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State of the economy?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Yellow Beard, Jul 20, 2010.

?

Are Griefers setting our gold standard?

  1. Yes

    34.1%
  2. No

    65.9%
  1. Yellow Beard

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    Would you approve a move by Mystic to bust the outside economical practice of selling gold, setting the gold standard much higher than in game gratuities?
    Mystic could sell gold on the basis of in game gratuities @ approximately .10 cents per mill. This would put a lot of money griefers out of business. Lets here realistic comments on this and please don't mention sellers or the present price frame. I did that once and Petra was not at all amused :gee:
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No. Allowing EA to sell gold would ruin the market a hell of a lot more than whatever the griefers are supposedly doing. The thing about people selling gold is that they actually obtain it in some form or another from the game. If EA sells it, they are just creating gold out of the blue for price.

    Not agreeing with gold for cash. If they can stop it awesome, but selling gold themselves wont make things better.
     
  3. HD2300

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    It makes sense.

    If Mythic replaces the "professional" RMTers, all the profit goes to Mythic instead... which can be spent on more developers, more designers, more content, more GMs, more events, more advertising. It will ensure that the UO servers operate longer. Everyone wins, except the "professional" RMTers.

    How large is this amount? Everquest ran a trial on 2 of its servers and found out that the 40,000 players on these 2 servers spent $1,850,000 per year!!! UO has 70,000 -120,000 subscripters. So imagine Mythic getting $4,000,000 more per year.
     
  4. HD2300

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    There would be no impact in game if the amount of gold or resources entering the game remains exactly the same.

    When "professional" sellers sell stuff, almost nothing goes back into salaries for more developers, more GMs, more designers, more content, more events, more advertising. 99.9% of players would benefit from EA getting all the profits, rather than a small minority of "professional" sellers who make a living off UO.
     
  5. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    They should test it on a shard then, They already sell items, Just would mean creating 'gold tokens'.

    Just don't pick Europa, I don't want to be at the raw end of a bad mistake. :D
     
  6. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
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    So will that meen UO will be F2P then also?
    If they keep selling stuff , they may as well go that way..

    And the amount of gold in game now, and how easy it is to get...would just be a waste of time..
    The only people who would loose out are new players..

    If they sell gold the player base will think..crap i guess i can ask 10 million for this shovel since people can buy gold from EA..

    It will never happen..Just stop it out rite.

    You can stand in Luna bank .. go up stairs and see who the sellers are..dam i can give you names of 3 i see pop in all the time, plus people who play the game selling it..

    I know , no names permited to be given out...
     
  7. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Im gunna ruffle feathers right now.

    So forgive me for saying:

    Two years ago at the Europa Rares Fest (select piece from memory) I purchased a server birth Kettle 10 mill. This year that same Kettle was at the Chessy Rares Fest for 65mill. Infact almost every server birth anything was running 65mill. The percentage of prices that were for items even as of last years Fest at Atlantic was off the wall.
    Ladys and Gentilmen I hate to tell you this as the player base dwindles so do the prices go up for these items. Has nada to do with the availability of items but the mega upswing for gold from the players who have the "goods".

    Things that we use to wait for a few months to drop are not dropping as they use to. IE: the new quest and champs in TerMur. I have watched the big demon statue come and sit on a vendor for 4 months at 85mill. Now you cant tell me these are soo rare to beget that much gold... I am not that stupid to not look in homes around Luna to see over 10 of them alone decoing many house roofs.

    We make the prices for items not UO not the gold sellers ether... WE DO. Mythic should sell gold if it gets the others off our game and puts that money we spend on outside gold back in the game we plays pocket. It would benifit Mythic/EA/Bio, and in turn us.
    I also think some of this new stuff should be on an NPC for players who cant actualy get it for a set price of gold as well. A built in gold sink. There is a ton of arties in the game that could be sold on that NPC and make the company money which would benifit players in the long run.

    You may now roast my tush for it....... Im a business woman who made it in a mans world and lasted a long time by seeing the need and working to fill it in my line of work. It makes good business sense as does the need for EA to get off its Azz and advertise and promote our game. New kids are out there and even if we get 1% of them thats alot more then we are getting now with nothing.
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It's good business of course. But if they start selling gold there is going to need to be a way to keep those who start buying gold by the bundles playing this game. Now that they have all the gold they will ever need, what is going to keep them from getting dead bored in this game?

