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spellbooks and disarm

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kith Kanan, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    nice way to nerf mages.... if my wrestling mage gets disarmed he looses

    SDI 25
    FC 1
    FCR 1
    LMC 10
    15 lrc
    mr1

    but ofc he has access to the amazing number of TWO special moves and does a TON of dmg pr swing so thats fair..... why the silly nerf ??? I dont see a reason for it.. has anyone ever complained about the fact spellbooks cant be disarmed.. I for sure havent seen it in all the years I've been playing...

    Another mental black out by the dev's WEEE WAY TO GO !!!!
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    inb4 "Adapt"

    And yeah, the change is kind of stupid... Unless we're reading it wrong and it simply means we can use the equip last weapon macro to change from book to book or from book to weapon or from weapon to book. If it's both, meh, if it's only they can now be disarmed, EA fails, if it's only the equip last macro now working than go EA.
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Whats wrong with spellbooks being able to be disarmed? So you will have to re-arm it and have to live a couple seconds without a spellbook...
    There exists a arm/disarm macro in uo that can re-arm your spell book.
     
  4. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    No it can't viper. You have to use UOA for that particular macro ...
     
  5. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Wow Kith, first a banning, now your Mage is nerfed...I guess you'll just have to quit huh?

    I feel your pain though. It sucked hearing that Half Blood Prince won't be out until 09.
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yes, you can use it in the UO macro system. Give it a try. I've been doing it for years. It's called Arm/Disarm left or right. All you have to do is arm your spell book then hit that macro.
    Give it a try before you start your argument.
     
  7. ^Wolfie^

    ^Wolfie^ Visitor

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    Viper is correct. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Ohh my god aint you a clever little teletubby ... why dont you bugger off and play Lego Online...

    But hey I'll play my tactics mage , nox mage , necro mage , my archer mage or my weaver mage .. or no mage at all maybe even ... I got 7 active accounts still , so I got a few toons to choose from.

    Its just a silly nerf ... kinda like your remark ....
     
  9. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    And when a warrior gets disarmed he loses the ability to fight. There is really no comparison here, disarming a spellbook doesn't do much of anything to a mage.
     
  10. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Ofc it dossent , I only carry the spellbook to show of the nice mods , its not like they make a diff now do they......
     
  11. Stupid statement of the day goes to JC. Thank you JC.

    We already know the Wrestle mages need nerfed because there are so many out there and they have the best offense in the game...

    Probable significant Consequences:

    Loss of fast cast
    SDI
     
  12. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    OMG,Viper and Wolfie ... I have been looking for that for ... well forever! I stand corrected :) *makes me wish yet again that the Legacy client had drop-down menus like 3D did instead of drop and drag menus*
     
  13. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
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    I completely agree with JC. This has been something that needed fixing for a very long time. I don't see where mages get off complaining about this FIX. If a warrior gets disarmed he is dead in the water, useless until he can re-arm. And he can be disarmed by a mage who has his hands full with a spell book and a shield using "wrestling"? Come on. Now that we can disarm a mage so what? We take away a little of their overpowered book benefits for a limited time, during which they CAN STILL CAST offensive and defensive spells. Grow up, and suck it up. What they should have done IMHO is make it so a mage book MUST be equipped to cast any spell, and disarming the book makes it so a mage is just as useless as a warrior who has been disarmed. How does that sit with ya? Stop whining and be glad your mages are still overpowered. This is by no means a nerf, its a long awaited fix!
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Not to mention that a fair amount of mages don't even use spells books.
     
  15. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    OMG THEY DARED TOUCH MAGES? OHFFS? Whatever will happen to you now that your book can be disarmed! *Gasp!*
    Naaaaaawwwwww... damn! Blasphemy!!

    *Grabs a pitchfork!*
    Let's hang them, next Town Hall. Me, you, and your army of mage characters.
    ..
    ...
    ....
     
