1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

[sticky]GM Platinum on "blue" pet training

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Mordanna, Apr 25, 2003.

  1. Mordanna

    Mordanna Guest

    <font color=green>i'm happy to announce we got a verdict on pet training. the original post can be found here.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Platinum
    (Player Relations Lead, Origin Systems)
    04/25/03 09:40 AM

    Blue Pet Training

    It has come to my attention that there is some confusion regarding the situation with "blue" pet training. Our current policy on the issue is the GM staff will only take action if the training is done unattended. Our stance on this issue can change if we review the situation and determine there is an abuse of the game mechanics involved. If there are any changes made I will post an update to this forum.


    <hr></blockquote>

    Happy training! /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  2. I eez too slow :p

    Finally going to regain my mares meditation... too many deaths, too little time...
     
  3. A-ha! Thanks! /php-bin/shared/images/icons/laugh.gif
     
  4. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Quick, grab 2 magic using pets jump on a boat and train, train, train till they change their mind.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    wuhhuuuuu...finally they gave up and gave us the real deal.
     
  6. Lochen

    Lochen Guest

    Woot! thanks for keeping at them about this /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  7. Anyone know a way this is possible to do IF in a guild?

    Cant very well leave my guild when I am the GM of it, but I might for a week or so if its not possible to do otherwise.

    If anyone knows a way I can do it and still be guilded I would appr. the feedback.

    Thanks in advance

    Peace
    The Dread Lord Dracon Pendragon of Catskills.
     
  8. Deepwood

    Deepwood Guest

    it can be easy or hard when guilded, i generaly do this, i place them apart with a fence or somesort of pen with a door nearby between them and have them fight, i then issue stop commands to one and tell it to attack again, i then wait a bit and have them follow me to move them and one should be blue and then open the door and let them fight.
     
  9. I guess I just don't understand the way OSI makes policy.

    Training provoke and not being able to take damage=exploit.
    Training pets by having them fight and them not being able to take damage=okay.

    Am I missing something?
     
  10. Storm Blade

    Storm Blade Guest

    Yes you are... One is using game mechanics to train pets. The other is using player created situations to create a safe environment.

    Thats the technical side... really I dont see much of a difference. And I wouldnt condone anyone training provoke as long as they were not doing it un-attended
     
  11. The way I see it.....

    Both involve blocking the animals to prevent them from meleeing each other.

    If bards do it, it's illegal.
    If tamers do it, it's fine.

    Hey I'm not saying they should make it illegal for tamers, just that they should make it legal for bards too.

    I don't see why the bard needs to be in "imminent danger" to train skill, but I guess that discussion is best left for the bards' forum /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So what if you're only using natural situations to create a safe environment?, why is that an exploit thats even LESS bad than blue pet training.

    I wish OSI would just concentrate on fixing the REAL flaws and exploits...and to dam up against illegal 3rd party programs.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm trying to get a response on the barding situation from Platinum. I PM'd him today, so we'll see what comes of it...
     
  14. Jason

    Jason Guest

    As i see it, if you wander and find two dragons stucked and you provoke them you are fine. This is taking advantage of an existing situation.

    On the other hand if you create the situation yourself it is illegal.

    In the first situation they are probably able to damage each other, in the second you could be able to to place them out of teleport and magery range, thus having them forever.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would say it should be illegal for tamers too.. but since gm's think its not and i have a quote saying its not now i guess i'll consider abusing gm's ability to read the guidelines for what constitutes an exploit.. But they really need to remove any guidelines they have made so far about how you recognize what constitutes an exploit if they dont believe in using them and just ban people for buying hides on a vendor and let people exploit faulty game mechanics to get advantages that would not be intended
     
  16. I noticed this statement:

    <blockquote><hr>

    Our stance on this issue can change if we review the situation and determine there is an abuse of the game mechanics involved.

    <hr></blockquote>

    Somehow I think that the situation will change. I have the feeling that this type of training being allowed is because of all the hits they are taking, on pet skill loss and the difficulty in training magery and meditation, since the publish. I would not be surprised if the situtation changes if they revamp the skill loss and fix magery and meditation training rates.

    Just my two cents. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  17. Blue Pet Training

    It has come to my attention that there is some confusion regarding the situation with "blue" pet training. Our current policy on the issue is the GM staff will only take action if the training is done unattended. Our stance on this issue can change if we review the situation and determine there is an abuse of the game mechanics involved. If there are any changes made I will post an update to this forum.

    so blue pet training is ok
    as long as its not abusing the game mechanics
    and as long as its not unattended
    however i dont see this as a green light to jump on a boat and start training your blue pets
    its already stated that having pets melee and not take damage is abusing the game mechanics. if pets are separated and theyre casting magic on each other, thus damaging each other, then its not an abuse of game mechanics.
    bards could be provoking 2 magic casting monsters on each other, and as long as theyre damaging the other, then i doubt it would be an abuse of game mechanics.
    this statement to me does not really change the current situation at all.
     