    Then there are those who refuse to buy gold, how will the game affect those players?
     
  9. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    one would hope players are playing the game for fun and entertainment and a way to have friends when its not good timing around their area to do so. Not to corner the market on gold.... I find even with all I have I still find playing fun. I hunt, resource gathering, talk to friends and generaly run rampant on other shards. Remember one thing if they buy gold they are spending rl cash. Not many would spend $$$ and then leave it willy nilly.
    The gold/npc pair would make things a bit easer but not by much. It would shut off the companys selling gold that EA/Mythic/Bio is not getting paid for. Dropping the dime on the making of this gold by mythic would gain cash for the games further development. And the NPC's items wouldnt be dirt cheap ether.... example: ok you want a crimson cincture its on the npc for 18mill ok you buy from Mythic 20 mill ..$20 that apron just cost you 18 bucks. Do you really think a player will walk away from the game after spending that kind of rl money?? just for being bored??? Hell son show me a kid who dont get bored of ANY thing in a few plays!! When you look at the gaming shops and all the titles out there you get the feeling you would never play that many ?? ha! I know kids who have gone through almost every game system on the planet and most of the games. AND I STILL HEAR IM BORED!! So my point is many kids spend $$ on what they want why shouldnt UO get some of it and kill off the scabs who suck the game dry?
     
  10. If the price of gold goes down, the price of items in-game will go up, so its a vicious circle, we need less gold in-game not more :thumbup1:
     
  11. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I refuse to buy gold out of game. If EA/Mythic (Bioware?) decided to sell via the store, I would not have any problem buying that way if I needed some extra cash.
     
  12. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I would totally disapprove.
    Rich people wanting to skip parts of the gameplay on which they consider not worth spending time are the griefers.

    If you want gold, ask all the treasure hoarders that have billions "in case of". All the players always asking for gold sinks because they don't spend their money, but they keep earning it by habit. They 120ed Imbuing in a few hours but don't worry, it was a drop taken out of the ocean.

    There's absolutely no need to add more money in the game. There's already too much of it, hence the stupid prices.
     
  13. argh.
    bad idea.
    How about this? Just go earn your gold. Kill stuff.

    How many times do I have to say it. GOLD isnt the issue. Resources, arties, wipes of an orcs butt would be sold for those that want to profit, if gold was cheaper. That is seller sell what others dont feel like getting themselves.

    For instance instead of 100 million gold. The seller would spend 100 million on ore. Sell the ore for cash. Its the lazy factor.

    Its not gold. Its the fact people will buy stuff from people that sell stuff. Which is fine by me.

    Stop worrying about sellers. Get EA to fix the game and make it more fun and random.
     
  14. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Thats just silly. And its perfectly reasonable, if you don't think its worth walking 10 miles to town, then you buy a car...the guy who can't afford transportation still has to walk.

    Thats life.

    Actually many of us ask for gold sinks to increase the value of gold and as such stop the one way accumulation of gold.

    A new player can earn millions very fast by simply killing troglodytes and BoS 60K piles of gold back to the bank.

    Eh? Thats not even possible, not even with cheating. And that has nothing to do with the amount of gold in the game.

    Which is why people ask for money sinks. And buying money would more even the gold amounts out than anything else, if properly managed and the gold price is high enough.
     
  15. I answered yes, but not for the reason you think.

    I assume by griefer you mean scripters. I think scripting should be banned, yes. I do not, however, believe that outside sale of gold and items should be forbidden. If people want to pay RL money for gold, and there is someone willing to sell it then why not?

    I think the problem is that UO is an elitist game. You can't play the game unless you have all of these elite items. Try playing from scratch and see how long it takes you to obtain a good PvP suit and proper equipment to fight high-end monsters. NEWSFLASH: THIS IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!!
     
  16. I dont have a high end suti. Just bought those demon bone arms from the bane for 195k.

    My point. You dont even need to fight now-a-days to acquire stuff.

