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Something for those who claim EA and other gaming companies can't prevent cheating

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Captn Norrington, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    yes. im saying exactly that. really about 5. i could name them but that would obviously get me a ban. those 5 people cause more harm, and cause 90% of the ill effects to the game.

    having "some sort of cheat program" is not the problem. the majority of those who use something has 0 effect on the game. you do not need to ban everyone to fix this. its really not that hard to figure out and Mesanna is just to dense and out of touch to realize how easy fixing the problem is. not to eliminate cheating altogether, because yes it will always be there, but to do a bit of damage control to get a few more years out the game.
     
  2. The Slug

    The Slug Seasoned Veteran
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    There really is no need to list names. Just look at the rares forum and see the same 5 or so players who are selling EM event items on every shard at once. It's not rocket science (Of course all the sellers will always deny everything)
     
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  3. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    thats actually far from true. only 1 of the biggest offenders post there at all. the majority you will never see on stratics as they have bigger behind the scenes deals, websites, etc.

    just because someone has lots of event items doesnt mean they play 10 accounts and cheat. I play 2 accounts. I play 20 shards. so yes me and many others get alot of items, but nothing compared to ones who multibox. and EM items are really just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  4. The Slug

    The Slug Seasoned Veteran
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    I would have said 2 or 3 and no not you. But since I only play one shard and have no interactions whatsoever with any collector,broker, etc I will defer to you on that

    Honestly the only reason I ever look at the rares forum is to try kind of try to keep a running list players I prefer to avoid
     
  5. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    GMs are like cops. Total waste of money till you need one. Then it happens you really need one and you need one right now!
     
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  6. elster

    elster Journeyman

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    The self righteousnous in this thread makes me want to vomit.
     
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  7. The Slug

    The Slug Seasoned Veteran
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    I would bet that any form of ethics, even in a game, would make many want to vomit.

    I had a player tell me once not long ago that since I neither buy nor sell I am not adding to their bottom line so I should just quit. Of course that particular player would be there ready to script loot my castles dry when they fell
     
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  8. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    As a loooooooong time cross shard trader I can tell you that there are 3 posters that I am currently aware of, not just one who round out that offenders list. There are at least 5 botters running between 5-10 accounts per event, which means I am either missing two or else those two use sites other than the ones I know of to sell of their goods. (granted, I was gone for a number of years, but we aren't talking rocket science.)

    The rules being the way they are, this is all I can say. I figure the powers that be can make deductions from here if they want, or even question me directly if they wish, but as far as this conversation going any deeper in public, mums the word from me...
     
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  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i dont disagree with you there, i said 1 major offender. plus there are a few minors on stratics. Yes theres tons of people running many accounts per event. i was only taking into consideration the most detrimental ones to the game as a whole.

    the point is you dont have to ban every cheater, just make people less likely to cheat in the first place. and ban the ones that cause the most harm. most people will keep playing the game, without cheats, if they know their accounts are in jepordy. or will at least scale back to a point where the harm to the overall game in minimalized.
     
  10. 4runnersport

    4runnersport Seasoned Veteran
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    If you ain't 1st your last.
    Actually if you are going to ban 1 cheater ban them all and be completely fair about it.

    I love seeing people post they are going to quit bc of the cheating or they don't care if UO shuts down tomorrow. Been seeing it for years. It's just like king greg said 90%+ people cheat even if its simple as training characters unattended. UO is not going to shut them down no matter how many times you complain (but i do enjoy seeing people complain and get nothing from it)
    Continue on
     
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  11. Lt.Snuggles

    Lt.Snuggles Seasoned Veteran
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    @Smoot
    i'd like to see the names! i wouldn't mind posting them. :)
     
  12. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    I consider them all to be major offenders personally, because these others are responsible for setting the going rates on items. They off the items at 50% retail or less of what they should sell for, just so they can off their excess before someone else sells off their own. This leaves potential buyers quoting wholesalers as price points for what they are willing to pay, and forces other sellers to ask less gold than what the items are worth in order to satisfy the next buyer.