  16. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    If you need mages to equip their books before casting, very soon you will get calls for the chivalry, bushido, ninjitsu, necro books to be equipped too. :D

    I suspect that instead of an intentional nerf, this change was put in together with the ability to swap spellbooks like weapons via the "equip last" macro in UO. Either to balance it or to simplify the code from having to manage too many object classes.

    Also, as the OP himself pointed out, without your uber scrapper, you probably lose some SDI (remember that SDI is capped in PVP), some FC/FCR (which you may already have from jewelry/shields/helms), 1 MR etc. These are only minor boosts that even if it's a deliberate nerf, it's no biggie. Esp if I get the ability to swap spellbooks now.

    The only thing that might be considered a crippling move would be if you rely on your spellbook for your LRC. My view is that if you expect to get into a pvp situation (including fel crafters), you should have your LRC requirements in your jewelry/armour. Same thing if you hunt with multiple spellbooks (eg switching btwn Demon/Undead/Elemental slayers in Doom).
     
  17. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    wow....

    disarming. big topic.

    im gonna semi side with JC. cause thats a pretty big diff.

    however. disarming alone is pretty much lame. it was cool a long time ago, and given that it still help kill people. it doesnt have too. because disarm = run and re-arm. there is absolutly no sence in sticking around with out a weapon. way to put the battle on hold for 5 seconds while i haul ass. if anything it gives the other player a chance to heal.
    and if a mage with wrestling gets disarmed, they can just disarm you too! then you can have a 5 second chat about how things are going IRL and re arm. or hey! paralyze your attacker and....Rearm! best part is that para lasts a half hour for a mage and 5ms for weapon special.

    but if you want to be legitimatly pancakes, wait til the publish goes live and get into a ton of fights, whenever your disarmed, stay completley still and dont do anything. die, come here, and *****.

    i could go on for years but id rather get back to freebasing crack and reading stratics.
     
  18. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Look at it this way...if some poor sucker forgets to insure a weapon a disarm thief can hit him up......mages don't have to worry about that...
     
  19. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yes, wrestling, most overpowered skill in UO. We need to nerf it, because, damn, I mean, its wrestling!
    Honestly though, disarm or para blow...will tide you over long enough.

    But anyways, plenty of mages out there get along perfectly well without their damn book armed anyways. Most of them have their jewels on that gets them up well enough. And assuming someone actually would disarm it as opposed to bleed or some other much more useful special move against a mage, they will mange quite well, seriously.
    :coco:
     
  20. Sir Kenga

    Sir Kenga Guest

    With new publish it will make wrestle mages suck big time.
     
  21. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    Tbh guys, be4 doing a nerf to spellbooks...they HAD TO nerf GREATER DRAGONS, and Moving shots (with a timer) ... But most of all greater dragons, it's the abomination of UO atm. Whoever made a pet with 1000 hp and 70 dmg hits + bleeding is an idiot :(
     
  22. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest


    If I had all those mods covered in my other gear I would use a diff spellbook or non at all , its not like I run around with it to look posh... but hey wrestle mages are tha bomb and need serious nerfing because of the insane dmg they do.... And I do expect to get into pvp situations , he kinda has 700+ counts , and the lrc is covered with arcane items , I just cant see the need for the nerf tbh , loads and loads of other things that needs to be nerfed before wrestle mages... prob the type of mage with the lowest dmg output of all.......... but hey the dev's arer soooo clever and ofc they never make mistakes..........
     
  23. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Biggest whine of the day goes to Simon. Ty.

    Btw Mr. Wrestle mage, when your spellbook is disarmed you can still cast all your spells so are still fully offensive. How much offense does a Warrior have when his weapon is disarmed? Zero.

    Your incessant whine about wrestlemages not being able to do huge damage with their fists is a joke. They shouldnt be doing any damage with their fists in the first place so what is your point now that books can be disarmed? You rely on a spellbook to make your pvp suit? Lmao, time to pay the piper bud.