    Gold is easily achieved without scripting. The game is broke. EA needs to fix many problems. Exploration and fighting monsters should have a purpose... it really doesnt.

    But I will wait.
     

  17. I agree. Couldnt write it better.
     
  18. Kellgory

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    Even it you let Mythic sell gold on their website, you would still have people undercutting them. I'm not saying that everyone that sells gold and items through a website are aquiring the items through dubious means, but there are some that I'm a little suspect of their methods. When they (Mythic) introduce items on the gamecode website and then a week later you can go to one of these other websites and buy the same item for a dollar less makes you wonder. Of course Mythic in my opinion has pretty much given up on trying to stop whatever these people are doing to get their items and have instead tactics to let's make the items almost worthless. Imbuing has made heartwood obsolete which in turn has cut down on people doing the fletching quests and lumberjacking with assistance. Not a bad thing unless you were making money by either selling lumber or kits the honest way and now your 14-18 mill kit is now 1-2 mill.
     
  19. Yellow Beard

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    The problem with this is that it goes out of the game into private pockets. That money paid to Mythic would benefit the game by producing more revenue. I really don't want to hold up a sign saying that The World (of UO)
    is coming to an end but I just added some characters to Atlantic and was able to find two large housing spots on the first day of trying. People are leaving. One of these days without notice the plug is going to be pulled. Adding another source of revenue to the gamer/developers is the best way to prolong that end time.
     
  20. That's definitely a valid point. The problem with any type of ban on external gold sales, however, is that

    1) You can't stop people from undercutting the system. It's illegal to sell gold in WoW, LOTRO, and many other games and yet players can still buy it. Yes, this would decrease the legitimate (by legitimate I mean non-cheaters) people who sell it, but those aren't necessarily the people causing the problem.

    2) Assume gold sales do go towards UO development like the uogamecodes stuff does. Would this be enough to counteract the number of accounts that would be closed because of the gold sales ban? Assume they banned cheaters with server detection techniques...lots of accounts lost. I'm not saying either of these types deserve to set foot in Sosaria...but banning gold sales and Mythic establishing the sale of it may not be enough to keep the game going if the above said moves are implemented.

    The *only* way I think it would be possible to at least adjust the situation they have is to do the impossible. Replace the current shards with new ones where everybody starts equal. I honestly don't think this issue can ever be resolved on a Post-AoS shard because it is completely driven by only high value items and artifacts. You have an upper class who can afford to buy virtually anything they want because they have so much gold (legally or not), so the prices remain completely out of range for the middle and lower classes.

    Remember that if you ban gold sales, you are also banning whatever else those guys sell too. I've known people who have come back, realized they didn't have the time to catch up, and pursued external avenues to obtain their items. I don't advocate doing it, but how do you tell them "You shouldn't do that! You should forego your real life commitments and deaden more brain cells collecting pixels!"
     
  21. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    This question really is a complicated one.

    Being quite frank about it, the economy in UO on most shards, is ruined. No matter what they try to do about it at this stage, it's beyond repair. As someone else mentioned earlier though, it's mostly the fault of the players that it is where it is. Greed sadly, is part of human nature and people will always want the maximum they can get from others, for what they have to sell.

    In the context of the game as it is today, I see absolutely no problem whatsoever, with EA selling more gold or items directly to their players. If they are sensible about pricing, they should generate considerable revenue. Given the item-centric nature of UO, especially since AoS launched, I'm surprised that EA didn't take advantage of this revenue stream much earlier. People do and will always buy items for real $$$, so why not steer that into their own coffers, rather than those of opportunist third parties.

    The flip side of the coin, is how far do they go? At what point could selling more items directly, do more harm to the subscription base than good? This is one of the reasons why I see the most viable future for UO in todays market, being the free-to-play model. Other games appear to have made the transition successfully. They've seen sharp upturns in both revenue and number of players. If EA are going to make that decision though, they're going to have to make it soon, or eventually the subsctiption base will continue to dwindle.

    Some of you ask why some of us would like and prefer a "classic" option. One important aspect is the economy. Yes, there's always been desireable and much sought after items in the history of the game, but head back to pre-AoS times and I believe the economy of UO was in much better shape than it was post-AoS.

