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Stopping 3rd party programs and the enhanced client

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I'm not sure where on earth the thread disappeared to but it was revealed that the Devs are going to crack down on the use of 3rd party programs.

    At first my reaction was, well great, but someone made a great point that using the enhanced client gives you pretty much the same speed as speedhacking.

    OK so why can't everyone who pvps use the enhanced client?

    The enhanced client is completely geared towards dexxers, i for one would love to use the enhanced client however i play as a mage. The casting times are longer and there is no range check last target, so everytime a player runs out of range, you have to recast the spell.

    Another issue, is that unless you use the new targeting system, there is no way to target next mobile, so why not just use the new targeting system? It doesn't allow you to hold the spell, it drops it automatically on the target (no good in pvp)

    Can't the devs just make the running speed the same in the enhanced client as 2d? then everything will be nice and fair...
     
  2. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Not at all, dexxers are simple in any client. EC is just much easier to set up and manage for all 'classes' than CC, doesn't mean that's what it's geared toward one in particular. I rarely play dexers and I find my other characters are just as well suited to the modern interface.

    Casting times are no longer, so I don't know where this comes from. EC is a speedhack but somehow casting is slower? It can only be one or the other. You should really try 6/2 casting if you're having issues, you'll never look back. As for casting ranges, this just comes with practice.

    EC does allow you to hold a spell, in several ways. Using current target defaults to a cursor if there is no target currently selected, the spell doesn't automatically drop if there's nothing to hit.

    Using spell target cursor + cursor target self / cursor target last, or any combination will allow you to drop a spell when and where you like, with greater flexibility than CC. You seem to be operating on assumptions based on how the client targeted several revisions ago.

    The only thing CC+UOA does better than EC is queue targets which, as we're talking pvp, is a moot point.

    The only way to make Classic Client run as fast or smooth as Enhanced Client would be to downgrade Enhanced or run it on a very old computer.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yes but the EC crashes my computer now... since the last couple of patches. I'm not sure what happened but when they "fixed" something it killed me using the EC... Now everytime I try my computer shuts off after only a couple of min... either from overheating or something else.
     
  4. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    I wouldnt hold your breath waiting for them to crack down on anything. Their zero tolerance policy from a while back has been a joke. Things have only gotten worse and to be honest will continue this way.
     
  5. OxAO

    OxAO Guest

    I have always been afraid of any zero tolerance(thought) policy.

    If it even looks like a 3d party program would be out.
    That would have to be very common.
     
  6. jfkeach

    jfkeach Guest

    If you read the recent letter from the Producer at mythic, here is what he said about cheats.

    "More importantly, something I know you have been waiting for – engineering has been working on speedhacking and 3rd party program detection. We’re closer each day to a solution, but are not publishing it until it’s solid."

    This was just the other day.
     
  7. lucksi

    lucksi Guest

    But how are they going to detect third party programs? Spy on our computers? Quite illegal here in Europe if you don´t agree to it. And do the terms of service say anything about that?
     
  8. jfkeach

    jfkeach Guest

    When communicating with a server, which the client running on your PC does, there is some handshaking going on in the background. They don't have to spy on your computer, just better interpretation of the communications to the server will tell them if the signal they getting is the client or a third party app.

    Yes, it would be easier for them to have the client scan running programs on your computer and let the client disable itself if it picks up the cheats. However, there are the legal issues you mention.

    The biggest reason this has not already been put into affect is that it will double the load on the servers. For every signal you send to it, there has to be an authentication process to make sure that it was the client sending it, and not some third party program. When they can tweak that to remove the throttling issues, it will come online. On a faster PC with good internet it would hardly be noticeable. But with an older pc on dial up or bad conn, it would kill the game performance.

    Right now the data stream is wide open, and it would require encryption to keep the cheat programs from being able to inject into that stream. That would require a lot of work on the part of the devs, and would also kill UOAssist, UOTamer and other commonly used acceptable programs.
     
  9. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    Easy fix for all these issues.... kill and burry the old client... make everyone play the new client.

    - Pros: More time to further develop the new client, no use for 3rd party programs, all players will have the same experience, new players wont be confused about client choice, scripters and cheaters from the old client will leave.