    To sum up your complaint about wrestlemages lacking offense:
    1) a warrior gets disarmed and has zero offense and also possibly loses mods such as dci and rpd and fc.
    2) a mage gets his book disarmed and loses no offense but some mods if he was silly enough to base his entire suit on his book.
    Hrmmm, that really sounds equal lol.
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I know it may be a pain to your template because you built your suit around the mods on the spellbook, but you just have to change things around.

    Mages do not need to hold a spellbook to cast a spell because the spell is learned. but to realize the mods on the spellbook they have to hold it. No diff than a talisman in your pack vs on your paper doll.

    I exclusively play a mage and have always wondered why spellbooks cant be disarmed.
     
  25. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Hmmm Goldberg saying the mage looses no offense is kinda bullocks ... fc/fcr , sdi , mr and lmc all summs up to dmg dealt over time , I cast slower, got higher chance of being interupted , do less dmg pr spell , can cast fewer spells due to higher mana cost and lower regain of mana.. if thats not loss of offense I dont know what is.... LRC is the least of my problems , I allways carry/use arcane items , but the rest spells lesser dmg done or lesser dmg healed , and that makes a diff.....

    There are alot of stuffs that needs a bit of nerfing/tweaking , but wrestling mages sure as hell aint one of them.... Nope start by taking away the mage weapon property on all weapons ( SC is fine but learn to use the weapon or let it go ) , tweaking pet dmg in pvp , use of para boxes , evil omen ... well you get the idea....
     
  26. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Thats kinda bull , if the mods on the spellbooks arent used to build your suit around then why are they there ??? So you dont build your suit around the equipment you wear.. what do your build your suit around.. except ya paperdoll ????
     
  27. To enhance the character's strength.



    Itself. A suit should be inclusive of everything that is necessary for the character to operate. I've always told people not to build a suit/character that is dependant on any single item. Building a suit that your character is dependent on for skill points, lrc, etc, only creates a situation where you're locked into that single item, with any change causing a complete overhaul of the entire suit/template.
     
  28. Duku

    Duku Guest

    It's fair. Stop.

    No other statements must be done.

    PS. I only use a mage wrestler when i have pvp.
     
  29. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Connor m8 , I usaly have lot of respect for your insight in the game.. but your talking nonsens......

    too enhance the chars strength ... Ehh wtf are you saying i shall use my equipment to make my char stronger.. but the char cant be dependent on it to be stornger ??????



    dont build your suit around items/one item....

    Yeah because no suit is build around items... like Inquis , Orny , Hunters .... Mark of Trav , but ofc they cant be disarmed now can they ..... Well ALL my suits are build around items like that.. thats kinda how power suits are build.... If the suit issent expensive as hell its prob not a suit of mine.........
     
  30. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    My bad Kith. Maybe I misunderstood your point.

    So you are saying that Disarm in general is absolutely no good as the Disarmed item carries properties that players build suits around(such as FC or Dci on a Warriors weapon) So no more Disarm period?

    No more being able to Disarm a weapon in any way?

    Then I agree with you but until then its about time that Mages feel some Disarm pain. Its still not enough and its been way too long coming IMO.
     
  31. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Ahhh getting rid of disarm would make my day.... My problem is I cant see a reason to nerf the by fare weakest type of mage out there .... Its not like I'll cry my eye's out about this , I just play a diff toon or soulstone of wrestling , I just cant see the reasoning behind it......

    but hey its EA... so the lack of a sensible reason is kinda like ThA LaW
     
  32. Let me try to make it a little clearer.

    There's a big difference between useful and necessary.

    USEFUL would be the 25 SDI on a Scrapper's, although it's not NECESSARY in order for the character to do everything he/she should be able to do.

    My Archer has a bracelet that has +12 Resist Spells on it, which pushes his Resist up to 102. It's useful, but not necessary for that particular skill, as the difference between 90 & 100 Resist is negligible. The ONLY reason I use that particular brace is the 20 stat increases it gives him, along with 23 DI. The brace is USEFUL, but not NECESSARY.