    Another aspect, is flow of "new" players. The game as it is now, is so item-centric, that despite what we might think, in the mind of a new player, they will look at what a character needs to compete with the veterans, then not bother. They look at the time it will take to "catch up", or the prices people are selling items for. But for new or casual players, it's certainly a deterrent to playing, if they feel they can never progress without a leg up from others all the time.

    Now that doesn't particularly deter me, because for me a game isn't about the end-game, but the journey there. That's part of the fun. Likewise, I know plenty of players and guilds, who fall over themselves to help new or returning players, get up to speed.

    So, in my opinion, what created the biggest flaws in UO's economy, was AoS item-centric gameplay creating a "need" for certain things, along with the greed of the players themselves.

    You can't turn the clock back on the production shards, or repair the economy as it is. That's why the only future I see for UO, is a combination of FTP/gamestore item/gold/expansion sales for the production shards, with subscription only based "classic" options.

    The longer EA takes to make a decision over what direction they want to head, the more subscriptions it will lose, thus the closer the game gets to the brink of existence.

    Personally, I think it would be good for the players to have some sort of dialogue with the developers, as to the long term future of UO and what direction everyone feels would be for the best. I believe Draconi mentioned in one of his posts, that he and others were in support of the FTP model, but the idea was cast aside by more senior staff. It's not too late to change that train of thought, but it's something that needs to be looked at again soon, before it is too late.
     
  22. RD Gumbie

    RD Gumbie Guest

    They have accounts, which pay salaries and all that stuff you mentioned, and when they have cant sell, they drop accounts.

    So I'd say it's pretty much the same situation, but liek peps said here, everyone will raise prices on goods so they can sell for 5 cents a mil and then the peps fighting monsters get teh shaft.
     
  23. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    NO NO NO NO NO

    and once again... NO!!!

    FIrst and foremost, EA/Mythic/Bioware selling ingame gold will be THE EXACT SAME THING as condoning and engaging in DUPING.

    So unless you just WANT the game to have a monetray system that looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    Then the company that runs a game should NEVER sell the ingame currency.

    That out of the way, the OP is a disjointed mess. First, griefers have NOTHING to do with the current UO economy (pre-UO:R this is a different case). Second, as stated above, EA selling gold would be opening the gold-dupe flood gates as the gold created would NOT be from actual in-game sources, but made out of thin air. Third, EA should focus on removing EXPLOITERS, not RMT sellers (UNLESS a person is BOTH, then they obviously should be removed for EXPLOITING, not for RMT activity).
     
  24. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Have them sell it, don't have them sell it. They just need to sell their own upgrades for in game gold. Oh wait, then they would never make a profit ;)
     
  25. You're saying the in-game economy doesn't look like this already? :pint:
     
  26. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Nah there are still a few zeros lopped off the end for the vast majority of players :p

    Maybe this one at the most for the top of the top end players:

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Restroom Cowboy

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    EA is not losing anything though, you need to understand that. EA makes money with tokens, sub fees, and add ons so there is no need for them to sell more. If someone wishes to support EA in this process they can simply buy and sell tokens and add ons purchased through the EA store. This in the process would not flood the game with additional gold, and still allows all to be happy with the end result.

    To give people who sell gold a bad name just because of a few bad apples is not the route to go...neither is cutting them off. Often times those same people who do things honestly have multiple accounts and already support EA through sub fees and token costs. I guess you really didnt think things through tho...did ya?
     
  28. Restroom Cowboy

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    hah...that would clear up a lot of room. could go from 50 vendors to 1!
     
  29. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Trust me, the LAST thing I want UO's economy to become is like Zimbabwe's, or in gaming terms, have gold numbers that read like some pinball machine scores (although, I do agree in some cases we are pretty close to the latter).
     
  30. Restroom Cowboy

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    Oh i hear ya...just thinking in terms of each vendor can hold 2 billion...

    So that one note would save a lot of space. :p
     
  31. dum3886

    dum3886 Guest

    If they sell gold at 10 cents.. items will just become 5-10x more expensive... so all the work people have done over the yrs will result to zilch... fantastic.
    Some ppl spent yrs to make 100 mill... and when u can buy 100mil with half an hrs of part time work lol... FAIL!