  18. Mordanna

    Mordanna Guest

    <font color=green>lady, i have cited very specific examples in my message to OSI involving blue pet training, including explicitly stating that pets that are blue to each other do not take damage, neither from spells nor from melee, and as things stand currently, it is okay unless they tell us otherwise.

    to clear that up was the only reason for my efforts, and the answer is pretty straightforward. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  19. i dont know mordanna. i dont get the "everything is ok" from reading that post.
    after Sannios comments about what constitutes an abuse of game mechanics in "Sannio discusses Illegal/Legal Barding Practices" combined with Platinmums last comment "Our stance on this issue can change if we review the situation and determine there is an abuse of the game mechanics involved" im still not convinced that this statement is a green light to train your pets as such.

    If Platinums response was to such a letter from you, id feel more comfortable about what has been said. however when i look at that original post, it just appears to be a very general statement by Platinum with no reference to any specific inquiry.

    another thing. whos to say what a gm will consider "an abuse of game mechanics" on the day?
     
  20. Mordanna

    Mordanna Guest

    <font color=green>platinum made that public post after i asked for clarification. in my crequest i described in minute detail several training scenarios that people may be using ot train their pets (blue pet vs. blue pet, blue pet vs. summoned elemental etc.) and how they work (pets not damaging each other etc.).

    if you read the TOS for UO, you will see that they always leave some sort of back door open for themselves, which is understandable if you look at how some players like to argue when they are caught cheating.

    i'll just say here that if it wasn't ok, the reply would have been "no it's not ok and if a GM catches you doing it, you will get warned/banned".

    the way i am reading it is "for now it's okay, but when we have the time to research more what exactly you tamers are doing there, we might find that it isn't acceptable after all and then we will tell you so".
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I wish to hell they would make up their minds.....

    Thanks Mordanna. I better copy Platinums post, and save it I guess. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  22. flatscan

    flatscan Guest

    It's still not how training was intended, which to me is abusing game machanics. As stated for bards, a GM has last say regardless how many posts you can show them.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There is a difference between pet training and provoke training. My bard has yet to suffer skill loss upon dying, my mare does. Add to that meditate is almost never going to gain except on a boat. I'd much prefer to train through hunting, but with aos, the only way to keep up med and magery on my mare (which dies maybe once every couple weeks) is to spar it on a boat for an hour or so til it gets back to where it was.
     
  24. Dame du Lac

    Dame du Lac Guest

    Sorry to be rude to uo developper, but its obvious that blue pet training is just as the use of provo trick : taking advantage of badly made game mechanism. In tram u can't attack a blue, u just can't, unless ur guilded as the target is, in the same guild, then both get damage of the attack. It just seam this mechanism wasn't put for pet as well, what ever the reason is, this mechanism doesn't exist for pet, so pet can attack each others if they are not guilded, but the upper mechanism of tram (wich can't deliver damage between blue) exist.

    There are so many of consequences of those badly made mechanism that uo staff should put cops at every corner of the game, if they want to forbid them all, they just can't, so they accept some of those abuses. And they doesn't seam to be able to fix them all as well, unless they make a second version of uo, wich doesn't seam to be in their plan.

    So the debate doesn't go around the question, is it an abuse of game mechanism, but does uo staff accept to use this abuse of game mechanism. It is clear that they accept it for some time /php-bin/shared/images/icons/tongue.gif just as they accept to use provo tricks only with magical creatures... wich is in principe totally idiotic...
     
  25. Drgnfiend

    Drgnfiend Guest

    D'oh, if only I had a tamer that wasn't in a guild that frowned upon unguilding and reguilding.
     
  26. Atreus GL

    Atreus GL Guest

    so now that i know this is legal, i went out and did this with my ww and mare. funny thing.... they occasionally get poisoned. why is that? they shouldn't be able to take any damage. maybe the don't take damage from the poison? i haven't noticed because they keep on curing themselves right away.
     
  27. <blockquote><hr>

    the only way to keep up med and magery on my mare (which dies maybe once every couple weeks) is to spar it on a boat for an hour or so til it gets back to where it was.

    <hr></blockquote>
    You could *gasp* use resources and stay attended and actually heal the mare while it was fighting, instead of using a "trick" (renamed from exploit) so that they don't get damaged while fighting.
    Just a thought.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "You could *gasp* use resources and stay attended and actually heal the mare while it was fighting, instead of using a "trick" (renamed from exploit) so that they don't get damaged while fighting.
    Just a thought. "

    First, I take offense at your insintuation that I do this unattended. Second I take my mare out quite often. In 3 weeks of hunting its meditation stayed at 98.6. 30 minutes on a boat and it was at gm.
    Add to this the probability that a lag spike would cause it to die again and further drop its skills, I'll go ahead and boat away for a little bit to get him back up. Also given I have other pets to train (3 wyrms, 2 dragons all over 18 months old, and a gm wrestle, gm tact, not quite gm anat, high 50s resist beetle), I've no problem with using a boat to fix up meditation on my pet.
    On a final note, when 8x8 is considered an exploit, when rav's method can get you suspended, when fighting in the jhelom pits is illegal, then come talk to me about taking my pets sailing.
    just a though
     
  29. Actually, I've got no issue with using boats to train, 8x8, or any of that type of thing.

    It's just that I don't see how setting up animals not to damage each other to train the animals is okay, but setting up animals not to damage each other to train provoke is an exploit. Either both are, or neither are.
    It's clearly a double standard being set by OSI.