    So...greed has paved the way to how the economy has been shaped today. At one point, we as collectors were accountable for what was going on in the market. Now it is the multibotters who hold our economy hostage, the true collectors are left with little to say about it...
     
  13. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Someone is paying for the game time, Broadsword still gets their end, sounds like a win/win.

    No, what you are talking about is scripting multiple accounts... There's a huge difference between multiboxing and scripting. One of them requires you to press buttons and move your mouse, the other requires that you press play. The argument up until this was about multiboxing software... Which is not illegal. I can't explain it any better than I already have. The software or hardware used to multibox UO or any other game properly is not directly related to or made for the game being played. Scripting programs are generally directly related to UO or the game they are being used for. However, they are generally free/donation funded - making them legally protected from lawsuits via loopholes. Multiple accounts running with x amount of scripts playing for you while afk, is cheating, I never said that it wasn't. Scripting multiple accounts is, however, ok by today's standards within the game as long as you aren't afk(as stated previously by a few people).

    TL;DR
    Scripting multiple accounts is bad, but not what the argument was started over.
    Multiboxing is still legal.
     
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  14. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    I put everything up for 1/4-1/2 Atlantic price, it makes it sell. I don't give a damn about full price, I just want the item out of my inventory fast and something to show for it. I run with 1 other person, I have probably just as much loot as the actual multiboxing folk, nowhere near the amount as multi bots though.. they don't need sleep or work.
     
  15. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i agree with you but this is really a whole other discussion. one i didnt want to get into here on stratics. but yeah its a mess and makes a joke of rares collecting.
     
  16. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Fair enough, *tips hat*
     
  17. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    You shouldn't have to do that Herp, with regard to undercutting yourself.
     
  18. Dimi

    Dimi Visitor

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    Yes, I know, all these questions are relevant and you can be sure they run statistics for pretty much everything, including these issues.
    And you can be sure that since no effective steps were taken regarding cheating, scripting and multiboxing, that means the statistics show their impact is pretty insignificant.
    Again, when you decide what to prioritize and what informed decision to take, regarding the man-hours of your team and when the team presents you with estimates for each task, you make the decision based on the statistics, no matter what their personal feelings are.
    As a Producer, Messana is practically an EA employee. She is obliged to carry out their directives, which they make, again, based on statistics. I'm positive that she raised these questions many times and each time the suits upstairs have asked for statistics. And since statistics are saying you basically don't have to worry about scripters, because, for example:
    1. They are accounts, which pay for subs.
    2. They flood the market with items and make the prices stay low.
    They tell her to instead create new content.

    Imagine the following case:

    You have a fighter and you need a basic suit to craft it. You calculate the resources and then you calculate the amount of time you need to grind them. You check the market for them and you realize they are pretty affordable. Because many of these resources are grinded automatically with scripts and they are plenty. Now imagine the prices of these resources, if real players have to grind them. Seeds of Renewal anyone? If you have 100,000 active players, you will have at least 50,000 miners competing and the prizes will be low. But if you have less...

    This is just one of the examples how a scripter could actually impact the game.
    And how will you close down an RMT web-site, hosted on a private domain, in another country, for example?
    Besides getting the US 6th Fleet to bomb the said county and then the USMC to occupy it, the other legal options are pretty slim...

    That's why you prioritize a new mount in the store.
     
  19. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
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    Did I ever say, that I love you, Dot? You are among the best posters of this board, EVER. And its a shame that "we" are so few and the jerks are so many...
     
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  20. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    they dont run statistics dude. this is UO. they have no way to even get those statistics. how long have you been playing UO?

    how would statistics even represent gameplay? how would they show how many poeple stop playing, stop doing content, because its overtaken by cheating and driving prices so low the actual contents not worth doing. how would statistics even show that.

    i think whatever game you work for is far to different from UO for you to make an educated analysis.
     
  21. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    This is incorrect. anyone whos been around UO for the past 5 years knows this. The ones that are being paid for at all are at a very cut rate.
     
