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Something is off.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UOKaiser, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I don't know, I've noticed strange things. Prices on almost everything has droped to gold pennys. While me and others and well most of UO have 100's of millions and more, prices on things have gone to almost newbie status. It's just weird, vendors have being disapearing,merchants have being disapearing,vender malls and houses from luna to the boomdocks to ter-mur have gone empty,etc. This is on the most populated shards.
    What's going on? What happened lately is there a dupe? No market?

    Something is definetely weird. I mean hey me and others will remain extremly wealthy I guess thats ok Uo wise, but the new merchants won't get anywhere so the poor remain poor and the middle class will get poorer hmm mimicks real life don't you think. But the balance is off all sudden.

    Anyway any ideas? Something I missed? Hoping someone might have more light on this than I do.
     
  2. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    You're just noticing something's wrong now?
     
  3. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    Um, no.
     
  4. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No i noticed things slowly but all of sudden it hit me hard today when i found a luna vender selling resources at practicaly half price. I bought them all out. Was at least 200-300mil worth of resources but all I payed for was no more than 70mil. Then I looked around luna and saw alot of other things cheaply. POF which was just 200k less than a week ago is suddenly back to 150k in mass bulk with no change in anything at all. So am wondering is there a mass effort in cheapening others efforts by a group of players or a dupe or has the market drop rapidely without a external change lately. Or has the market finaly collapsed in itself and just heading on a down trend where the most powerful items and most useful items will be worth practicaly nothing while us with the gold will be able to not even dent our funds and buy the whole shard out when ever we wish.

    Really don't know how this will end. Or if this just temporaly untill these players run out of stock unless it's a dupe and they will never run out.
     
  5. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    It's called supply and demand, read up on it sometime...
     
  6. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Well duh. is there way more supply than there is demand. Is there a infinite supply and no demand that's my question. There hasn't being a change in any mechanic in the last couple of days that am aware of. So what in the last week effected everything
     
  7. ProZac

    ProZac Seasoned Veteran
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    Pretty much the outcome of everyone being rich and demand for things being low. The people selling bulk items generally are scripters. I mean, at this point the only real thing to spend massive gold on is rare/unobtainable items, but even the rares market has been trashed for a while.

    You have to ask yourself what items in the game are actually disappearing, thus creating the need for more. Crafting materials before used to go toward BODs for runic tools. Now that imbuing is out, a lot of people don't really care for runics. Other resources such as potions, which have their market and keep the reagents selling may be selling less due to more and more inactivity and people not really needing to refill their kegs. Other resources used for skill gain are only in demand when new players are coming to the game that need to work skills. The flow has been off for a while and this has been the effect, and with time it will only get worse as the game really has no money sinks.

    The amount of gold in circulation is obscene. I've alone stockpiled close to 4 billion without a ton of effort. I ended up selling it just because there was literally nothing in the game I wanted anymore. Ten years ago having even a few million was a feat and there was always something to spend it on.
     
  8. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I don't know, Kaiser.
    I've posted several times lately, and some others have too, that UO was really losing ground fast, from appearances. About a month ago I noticed the loss of many, many vendors. All the places outside of Luna where there used to be vendors, they were just gone. There are few spots on my shard left where anyone is trying to sell anything, other than Luna, the road south from Luna, and Zento.
    Away from these, almost all the vendors have disappeared.

    I think UO is dying. There's no one left to buy things. The only ones left are the ultra rich like you, and the few others who don't play enough to be able to afford those prices.

    I've been expecting something to shake out as far as all the items on vendors. The cost, with no to few sales, can't be justified.

    This is why I've been on a rant against powergamers lately. It's killing UO. The spread has gone way too far.
     
  9. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    How about you Siege players anything different in your market over there?
     
  10. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    No Trammel =:heart:
     
  11. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    So could this be it? Is there no more middle ground players to keep the balance between me and the poorer players? The way a poorer player can make gold to become in the middle or rich is to sell there wares to richer players. So do you think because the poorer players don't have goods to sell to the richer players and therefore they can't get richer themselves means that there are no middle ground players anymore. I know imbuing and the ease of players getting what they want cheaply was the first strike in this economic system. Which would account with the lack of venders everywhere. Does this sound plausable?
     
