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Spellbook Disarm

Discussion in 'UHall' started by John Shaft, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. John Shaft

    John Shaft Visitor
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    If spellbooks are made disarmable it will basically set a rigid mage class in UO. There already aren't enough skill points for a necro mage with wrestle so I have to play Anatomy/eval for the extra 20 skill points plus whatever I can get on a book and jewelry. If the books become disarmable it basically makes the whole template useless not to mention lrc spellbooks that make suits with Defense Chance Increase much easier. I can't see a reason to make books disarmable except to further destroy the templates that require the strongest skill set. Fix the parts of the game that are broken and/or not serving a purpose if you want to keep players.
     
  2. As a mage who has wrestling and carries around a scrapper's, I say this change is fair.

    We see a reduction in damage potential. Warriors see a complete nullification of damage potential.
     
  3. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I'm still waiting for a Dev to provide the reason for this change.

    I'm not buying the whole "bug fix" thing.

    Now most people on this forum will call me a whiner etc.. This change does not personally affect me and most players relying on a spellbook are just going adapt. It's not a huge deal.

    I just think there should be sound reasoning behind it
     
  4. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    ... Is it really that hard to pull the spellbook out of your pack again?
     
  5. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    So as long as you are a mage who has wrestling and carries a scrapper it's fair? What about a mage who doesn't have wrestling and doesn't carry a scrapper?
     
  6. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    For too long most Mages have been resorting to Disarming a Warrior the first time they are near redlined(and plz dont tell me that Disarm isnt brutally effective because it is) It has been a bs tactic from day one. Its about time that Mages feel a bit of Disarm pain. And it doesnt even come close to what the Warrior feels.

    You are building a whole template/suit around a spellbook? Shame on you & you may get what you deserve.
     
  7. Aboo, I was just presenting my case as one of those who is supposedly affected the most by this change. Someone who is not carrying a scrapper's is affected even less than I am when I get disarmed.

    And if you don't have wrestling or the eval/anat defense mechanic while holding a spellbook, then you've got bigger problems anyways.
     
  8. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Not to argue with you and maybe I am missing something but don't warriors build a whole template around a weapon? :confused:
     
  9. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Of Viable PvP templates... & I'd say that most fit into one of the category's below I'm going to take a bet and say that #6 is probably the least common & bc people aren't stupid that pretty much translates into the least "useful" or imo "Effective"... I don't think that anyone would argue that being able to disarm spellbooks is definately a NERF & I just find it hugely amusing that the class "NERFED" is imo the one LEAST in need of it......

    1) Tamer anything

    2) Mage weapon Necro

    3) Balanced Bow Archer

    4) Bushido Parry Evade Gimp

    5) Mana Crazy one handed special move Dexxer

    6) Stealth Dismount Archer

    5) Wrestling Scribe Using a book


    THAT IS ALL :blushing:
     
  10. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I wasn't arguing with you, truly, I was asking. I understand how wrestling helps, but carrying the scrapper confuses me.

    I personally don't agree with the change. Seems like the entire life of UO people have whined and complained about mages, bards, tamers and they have been nerfed time and time again. I’ve learned to live with the changes but I don’t have the time to invest in figuring out what I have to do to adjust my template in UO anymore or what I skills/equipment I have to have. Which means I just usually play less and less now. *shrugs* That's life in UO.
     
  11. I was just referring to the scrapper's because it has a lot of properties on it that I lose when it will get disarmed. Anyone else using another type of spellbook would most likely be affected even less than I would.
     
  12. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You are mssing the whole Disarm point.

    When we dont have the weapon in our hands due to a Disarm we have lost our offense. When the Mage has his spellbook Disarmed all he can possibly lose is some mods.

    We are not building our whole suit around the MODS on the weapon and that is what Mages are whining about now. They are simply complaining about the loss of mods when Disarmed. Shame on them for basing so much around mods.

    To better illustrate why your point is invalid I will point out that if the Warrior is forced to build his whole template around weapons shouldnt the Mage then have to build his whole template around his spells/book? Yes. So why then can he still use his offense(spells) when its Disarmed and in his pack? The warrior cant use his weapon when its in his pack.

    Disarm on any template has been total bs since day one. It was a huge mistake and has always been nothing more then a ganktool or crutch to make up for a lack of experience on any template.
     
  13. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I am in total agreement with you on this point. These rest we can agree to disagree on.:)
     
  14. UO Relic

    UO Relic Seasoned Veteran
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    Until they give us the same ability to swap between spellbooks as warriors can between weapons they shouldnt make this change. Offhand since I cant remember if you use equiplastwep will it even recognize a spellbook, if it doesnt then this needs to be changed as well.

    Once they make these changes then feel free to disarm my spellbook, I just hate having to open my paperdoll to re-equip/change a spellbook or buy another program (UOAssist) to do this since UO hasnt given us the ability!