  22. Dimi

    Dimi Visitor

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    You can pretty much make statistics and metrics for everything, believe me.
    And, being in business for 18 years, UO definitely has statistics and metrics.
    The fact that you think they don't have is irrelevant. Everybody makes metrics and statistics and everybody makes decisions based on them.
    All the accounts ever registered are recorded in their database. You can see every day how many and which of them are logging into the game. Much like your guild roster. Your guild roster keeps info for your members login for a looong time. I've seen my guild roster. There are records from year 2007... That's 10 years. So, they keep everything on record, right?
    Each time you make a new boss, for example, you make metrics for him, so you can see how many people run it and deduct if it's interesting or not. How else will you adjust his drop loot, if you don't have metrics, for example?
    Same goes for everything else. Including subs, number of logins from the same IP address... EVERYTHING.
    Must I really explain this to you?
     
  23. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    @Dimi

    yes, you can have statistics about active accounts.
    you cant have statistics about the reasons people quit.
    where are they getting the statistics about how many people have quit specifically, or in part because of cheating?

    where are they getting the statistics about how many people fail to come back specifically because of cheating?

    where are you gettin statistics for how many people pay retail price, vrs how many pay cut-rate black market price?

    this is what concerns UO. not how many people are attacking a new boss or number of active accounts. thats pretty much irrelevant.

    with all due respect, your analyzing the situation from the perspective of a modern, typical game. UO is far from that.

    Example: UO is worth far more, probably 10 times the current profits from subs simply for the name. which is why EA has never given them up. theyve been offerred huge payouts from Richard Garriot himself, and others, who wanted to buy the game.

    Would your game be bought for say 10 times what it takes in simply for the name?

    With all due respect, I feel you have too little understanding of the intricacies of UO, what makes the UO economy vastly different from other games (because all items are tradeable / sellable) as well as the value of it profit vrs name value, to make any relevant analysis of the situation.
     
    #173 Smoot, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  24. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    ask 1000 people who used to play UO the major problems with it, and one of the top 3 responses is the cheating. just look at the discussion on the steam greenlight page if its still there.

    im sorry but saying "the statistics say that cheaters are profitable" is just absurd. its one of the main reasons why players leave UO AND one of the main reasons they dont come back.

    there is no way that i know of to get statistics for that type of thing. Why someone quits, and Why someone doesnt come back.

    current numbers, and current statistics are the least valueable thing in UO. only an idiot would base decsions for Ultima Online off that type of extremely basic information.
     
    #174 Smoot, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  25. Dimi

    Dimi Visitor

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    You are probably correct. It is possible I don't know the intricates in UO.
    But I surely know how decisions are made in EA, which is a modern business, don't you agree?
    No, you can't have a metric for why people have quit. You are saying that EA keeps UO out of some kind of sentiment? Then why don't they do something about the name they care about?
    Which is it? Does EA care about UO and does nothing or EA does nothing, because they don't care? But if they don't care and UO is not profitable, why do they keep UO?
    We all got very emotional, I think.
    But for me it's simple - EA runs the numbers, they see they get money for the things BS make in the game and they keep prioritizing BS to keep making the things that bring money and subs.
     
  26. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Poobah
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    You´re most likely right.

    'Tis always funny to see the cheaters over on the HOT boards complain about how dead PvP is. Too stupid to realize that they are the reason for it.
    Ha, such morons... :coco:
     
  27. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    EA cares about UO as a trophy. i think everyone can agree on that. No, i dont think they care about direct profitability from subs, and would probably want to keep the name even it were losing direct profits. especially for EA because both pofits or losses from UO are insignificant to their overall budget.

    To EA, hitting the 20 year mark and that the game is open is all they care about. Because lets be honest when people talk about UO, even after it closes, they will say "yeah i remember that game i played it in the 90s it was great", and the cheating will probably be all but forgotten. the next meaningful number, 25, is something they might not even be concerned about. To EA UO is an extra that if 0 effort can be put in, while reaping the benefits of the name its worth it to them.

