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Stealth buff needed.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ravahan, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    The other day I posted a thread looking for a way to keep from being passively revealed every time I walked by an elf. While at the time I wasn't really complaining, I am now.

    *text removed*

    *EDIT: A workaround was posted by WarUltima in this very thread, which has fixed the issue for me and will for you as well. Stealth does not, in fact, need a buff-- Just a few tricks shared between stealthers as the several others who posted in the original thread weren't aware of this either.
     
  2. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    very few people use elfs in pvp...coz they suck (Elfs). But a steather should stay at least 4 tiles way from everyone! even a human has 20% to reveal you

    but if you stay 4 tiles away then you should be ok
     
  3. Hard to do when you wanna go -------->
    And the elf is going <-------------

    Its an ignorant :gun:bug that SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED ALREADY!!!!

    Ya hear me EA!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. Nalif

    Nalif Journeyman
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    [​IMG]

    Second.
     
  5. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Elf is going <-----------------
    And you or your character can NOT just go AROUND him?


    Do I need to teach you how to play a stealther/thief now? Passive reveal is necessary or all prodo shards will be as stupid as Seige where stealth tamer = GOD mode. If anything stealthing dont need a buff but smoke bomb and 5 second rehide timer needs a serious nerf.

    You already have it easy. We used to have to USE STEALTH SKILL manuelly after click hiding, then we have to count steps and when we do get revealed we cant just go into animal form and turtle away or smoke bomb for a 100% sucessful zero skill rehide.
     
  6. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    Yep, this character was a traditional assassin then, when you had to manually stealth. He's been revamped. I was there, I got murder counts. I ran with Conclave of Shadows [CoS] on atlantic.

    Maybe you've not stealthed for a while, War, but When someone comes barelling into your screen on a mount at full speed, you litterally have time to take ONE step. This is sufficient to keep from having them run into you ('cause then the gig's up anyway), and that is perfectly fine.

    The issue is that there are places in this game where you physically CANNOT go around elves. All the passageways that make up the vast majority of deciet are 3 tiles wide. You cannot stay 4 tiles clear in a 3 tile hallway.

    Even that is alright, except that there is NO WAY to get around being revealed. Even if I had to knock my med down or something to fit it in, if I could decrease my odds of being revealed by having 120 stealth you bet your buttons I'd be off buying that 120 this very instant and stealthing around in chainmail to skill it.

    This is not an issue where people aren't willing to adapt, its an issue where people cannot adapt because there's no way around it. If you're going to stealth (as ALL thieves must, which might be why this was never fixed lol), you are going to be revealed by 1 out of 5 humans you pass and 10/10 elves with zero zilch nada detect hidden.

    I fully accept that commiting 200 skill points to stealth is kind of crippling if I'm fighting on my own, and that's fine. It would just be nice if that 200 points was useful for STEALTHING lol.

    IMO it should be closer to the frequency that mobs reveal you at, but a bit higher. Those angel dudes in Oaks reveal me about 1/5 times I pass by.

    UO Live team; What can I do, as a player, to help you fix stealth? I will be a part of the solution in any way I can.
     
  7. Kamphine_Atl

    Kamphine_Atl Visitor

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    Just some other stealther complaining because he cant kill people without them targeting him.
     
  8. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Elves passively reveals you 100% of the time is not true. Is more like 50% to 80%5 if the elf is a dexer with high dex.

    I am still stealthing as a red stealth archer. I can tell you to get the timing down on "rehide". I say rehide means to hit that hiding macro while you are already in stealth mode. As soon as you "rehide" while stealthing it lowers passive reveal chance to zero. You have to do it smart and use your skills wisely. If you knew hiding had zero % chance of being passively revealed you would be a better thief by now.

    Also shadowjump is useful. After shadowjump if you do not take a step to go into stealthing mode you also have 0% chance of being passively revealed.

    If you don't know how certain things works pm me.

    Stealth is fine. To decrease passive reveal chance you must lengthen rehide timer. Smokebomb takes skill out of a rogue almost completely and is vastly overpowered.
     