    And yes I know they did give us the ability in KR but really how much of the player base even plays in KR, and EA has already announced KR will go away when SA is released so bye bye KR
     
  15. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    I agree they need to make it work in the UO macro's ... but yeah for now UOAssist will help people arm there spellbook again, and you can have more then one spellbook on macro using UOA
     
  16. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    lol. this is what i don't get. how could anyone have forseen this? what was wrong with building a template that relied on a spellbook prior to this change? is that somehow immoral or cheating? no it's not. someone was doing this in the other thread. stop with this kind of propaganda crap.
     
  17. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    So it's ok for a dexxer to get disarmed and unable to strike you while he waits for the re-arm timer to count down but not for a mage to get disarmed and if he has arcane gear and or a few regs still be able to cast healing spells while waiting on the timer to wear down?
     
  18. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Many people build there template around a weapon, why is it a big deal to build it around a book? Makes less stat's required on your suit, just like if you have a weapon with dci/hci, you build your template around it so to speak...

    I dont think it's a big deal being disarmed and loosing some LRC, just run around for a bit then arm your book again. Same thing as warrior's have to do when they loose there weapon.
     
  19. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    everyone is just going to change their gear/template and pick a spellbook that augments the template rather than relying on a spellbook. and the whole time they are disarmed they are going to chug potions. it's not that big of a deal i just want to know why the Dev's did this. "Bug Fix" is not good enough.

    also it will further weaken already weak templates like necro/mage/peacer. again not a big deal because that is for killing spawn.
     
  20. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    And a lot of mages don't see any reduction... SDI is capped at 15% for PvP (pendant and HOM, or pendant and ring/bracelet)
     
  21. Vexxed

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    BLEH... Apparently no one is going to argue with my point. Must be right....

    1) Disarming spellbooks is a nerf...

    2) This Nerfing is to the pvp templates that LEAST needed ....

    You can make all the comparisons about warriors losing this and that but the above 2 points are true and all you really need to say that the nerf shouldn't have happened... it's pretty simple.....
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    They do in UO, and no it's no UOA, no it's not just KR, it is in the main UO client. I even posted this in the other thread. Its called arm/disarm left or arm/disarm right. It's one of those two. All you have to do is arm the book first then hit that macro. Yes it works for spellbooks, I've used it for years.
     
  23. Multi Dwagon

    Multi Dwagon Lore Keeper
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    In my Honest opinion, I think its stupid that they choose to nerf Mages.

    Its not like the spellbook can do moving shots till end of human race.
    Its not like the spellbook can do fire breath and redline someone with onespell.
    Its not like the spellbook are a dragon that has the same amount of HP as 7+ players and can kill anyone 1on1 on foot.

    But this will happened when a Trammel based dev team trys to change Fel PvP.
    Epic fail.

    Best Regards,
    MD
     
  24. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    hah trammle based dev team. have you ever even talked to one?

    any who. posts on this are getting old fast. para. rearm. have plenty of time to get your combo off while there still paralized. end of story, disarm is the most useless thing ever unles your a mage. all disarm = is run and rearm. if someone disarms be in pvp. i instantly dissapear. they see me in about 5 seconds when i have my weapon. if they do it again. they dont see me anymore.
     
  25. archite666

    archite666 Guest

    Yeah except our swing speed is capped at 2 and yours ist, furtherful we dont have hit chance as part of our set up so no its not brutally affective.
     
  26. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Heres an argument: The change is made, people will adapt.
    We live happily ever after :D
    Now lets all hold hands and sing.
     
  27. Sir Kenga

    Sir Kenga Guest

    That's only one side. The OTHER side is: disarmed warriors HEAL at usual rates, but disarmed mages (talking about scrappers) will surely die, cause they lose 0.5 second on each spell.
     
  28. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    So a wrestle mage should be the only template that can have its dci permanent? EVERY other template out there can have their weapon disarm thus removing all DCI. This needed to be done, playing a dexer with max HCI i usually just leave when i face a wrestle mage, they usually have MAX DCI thus making my chance to hit around 33%-50%.
     
  29. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Thank you :) I was about to say the same exact thing.

    People need to stop whining about this change. If a mage can disarm my fencer and stop me from doing any damage at all for a few moments then a dexxer should be able to do something similar. Removing a book can either be a big hindrance to the mage or a small one. How you build your character matters. Don't want to be out of the picture when the book comes off then adjust your suit so that you can handle it like everyone else does.

    You should not be able to build a template with an outrageous amount of skills involved. Mages in my opinion have it the easiest. Try having to use 3 skills for fighting instead of 2 adding atleast 1 more skill if you plan on healing yourself. There goes 4 skills mandatory to use a dexxer.

    So your dexxer can use a wep heal and have one additional skill. Resist? Parry? Whats it gonna be because you have to choose one or the other not both...

    So make your choice with your mage. What you want because you can't have it all at once.
     
  30. Multi Dwagon

    Multi Dwagon Lore Keeper
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    1, Yes Ive talked to them.

    2,
    (Trap Box)
     
  31. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    both sides...
    Warriors lose all Offense, lose all Defense Chance, retain most healing(exclusing any leeching).
    Mages lose some Offense, retain all(previously levels of) Defense Chance, lose some healing.

    too me it appears that warriors still loose more than mages. On top of that mages are still so much more flexible with what they can do. This is a nerf, but still mages aren't left as impotent as warriors when disarmed.
     
  32. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Now, make spell books stealable, and I'll be thrilled. Yeah, this helps me steal player shields...but books too? That would rox...la
     
  33. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    This topic has made me wonder a while ago(when spell book mods came out)... Spell Books being 'Blessed' was a ?valid/good/right? thing when they held no properties because of the spells invested into them, which were a necessity. However, since they can have mods on them, they are kind of in a grey area, even more-so because of the Scrappers. It's almost like any spell book that has mods on it should need to be insured(yes I have mages), from a logical standpoint... I'm not advocating a change, just kind of thinking out loud... Well insurance isn't based on mods... hhmmm...
     
  34. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    Spellbooks with mods should not be blessed.

    This is just part of the Trammelization of Felucca. Pretty soon they will close Siege and delete Felucca then say it was a bug fix.
     
  35. It should've been this way all along, I've often said this over the years. Why shouldn't I be able to disarm a spellbook? Because you don't think so? I'm sick and tired of mages constantly disarming me and then asking "why are you running"... "Ummm because you keep disarming my weapon you moron, should I stand here and let you combo on me like a jack ass?". Sounds to me like it's leveled the playing field a little bit and maybe now they will know how it feels, at least you can work your suit around it, warriors can't do jack without their weapon....and that's fair right?
     
  36. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    my problem is they said it was a bug fix. i don't buy that. i think an explanation is in order but granted they are probably a little busy today trying to put out an emergency publish to fix all these other problems.
     
  37. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I thought you play on siege. I know you have to faction bless any spellbook that's player-crafted, so theoretically they should be stealable.
     
  38. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I agree that spellbooks and shields should have been disarmable all along. I don't know what dev made the change so you can't disarm spellbooks or shields, but it wasn't always this way and never should have been this way. Actually, I think spellbooks were made un-disarmable back when they didn't have any mods anyway. Back then holding a spellbook was purely cosmetic.

    Now that spellbooks have mods on them, they should be disarmable.

    Shields should be disarmable too as a counter for parry.
     
  39. John Shaft

    John Shaft Visitor
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    Mage classes that aren't necro dont' have as much to worry about. Necro mages that don't have +mage rings etc. need the skill points that scrappers or the tome of lost knowledge give. PvP suits for necros have become increasingly harder to build and the templates are now seriously vulnerable because of disarming spellbooks. Goldberg I know you play a tactics mage and I doubt Xavier is playing a PvP necro on a large shard if you think this doesn't matter. So far I Have seen people getting ruined by the spellbook disarm. I want to know why they nerf mages but they leave Greater Dragons alone.
     
  40. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    First off, the mage is not getting nerfed, secondly...you are missing the point, GD belong to tamers. Tamers don't get nerfed...la
     
  41. Why or how should they get "ruined" any faster or worse then a disarmed warrior?
     
  42. mr.blackmage

    mr.blackmage Guest

    not only is it ******** trying to get off a disarm against a warrior with 45 dci with a wrestle attack that swings once every 3 seconds with 0 hci, and you cannot cast spells while you try this, all it does is give people with the best suits an advantage over those who can't afford it. You will get one disarm off maybe once every 2 minutes (if you are healing and going offensive), and if you do they just run. This doesn't make a difference at all except to people that can't afford to drop 300 mil on a suit.

    And wrestle mages are the least powerful pvp template in the game currently. Especially with the added "rubberband fix" 0.5 seconds to ALL spells if you're trying to dodge someone while healing/going offensive. All i can see this change doing would be making the few pure mages that are left (that can't afford a super suit) change their template, or quit.

    I've never had a dexer that hasn't run offscreen instantly as soon as they are disarmed btw, even if they are at full health. Well, that isn't true, the ones that had any clue how to pvp would do SOMETHING to intterupt me, such as holy light, wither, using a weaken scroll, SOMETHING. And yeah, if you're getting disarmed consistently by a wrestle mage without HCI or dex, that means he wasn't casting, and you are the suck.
     
  43. John Shaft

    John Shaft Visitor
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    Can't run and heal like a dexer on a necro mage. The point is that of all the pvp "fixes" why do they do something to the class that is the least broken?