    The discussion here actually concerns players. those who want to keep playing, the reasoning for what keeps the game open has nothing to do with EA because they would probably be just as happy if it closed at 20 yrs vrs 25. that trophy would still add about the same amount of value to their record.
     
  28. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    If you close a UO account, you do have an opportunity in the account management system to indicate why you're closing it. I've always been curious, however, about whether Broadsword gets that info or if it goes directly to someone at EA. It seems to me that EA, not Broadsword, still has control over the account management system.
     
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  29. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Sage

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    Yes there is an exit survey if you close an account, but it's often out-dated and whatever game you are leaving to play isn't on their list! Not sure if there is anything on the survey about cheating/scripting, it's a while since I did the survey.
     
  30. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    OUCH!!!!! LOL
     
  31. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Not everyone over there is a cheater. It is the UO Atlantic Boards btw. But hey, thanks for the shameless plug none the less.
     
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  32. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    "Im an old school UO player and agree with what people are saying. Regardless,if UO was on Steam, I would play it. I think the biggest problem with the game now is it just doesn't have a player base, which Steam would definitely bring to it."

    "have a killer account that i have left behind but im not worried about it... its time to just move on..."

    "Actually I don't expect UO to be a F2P game, but it's too expensive. Many UO players now don't have time to play everyday. However, we still have to pay for it everyday. Now we have a lot of choice. I myself have PS4. Most of my PS4 games only have to pay once. Of course, PSN Plus is not free, but it's relatively cheep. Therefore, I think uo need to change its strategy.."

    "Two years and no interaction with the community. What a great company"

    "Current servers are unplayable from any new players (except if you join immediately a guild and they will give you all you need)..because over-itemization and inflated economy (due wrong design decisions in the past years) killed this balance.
    A world where everyone will start from scratch, new players can craft and trade low-level things and enjoy all dungeons, will be a blasting experience. Nowdays all dungeons are empty on official servers now except the high levels - and it's pointless to farm on lower ones, the loot you get is totally trash and doesn't worth a thing to existing players."

    "In Turkey, this game left its place to private servers because of the monthly subscription. "

    "Its still a fun game but compared to all those others out there it is NOT worth the monthly fee."

    "Hope fully Ultima Online maybe change subscription model to 1 paid time price. It sure Ultima online have a great for ever time, if game remove subscription I dare to pay 69-89$ for great game like this !"

    "I wish I could play this again with my friends, but not going for a subscription model!"

    "Pre-Tram this game was awesome. It's on life support now and is neglected."

    "This game doesn't need to be "resurect"ed as it's still going. It's just been turned into crap that has no reseblance of the eras people remember, and "BS Games" is just a downsized downsized EA "

    "If this game went F2P then I think it would see a big revival and a return of many of its previous players while also attracting the next generation of MMO lovers."

    Ope, i'm on page 11 and not one mention of cheating being the issue here.... Just for ****s and giggles i'll go all the way to page 99 and see how many times cheating is brought up. Personally I think you live in an echo chamber and those 5 people you think should be banned, I question how many of those are in direct competition with you and your friends activities on other forums.
     
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  33. elster

    elster Journeyman

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    Get outta here with your evidence and facts, we only make blind assumptions on this board.
     
  34. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    "Apr 27, 2014 @ 1:11pm
    Meanwhile; Stratics are content to continue burying their head in the sand and think that leaving things just as they are, or by making small additions the game will suddenly revive from the ashes.
    Face it guys, your ideas and not wanting to mess with the status quo is why UO continues to hemorrhage players and has UO on a short timer before it dies for good."

    It's funny because there are 3 people over on the steam page whining about cheating/duping/the state of the game, but no one else even brings it up. And they go onn and onnnn for pages. And even reply to peoples comments about missing the game. I wonder if they are friends of yours smoot.

    L'original
    casual dad

    One other guy... Forgot to write down his name. These guys are on like very single page just spreading the hate.

