th circle spell. At 120/120 my initial spell plague explosion hits for around the damage of a lighting and the subsequent explosions does less and less. The total damage assuming all subsequent explosions procs (you only have 8 seconds) the total of all 4 damages doesnt even match the old version. And seems like this spell is no longer an Area spell... Other than you can now cast multiple without invoking an immue timer on your target this is a bad nerf to the spell.

    2. Healing Stone heals around 10hp more than 50EP Gheal on a none alchemist now and cures sometimes... overall this is a great change.

    3. Sleep/Mass Sleep with 26 second immune timer making them nearly useless. This spell is still easily broken by a sneeze and of course ultra PvP skill Tbox.

    4. Enchant doesnt show duration in 2D (does it in EC?) the duration doesnt seem to be long enough especially now it take as long as a Earthquake spell.

    5. Purge magic... this nerf is uncalled for. 8 second immune timer PER BUFF. and it doesnt prevent people to instantly put their buff back. And it WAS the only spell that can stop anyone in ninja form running away given to a mage... now gone. Paralyze spell is currently a joke thanks to the ultimate PvP skill Trapped Box.

    6. Cleansing Wind works great... it was pretty weak... 6th circle casting time for 35 and now it does up to 65. AoE effect is great! Dont know if it can be abused by people purposely standing next to ur target and cause you to heal them as well and possibly gwack you.

    Just some thoughts... rolleyes:
     
  2. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    It will only heal 3 other people that you are in party with, so just beware who you party up with.

    I agree with you on account of sleep,purge and plague. And a mage who is slept can just magic arrow themself to get free.<-[that was actually fixed now]
     
  3. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    We have sound effects when it wears off in EC.
     
  4. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    There is a sound effect in CC too. The duration on enchant on test center using Hit Lightning is roughly 1m 50 sec at 120/120. But I think there should be an icon on the buff bar to show the duration so you dont have to ...get surprised everytime it wears off.

    (Hit Harm is roughly 2m 40 sec at 120/120)
     
  5. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Agreed with Plague, it has gone the wayside of Strangle, a once very powerful spell at the release of AoS, but nerfed beyond belief and with apples, is a completely useless high-level necro spell...imagine nerfing meteor or flamestrike, mages would cry wolf in a heartbeat. And to nerf sleep AND add an immunity timer to it? Im speechless.

    UO has gotta step away from the cooldown timers, it already kills most spells in PvP for spellweaving, please dont add it to Mysticism. In all honesty, dont change mysticism if you r planning to implement these changes b/c it is finally a skill now that can somewhat standup on its own and give magery a run for its money...but these new changes will nerf it into oblivion and put it into the spellweaving category skills.

    Enchant should definitely get an icon in the buff/debuff bar, as should curse weapon, consecrate weapon...ive been saying this for months, maybe years to see these added to no avail.
     
  6. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    True, most of the changes are fine, but nerfing sleep and purge magic was too much. Sleep was one of the best spells of mysticism. Great in PvM, a minor nuisance in PvP (resist, trap box).
     
  7. Bombastic Fail

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    Sleep is useless now. Plain and simple. Not the changes to it (those are fine; it's whatever) by there should NOT BE "an immunity for XX time." Paralyze (the spell) doesn't get immuned to; so why should sleep?

    Purge is change is ok; but shouldn't have an "Immunity" either. When I purged a "No Resist" having mage out of protection; I can't do it again for 8 seconds, and he is back into protection in 1 second and now immune. I purge a Necro Mage in a choke point out of wraith form, 1 second later hes back in, and immune. Why? Whats the point?

    Also; you SHOULD be able to be purged from animal form. Its the same as wraith/vampire/etc. form.

    Why "Reward" -no resisting spells having- "ALL OFFENSIVE" templates like ninjas with immunities and not being able to be knocked out of their forms?

    All of these spells are completely "Negated" (or "Immuned) from having resisting spells. So why are we REWARDING people who don't have resist with "Immunities" ?????

    If you are trying to phase out resisting spells even more; you are doing a good job.