  12. I haven't been able to afford those high prices for a long long time. I find it boring to gold farm so I do other things. If things get cheap enough I may start buying however I am also time limited so I can't be too bothered to go looking all over the entire UO for items that are within my price range. Shopping is also time consuming and boring
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No,No you still have a market. Has goods that were pricer started selling cheaper all of the sudden on venders? I knew a good few players that used to play Siege only for the market as you can sell things and transfer that gold to production at a 1:10 rate.
     
  14. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Ive noticed A LOT less players the last couple months.
    I'm not selling as much stuff as frequently as I used to on
    my vendors
     
  15. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Yes, because people are quitting UO...

    Goes back to what i said in my first statement...supply and demand...

    I'm guessing it's because of EA's great customer service?
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Thats the thing most people iin order to afford these things would just resell. That's the main way i did it. You don't need to farm for gold you don't even need more than 20minutes a day. Just buy cheap sell high thats all then go about your day. Because of this many of us will be fine. Though i love being a crafter and doing all those side things like alchemy etc.. So this hurts them as they are not getting the proper compensation for there hard trouble. Are they eventualy doomed? I wonder.
     
  17. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    This is sad to hear. If siege market is also tanking like that. This is going to be tough. As usually even when the production shards are having a down streak siege market still stays strong.
     
  18. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Being "rich" is UO means nothing, if there is no UO...
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    How about the Asian shards. I don't know too much about there markets but anybody know how they doing?
     
  20. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    You ever watched that Titanic movie?
     
  21. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Remember in the end when that "rich" guy sank with the Titanic...i wonder how all the "richness" helped him?
     
  22. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Exactly. Us non-powergamers don't use all the sites and tools that powergamers do, so it's a lot harder. Someone told me about a site that listed all the items for sale in Luna, what vendors they were on, search tools, all that. Hell, I don't even know what to search for, this game has gotten so complicated. You have to do in depth research just to know what you need, or what can help you. There's things in this game I don't have a clue about.
    And I wouldn't spend my time doing that if I had the time.

    Recently I started making and selling Dyes for money to try to advance myself. After about a month of doing nothing else, I made some money. Not nearly enough. I might be able to afford one major thing. And I wasn't enjoying my game play. Why was I doing this? Don't get me wrong, I don't want doing dyes to be easier. And doing some once in a while is even fun. But not all the frikin' time.

    And today, in these events, I'm still dying and losing money, losing ground faster than I'm gaining it. I still rarely get looting rights on the boss's at events. They had to do the Blackrock explosion thing to help the rest of us have a chance at the boss items. That's a big problem.

    So, all the money has flowed uphill. It's become stagnant. There's no middle ground for trades skills. And you have to go far beyond GM now to get where you can make competitive profits. And you also need to harvest or gain top end resources at a rate that's set to balance with scripters.

    Bring on a classic shard.
     
  23. I am a crafter who gets basically zippola from other players. It don't matter. I don't need to buy items. 20 minutes of boring play every day to make gold that I don't need? This would be subtracted from my 30 minutes to 60 minutes that I play every day.
     
  24. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I mean of course you will have to enjoy what you do for it. I came back a couple of years ago to the game with only 1 mil in my bank and nothing else. With my knowledge and ambition I had 100's of millions in less than 6 month. The more gold I had the easier it was to get more. But Im a merchant in heart and thats what I enjoy. i understood that the gold that was out there was immersuarable but it was had by the players. I came to understand in order to rebuild myself I had to find ways for those players to give me there gold for my services and products. But then how could I get so much products to be able to have loyal customers and constant service. Well i started recruting newer players for there services then buying other players and reselling the products at higher rates. I sold my products and exclusive service to pvp players and there guilds. Provided prompt service and so eventually am where i am now. it was very accomplishing goal and feel very honorable in my pursuit
     
  25. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    All that sounded real sweet...

    SCRIPTING FTW!

    P.S. Prodo Duping FTW too...