    Why use a "trick" to get your pets not to damage each other, rather than just healing them while they train?
    This doesn't effect me because any pvm I do, any training I do, anything I do other than sell stuff, is in Felucca. My pets "train" by going to champ hunts or to dungeons and killing stuff.

    I think the change that shows the exact skills of pets was a mistake, because suddenly everyone has to have "6xgm" mares and dragons or they won't take them out hunting. Then once they do reach that level, they still don't take them out hunting because he's "6xgm" and they don't want to risk skill loss. And it created situations like this, where people are (supposedly attended) setting their pets up to not damage each other and "fight" for hours on end.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would have been fine with not seeing specific skills on my pets, the old descriptions worked ok for me. But I can see the skills, and so I do prefer not to see them going backwards. I have 1 mare, I ride and hunt with it in all 4 lands. It is my pet, and I like to keep him at his peak performance. If I can get fix med in 30 minutes of boating vs a couple months of hunting, so be it. I do it for myself not for others, it effects no one elses game, but it will piss me off slightly less the next time a server hiccup steals skills from my pet.

    "It's just that I don't see how setting up animals not to damage each other to train the animals is okay, but setting up animals not to damage each other to train provoke is an exploit. Either both are, or neither are."
    This is not a straight comparison, tamers are not gaining skills their pets are. When their pet dies, they are going to lose skills, a bard will not.
    Its an apples to oranges arguement that just doesn't line up.
    Not that I care how a bard trains, with the introduction of buying pre-mades and jewelry, and skills being nerfed and altered every six months, I honestly couldn't care less what method someone trains with. Sadly, the idea of experience and adventuring being a factor in training skills has been greatly diminished.
     
  31. eXcalibur

    eXcalibur Guest

    its a game... get over it.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Which do you find more enjoyable? Real life TM or UO, which would you spend your time doing by choice? If either could be your reality...

    "It's a game... get over it." Is potenitally an answer to every, *every* EVERY rant ever made about computer games, ever, and thusly, is a pretty pointless answer, considering one would assume you yourself play/have played UO at some point?
     
  33. Lemia

    Lemia Guest

    "Why use a "trick" to get your pets not to damage each other, rather than just healing them while they train?
    This doesn't effect me because any pvm I do, any training I do, anything I do other than sell stuff, is in Felucca. My pets "train" by going to champ hunts or to dungeons and killing stuff. "


    For the same reason that people 8x8, powergame tailoring/smithing/carpentry/etc, and use training guides...because if you didn't, it would take more than a year to GM through normal gameplay (if not longer). Like the other poster said, you can hunt with a mare or dragon for weeks and gain a couple of .1s in meditation, or you can GM it on a boat in 30 mins. One is way too long, the other is too short. But with pets dying as often as they do now with skill loss, you can't take the long road. It just isn't feasible to have a pet with skills in the 50s.

    The old way worked not so much because you couldn't see their skills, but because they didn't lose skills. If they had lost skills on death, even if you couldn't see it, we still would have noticed our pets becoming weaker, and eventually useless. And anyway, there wasn't pet bonding, so if a pet died, you just went out and tamed a new one. But they didn't die that often because the monster damage back then was a whole lot lower. The fights were slower and you had more time to heal.

    The whole problem here is that
    pet skills growth from normal gameplay &lt;&lt; skill loss

    So really, even though this probably should be an exploit, until they fix pets to gain better or lessen skill loss, this boating thing is the only solution to having bonded pets. Otherwise, pets will be so weak within a few weeks of normal gameplay for the average player that tamers are going to have to go out and tame a new pets all the time, defeating the whole point of bonding and training.

    I mean really, 8x8 should be considered an exploit too. C'mon, like you're really supposed to be able to gain every 8 steps you move? That's such an abuse of game mechanics, knowing that for some reason, if you gain in one spot, you can move 8 forward/backward and gain again. It's taking advantage of something quirky in the coding. But they allow it because otherwise so many skills would take too damn long to finish. So they just leave it in. I think this is the same thing. Make the "exploit" legal because it's the only solution to messed up skill gain.

    Bards don't have the same problem. I had absolutely no problem gming my bard in a reasonable amount of time without any exploits. So they make it illegal to use the exploit.

    That's the difference.
     
  34. MightyValor

    MightyValor Guest

    Heres my idea guys, i nor agree or disagree but heres somthing to make you think, Smoke a little reefe then read what i got to say..

    Lets say your pets are good friendsa they grew up together, now they want to play fight because there like puppies, puppies dont get hurt form play fighting do they ?? So really your pets are just playfighting to gain skills. Just like Wolfs do in the wild ! no one gets hurt fomr it its just PRACTICE, they dont intent to hurt the other pet just to play fight !

    think about it now...