    - Cons: Lose a few die hard old client fans, that is not ready for change :)
     
  10. Fixed it for ya. :thumbup:
     
  11. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I was in the EC beta. It is (IMO) not as ready for primetime as the KR client it replaced. For me, the graphics stink and several good examples of what they COULD be were presented to the Devs and nothing has been done to improve them.

    Recent personnel changes also bring little hope that anything stellar will happen to EC for a while. OTOH, the CC has been quite stable for years.

    I currently have 6 accounts in use between myself, son and brother. Won't have a problem closing all of them if I am forced to use the current EC POS. Simple.
     
  12. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    While it is well known that the CC is the center of the issue getting rid of it and dooming us who wish nothing to do with the EC is not the correct answer.

    I'm all for allowing the well known script program to be "legalized". The cat's so well out of the bag its almost funny. 7 years or longer that baby has been walking around its nearly a teenager. Ban accounts for running complicated lengthy scripts which clearly are AFK(which they use to do when GM's actually ran around). Follow accounts who've been caught once before and given a warning ban them if caught. Group targeting systems should also have a look at but even those are a near non-issue. So you read a book while it tames, who cares?

    Speed hacking IMO is the bigger issue(or so I have seen as I preffer to PvP more then PvM). Everyone could script, and most do, but the speeding is absurd. Flying off the screen at the sight of death is comical, out running mounted players and other such events are the real issue IMO.

    My two cents.
     
  13. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    lol thanks :)

    But as I see it, its hard to find time for the devs to actually finish it while they also have to maintain the CC.
    Close the CC and the devs will have much more time to actually finish up the EC.

    And for people to claim that they willl close all their accounts because of a forced client change... well.. I think Ill have to see it to believe it.

    Dont tell me that you will give up years of work/playtime because you have to think and act a little out of your box... maybe some will demonstrate and actually close accounts... some of those might also find a relief in not having to play UO, but Iam pretty sure that most people will suck it up and continue playing.

    Change is hard, but in time you will adopt and perhaps even find the new client to be good enough or god forbid it... better?? :)
     
  14. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    i dont' get your post at all after the first paragraph. i'm not for allowing the well know program to be legalized. you are for this but not for the speedhack program. in my opinion it makes no difference. a cheat is a cheat. it's amazing to me how the pvp scene takes a siesta after any patch. amazing that a person won't play because their crutch that makes the elite is out of action.

    also as to your comment about reading a book while it tames. this also makes no sense. i would love to run uo all day while at work in the background while my miner or lumberjack or my trog killer goes about his day. you play the game. you train a skill. you take the pain and get it done. end of story. many people do it legitimately.
     
  15. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    The only PvPers that use scripts in PvP to cheat are horrible dexers who need their bandaids and potions automated.

    Otherwise, people use scripts to perform tedious tasks.
     
  16. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    in thinking this out a bit further i would also say the following.

    the argument could be that the mundane training of a script is not hurting the game where as the miner /lumber jack bot does as it skews the economy. i understand this logic.

    however both are considered to be illegal in the eyes of ea mythic. so the right way of getting a change is to petition the game masters to allow automated training of a character. however that will surely not sit well with a portion of the player base that has trained their skills manually.

    on some level ea gets this as there have been things added to the new client that make training skills somewhat easier. that being said however i don't think that ea would ever allow third party skill training as it really blurs the line as to what is allowed and what goes to another level.
     
  17. Sara1

    Sara1 Adventurer
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    Ok, for one, yeah, I much prefer the 2d look, but mainly... my computer/internet could not run the EC and I do not have the money to buy new computers for myself much less my whole family, so, yeah... there would be at least 10 here that would end because of technical issues.
     
  18. Splup

    Splup Guest

    To be honest, I don't see EA making EC good enough to replace UO-A in PvP, atleast in nere future, especially for mages.

    That's why I put my hopes on Tugsoft.

    Too bad we havent heard about that since. Getting UO-A to EC would deffo even the battlefield, giving honest players a chance to compete with speedhackers.

    So everyone who wants UO-A on EC, please send mail to tugsoft telling what you want on it and how badly you want it. [email protected]
     
  19. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    That is fair enough, but you cant really expect a game to be able to run on old computers forever. Times changes, so does hardware requirements.

    And if you want this game to run another 10 years and at the same time get more people playing it you have to draw a line at some time.