    I honestly can't see how you CAN'T be rich on a prodo shard when you got cuddle me softly trammel...
     
  26. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    This looks like to be the center of the trouble. Your dyes for the amount of work you do should be worth more so you can move up the ladder. Too many players decide to do there own so more supply and less demand the price plummets. Though it takes time to raise these plants so unlike other things this should be worth alot more than they are now. This of course is not for the rich players to remain rich this is for the poor players to get rich. The less a rich player has to pay for a product the better for them. The more a poor player can sell there product the better for them.
     
  27. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Prodo duping ruins the economy completely bringing prices to nothing making everything cheap. Scripting we dealt with it. I buy and resell there cheap products but they are limited to time unlike duping.

    Remmeber the difference in gold between siege and prodo. If you have 10mil total gold in siege means you have 100 mil total gold in production. If you have 1mil total in sige means 10 mil and if you have 100mil in siege means you have 1billion in production. So most seige players are richer than most production players if they ever decide to move shards.

    This is why many merchants love siege economy as long as you teamed up with a strong guild there you can be rich everywhere else.
     
  28. Originally I was a merchant and a craftsman for my main source of income. Now I do various things none of which involve much buying or selling. I used to have vendors in Felucca long ago selling runes and armor and weapons.... it wasn't a great living but supplemented my other income well enough. With the advent of BOD system I found myself unable to keep up with the Jones's. I don't play enough hours to get enough BODs to keep up so I quit making items for others and my characters became crafters for each other. My bowcrafter makes bows for my archer, my smith makes axes for my bowcrafter, my smith and tailor make armor for all. However I enjoy going through the motions. I don't enjoy stocking a vendor or buying shopping around for items to purchase so I do very little of that. I maybe purchase something from a vendor once a month or less. I do enjoy crafting even if just for myself. I think a way to have a better economy is to create a ingame auction system (like ebay but in game). Items can be placed for sale and bids made and items purchased through an ebay like interface. This would allow the poor players a chance to get in on the market and the rich players would have to outbid the others and this would result in a more fair marketplace.
     
  29. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I think it's a combination of things:

    • There are fewer players than there used to be. All you have to do to verify this is look around and see all the empty housing spots and the drop-off in posting here and on other forums.
    • The people who trained up Imbuing early have mostly finished making suits for themselves and guildmates.
    • People who still have suits to make but don't necessarily have tons of gold (either never had it or used it all up training Imbuing and/or making a few uber suits) are now spending their time gathering resources themselves instead of buying them from others.
    • Returning players or new players saw the outrageous prices and, if they didn't quit right off the bat, figured out they could gather resources themselves to train Imbuing and make their own suits. Or they figured out that you can still play and enjoy UO even if you have what the rich players consider sub-par gear.

    I think there has been a huge drop-off in players, but if you've been sticking to Luna, EM events, and other "hot spots," you probably didn't notice it. I think this drop-off has been caused by a number of things:

    1. The real life economy has made online gaming subscription fees a luxury many can no longer justify.
    2. The limitations/restrictions placed on trial accounts over a year ago may have finally made scripting too difficult or expensive for some operations.
    3. Scroll binders made getting power scrolls and stat scrolls too difficult and expensive for returning and new players who chose to play on the smaller shards. As a result, these people may not have stuck around.
    4. The global chat system may have horrified, annoyed, or disgusted some people to the point they played less and less and eventually just gave up on UO or went on hiatus.
    5. The unchecked cheating in Fel horrified, annoyed, or disgusted others to the point where they played less and less and eventually gave up on UO or went on hiatus.
    6. PvPers who didn't necessarily want to be in factions (perhaps because of the skill loss period) felt forced to join up just so they could remain competitive.
    7. The rampant materialism and greedy, unhelpful attitude of many (i.e., "if I help you, there will be less for me or you might get something instead of me") wore down some people to the point they no longer want to play and continue to be exposed to it.
    8. People who prefer not to spend RL cash on the game (other than to pay their subscription fee) may be disappointed and disillusioned by the apparent trend towards selling desirable in-game items for cash through the gamecodes store instead of providing them as veteran rewards or holiday gifts.
    9. Some people who only have time to play UO for a few hours each week may be disappointed and disillusioned by the many new and desirable items that have been introduced into the game that are very time consuming to try to obtain through your own efforts and terribly expensive to purchase from others.
    10. Some people who were initially excited by the possibilities of the EM program may have become disillusioned by either (a) EM items being "too common," or (b) EM items getting far more attention than the stories or roleplaying.
    11. Some people may just be weary of global events that affect all shards putting entirely too much of players' focus on obtaining items instead of interacting with each other.

    If you notice a theme here, I think it is that for some people, UO has become entirely too focused on items in the game instead of truly interacting with other players, and this focus has made it difficult for those people who don't want to embark or stay in a never-ending item chase to continue to enjoy the game.
     
  30. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - So is this why you tend to strongly defend any complaints about cheating by way of illegal scripting?

    Illegal scripting also disrupts the economy for the same reason you are against duping... because they are not limited by time as much as legitimate players are.
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The problem is the extreme powergamer structure that UO has evolved into. It's left no middle ground. You're either a very successful powergamer with a masters degree or better in UO, or you're a peon like me, or you are an ex UO player like most others.
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Nah it's the reason I don't condem them. I have way too many good friends that lead community events rplaying events give out items, run auctions, help out players and they script. I can still buy and sell if nobody script just for higher amounts of course which would be a good thing as long as there still players left but I will miss my friends some that was still here after I returned to UO.

    Though the market is extremly uncoordinated right now and it troubles me. Many of the other wealthy players are probably having a ball right now buying the highest end things for nothing while the strugging players are working hard to sell there things for nothing. So I look at things not for the near future or for my own benefit but for what could be later. Maybe this is just passing but I don't know if the poorer players don't find a reliable product they can sell for higher amounts they will always remain poor and the market will continue to stagnate. I hope am wrong.
     
  33. I really hate to be the person that says "I told you so"...


    ...so I will simply post no more on this subject.
     
  34. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I haven't noticed any lapse in traffic at my vendors outside of Umbra on Atlantic. My shop is doing quite well. However, we advertise regularly and do our best to flux our prices with the economy. It helps as well being on Atlantic. I'm not sure on the other shards, but Atlantic seems to be thriving from my point of view.

    I'm not a powergamer and quite financially comfortably in-game. You don't have to spend a ton of time to make gold. You just have to know the economy and find your nitch.
     
  35. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    UOKaiser, I don't mean to be rude, but all I can think of when I read about this concern of yours for "poorer players," is that what you're actually worried about is the possibility that you will soon run out of poor schmucks that you can buy from at rock-bottom prices and then turn around and sell their stuff to the rich players at your jacked-up prices.
     
  36. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You are very right in all your points. I think a combination of all these factors have being a small but steady inreasing plague in UO. The items though i think that actually might of helped but the amount of the same items have increased steadily. Though if rare items remained rare and there were things to shoot for also more player interaction would of being key to hold back this decline that has increased since the last expansion eventualy hitting luna which i came to like a hard hammer hit on the head today when I bought that from that vender. It started with 1 then 2 venders undercutting everyone else all of sudden everything has gone south.
     
  37. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No. I can buy from someone selling something at 2 gold pieces and sell at 3 it doesn't effect resellers like myself. If the whole market became valorite hammers at 10k gold I could find someone selling it at 9k and sell it at 10k. So this doesn't effect me. Though because I do have gold I could get out of the market all toghether and buy 5million valorite hammers at 1k each. So as items become cheaper the more I can afford. But because am a crafter and do manual work myself as well I could understand how someone doing the same work will be pretty much at a dead end if they don't have plenty of gold themselves. They be doing way too much work to produce results for the amount I would buy there items for.

    Therefore eventually killing the vender system as everyone will just do there own thing and forget about interaction with other player services and products.
    Want a super suit do it your self,want a great pet do it yourself,want dyes do it your self,want anything in uo easily do it your self. It would be such a drastic change to the way UO developed. Not sure if these results would be better or worse.