    A mage that depends on LRC on a spellbook to fill the 100% needed to cast spells is tied to that book. He/She can't swap out for a slayer spellbook, a mage weapon, or even a SC luck weapon. He/She HAS to have that book ALWAYS equipped in order for the character to use it's primary skill. The book is NECESSARY for the character.

    too enhance the chars strength ... Ehh wtf are you saying i shall use my equipment to make my char stronger.. but the char cant be dependent on it to be stornger ??????



    A perfect example of not building a suit around items is Archers using the Hunter's Headdress to have 120 skill and only have 100 skill invested. They HAVE to have that equipped in order to have 120 skill. They're now tied to that one single item in their suit for their character, and will have to not only change everything in the suit, but also their template, in order to change anything. The exceptions to this would be items that in themselves offer more benefits as a single item than any other items could by themselves. The Orny and Crystalline ring are perfect examples of this, as the Orny has more FC/FCR than is possible on any other item, and the Crystalline ring has +20 Magery AND +20 Focus (both of which are higher than the cap on any other item) plus it has 20 SDI (which is also over the cap on a single item). Having a single artifact that exceeds the cap of any other normal item allows you the freedom to have more on everything else.

    I hope that made it a little clearer.
     
  33. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Connor this is not a matter of me not being at 100% lrc , I carry several pair of arcaane boots just for that reason.. its the combined loose of mods thats silly imho , especialy against the weakest mage type in the game.

    And tbh I only use items where all the mods are of the most use to my char , or atleast try too , having semi lala usefull stuff on a ring takes up a property slot for something more usefull.... I dont play to make a usable suit , i play to make the best suit and as strong a char as by any means possible ... if I didnt do that i might as well play Online Lego.....

    I dont want to force others into playing like me , but I also dont want to be forced to not being able to max my toon.....

    Connor imho my Scrappers is defo in the league of the Orny and Crystalin ring , it makes it so I can have other stuff on my rings and suit parts , how would you like to have your Orny disarmed mid-fight ???.. for me its the same thing.... its a hell of alot of mods too loose !!!!!
     
  34. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    every item has a different use depending on the template and the other items a player has available to use

    your post may make sense to you, but to another player it's irrelevant

    the way I have my suit set up my spell book gives me minimal benefit. so this change doesn't affect me personally. if i get disarmed i only lose a few SDI from the max of 15 and i'll just start chugging pots anyway.

    to some people it is a major change to a part of the game they thought was a stable feature and the devs have just blown it off like it was some minor bug fix. that is a huge insult to some.
     
  35. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    yeah it is funny that he has the gall to sit there and compare your situation to him having 90 or 102 resist.
     
  36. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    side note: hopefully imbuing will help out with building suits, but we won't see that skill until probably Q2 2009. here we are entering Q4 2008 with another huge pvp change.

    they might as well just add disarm as a special move for greater dragons
     
  37. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Kith ... not alot of people are going to agree with you here. My template depends heavily on my weapon ... I mean, without it, I can't do ANY DAMAGE AT ALL! Yet you, with a book in your hand, can disarm me. I lose DCI, Mana Leech, Damage Increase AND the ability to do any damage at all!

    You? You loose a bit of SDI, which your Scrappers overcaps you on anyway (PvP cap is 15) and you probably have near to cap from other items, like you Totem of the Void. You lose 1 FC and 1 FCR ... tbh you should be 2/5 without your Scrapper's anyway; but if you aren't, casting an itty bit slower for a few seconds is not gonna be the end of the world. At least you don't have to keep refresh pots or Divine Fury to keep your stamina up for that FC/FCR to work (you know ... like a dexer has to do to keep their SSI working??)

    MR 1 or 2 .... again, a few seconds without this tiny buff is not going to be the end of the world. You probably wont even notice the difference.