    Also; Spell Plague needs a much lower timer; or none at all. Blood Oath has no "cool down" timer and can be casted back to back. Spell Plague isn't NEARLY as powerful, and has a ridicioulous timer. Why?


    Also; while we are tweaking things; can we make the "Spell Trigger" timer lower too? 1 Minute is MORE than enough. I understand you don't wanna "spam" no casted spells; but you DO have to cast the Spell Trigger spell and click a menu. So that + 5 Minutes cool down = Lame


    I am glad you are tweaking and listening to the players though. So take my thoughts and ideas into consideration.

    Immunities = Wrong
    Resisting Spells = Immunites (Without being "Immune")

    Let's make resist more attractive; not a thing of the past!



    EDIT:
    Purge Magic "DAMAGE" does...

    20 Damage (0 Phys/Fire/Cold/Pois/Energy) (Full Effect)
    8 Damage (60 Phys/Fire/Cold/Pois/Energy) (Full Effect) (cursed player)
    6 Damage (70 Phys/Fire/Cold/Pois/Energy) (Full Effect)

    Skill (Resisting Spells) Doesn't Seem to matter for damage.
    (Tested both 0 resist and 120. No Difference)


    Edit 2: Am I the only one who thinks Cleaning Winds is a little too strong? I play PRIMARILY a mystic mage; and I think it's strong. Maybe the 35-65 heals is OK for a solo heal; but maybe if you do it to teammates; it can split it up?

    IDK. I just know when I am cross-healing with Lvl 6 arcane focus (120 SW) Arcane Empowerment - Cleansing winds is gonna be healing 2 teammates and MYSELF for 65-95 and curing poison and curses. That seems VERY Over Powered IMO.


    **Copied From..**

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=187826

    Sorry if I put one in the wrong place :p
     
  8. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Anyone know what the mana cost increase is at 120/120 ?

    According to my tests the mana cost increase seems to be 20% at 120/120
     
  9. Bombastic Fail

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    120 Mystic/120 Focus VS 120 Resisting Spells = 40LMC Dropped to 16 LMC (24)

    120 Mystic/120 Focus VS 0 Resisting Spells = 40LMC Dropped to 6 LMC (34)


    That's pretty insane. I forgot it did that. :p

    If it didn't have "immunity" that would be great.

    Maybe make it so you can "apple" or "remove curse" out of it, and it would be balanced I think.


    **Note; you CAN go negative LMC.
     
  10. Bombastic Fail

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    Spell Plague (Level 7; 40 Mana Cost) - No Longer has a timer.


    Does...

    Vs All 70's Resist Opponent: 8-12 Damage A spell
    Vs All 0's Resist Opponent: 30-42 Damage A spell

    has a random chance (??%) of "Re-casting" spell.

    Example; an 8 and a 12 damage (20 damage total) from the same cast.


    Comparison - Flamestrike (Lvl 7 Spell)

    VS

    Vs All 70's Resist Opponent: 26-30 Damage A spell
    Vs All 0's Resist Opponent: 90-102 Damage A spell




    OVERALL: For a Lvl 7 spell/40 Mana Cost; is pretty lame.
    Give it a damage buff; or change it back to what it was.


    **All tests done with PVP Cap SDI; 120 Mystic & Focus -- 120 Magery & 120Eval Int **



    Also: Healing stone is awesome. I went from NEVER EVER using it in PVP; to probably using it instead of my pots most of the time now. :)
     
  11. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I personally think all these timers and immunities are way over doing it ! is that not what resist spells is for?
    if this is the way we are gonna go then i would like to see immunities and long timers for weapons (just kidding here trying to make a point)
     
  12. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Some changes that should also be considered.

    I agree Spell Trigger with a 5 minute reuse timer is stupid... why dont moving shot should have something like a reuse timer. And my heavy moving shot fires once every 2.5 seconds full running and hits for 40-50dmg to all 70s, no curse needed. Make it 1 minute or something... considering you also need to recast it, its totally fine.