    Anyways, Page 50. Decided to stop. Here is my rough tally by the time I factored out the 3 stooges constantly trying to drag the cheating/scripting into every response.

    Graphics/client: 8
    # players: 2
    Cost/want f2p: 42
    Mismanagement(Not mentioning cheating): 16
    Era: 17
    Cheating/scripting/duping: 3
    Moving on to newer games: 1
    Investment to get caught up: 3
    Fresh Isolated Server: 5
    Bring back power hour: 1

    98 Things players mentioned were why they left or what would bring them back to the game. 3 of them brought up cheating and kept trying to shove it down everyone elses throats.
     
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  35. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Sorry, I didn't realize when I copied and pasted from steam it attached links to their steam profiles.
     
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  36. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Poobah
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    I find it funny that whenever someone complains about cheating it´s always the same people that feel they need to post against them in some sort of defensive matter.
    Makes you wonder why... :rolleyes2:
     
  37. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Because if no one chimes in to point out errors like smoot trying to link you to steams greenlight as evidence that cheating is why people left, then this forum just becomes an echo chamber of dwindling players.
     
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  38. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Oh i've read the thread, and pray something that drastic is coming to the game. Like every other player though, I have concerns for the "rollout" . We want more people playing on OSI, but like you were saying with housing. It could become a large issue.

    You can't compete with Freeservers while offering extreme limitations.
     
  39. elster

    elster Journeyman

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    yea screw facts! spread all the false info in the world as long as it meets your own personal agenda!!!
     
  40. 4runnersport

    4runnersport Seasoned Veteran
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    True but still fun to watch at times
     
  41. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    I don't undercut myself... I sell at the price the item is actually worth(based on time spent acquiring it/rarity), **** inflation. I'm on a small shard & basic drops from peerless don't move if they are priced at the inflated Atlantic prices... But people will buy it on the cheap & go move it on Atlantic and make a profit. Sounds like a win/win because I don't have to transfer, still get some cash, and someone else gets some too.
     
  42. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah. I'd say no housing or limit it to 7x7, allow at least 110 scrolls to be used with the option to buy the ability for higher level scrolls to be used on both a per character and per account basis, give access to everything up to ML for free but charge for SA onwards. Has to be limited but not so limited they can't do anything worth doing before subscribing.
     
  43. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    You make blanket accusation against a guild that has nothing to do with a forum or more specifically...cheaters, and then you find it funny when someone shows up to call you out on it?

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but you were standing in one snowflake.
     
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  44. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Inflation is caused by people underselling the very basis for the currency...rares in the case of UO. If people sold ALL rares for 1/4 of what they are worth, the effect is goods would cost 400% more...its simple sandbox economics. Cause and effect sir.

    While you might think "f*** inflation", this is the type of stuff that causes it. Just a thought for you to consider...
     
  45. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Inflation is because there's an obscene amount of currency that's still growing while the population shrinks

    That's all there is to it
     
  46. PaulCH

    PaulCH Journeyman

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    Since you brought it up, I was kind of wondering how much money there is in the global economy. I would include all shards since you can transfer GPs between shards. Have we reached 100 million platinum? What % of the money is likely on Atlantic at any given time? Anyone have any guesses, educated or otherwise?
     
  47. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    When Draconi torched houses the stated they wiped TRILLIONS of gold and the spigot has never been turned off so I would say yes we have passed the 100P P and that is just on the US, euro and Aust shards. Atl prob has the most gold but as easy as it is to move there is a lot on the other US Shards and no telling how much is on the Asian shards.
     
  48. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Gold represents around 10-20% of the currency in this game. The other 80-90% consists of items with traditionally stable value. Until recent years, those items kept their value, and the market stayed steady. Then the bots came...
     
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  49. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Then the bots came? What items are you talking about?
     
  50. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    An interesting thread with many good arguments, I have nearly replied myself several times, however, as I have found that those in the
    Ivory Tower take absolutely no notice at all of people who care passionately about UO and thus allow the game to fall further into the province of the cheats, I will refrain from p*****g in the wind as i really detest wet feet.