  9. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    That's very interesting, and I bet its something most people don't know judging by the responses in the thread I posted asking for a way around passive reveal. I'll give this a try later for sure!

    If this indeed works as you've said, then I agree stealth is likely fine as-is. Do you know how the degredation effect works specifically? Is it a set amount per stealth attempt? I'll PM ya with any more questions, thanks for the tip!
     
  10. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    If you use hiding skill which you should have anyways while stealthing it kicks you out of stealth mode and enter hiding mode. At this point you have zero chance of being passively revealed as long as you do not take a step which will again place you back to stealth mode.

    Again, everytime while I am stealthing and someone runs toward my general direction I will hit "hiding" macro and stop moving for a little and let them pass me (0% chance of being passively revealed). Also if your hiding skill is on reuse timer, shadowjump will refresh the hiding timer and place you into "hiding mode". Shadowjump is unique as it requires "stealth mode" to use but puts you in "hiding mode" after teleport.

    To make it easier for you. When you use HIDING skill you are now in HIDING mode with 0 chance of being passively revealed. As soon as you take a step from HIDING mode it brings you to STEALTHING mode (and now you are affected by passive reveal until you "rehide" by using HIDING skill again).

    Hiding mode = Cannot be passively revealed
    Stealth mode = Affected by passive reveal EVEN IF you are NOT MOVING.

    Ok there goes all my secret. And yes rarely anyone knows how exactly these things work thats what made me better stealther/thief/ninja than other average Joes. I already gave you all the tips you should know to be a successful stealther. Stealth dont need a buff if anything it should be nerfed. Btw my stealth archer is the least powerful faction character I have because hiding/stealth/ninjitsu taking most of my skill points, yet I get the most kill points and dies the least amount of time. I can solo stealth into enemies of 5 to 10 and kill one of them and come out alive. It's not hard, its actually so stupidly easy thanks to smoke bombs.
     
  11. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    That's a great trick! Yeah, the last time I used this guy was back when you had to manually stealth, I think, and thus had skill timer (and there were no elves besides) so I would never even have thought of that! Brillaint.

    While I can't fit ninjitsu in on this character, I do have it on a soulstone GM+ should I ever decide to try. I'll definatly play with this later tonight, and if you don't mind I'll pass yer little secret on when I see a stealther in distress, as this is indeed a work around.

    As for smoke bombs, I have shadow strike which while not quite as good, can occasionally do something for ya.
     
  12. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    You guys act like it's hard to play a stealther or something. If you have so many problems getting revealed all the time, just make a hotkey for hiding and then hit it immediately after you get revealed. Or if you aren't very fast on the keyboard, just use smoke bombs and animal form. Problem solved.

    P.S. Stealthing archers are annoying enough without a fix such as making it to where they can't be passively detected sometimes. I pk'd 3 faction members on my stealth archer at the gate before they knew what was going on.
     
  13. Lost-Soul

    Lost-Soul Guest

    ADD Ninja for smokebombs. problem solved
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Stealthing just requires that you play a little differently.
    Basically, weigh the importance of each move you make, against the risk of being revealed. If the risk of being revealed is greater than the benefit of the move, then don't make the move.
     
  15. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    rtlfc

    So I tried out War's tip tonight on that character, and it worked like a dream. In the interest of completeness, I tested it by going back to deciet. I had an elf in an opposing faction run almost straight into me. As I saw him coming, I moved the one square I was able and immediately hit my hide macro. Sure enough, I wasn't revealed.

    Cheered by this, I decided to try it out a bit more. I stealthed around an active champ spawn in despise with the same results. The problem I had before was that even standing still, Kim, I would be revealed if an elf ran by me. With War's suggestion, however, this was not a problem at all. On an unrelated note, Kim, your avatar is freaking creepy.

    Red; The issue with that is once you're revealed, you lose any benefit stealth would really offer you. I don't use stealth as a get-away mechanism, but rather as a scouting tool and, previously (though I don't run with anyone now), to set up a tactical ambush.

    Either way, now that I know this work-around I'm quite happy with the stealth skill.
     
  16. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Standing still, you shouldn't be passively revealed, at all. As long as you remain still, then there should be no risk of passive reveal.