    Sleep... is a joke now should I remove it from my macro already? 26 sec immunities? When this spell can be broken by a sneeze? Immunities is fine ONLY IF it does NOT break by damage... (even so 26 sec immunity is IMO still insane). This one I will rather have the old one, at least I can use it as a tool to stop zero resist people from running away since it casts way faster than paralyze.

    Purge... I will take the old version any time of the day. The mana increase is nice but considering normal pvpers will have at least 2 buffs (str/dex pot) on them 100% of the time... you will probably never get to the bottom of them for the mana increase to hit. Why? because now it takes you 8 seconds to take one pot off and takes them 1 second to drink another one while hitting you. And the explosion hits as a MAGIC ARROW... are you serious?

    Spell Plague used to be one of my favorite spell now nerfed into oblivion. It's roughly lighting damage and it procs instantly after an offensive action is made... This means you cant even use this spell like strangle as a casting interruption.
    Spell Plague hits for 10dmg (4 explosions max) lasts 8 seconds. No spell interruption value, short duration, little damage.
    Strangle lasts forever capable of doing 100+ of damage full duration (strangle will still ticks more total even if you have 70poison/full stam the entire time) and can interrupt spell casting even if YOU are not attacking the opponent yourself.

    Cleansing Wind IMO wasnt too strong, it does heal you big time 60 to 65 when you are not affected by other things. A lesser poison drops it to 40-45 heal... at deadly it only heals 20-25 (I will assume 10-15 when you are lethal poisoned). I was unable to test if mortal attack decrease the healing effect.

    Enchant weapon needs to last longer... or at least make it cast as fast as before and you dont lose it when you get disarmed.
     
  13. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Yes it has a way too long cast time as it is now. You try to enchant your weapon so you can defend/atack someone and by the time the spell is ready on your weapon you'll be dead or your victim will be 5 screens away from you.

    Spell trigger cooldown should definetely have shorter cooldown, 5 minutes is loooong.

    Sleep immunity? yea 26 seconds is ridiculous.
     
  14. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    Boombastic:

    Where are you getting your information
    Spell plague has no immunity.

    The initial hit does the 8-12 damage and 30-42 (at 0 resists)

    so far I've gotten up to 3 additional explosions each doing a little lesser damage than the previous.
     
  15. I agree completely with the 1st post. I had a feeling when I read the notes Plague would be another one nerfed out of usefulness.

    The healing changes (stone & wind) may be nice, but theres already enough ways to heal and for half (or less) skill points.

    I feel Mysticism is going the way of Spellweaving, only being used for Colossus, like Spellweaving is for WOD. (No, not always, but a lot of the time.)
     
  16. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Plague: 40 mana cost spell should deal more damage. Or drop the mana cost and keep it as it is.
     
  17. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Thanks for the feedback it has been helpful.

    To Clarify Spell Plague.

    Base Damage for Flame Strike is currently 51-55

    Base Damage for Spell Plague Initial hit is 26-30 (Hit Chance 100%)
    Base Damage for Second hit is 20-23 ( Effect Hit Chance 75%)
    Base Damage for Third hit is 15-19 ( Effect Hit Chance 50%)
    Base damage for Fourth hit is 10-13 ( Effect Hit Chance 25%)

    Damage for 1 Hit = 26- 30 (50-54% of Flame Strike at equal level)
    Damage for 2 Hits = 46-53 (91- 96%)
    Damage for 3 hits = 61-72 ( 120 - 141%)
    Damage for 4 hits = 71-85 ( 139 -167 %)

    -------------------------------------------
     
  18. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Logrus, it's nice to see you posting!!

    I hope you still have your kilt and crystal glaive and that you haven't given up your habit of wandering around on the test shard looking for players trying to break stuff.

    :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cailleach

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    Come on in Logrus, the posters are lovely. Mostly!
     
  20. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Concept is great but shouldnt the burst-bility taken into account as well?
    Burst damage kicks the crap out of damage over time.
    Especially in this case you need at least 3 explosions to match a flame strike. It can also be instantly appled/removed cursed/cleansing wind out.