    LRC ... now, why should you be able to get LRC off an extra item that another template doesnt have open to them in the first place? That notwithstanding, at -15 LRC you might fizzle a few times .... welcome to the world of *WIFF*! I miss all the time, even with 65+ HCI.

    Fact is ... a dexer disarms you, you can DISARM THEM BACK! You will be able to re-equip their spellbook before they can re-equip their weapon. Problem solved.
     
  38. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Yeah the other mods must be kinda uber , because I sure could not waste a property spot on a ring on 12 resist if the other mods wherent like off the chart.....
     
  39. Look at it this way. A Scrapper's gives 25 SDI. A slayer spellbook gives double damage.

    Which would you rather have if you were fighting a Balron, the Scrapper's, or a Demon Slayer spellbook?
     
  40. Resist +12
    Str 7
    Dex 6
    Int 7
    DI 23

    That's a total of 20 stat points plus almost a quarter of my DI on a single piece, with the Dex being the only necessary property on the brace, which is easy to find on another brace if I wanted to change something.
     
  41. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    you are approaching this wrong. if there's a chance he will be 2/5 or less than 100 LRC at any point while pvp'ing he's going to have to change up the entire suit. you can't pvp in fear you are going to get a lower reagent message.

    depending on what a pvp'er has available for items he or she might even have to change their template because of this change. if it weren't for soulstones this thread would probably be 20 pages long.
     
  42. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Aillish its not that I cant overcome the loos of the mods (all thou its alot of mods to loos at once) , I just dont understand the reasoning behind the nerf , they nerf the weakest type of mage out there !!!!

    on the LRC thing.. get a grip please.. why do you have accesse to HLD , HFB , HCI , DCI and so forth...... on your weapon when I cant have it on my spellbook.. thats kinda what your saying about my LRC on my spellbook
     
  43. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I play mages in pvp and don't have a problem with spellbooks being disarmed
     
  44. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Yeah or the fact that I got 6 or 7 other mage chars with diff temps to play....
     
  45. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    well in his case with that template and the way it is set up obviously you'd rather have the scrapper's. i'm sure if he was worried about owning balrons for some reason he'd get on a different char anyway.
     
  46. What's funny is you having the gall to spout this drivel about something that was used as an example of USEFUL vs NECESSARY.

    Maybe next time you should take the time to actually read AND comprehend a post before trying to dissect it.
     
  47. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    neither do i but it's stupid to ignore the fact that some people are going to have to change their playstyles because of this and for the devs to blow it off as a minor bug fix is silly. this is not in the same league as fixing repair deeds so they work on arcane gloves.

    i'd like to hear a real explanation for why they made this change.
     
  48. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest


    do you play a wrestle mage with a sweet spellbook equiped ??? because my swords mage, my archer mage , my necro mage .. well you get the picture.. non of those has any problems with spellbooks being disarmed......

    If not , thats kinda like playing a fencer and saying I dont have a problem with macing being nerfed......
     
  49. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about and should go back and reread the conversation until you have a firm grasp of it. Then you can come back and discuss it with a full understanding instead of the partial one you have now.

    Cya in a bit.

    *waves*
     
  50. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    did you even read my post? i explained every situation with people is different. everyone has different items in the chests at their house, different characters available, different skills stored on soulstones etc..

    picture this, dude works his ass off every day to provide for his family or something, the economy is bad, he works overtime, he gets one day off every 2 weeks. whatever the case. he might have to wait 24 hours to pvp because of a soulstone or sit around tinkering with his suit and scouring vendors for a different pair of leggings when his plan was to chill out on his day off and kill some newbs with his mates and eat a pizza and get his keyboard all greasy and not give a crap.

    yes, it's a game and it may not be that big of a deal but that's not really the point.

    you have no concept of anything. it was wrong for the devs to do this with no explanation and just say "oh it was a bug"