    Oh, and compared to the sig I used to have, my avatar's just plain lovable.
     
  17. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I know what you said make sense but it's not how the system works currently. If you are standing still in stealthing mode you DO RISK being revealed. But if you are in hiding mode, then it has no risk of being revealed at all.

    You are switching between hiding and stealth. By entering stealthing mode it also lowers the rehide timer to 5 seconds not the 11 or 12 seconds.

    As I said I think playing a stealther is not hard at all, and in fact I think it should be nerfed... yet still I see smart(dumb) azzes making stupid comments. Sigh... uhall kiddies.
     
  18. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I never knew this (about hiding mode being 0% chance to reveal), and I feel dumb now. I also didn't know that shadow jumping puts you back into hiding mode, I thought you had to be in stealth in order to shadowjump. I'll have to mess around with that later.
     
  19. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    My favorite character at the moment is my stealth mage. I love the ability to safely infiltrate into the most dangerous places.

    If you hide, you will never be passively revealed, well unless a player walks directly on top of you. But since they get the "push through something invisible message", they'll know you are there anyway.

    However, even if you stand still without re-hiding, your chances of being revealed is alot lower too. The chance of being revealed seems greatest when you move. I initially thought that just staying still is the same as hiding, but I have been revealed before, so I believe WarUltima is correct.

    A few more tips - since you have ninjitsu, make use of smoke bombs when you are near hostiles. If you try to save smokebombs and use hiding instead of the smoke bomb, you better hope you were not aggro'd. Coz using the smoke bomb then will give you the "wait to use another skill" message, even though you can use the skill to immediately re-hide (as long as you break line of sight).

    Tip 2 - Shadow jump reveals your position due to the "puff" animation :) So don't think people can't see you. Unless you are using a diversation tactic, see tip 4.

    Tip 3 - Use invis in conjunction with hiding. When you get revealed after the invis, immediately hide (or smoke bomb). Very useful in certain situations (like looting aka "ninja"ing loot).

    Tip 4 - When running away, use walking speed to go 1 direction (if you are running, you always fail to stealth that first step after hiding), smoke bomb, then immediately change direction. Because your enemy last saw you running in a certain direction, they will think that you are still heading that way. It's how our minds work.
     
  20. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Interesting point! Yes, you need to be in stealth mode to shadowjump. So seeing as you can shadow jump continuously, you actually do not go into hiding mode after jumping, you remain in stealth mode.

    That reminds me, those "unseen" thingies in Khaldun have revealed me before when I shadow jump. But never when I hide.
     
  21. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, I really should use smoke bombs. I am of the mentality that I should carry less in my pack to make room for more stuff, so I tend to be minimalist (there is also less to rely on so it's less of a pain to reequip after being dry looted). Now that they stack it's only one drag and drop to grab more.

    I do reverse direction a lot, or circle around, come in from other sides, etc. It's funny to sneak off to the side just to watch the person chasing you run off the wrong way. :)
     
  22. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Play Siege, no passive reveal...win/win...la
     
  23. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    I'm also something of a minimalist. I currently just run with 3 DP pots and a stack of 5 orange pedals when I go to fel. It certainly is nice if I miss a spawn to be able to get about 20k off the ground for my troubles so its not a complete waste, but more than that I just die a lot and I don't want to bother restocking too much lol.

    I didn't know you played a stealth mage, Harley! That's exactly what I've converted this fellow into, except that he has fencing and poisoning instead of ninjitsu. I've found the dp fields to be great for champ spawns so far, and when I get cornered by a bunch of mobs I can just shadow strike a few times until I can walk out unmolested. Also makes it a breeze to check on the altar or change where I'm working the spawn without too much grief-- but I wouldn't play this char without an ethy.

    Is there a way to macro dismounting, btw?
     
  24. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    the only way to macro dismount with approved programs is with UOA click record double click yourself to get off mount click stop recording save it to a hot key
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    From the way I defended chiv, I think alot of people thought I played mainly as a warrior heh.

    *Narrator speaks in the background*
    But little do they know that his main is actually a stealthy spellweaving ninja-mage.
    *Evil laughter*

    I also play bards, tamers and crafters/merchant...so many templates and games to play, so little time...