    THEN

    If they sell at $1, gold sellers will well at 90 cents...

    This is a stupid idea.

    and 4,000,000 :S... that number came outta no where. just bcz one game made XXX amount/account does not mean UO will make XXX amount/account.
    Seeing an event occur once or even 1,000,000 doesn't not mean all swans r white - Black Swan
     
  32. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    not with this one. Im all down for experimentation. as long as it lessens the amount of gold. not increases.
     
  33. HD2300

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    No undercutting will occur if "professional" sellers are removed

    "Professional" sellers may have multiple accounts. But what is better for EA and in turn 99.9% of players? For EA to get say something like $800/yr in subscriptions from a "professional" seller, or instead get the $50,000/yr that this "professional" seller makes in RMT sales

    That is the crux of the debate. There is a need for gold, resources, items. Currently "professional" sellers meet this need. This need is in the millions of dollars. If EA fulfills this need instead of the "professional" sellers, you looking at a lot of profit, which will benefit EA, the UO team and 99.9% of players. And yet... some posters are against it

    "Methinks the lady doth protest too much"
     
  34. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    And what exactly do you get that $50,000/yr figure from? The assumption that nearly every player will actually participate in the buying of gold and will continue to do so every year?
     
  35. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    They got it the same place they've been pulling the rest of his numbers, which is the same place they're getting the proposed glorious outcome as well and has been since the first thread they started on the issue recently.

    Obviously they're going for the "If I say it enough times it will be true" strategy instead of one that is based in any education or experience in business and the free market (and specifically the gaming secondary market).
     
  36. HD2300

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    ... and what is the proposed outcome? EA gets millions more in revenue, which means more developers, more designers, more new content, more events, more GMs, more advertising, UO servers run longer. Everyone wins... except "professional" sellers.

    [​IMG]
     
  37. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    And this is based on what I ask again? If every player continuously buys tons of millions of gold every year?
     
  38. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Which is completely unprovable because in order for that to happen...

    ... it has to be 100% EFFECTIVE that players abandon 3rd party sources in favor of EA (not likely unless EA sets the gold price rediculously low),

    ... it has to be 100% EFFECTIVE that EA can shut down 3rd party sources (impossible, as even the mighty Blizzard cannot do this),

    ... AND it has to be 100% EFFECTIVE that EVERYONE buys gold from EA directly instead of gathering it ingame or through other means (Not going to happen as many people do not spend real money on the game beyond their subscription fee to begin with which means that you have ZERO idea of the size of the RMT users vs non-RMT users).

    Beyond that, the Devs have to maintain at least some semblance of economic balance if and when possible. EA selling gold (made from thin air) throws this balance to the wind.

    "So price it higher to lessen the effect" - Nope, that doesn't work as all the 3rd party sources have to do is undercut the price which right now is already pretty absurdly low, especially if you consider the current price of gold vs the time it takes to gather that gold for even better players (leaving out the "lotto winners" who score a HUGE IDOC or rare item(s) and exploiters) and compare that to the minimum wage (even if you can net 1,000,000 gold / hour in UO, you're looking at an effective 50c - $1/hour pay... ooo big bucks there, huh?).

    "So just make it too low for the 3rd party sources to compete" - then they have to sell an obscene amount just to cover the costs of the system used to sell it as well as flood the game with ingame currency.

    You keep saying "Oh it will work out", the rest of us are saying "Oh really, how exactly do your numbers work and do you even realize what that 'success' would do to the game's already sporked economy?".

    It's not "protesting too much", it's debunking your constantly parroted tripe.
     
  39. HD2300

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    In the Everquest II trial, the average player spent ~$46 per year on RMT. RMT sales can be gold, resources, items.

    Lets just take gold as an example.

    The impact would be exactly the same as it is now, if the amount of gold or resources entering the game remains exactly the same.

    Now if EA starts adding more gold sinks, they could let even more gold enter the system. You know why there arent more gold sinks at the moment? Because there is no financial incentive for EA to do so at the moment. But if EA were to start selling gold, there would be the incentive for them to put all sorts new deco items and rares for sale on vendors.

    Yet another example of if EA takes the place of "professional" sellers, everyone wins except for the "professional" sellers.
     