    All Iam thinking is, that if they scrap the CC they will have time to better the EC so that it can replace the CC and still keep most players happy :)
     
  20. If playing the EC means I have to adopt, then it'll never happen. I've got 2 girls already and they're more than enough of a handful without adding to the litter. :party:


    Oh, and by the way, I was in the beta from the very first round of selections. I finally gave up on it as it was unplayable by my standards due to the bugs that are still present.
     
  21. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I've been slowly closing account due to poor developer performance. I'm now down to 1 account from a high of four about a year ago. If forced to goto the "EC", I'll drop my final account.

    To put it bluntly, I flat out hate the graphics and visual layout of it. I try the EC once every month or so just for giggles and want to puke everytime it fires up.:stir: My computer runs it fine and smoothly. I just don't like it. If I had wanted to play Diablo, I'd load it on my computer again:pancakes:

    If the EC maintained the looks of the classic client, I'd almost consider full time use. I think someone posted recently about "EC should have just been a hi-rez version of CC".

    The other killer is there is no UOAM functionality in the EC. So as a PvPer, that is another strike against EC to me.

    I haven't played with any of the EC macros but another sticky point for me is having UO Assist macro ability: ie using specific objects(mounting an ethy for example), using classes of objects whether stacked or not (smoke bombs, explode pots, etc). Those are two macro functions in UO Assist that I use a LOT of and will not willingly give up.

    The other UO Assist ability I use a lot of is the sell agent. This is the save all for selling items. You can sell all items in a bag OR you can sell all of a specific type of item. Makes training scribe a LOT nicer when you can easily sell blocks of scrolls with one "vendor sell":thumbup:

    As for the "oh yeah, we force everyone to upgrade to EC and no cheats will exist"... please pass around some of what you are smoking.:mf_prop: The sad fact of the matter is that anytime a game involves competition, there will always be someone who will find a way to cheat.

    Lastly, don't try to blame having the CC being in existence for "lack" of EC development. From what I've seen in the past, EA has put a third rate effort into anything dealing with UO. The few things that I see having to be tinkered with in the CC at any time are:
    encryption - gotta change that when you change the server
    added graphics - they've been king of recycle graphics, why stop now:stir:
    added localization files - nothing big there
     
  22. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
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    Just curious as to what specifically you do not like about the graphics in the EC, since the EC is using almost all of the item art the CC uses.

    Do you not zoom out to the 1:1 ratio so the items/houses, creatures look right? Are you talking about the generic UI graphics?

    I really don't understand generic, blanket statements like this, but I can respect that you may "just not like it"... just because.
     
  23. I would guess all hacks can be detected on the server side regardless of the fact that the tools performing the actions are client side. This is true for sure on issues like duping, whereas macroing unattended is questionable.

    If they do need to monitor things client side (very possible as well), then it would have to be a part of the terms of service. If you disagree with the new terms of service you have the option to quit, so you aren't obligated to allow them to do so.
     
  24. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, the ToS does say stuff about spying on your computer (in a rather limited, reasonable way).
     
  25. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    For me, it is a two fold issue.
    1) The "diablo" feel to the interface. It isn't that I hate Diablo... but I am one of those 10+ year guys who like the "feel" of the classic client interface. The best analogy I can come up with is modern art vs classic art... the classic art has a "warmer" feeling to it.
    2) I think my general graphic issue is some of the graphic glitches and changes. Again, it is that "feel" thing. Hard to put entirely into words.
     
  26. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Right, but the problem is the advantage in PvP gained by running scripts to improve your character.

    Someone who is running scripts to work their skills, fill bods, get runic rewards, gather resources, make potions, farm gold, etc are still cheating and their ability to automate all the other aspects of the game which leaves them free to PvP to their hearts content all day long definately provides them an advantage in the PvP arena. People who do not cheat have to spend hours of their play time doing all the other aspects of the game in order to compete with the person who spends zero hours every day accomplishing those tasks.

    Ever wonder how some people seem to have everything in the game all the time and are able to spend 99% of their game time PvPing???

    Until EA finally steps up and makes cheat prevention their #1 priority, this game will continue to be dominated by those who cheat and IMO not worth playing.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That's why I am convinced that the way to go is work on the enhanced client and make it a "must have" for players. Not only fix the problems, but fill it with cool features that 2D does not and MUST not have so that, eventually, most players will migrate to the enhanced client thus allowing the shut off of the 2D client for good......
     