    Please consider increasing the damage so possibly it takes 2 explosions to match or possibly surpass the dmg of a single flame strike and 2 lesser ones just for bonus as you only has 8 second time frame to use it assuming it wasnt removed whatsoever.

    Or keep the damage and raise to proc rate to something like 100/85/70/55 or something closer.

    One big burst is always better than small damage in pulses and especially in this case its not even gurarrenteed like strangle and you have to inflict damage to the victim yourself and it also has no spell disrruption value like bleed and strangle whatsoever.

    Thanks for replying to us, with clearifcation.
     
  21. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Spell plague triggers off any damage the target takes. Does not have to be from the original caster.

    Running around on test I find it pretty effective to hit players with bombard plague combo then spam a while bunch of nether bolts.

    Usually I get at least 2 extra explosions off before it wears out.

    If I'm ganking then I'll just keep stacking plagues. Stacking can keep triggering the explosions while extending the durations.

    I'll run the numbers and see what happens when I adjust them on one of our dev servers.
     
  22. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    have to ask a silly question...for hits 2-4 there is a chance the spell will not go off.. *excluding damage from another player/mob* .. what forms those chances? RNG? Target's resist spells? Resists on armor? RPD? Pot? Apple? Tbox?...
     
  23. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I can tell already I am gonna have some fun with this!
     
  24. Bombastic Fail

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    It used to have a timer; or AKA an immunity.

    And the 0 Resists; means 0 Phys/Fire/Cold/Pois/Energy

    So..
    Vs All 70's Resist Opponent: 8-12 Damage A spell
    Vs All 0's Resist Opponent: 30-42 Damage A spell

    AS OPPOSED TO flamestrikes..

    Vs All 70's Resist Opponent: 26-30 Damage A spell
    Vs All 0's Resist Opponent: 90-102 Damage A spell



    I didn't try hitting the target "multiple" times though to test the various explosions.
     
  25. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Plague is quite the interresting spell then, but how about raising the explotions chances to say:

    1 hit - 100% (initial hit)
    2 hit - 80%
    3 hit - 55%
    4 hit - 30%

    ???
     
  26. Shelleybean

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    From a pvm stand point, the immunity timer on sleep is a big nerf. I prefer the old sleep. If it simply must be changed, can the effect at least last longer? It only lasts for like 5 or 6 seconds it seems.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I did not read anywhere so maybe someone can tell me if they tested the nerfed part in pvm? Is it working as described in pvm? If so maybe if they just made it work how it use to in pvm and modified the pvp aspects (I am still against the change, even from a pvp stand point....there has to be a better way to handle these things)
     
  28. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Ive been doing a little testing on plague, and cant say Id favor the spell over say flamestrike as in the example above.
    From a mage standpoint: The first 75% chanced hit is easy to get off, but the 50% and the 25% rarely happens, and you have to use 3 extra spells to get them to hit and that is only a chance...so all together getting plague to do damage somewhere close to that of flamestrike you have to use alot more then 40 mana.
    However if the plague spell would have lower mana cost then flamestrike or maybe do a little more damage in the initial hit it would be worth the while.

    Might be worth mentioning that I play Europa RP and we dont use magic gear such as LMC or LRC etc so 40 mana isnt easily wasted.
     
  29. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    At the setting currently on TC, I would not use it even if I had LMC/Ultra MR. If I want delayed big burst I would use Flame Strike, if I want instant big nuke Id use hailstorm... 37dmg a pop instantly GUARANTEED EVERY TIME IMMUNE TO APPLE as well... (at same mana cost) is much MUCH better than 15... then 13 then if you are lucky 11 then if you are ultra extra lucky 8 more... ASSUMING you did all procs within 8 seconds... and the total possible damage is not even all that great and your enemy is regening HP the whole time. :stretcher:

    And please when you are looking at the numbers look at the damage vs 70resist since thats what everyone has and we do not have the luxury of ARMOR IGNORE effect nor can we cast on the run for 35+ damage like heavy crossbow... and those figures are already against capped resist.
     