  40. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I just want someone to explain to me why I can buy a Legacy token at UOGamecodes for 9.99, and claim a soulstone, or I can buy one in Luna for 14 mil??? I'm sorry what? If gold is currently valued at .90/mil, why aren't Soulstone tokens 10 mil ? EA, you wanna make a lot of cash, drop those suckers down to 4.99 and watch em fly out the door..
     
  41. HD2300

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    EA and other games saw their business model as subscriptions. When this is the view, there is no incentive to shut down 3rd party sellers.

    However if EA looks at it as we can also make a ton from also upselling. Suddenly it is like woah, if we take the place of "professional" sellers it is like $4-6 million in extra revenue per year. Now that is a really big incentive.

    Even if it is 95% successful. 95% of say $4,000,000 is a ton of money.
     
  42. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I said no... and had to COMPLETELY laugh at the "if EA sells gold, it will go toward devs, servers, etc".

    In a perfect world, MAYBE. But the reality would be UO as a whole would see very little of the money from selling gold.

    Add in that the money is "magically" appearing into the game with no gold sink and the ingame economy will tank worse than it is. I can see prices on things like scrolls doubling or worse.
     
  43. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Sure, in EverQuest II. And then assuming UO = EQ II and that every account in this game = the average player. Then assuming they will keep playing and buying gold all the time as if it were required.

    What about the non-average players then who don't want to buy gold? Screw them and let them quit?
    Then assuming all money goes to Mythic which is kind of funny.

    But you still aren't explaining where you get these numbers you keep tossing around. Where does this 4-6 million come from?
     
  44. RD Gumbie

    RD Gumbie Guest

    Thats from the 40,000,000 mil checks UO will sell each year of course!


    LOL (thats 40 MILLION 1 mil checks!)
     
  45. HD2300

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    http://virtual-economy.org/blog/how_big_is_the_rmt_market_anyw - RMT Research Paper
    1.87M/40,000 = Average subscription account in EQ2 spends $46.75 per year.

    RMT sales are not just gold. It is gold, resources, item.

    If UO has 100,000 subscription accounts assuming "on the average one Everquest II user uses about as much money on RMT as any other MMOG user", then
    Secondary RMT sales per year = $4,675,000 / year

    If UO has 120,000 subscription accounts...
    Secondary RMT sales per year = $5,610,000 / year

    Also the $46.75 per sub per year is lower than the true amount, as what was measured was sanctioned commission based RMT.
     
  46. Restroom Cowboy

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    I swear that some of you have nothing better to do than to pull numbers out of your behinds. To look with blind eyes does not mean you can see...
     
  47. Splup

    Splup Guest

    This.

    Gold that brokers sell is obtained at from the bottom of foodchain. That money has been looted either from mob, ground or chest at some point atleast. So it does not increase the total amount of gold in game, it just changes owner.

    If EA was selling money, it would increase the total amount of gold in game causing inflation go crazy, meaning that the ones who are NOT buying gold would have to kill more and more mobs to get the same items...

    No one wants the prices to go even higher then they are now, making this game even harder for new players.
     
  48. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Gold sales sites put no effort into obtaining the gold. They use the naughty programs and hacks that EA does nothing about. Even if they sold 10 cent a mil gold the sites would just sell it at 9. People to lazy to earn their own gold or think they need to win UO in two weeks will save a penny.
     
  49. Lord Urza

    Lord Urza Guest

    If gold was sold by EA for ten cents per mil, it would drasticly increase the prices of in game items, and can you imagine having to pay 100+ mil for many items?
    What a head ache that would be.
     
  50. Exactly, you understand. Most people don't.

    Transfer tokens are 18 million on atlantic.
    You sell gold for .10 cents. I guess because people think, we'd all have gold.


    That 18 million gold token now jacks up 54 million a token.

    I know some argue but that is why the economy works. Items cost adjust to amount of gold.

    The problem was with the DUPERS that jumped gold from lets say 50 billion in the economy to 200 trillion. (JUST FOR POINT)

    Those that were duping could buy those tokens for 18 million because most players didnt know gold was being duped.

    Ah well, same old argument.

    Any player at any time can get into the economy perfectly fine.