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Stygian Abyss Warrior

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Playhardgopro, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. Here's an idea that's running through my head. I'd appreciate polite critique.

    The New PvM Warrior

    Necromancy 105
    Spirit Speak 120
    Fencing 120
    Parry 120
    Tactics 100
    Meditation 120
    Anatomy 35

    Elf in Wraith Form with a selection of slayer Leafblades.

    Obviously this template can be used now but, with the advent of imbuing, it will be much easier to create slayer Leafblades with stamina leech (the only strictly necessary mods).

    The template does away with Bushido and Chivalry to provide Med for mana to attach every time with Armor Ignore.

    What do you loose?

    Damage? No. Consecrate Weapon has no effect with Armor Ignore as you avoid their armor. Enemy of One and Honor damage? With DI 100 and a slayer, you are already at cap. And with perma-ARs... surely you can get much higher damage. Essentially, critical hits every time.

    Defence? Evasion and confidence are lost. But you are getting life leech of constant Armor Ignores and the defence of Feint. You won't miss them.

    Luck? Yes, you miss Honor luck but it's probably broken anyway.

    Whirlwind? Yes, but you can spam Wither. I think this would be less useful against crowds but stronger against Big Game.

    This template would be even more offence if you traded the Leafblade for a Hammer Pick or Longsword (but you lose Feint). It may be more effective to lower Med and SS to raise Anatomy and rely more on high damage mana leech.
  2. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    As someone mentioned in one of these threads, for PvM imbuing is worthless. You can't PoF an imbued item so your item turns into a disposable item due to the beating they take in PvM.

    This is especially true of weapons that take a beating. Armor maybe not so much... I'm JUST getting into PvM so I can't tell how often I'll need to repair my armor:coco:
  3. I'm not sure that I agree.

    It depends on what weapon you need. This template, with high stamina, would only need:

    Stamina leech

    On each weapon.

    Creating such a weapon will (probably) not be very expensive. And so, when you finally break it from repairing, you make a new one.
  4. I've run across a few SSI 30, 40 DI, 40 Stamina Leafblades today for 20,000 or so each. Pittance these days.

    The cost of imbuing 'Slayer' to that is the cost of a weapon you can use until it breaks (after 50+ repairs) a few weeks/months later.
  5. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    With no SSI, you are going to need 180+ stam. Possible but equipment hefty on an already hefty requirement.

    As I said, by imbuing weapons, you are making disposable weapons. In heavy use, I can see having to replace a weapon at least once a week;)

    The other thing to keep in mind is weapon specials double in cost if used more often than once every three seconds;) So first AI is going to be 30 mana and the next will be 60 mana before any reductions.

    Related to this, unless you are human, you are looking at only lowering special move cost by 5 mana. Fencing and parry are the only skills on your list that lower mana cost that way.

    So, with the mana costs above, you'll still need hit mana leech on your weapon. On my shard and with my luck, I have only seen a few leafs that had hit mana leech and hit stam leech on them and no real good mods besides(no SSI, no HLA, etc).
  6. I was under the impression that you can't use feint unless you have bushido or ninjitsu?

    Also, with no EOO, no honor, gm tactics, and such low anatomy, even if you switched between a hundred slayers your damage would still not be comparable?

    I'm just entering into this pvm world again, so I may not know best, but I think losing chiv and bushido is going to hurt.

    I think imbuing will have a nice impact and will help pvm'ers, but I don't believe that it will be the end all solution to anything.
  7. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I do not see how you will spam Armor ignore with limited mana, no mana leech. Even if you have say 100 or more mana, then you will use 18 the first hit, 36 the second hit, and you do not have enough for a third hit (would be 72 tho). Also mind as well go with one of your other weapon idea's since you need (50?) Bushido or ninja to use feint.

    You will also lose damage but that is not really that big of a deal if you are playing for fun (which I think everyone should do)

    Also feel as if the 35 anatomy is wasted, but can not think of anything else to use there.
  8. Jesusislord

    Jesusislord Guest

    I just currently replaced a similar template with something else. I had magery instead of Parry, and Swordsmanship (Archery at one point).

    I'd post the details of my battle with a Hiryu (Greater), but when I tried jousting it, and it brought my 105 health to about 20 in one shot, from there on out it was just a lot of poison strikes and a couple of strangles and pain spikes. I was wishing I had eval so I could put my dragon slayer spellbook on and blast away.

    I found the best warrior template to fight something in Melee vs Melee is Ninjitsu, or Bushido. For something that casts spells, I'd prefer having Chivalry with either.

    But.. I'd suggest a different template, one with archery.. then I could drop the parry and get resist. Slayer Bow, with curse weapon.. the damage you'll do to their stamina with not only the armor ignore shots, but with pain spike and poison strike would make for some nice strangles, all while standing back and healing the spell damage they inflict on you with every shot, or with spirit speak, is very nice indeed. And it's a lot easier to Spirit Speak from afar, then it is from up close. Not to mention the spell fizzles that will be avoided.

    But that's just my opinion.. personally I'd just whip out my tamer and stand there watching my dragon fight.
  9. kantoska

    kantoska Guest

    Cloak when you are in wraith form when you do damage you leech mana... So the huge numbers from AI would be put right back into mana, theoretically making it possible to chain it.
  10. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    I don't see why you want to use 35 anatomy? Is no point. If not running with healing, it's pretty much not needed. Would get more bang for your buck by having 35 chivalry and a few +chivalry jewelry to get up around 50 or so.

    Other than that...you need a huge mana pool for this template.

    Last but not least, and the biggest hole of the template is the fact that feint does not work without ninjitsu or bushido.
  11. I agree - oversight by me. Fient does not work. And Peerless don't have corresponding slayers?

  12. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Except he has to relying on Vamp in order to leech life, so no. (yes I know he posted he would be in wraith but he would find quickly enough he has to heal somehow)
  13. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    No, well...Shimmer,mel, and travesty have Fey, so limited to one weapon there. The others do not. Oh dread horn is also fey.
  14. Actually I assumed Wraith + Curse Weapon.

    Might be better to drop Parry for Bushido. Considering most people here were doing peerless without feint or Hit Lower Attack, perhaps you could sub those two in in place of Parry?

    That means no need for slayers (Honor + DI + AI).

    AI will cost 18 and then 36 mana (LMC 40).

    So the question is whether 120 Med and AI with Wraith Form is enough to spam AI (remembering that you can fall back on LS if you add in the Bushido as discussed).
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    ahh curse weapon, ok. You could just AI ls ls ls AI to alleviate the 3 second rule (I think its a 2 second rule but might be 3 seconds) or even just AI ls ls AI (since that should be about 3 seconds) you should leech enough mana each hit for you to be able to do this pretty much all the time. I am not sure if feint and hla will be enough to replace parry, so I will leave that up to you and others to decide.
  16. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    It's an interesting concept. Almost like a pseudo-vamp necro warrior minus being a sampire per say.

    What kind of defense chance increase are you running with this?

    I'm not sure what your premier focus is with the template, but with bushido it's viable.

    I assume you're running 100% LRC?
  17. Actually I'm not running it.

    I just thought one day that the real way to do warrior PvM would be to get the most out of Armor Ignore.

    It negates the need for Consecrate Weapon. It should does loads more damage (so the natural choice was to go Wraith with Curse Weapon to benefit from this extra damage).

    Ideally you would keep Parry but it is true that people were doing Peerless without Feint and HLA (and those combined must me similar in effect to parry).

    Try to keep Bushido for Honor damage (100 DI right?).

    If, with all this in place, it is worse that the standard Sampire then no reason to bother... but if the leech (from AI damage) + 120 Med could let you almost spam AI, then surely your damage would be higher than most current Sampire builds?
  18. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 13, 2005
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    Why not just add Self repair to an item your imbueing?
  19. Can't have Self Repair on non-Artifact weapons, so can't imbue it either.

  20. Edit: Misread. Apologies.
  21. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    It's thoughtful tactics but...sampire was almost like the bush. warrior I used to run back in the day. See the thing is, is the important concept of having knight of honor and perfection. It is really not uncommon to get hits of over 300 with this type of concept.

    While you have nice ideas...it won't tough the perfection concept. Special moves use tons of mana. Mana you will ultimately need some for these reasons (if using bushido):

    1. Confidence when poisoned to offset some HP before casting cleanse of fire (is one tactic I use). Basically depending on HP and situation, it saves having to use a bandage. Irrelevant in your case though since no chivalry.

    2. Confidence when near death.

    3. Lighting strike. Very important. Just this concept I will out damage you if you did not run with bushido.

    I could list more but not sure the point right now.

    Even having the lowered mana cost effects by say having 120 parry, 120 weapon and 120 bushido, you would still be using 20 mana on an armor ignore. You could factor in capped LMC and still it would be a pretty penny. Even with 120 meditation...you would not keep up (if constantly spamming weapon moves).

    The only way I see it working on a consistent basis is:

    A. Your specific fighting tactics

    B. Setting a meditation macro and timing it as necessary.

    By the way, what types of mobs do you expect to farm out of this?
  22. I intended it for single target, high end monsters. Peerless and such.
  23. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Where the hell did you get 50??

    Any sensible crafter it would be 255!

    you cant POF after imbuing but whats stopping you make a iron weapon (with the 40DI) and forting it up then imbuing???
  24. Ah yes, smart.

    On a tangent (ha) wouldn't it be great to add in Ninjitsu into a Wraith form template! Perhaps in place of Parry?

    Could you not just spam Mirror Image + feint + dci + parry = probably never get hit?

    Plus if you had high HLD on your weapon you could open with Focus Attack to lay it down first hit.
  25. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    But you said instead of parry, so you have to remove parry from the equation. Focus attack is not a bad idea tho over all. Not sure if it would be better than bushido tho.
  26. I've never used Mirror Image. I read in a thread that at 120 Ninja, it absorbs damage 90 per cent. of the time? I presume it works without Hiding and Stealth and has to be recast every time it absorbs in this way.

    And it is 10 mana (6 with LMC) to cast? Would casting it often get in the way of casting Lightning Strike? If not, would it not be better to sub Ninjitsu in for Parry on all templates that don't rely on a mount?


    Elf, Wraith Form

    120 Bushido
    120 Ninja
    120 Macing
    120 Spirit Speak
    60 Necro
    [60 Chivalry]
    120 Tactics

    Enemy of one. Curse Weapon.

    Possible to spam Feint, Mirror Image and LS?

    Or, if balancing Karma is too hard, have Anatomy to replace to replace some of the damage lost from CW/EEO:

    120 Bushido
    120 Ninja
    120 Macing
    100 Spirit Speak
    60 Necro
    100 Anatomy
    100 Tactics
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    It draws the attacks to the mirror images 90pct of the time the monster tries to hit you, this will lead to alot more spamming of mirror image than if you just had parry, but it would decrease your chance to be hit to something like....not sure would need a good formula, but I am guess less than 8pct if you can keep up the images.
  28. Zyron

    Zyron Guest

    Where do i read all of this stuff about SA, because i dont know anythinga bout it and i dont know where to see it.

    and whats imbueing.

    and ill prolly get flamed but ABC archer?
    i know the temp but dont know what it stands for
  29. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    ABC = Archery, Bushido, Chivalry.
  30. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    In theory yes, but as far as practicality?...no. Some of the monsters have kept the old coding and so basically when you think you won't get hit, you will.

    Plus, you can't mirror image and feint at the same time. Wraith form = not moving fast. And against most high end mobs and peerless like you want to farm...a lot of them move fast. Not a good idea if you get in trouble. You would like to get away fast.
  31. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Oct 9, 2008
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    I know in theory it would be nice to have like a psuedo mix of a final fantasy ninja and a sampire uo warrior. It's just it is not possible. You can deflect melee attacks but magical attacks pretty much you are still vulnerable to.

    Additionally, since my main FFXI job was ninja, I could alternate mirror image spells (there is a 4 set one and a 3 set one), and mix in enfeebling spells with it and depending on the mob...never, ever, ever get hit.

    The closest concept of that was before the PUB 46 with the evasion spell on bushido. It was fun to play a sampire back at that time by the way. Even with 4/6 casting...if you are playing honest, you will have trouble since this isn't like Lineage II where I can have one spell continuously toggled and then be doing other spells simultaneously. It just doesn't work like that here in UO land.

    The quickest ways to heal are chivalry (38 or 39 or so w/high karma), bandages which heal almost twice as many HP, confidence which does quite well on a situational basis, and animal form (can't cast other spells though). Spirit speak is so-so and same with curse weapon (okay all things dependent).

    I'm not saying it can't work, but on principal it is difficult to do when thinking outside the box of a sampire/or sampire similar type of warrior. Especially when discussing the realm's of peerless.

    Up to the realm of regular mobs and high-end mobs...yes, completely feasible.
  32. CroMag1980

    CroMag1980 Guest

    Can you summon mirror images when you're in one of the necro forms? You also have to be on foot to do so right?

    It seems most sammys work heal/anat into their temps so there should easily be room for 120 ninja eith 50 ep should someone want to try it. It seems mirror image on a sammy with parry could be a form of melee evasion as an emergency measure with a high chance of success for a cost of what 6 or 7 mana....

    If nothing else this might be useful for a training sammy like me who wants to PLAY from gm onwards not grind to 120's then start playing.

    *edit just tested on test - meh it's ok would be more useful if they took a few more hits. Basically it seems to be originally designed so you could hide easier and is probably best used for that.