  30. The Purge Magic and Sleep spell nerf is ********...


    Why can I shot people out of Vamp/Wraith form but not shoot ninjas who are redlined out of wolf form...

    Why can't us mystic's get a form spell we can pop into while we are redlined and laugh because they can't cast a big enough spell to kill us because we got 20 extra HP.



    Why can't I keep sleeping someone who uses a Trap Box and you guys put a cooldown on it...Why not put a cooldown on paralyze while your at it

    All the other changes are cool but those 2 spells make not having magic resist so much better...Resist is becoming useless...Resist is going to be like Focus was 1-2 years ago..Completely useless, than you guys will make Resist Spells useable because it will increase throwers damage but 23 1/2 damage...Just another fail nerf by EA
     
  31. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I beg to differ in the point. If they gonna nerf sleep that bad (just like on TC currently) there should be an cooldown time on tbox as well. Tbox is free and instant sleep takes skill and casting time and mana and gets instantly tboxed by ALL PvPers and now they are immune to sleep for TWENTY-SIX seconds?
     
  32. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Testing and running around on test myself.

    Working on the following changes
    Sleep:
    Sleep will be a bit harder to break out of.
    Sleep resistance timers reduced and factor magic resist.

    Purge:
    Reducing purge timer and linking it to magic resist
    If a buff is recast it should be able to be purged again instantly.

    Spell Plague:
    Slight bump to damage in initial and followup explosions.
    Explosion chance increased.
    Time between explosions decreased.





    Purge will not remove animal forms from players.
    This will remain as is.
    Players may be removed from animal form by means of a dismount special move or bola.

    Necro, spell weaving, and mysticism forms cannot be removed by use of special moves.
     
  33. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Well done, when can we expect to test these changes?
    And will this mean if i cast sleep with 120 myst/focus on a target with 120 resist it will be 50/50 chance?
     
  34. Bombastic Fail

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    I am not sure how much you PVP logrus; but purge + sleep was the only "GOOD" was to combat a good ninja/stealther. Because they were so busy running in animal; you knock them out; they smokebomb; they keep trying to run; reveal themselves; then you sleep spam and hope to kill them in the 4 seconds before the next smoke bomb.

    If you want to keep the "no purge from animal form" change it so you CANT smoke bomb when you are slept or paralyze. It's beyond me WHY you can do these two things when slept/paralyze to begin with; but now a stealther is back to being IMMUNE to any form of combat if you can't purge them out of form. So please make it so you can't smoke bomb when paralyzed or slept. It's only fair.

    Again; another scenario; as you said; bolas or dismount.

    "You begin to menacingly swing a bola"; Smoke bomb. Ok they got away.

    *Hits stealther out of form with dismount special* Smoke bomb. Ok they got away.

    **ALSO; I am not sure if you are aware; but there is a huge bug with animal form. If you are RIDING SWIPED out of form; you have NO TIMER to get back in. This needs changed also.**



    And Immunities are still bad IMO. Again; if no other skill has them; Mystics shouldn't.
     
  35. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    *thumbs up*



    Thanks Logrus those changes look for the better, will be testing them when they come to test center asap.

    Now all I want personally is slightly shorter cast time on Enchant, its a spell you most times need fast because you are either atacking or defending against someone rather suddenly, and in rp I need the spell cast before I can do much of anything since im not alowed to use FC or SC weapons. Currently as it is on TC now when the spell is finished casting my oponents are either gone or I am dead.

    With such a long cast time on such a key spell for my offence and defence capabilities the oportunitites to either defend or atack are gone before the spell is finished.
     
  36. Shelleybean

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    Well it looks like more changes coming, but I did do a pvm test on test center. I ran my test on gazers and cylops near the Valor shrine. When I cast sleep, the monsters did not continue to cast spells or come after me. However the effect lasted like 5-6 seconds and then resisted all further sleep attempts. I will run another test after the changes.
     
  37. Bombastic Fail

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    ^ Can we get some word on this post? Either keep the purge animal form in; or no smoke bombing while slept or paralyze please?
     
  38. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    No smoke bombing while paralyzed does kinda makes sense..