1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Sorta Disturbed

Discussion in 'UHall' started by phoenix11, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. phoenix11

    phoenix11 Guest

    Ive noticed for Awhile now that people in some guilds Being whatever age, Seem to, Not think for themselve's, But openly admit they just do what there told, This should worrie everyone, The implications seem to be extremely far reaching.
     
  2. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    0
    In real life maybe, but in the game, what implications are there?

    Group activities often require leadership. You take five people off to the Twisted Weald and watch what happens if they all decide to "think for themselves". Working as a group is essential in some circumstances, and it's much easier to have one person deciding what's gonna happen then it is to have everyone making up their own minds independantly.
     
  3. You definitly need leadership, i've been with a group of people that didnt want to take leadership advice and it fails, but then i've been with a group that will take leadership and its a massive success, so in-game you definitly need someone to tell you what to do in special circumstances :thumbsup:
     
  4. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    you can pretty much get away with playing without any command structure in trammel but when pvping, the group requires leadership or outrageously overwhelming numbers.
     
  5. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,191
    Likes Received:
    36
    Not if you want to fight the high end (Peerless, champ spawn, Doom) monsters.

    One person who doesn't follow orders frequently gets entire groups slaughtered.

    Now quit trying to make this a Tram vs. Fel thread. Good leadership is required wherever groups play together.
     
  6. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    People who do what they're told are a boon, in any gaming group, as much as someone who can lead is.
    If no one leads, then the group lacks direction. If no one follows, then the direction is lost.
    Although, on the other hand... A group lead by an idiot is bound to fail. A group of followers with no leader might not accomplish much, but they won't fall apart at the seams.

    In a game, the last thing you should be worrying about is whether people just do as they're told.
     
  7. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    PvP and some kinds of RP are the only thing in UO that requires leadership.
    PvP to be efficient. United for more power.
    RP : some kinds of RP need a structure, like orders of knight etc, and you need a leader to give some coherence to the bunch of egomaniacs who all want to have the best story told ever.

    For PvE, the great majority of UO is solo. You can have a party leader who can say "let's go to fel dungeons now for paragons" and "ok time to split the share and go to bed". But that's it.
    Champ spawn and Peerless require absolutely no leader. People just have to know how it works and do their thing. When you don't know yet, you ask what to do, but you don't need commands to do a champ spawn or a peerless.
     
  8. Llams Anit

    Llams Anit Guest

    Lead follow or get out of the way
     
  9. You do if the people haven't hunted together before, so each knows what their individual responsibilities are. Who does the luring, who x-heals who, who removes curses or dispels revs, etc.

    I didn't realize so many were so ignorant of how groups work on the blue side of the gate. A leader is necessary if teamwork is to happen, regardless of what you're doing.
     
  10. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Guest

    Peerless do require good followers when those people are new to the group - I can't say how often we took along some other person to do peerless and we explained what they had to do, but nooooo... why follow people who have done that peerless easily over 100 times? *rolls eyes*
    Even now we sometimes still check with eachother - "I'll heal, ok?" "Sure, and I'll cure"... even such short conversations help keep the death rates at peerless (and most other places) down to a minimum.

    What annoys me the most though is when people don't take any orders, at all - often those are meant in a good way, to help the group do better (or even to improve ones tactics), but many think it's offensive if they let someone join and that person asks others to do stuff like let the tamer attack first in doom so that it doesn't result in an archer running like crazy (and most likely dying if nobody interferes) because he/she attacked first.

    If the players are experienced, it's ok to hardly use any orders, but if they're not (or used to doing everything solo) it is essential to have orders and people who follow them.
     
  11. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    26
    Some problems need cooperation. Cooperation needs leadership. period.

    Nobody is forced into a group that wants to achieve something difficult in a cooperative way. Anybody can try it on his/her own. Most probably, they will fail.
     
  12. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm their leader...can someone tell me where they went....Please!

    If fighting with a group while getting keys, it is still important to follow directions. Nothing was more frustrating than tring to get peerless keys with new people that didn't pay attention. "Don't run through the green swamy areas!" Oh, look here comes little Johnny running through every single puddle yelling in vent about all the spawn. "Don't step on the carpet in the Citadel...wait where's little Johnny." Little Johnny's yelling in vent about getting chased by a pack of ninja's as he's running circles in the lobby, hitting every single carpet. Yeah, sometimes just following orders isn't a bad thing. As for little Johnny, he's playing WOW...best $30 investment the guild ever made!

    I remember when ML first came out and how "hard" it was getting peerless keys with a group and with all the other people running around. Now people get the keys and do the peerless by themselves or with a small group of people. When SA comes out, the whole process will be repeated, until people start figuring things out and telling people "this is how you do it". Hopefully they will listen.
     
  13. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    16
    I agree with the OP only if we lived in an Utopia. The best life lesson a young person can take away form this game is: "Yes, you will be following someone's orders the rest of your life." EXCEPTIONS: you can become fabulously rich, or live on a deserted island or become a parasite and feed off the underbelly of Society.

    The time to "question" is before an action/event - and/or afterwards. If you disagree with the Party or Leader's decisions, you can choose to decline or leave.

    A good follower is as rare as a good leader, and is valued as such. Not only is the leader expecting you to do your assigned task, but your fellow followers are relying on to do such.

    The individaul "chose" to subscribe to UO, "chose"to play on a particular shard, and can "choose" to join a party or guild or faction or alliance. That is the individual's "right" - however when joining any such social organization, the individual now also has a "duty" as well.
     
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,380
    Likes Received:
    4,702
    OK... But I draw the line at big buckets of Kool-aid...:p
     
  15. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    I play with a group of friends who all work together and no one tells anyone what to do.
     
  16. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    1
    You probably all know what what needs to be done and by whom, and have all played together long enough to trust that the other members will do their part.

    Maybe the OP could clarify some of the "Not think for themselve's, But openly admit they just do what there told, This should worrie everyone, The implications seem to be extremely far reaching." statement. Me thinks there is something more there than someone just being told to go do something and off they go to perform the task.
     
  17. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,535
    Likes Received:
    1,927
    It could be that the people who are saying they just do what they're told make that statement because they don't feel like discussing with outsiders how their guild operates or what some of the people in their guild do.
     
  18. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    0
    There comes a time when you know what your character's job is, and everyone else knows what their job is.

    But at that point you're still not "thinking". You're just tapping the same buttons over and over until the boss is dead.
     
  19. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    They must be bad players then. Because there is NOTHING in uo that requires more then 1 person to do.
     
  20. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Guest

    Um, it doesn't depend on wether something "requires" only one person to complete. To some people, it is more important to have fun in the game while playing with their friends, than to be able to solo everything.

    And yes, I do know players who are able to solo about everything. But they enjoy the company of others, so they do it with them instead of alone. Being rich isn't everything in game.... at least not the type of rich which requires gold. ;)
     
  21. Opinion noted....now shush up and get in line!!







    hehe:D
     
  22. Wrong.

    Ganking requires as LEAST two.
    hehe



    Seriously tho, to factually dispute your post....it takes 5 peeps to do the lamp post puzzle.