    This will probably make me move to Siege because of the 1 character system. But if siege is also doing bad then options are getting limited.
     
  38. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I might know your shop. I haven't passed by that area in some time even had a little small house near by your umbra road and entrance a while back ago gave it to a fellow guild member. But in Atlantic is were I noticed this. Then again me and members of my circle do keep a eye out on things like this.Im going to pass your shop and the shops around the area to check at what rate your venders have being going at. I used to pass by those shops alot before always found good deals there.
     
  39. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Like others (I think I saw Kallie Pigeon mention similar) I have practiced this for awhile. Because I can, because I like seeing my characters improve, because I know I'm not contributing any gold and effort to cheaters... Unforunately I have given up vending because most of my time is spent playing my micro-UO and improving my stuff on my own and on my own time. But I still jump around and have fun with others in UO when I get tired of achieving the unlimited number of accomplishments I see possible with my characters. I guess my point is that I find myself having fun being largely self-sufficient when playing UO these days... but having some fun with others in UO is still fun as well.
    I guess another point is that I'm not directly contributing to the economy of UO very much... because I have been subscribing to self-sufficiency moreso, these days.
    ;)
     
  40. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Ok I have to ask again cause I just saw something and now I have a life time supply. If it happens again well..
    Did this new patch introduced a returning dupe? Anybody seen anything weird in that manner? Im I over paranoid?
     
  41. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Maybe someone is cashing out...
     
  42. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Sounds like what I've been doing too. I like the challenge and I've always hated being overly dependent on other people.
     
  43. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I see your point of view. People like me that find market economy and merchanting more fun than other activities in Uo run into many circles and become friends with many different people which we ourselves have to learn to deal with all situations that occur in competition and friendship. So avoiding people because of what they do is usually not a option and condeming them is also not a option we learn to live with them. In the possitive note we like the people we around cause they are essentualy friendly and very hospital with others. I do alot of things alone but when someone comes and asks me if I can help them i never turn them down. Other things you need others to help with especially micro-economy. There so little people in UO and I embrace most of them even the ones I don't agree with and don't agree with me in game or the forums.

    I understand many things in UO and how things are accomplished. The only people I could never get along with are scammers and griefters as there sole purpose is to ruin other people enjoyment and usually never engage in helping other players ever. Hell I even get along with someone who stoled from me once. He put alot of effort into it.
     
  44. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I hope you right. In that case I can continue buy from them and tell my alliance to do so as well. But I won't be able to keep up if it's never ending.
     
  45. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Aye said I.
    - Aye, as well (as long as we're talking about getting pickpocketed in UO ;)).
     
  46. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    Um, did you take into consideration that Rares Fest is going on over on Pac so a lot of Vendors probably transferred for a few weeks? I have seen A LOT of Japanese players on Pac and quite a few from Atlantic, Chessy and others.
    The price market has gone up and it's just ridiculous. Also, the more people that see collecting things like essences and other imbuing items is profitable, more people will go out and get them and compete for the best prices. It's not hard to go farm these items so asking for less is completely normal and still profitable. My buddy went to the Abyss and stocked up on over 100 essences in like an hour and a half last night.
    As for players leaving, they come and go. But I've seen a lot of returning players as of late and not many people leaving... maybe just cutting down on the daily intake of UO. The market used to be better but long time players are moving on in life and don't have time to play anymore I guess. Prices have hiked with rares fest on Pac, honestly, and there's lots to buy.
     
  47. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    Wait, did you just ****ing ***** about the market and then turn around to say duping/scripting is okay?
    Because guess what? That leads to the market crashes and items becoming totally invaluable in the game.
    Wow, talk about a troll.
     
  48. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    I dropped my 3mil a week vendor on ATL and took all of my items over to Pac.
     
  49. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Um where did i say duping was ok? You do not have a concept about the market at all and looks like you trying to bait me into a fight.
     
  50. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I accounted rare fest. Though explains only some of it. The emptyness of venders being happening increased rate on all shards including pacific. Many empty venders and empty houses still in there shopping areas. Taking a walk there now there is some houses filled but much less than a month ago.