    Yes, poison field is a great spell! But I use it only sparingly coz it auto reveals me when something takes damage from the field. I so wanted to add shadow strike, was designing a shadow strike tank-nox-mage template a couple of weeks ago, but never left the paper (ok, I was using excel) design stage...

    As GMeanie says, if you get UOA, you can macro dismount and mount.

    Tip 5 - If you have a configurable mouse, it works even better. I have one of my mouse buttons configured to play my smoke bomb macro, another to play my mount macro, and a third for my trapped box macro. Plus 2 more for arm/disarm macros. Can be used in conjunction with shift/alt/ctrl to selectively disarm whichever hand I need to, and select whichever weapon config to use.

    Tip 6 - Map your UO/UOA macros to keys (eg ins to arm normal weapon profile) or key strokes (eg alt+ins to arm alternate weapon profile 1). Record the key stroke macro using your Razor or G15 config utility. Tada, you don't have to worry if UOA can't detect your 8th mouse button, plus you can play the macro by using the keyboard. I use 1 button for ins, so if I hold alt on my kb and pressed that button on my mouse, it will send "alt+ins" to UOA, which arms my first alternate weapon profile.

    Tip 7 - You can mount an ethy while remaining hidden/stealthed to prepare for a rush (eg looting, idoc)

    Tip 8 - Don't use a polar bear mount if you plan on stealthing, every one will see "a polar bear" on their screens when you mount it while hidden. Advantages of playing with the wife :D
     
  26. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ok, I play a stealth thief. I am almost ALWAYS stealthing around or hidden. Yes, elves are annoying, hence me avoiding going next to them unless I need to. If I need to get right up to to an elf player to snoop them, i use shadow jump. I never get revealed while shadow jumping around.

    If you stand still, you do not get passively revealed, even in stealth mode. As far as i am aware, when you are in stealth mode and do not move, it's all fine and no different from hiding. I've been in stealth mode with a group of people walking/running all around me and nothing ever happens.
    The only way you would end up getting revealed while not moving is someone with detect hidden or you get damaged somehow. And yes, some people do have this skill. I do for one :D

    Bottom line:
    Elves are annoying, so void them. Stealth is fine.

    If anything, detect hidden needs some buffing. The target radius is just ridiculous now. And personally, the timer needs shortening. You reveal them and they can simply re-hide and stealth away by the time you can try to reveal them again.
     
  27. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    Some good tips there. I do the ethy one ALL the time. I almost never pop out of stealth intentionally when I'm not mounted.

    On the poison field note; I had thought the same thing, because I remember it happening on my necro mage (who also has poisoning), but its not revealed me yet while I stealth around.

    Viper; I don't know how you're so lucky, but I was just revealed last week while standing perfectly still at the bank in fel delucia by an elf that I had been doing a champ with. I know I was standing still because I had been standing there for a good five minutes, stationary, while talking in party chat with two people who got raided with me. Since we discussed templates, I know for certain she had no detect hidden. I'm not the only one this has happened to if you look up a bit.

    You know, I think I'm going to change my OP as a matter of convenience because people rarely read entire threads in u.hall... *edit*

    Anyway, what server are you on Harley? Maybe we should wreak some havok together! :gun:
     
  28. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, sometimes people don't read the entire thread, hehe.

    But yeah, perhaps I am just incredibly lucky because I have never been revealed while standing still in stealth mode when there wasn't someone who had GM detect.

    However I will go give this a test myself and see. Maybe the chance of passively being revealed while not moving is just very very low.
     
  29. Ravahan

    Ravahan Guest

    [​IMG]
    Stealth Devil owns you
    from out of nowhere
    In broad daylight


    I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist. I saw this on the site watermarked in the corner and I HAD to post it here.
     
  30. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Try to shadow jump amongst the unseen thingies in Khaldun. They tend to reveal me even if I don't take a single step.
     
  31. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    That guy appeared on TV before! German I believe. Been steadfastly supporting some competition race for several years.
     
  32. What happens when the stealth is an elf? Do elves still do the same to you?