  28. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    Woot Popps! For once we agree :)
     
  29. Divster

    Divster Guest

    fyi these things can be macrod in the enhanced client, ethy just put in hot bar and assign a key, stackable items pots smoke bombs exactly the same, you can also dismount and remount pets!
     
  30. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Ahh... but I'm talking unstacked stackable items. For example, I run my pots AND smoke bombs scattered either singly or in small stacks. UO Assist has no problems handling this. No idea if EC handles it.

    But, given the graphics of EC, the point is moot to me since I won't play EC because of that and no UOAM tracking.:thumbdown:

    As for trying to force EC down everyone's throats, EA is gonna lose a lot of people than they will ever gain if they try that approach. There is too many features lacking or broken in it:
    - no linkable map (ie UOAM features)
    - non-classic feel (I don't have any desire for diablo feel to my UO)
    - bad graphics (paperdoll is horrendous for example)
    - too many bugs

    Fortunately, EA has bought a clue to this effect and supports classic.
     
  31. Divster

    Divster Guest

    aye i can sympathise, i've toughed it out and am loving the new client more and more i play it, and yes it works with items in several stacks, i make a macro and drop the pot/ bomb type in the macro option slot and even with pots that don;t stack (pre patch that fixed that issue) it continues to work, i also have the pots in one of my hotbars as that shows me how many i have beyond the heal/cure display uo assist has! the only thing right now that rwally annoys me about the new client is the sound effects you get in spawns, the dire wolf long drawn out howl gets vey irritating when there are 15 or so on screen lol

    uo am is an issue however but i have faith that the atlas/radar will be able to incorporate this function, it knows where healers are so it obviously has the ability to track certain things!
     
  32. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    So I'm wondering if people want support for the 3d client. If you have used the new 3d/enhanced client and want UOAssist for it what features are you specifically looking for or what new features would you like?

    Tug should look into what he can do with UI modding INSIDE the EC instead of or before continuing third party EXTERNAL work on the client (which indirectly helps the lesser desired external programs by keeping such a doorway open).

    There are probably PLENTY of ideas that can be done in the UI via modding that even modders haven't considered yet.
     
  33. Zero hours ROFLMAO.There are numerous ways to get everything you may need to play this game.99% of your time spent pvping is a great way to obtain what you need also.You would do best to step back and look at the game.Then maybe you can find your niche.
     
  34. Malador

    Malador Guest

    LOL are you ****ing serious. The enhanced client has some advantages I admit but otherwise it sucks.
     
  35. Malador

    Malador Guest

    Again I ask are you ****ing serious? Since when has EA ever held something back until it was solid?

    More bull****.
     
  36. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    The EC graphics do not look and feel the same. There's a huge difference to me. The CC graphics appear crisp and clear while the EC's seem faded out and don't fit in the same proportions as in the CC.

    Additionally, paperdolls in the EC suck as do mounts and mount movement. A horse's footsteps look all goofy as hell.

    Legacy backpack sucks. Nothing actually lands where you place it. Everything in it is too small.
     
  37. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    that's my "gripe" as well. the lack of crispness to the EC graphics causes me headaches after a while - forcing me to switch to CC. if I end up having to switch I might as well just stop using the EC. <shrug>
     
  38. GWAR_LS

    GWAR_LS Guest

    I think WOW is just wtf owning UO. Im just wonder why? Is it that they are speed hacking or scripting, maybe both or are they in Enhanced Client. LOL you tell me ****ing owned
     
  39. One of the things that appeal to the general population of UO is with some aspects of the game there is "Freedom of Choice". It may not seems like much to some folks but I would say that the majority of the players appreciate their right to make some of the choices in their play style.

    Choosing which client to use is one of the rare instances where we get to decide which we like better or what runs on our computers more efficiently.

    I believe there would be people who would simply give up the game if they no longer had this choice. It only makes sense that if some are having computer problems when they try to run the EC client, that after logging on and having problems every time they try to play the game, they would just chalk it up and look elsewhere for a game they could run without the hassle.
     
  40. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    I agree ..

    problem is the classic 2d client is outdated looking so given that the new client doesn't run smooth or look good and then if the new comers try the old client they get turned off all together because it looks old to must people..

    I for one love the feel and art in the classic client just wish they could clean it up and make the play window larger as well as add so of the features the new client has. I don't even have the EC on my comp any longer I gave up on it, not at all what thought it would be :confused: