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Stygian Abyss

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ivory Norwind, May 8, 2009.

  1. Ivory Norwind

    Ivory Norwind Babbling Loonie
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    I have understood that Stygian Abyss is an "expansion" of KR client. But 2D is supported. What it means? Uoassist still works with 2D Stygian Abyss?
    Thanks!
     
  2. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    I can't imagine that it wouldn't?

    The expansion itself is purely game systems and content. The updated SA client (replacing KR) is coming out at around the same time.

    We've been polishing the expansion for both, since the expansion supports both graphic modes. No changes to the 2D client, just the usual new monsters and terrain :)
     
  3. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    So is the 2d client no longer being updated? Some additional macro commands would be nice.
     
  4. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    There's nothing that needs changing in the 2D client. It's already perfect.
     
  5. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I believe there was a plan to add 'make number' and 'make all' to the crafting menus. Is that shelved or deferred?
     
  6. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Macro commands, mousewheel button support, showing hci/dci etc, I'm sure I'm forgetting things.
     
  7. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Ah.

    The engineers rewrote the gump system for SA to use generic gumps wherever the Legacy client did. So, things like the Crafting menu, Virtue gump, etc - everything that isn't "baked in" as a UI feature, now looks the same as the Legacy version.

    Right now, that means that the crafting system works the same in SA as it does in Legacy, losing the "make number" and "make all" features. However, it's on our task list to integrate into both clients, so both Legacy and SA will have the advanced crafting functionality.
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Hopefully before the client goes live? Very few crafters use 2D for crafting without the benefit of UOA fulfilling exactly those two functions. Clicking 'make last' for any length of time is not conducive to good health.
     
  9. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    None of this is needed.
     
  10. No, but what is needed is some way to break unofficial 3rd party support. OH, and maybe some of the bugs, like the recall crash bug that comes to mind. OH, and maybe support for large wide screens and higher resolution.
     
  11. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Play Siege and you will never have that crash problem again...la
     
  12. Ivory Norwind

    Ivory Norwind Babbling Loonie
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    Sorry Draconi but i understand english not very well.
    You mean that 2D it's the same that now?
    It seems a stupid question but in Italy internet connections are very very bad. Only in big cities there are large band working well. So, i can't use KR because I have some lag ( a lot of lag :( ).
    I love 2D, but it's not the real problem. For me it's important that the 2D support of SA doesn't affect the internet connection like KR.
    Thanks!
     
  13. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    That will be needed for all clients, not just 2D.

    Agreed.

    Agreed again. I play, or have tried to play, UO on my 52' flat screen and it doesn't look good at all. That's 2D and KR though. I have tried it with both.
     
  14. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Ivory, there are 2 new things. The SA client, which will replace KR is the first.

    The second is the Stygian Abyss expansion, which will be like Samurai Empire and Mondains Legacy - bringing new lands, new skills and new items to explore. You will be able to go there using the 2D client just the same as you can now go to Tokuno or the ML dungeons.
     
  15. KR looks great on my 22" wide screen, but the 2D is horrible in windowed mode, and leaves large useless areas on either side in the full screen mode. I believe it was mentioned that this is going to be fixed with SA.

    Funny thing is, my 22" wide screen costs about half of what my first 13" paper-white monitor that I played UO on in '97.

    *Listen young adventurers while I tell you about the time I had to drag my computer 5 kilometers to Brit and back, UP hill both ways! You didn't have no stinkin' packy mules to help neither, and nobody never heard of golems to beat of for some silly skill gain. And gold! Got me 12 gold from a mongbat once after it half killed me, and I was glad... GLAD I am telling you to get that! And DRAGONS... now, they was somethin' to be a-feared of! You young dexxers nowadays are some spoiled kids, getting a 1,000 gold for killin' some stinking easy critter. You don't know how easy you's got it now.*

    *kicks a rock of black coal*
     
  16. Sir_Bolo

    Sir_Bolo Sage
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    Agreed completely.
    "form follows function"
     
  17. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    So if i am understanding correctly SA client (the replacement for kr) will NOT have the current KR crafting menu losing the make number option? if so this is a bad bad bad idea in my opinion! this is one of the main selling reasons of kr for me losing these functions will lose a lot of the interest in this client for me!
    sure I will try it but I think alot of people will feel this way!
    Thank god for uo assist
     
  18. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Ah, sorry, let me clarify: at this very instant it doesn't, but we're planning to have it in for both Legacy and SA by launch.
     
  19. Heh... gotta watch your wording here in UHall. :D
     
  20. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    oh thank you for clarifying that I was almost getting to panic mode lol
     


  21. So does that mean there will be two downloads? One for SA client with the expansion and a download for 2d users that want access to SA? Or will the content be patched to the client like Mondain's Legacy was and all that will be needed is an upgrade code?
     
  22. christy1221

    christy1221 Slightly Crazed
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    Awesome. Thanks :thumbsup:
     
  23. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I'm happy that finally I won't need UO Assist anymore, once the SA client has been released. (KR made UOA obsolete already, if it only would have been playable.)
     
  24. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    For me, since I already paid for it, I don't mind that I still use it. That being said, there are things UOA provides that KR doesn't. My fav is the ability to pick up regs off the ground with a single click of the macro key...la
     
  25. Infiniti

    Infiniti Guest


    This is great news! My crafter thanks you muchly. :D: :thumbsup:
     
  26. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    Amen! LOL Ahhhh, the good old days.......
     
  27. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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  28. Lets see....
    cheats
    scripts
    sh!tty 1997 graphics (get with the 21st century please)
    usable macro system
    have to run 2 other programs (UOA and UOAM) to get functionality.

    [sarcasm]
    Yes, I guess it is perfect.
    [/sarcasm]
     
  29. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Thank you for the clarification.
     
  30. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I really like the 2D graphics. Old does not mean crappy. New does not mean awesome.
     
  31. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    KR will have cheats.
    KR would eventually have scripts.
    [insert 2D and KR graphic comparison here, KR loses]
    2D macro system was more powerful last time I checked. I think they added functionality since then.
    All UOA and UOAM functionality could have been added to 2D client.
     
  32. My point is that 2d has had 12 years to get where its at.

    Everyone dismisses KR/SA after a few days/weeks. Imagine 12 years of KR/SA. I guarantee it would be 100% better than 2d ever could be.

    And yes, I play 2d but Im not going to be so adamant about keeping it around. Its time for everyone to move on or we are always going to be left behind.
     
  33. Ivory Norwind

    Ivory Norwind Babbling Loonie
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    Petra it's ok. Now i've understood :)
    Thanks!
     
  34. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Ok, I like 2D as well, I've since upgraded my graphics card and KR is fine. I"m going to go on that same small limb that others have gone on and say this.."If you're a staunch 2d only, I"ll never play anything else yada yada yada, it is my PERSONAL OPINION, that you are an xxxxUO user, and you're only saying this because it only works with 2d. You can chime in and deny it all you want, but everyone that reads these boards knows fully well why you don't want to move away from 2d. If the programmers at xxxxUO somehow figured out how to get their illegal program to work with KR/SA, you would all be dropping 2d like a hot rock, and you know it. Enough already....yes I used to knock KR, but only because it was literally unplayable for me...that's the only reason.
     
  35. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Draconi. I hope the new client is PvP friendly. Currently the KR client doesn't have a target next combo. It does have target next hostile and friendly, but in a pvp environment, everything isn't just blue and red.

    I would like to see a better macro setting for weapons, where I don't have to use a 2-3 key macro to swap weapons. It would be nice to switch out weapons as a mage casting various spells.
     
  36. As far as the weapon macro, it's only a single key in KR, and almost instantaneous. Worried about switching from two handed to one handed weapon? Make sure you put in a command to remove anything from both hands first. Easy as pie and a single key for every weapon. PM me if you need help with that.

    AND, targeting friendly/hostile in KR - use a separate macro for each and you can toggle through either or both pretty darn fast, and be pretty certain which you are targeting. Not sure what you are asking for if it isn't that.
     
  37. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    There's nothing that needs changing in the 2D client. It's already perfect.

    +

    None of this is needed.

    +

    UOA :heart:

    =

    FAIL

    If 2d were "perfect" and didn't need anything else... why are you using UOA?

    As for KR, the custom UIs and the Modders Exchange were developed because KR was NOT perfect, nor have we ever said that it was.
     
  38. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Kingdom Reborn launched almost 2 years ago. That has been plenty of time. There were just a lot of bad decisions made. Draconi went over one recently with the radar and mapping system. Another was the crafting menus which had to be completely redone after launch.
     
  39. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The radar map, yeah, that was bad, however the crafting menus as they are RIGHT NOW in KR are one of its best aspects (blows the 2d system out of the water).

    You are forgetting that aside from updating BOTH clients for scenario stuff there has NOT been ANY significant work on KR done in over a year due to the move from CA to VA and the change in the dev team makeup.

    SF is correct and you (as usual) JC leave out pertinent information to make your argument against him (not to mention just being outright wrong on one aspect (the crafting menu)).

    KR does have itrs problems, but let's be intellectualy honest about what they are.
     
  40. 2d was far from perfect 2 years after launch. And it still is.

    KR hasnt had any major updates in over a year. Mostly just content updates and minor fixes.

    But yes, I agree KR was rushed. I dont want the same to happen with SA. Hopefully the Devs put enough usefulness into SA that 2ders will need to switch (or at least give it an unbiased try) to compete. 2d is not the be all end all of Ultima Online.

    Personally, I dont care what client anyone uses. To each their own. But there is no reason for all the KR/SA bashing. Youre not going to change anyone elses opinion nor will I change yours.

    :)
     
  41. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Not sure about KR, but I do know that WoW has script tools as well. It took me about 5 minutes just now to find a tool that lets you afk all the way up to level 80. If they can do it there, and they can, I don't get why people think they won't be able to do it with KR or SA if they needed to.

    KR isn't 'cheat proof' to say the least. SA won't be cheat proof either. Using some made up fuzzy logic saying that anyone that prefers 2D over KR or SA does so just because of some 3rd party tool is ridiculous to say the least.

    Let the baseless accusations begin.
     
  42. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I have stayed away from the 2d = you just want to use a cheat program argument because I do not think that it in anyway bolsters the KR argument in the least. On this you're correct D'Amavir, if KR were the main client, it would have exploit programs to go with it before long (as would/will SA for that matter), so to me it has always been a moot point and one I disagree with other KR users about.

    My stance is on a more philosophical level and less of a "{New client} will be cheatproof" level simply because that's an argument that defies reality.
     
  43. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    That was still a lot of time wasted. The original menu was gigantic, yet showed almost no information. It had big buttons with no text telling you what they did. You could only see a very limited number of options and had to scroll with a small interface. It was just a giant step backwards from 2D. The new menu is better.

    That move happened 6 months after Kingdom Reborn launched. The release was a total disaster. The expansion was put off indefinitely and the team was rushing out patch after patch to fix client bugs. The client clearly was not ready for launch, with even the most vehment KR supporters still calling it a "beta". However that does not discount it was live and being mass rejected by players. So business took over and the team was shipped off to Mythic.

    Do I really need to try and dig up a screenshot of the original menu? I think I have it somewhere. It was akin going from a touch-tone telephone back to a rotary.

    I don't intentional leave out any information.
     
  44. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I feel ya. Personally, I have much more respect for people when they say things like "such and such client is better because...." as opposed to "you just hold onto 2D because you want to be able to cheat".

    I wish 3rd Dawn had been a better client (to me) but it just wasn't. Same with KR. Some people love it. Some hate it. I just don't like the way it looks enough to give up the client that I do like the look of. Pictures of SA have been a mixed bag to me. Some of the backgrounds and areas look good but the actual players look weak to me. Of course, that could change by the time its released. I will be trying it on launch day so I can know for sure.
     
  45. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    So, SA is basically KR 2.0?

    Oubviously the SA expansion includes more content, but is the SA client basically a reworked, bug free (hopefully) version of KR?

    That was the point, right? KR is beautifull, but the list of bugs/glitches is light-years long. SA hopefully fixes all (most) of these?
     
  46. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    To me, it's a matter of "does the game fit current technology?".

    The very nature of MMOGs/persistent worlds is that they are built in such a way that they never end, and due to that, they are constantly changing (UO more than most if only due to housing, but it's been well beyond just housing).

    The thing to me is that an MMOG can also change its technology to keep up to date with the timeframe in which it operates. In my experience, the 2d client, while it was good when it was released, is woefully out of date. It doesn't scale to higher resolution effectively, the animation is inefficient (for the record, so is KR because they tried to compromise between the 3d system and the 2d system, KR is marginally better thanks to more frames, thus smoother movement in the animation), the containers are miniscule (by the same token, while KR's are larger, the difference in how the items place compared to 2d is an issue), and many minor interface effects that KR has improved upon.

    Now, because I did say earlier that I have NEVER stated that KR was "perfect", I will say that the following I find to be issues with KR as it is right now:

    1. The minimap. Yes, that was a mistake.
    2. Targeting. The targeting system in KR is incomplete, plain and simple.
    3. Item (namely equipment/clothing) artwork. It was a HUGE mistake changing the clothes, armor and weapons artworks simply because those relied on familiarity and they simply changed the item artwork in KR TOO MUCH to the point that several items look NOTHING like their Legacy counterparts. This creates confusion and thus rejection.
    4. Dropping items on the ground or on NPCs. While I do know a workaround to make it work, this should have been working a LONG time ago

    and the BIGGEST issue with KR:

    5. The devs stopped working on it. This has been a HORRIBLE habit of the UO team for YEARS now about starting things and leaving them unfinished. WHo knows how many storylines, Virtues, now TWO clients (not counting at least THREE clients or sequels that never made it off the ground). The lack of improvement to KR from the devs isn't a failure on KR's part, but a failure on the devs' part. As Draconi pointed out, they reverted the crafting gump in SA to be the same as 2d. ALL of the improvements in KR are GONE (as of right now). That's not fixing anything.

    I feel that if UO were TRYING to get new people they would have continued to work on the KR client and graphics because no matter how much we may like the 2d client, it's NOT going to sell any boxes priced at $30-50 on the shelves. The graphics are too old, non UO players will pass them up time and time again.

    Ya know, as much as I PERSONALLY believe that UO would do better to take the risk and close down 2d, finish KR and run on newer technology, I also agree that people should be able to play the client they favor, in which vein, all I want out of the SA client is to retain the advances that KR made and at least give us the OPTION of using the newer KR graphics (much like KR has the option of using Legacy graphics). That's all I want. I've gotten familiar, comfortable, and happy at the way UO looks in KR when I play it, and like the 2d players, I don't want to lose that due to the whining of the anti-KR Luddites like some of the posters in this thread (not you D'Amavir, others), because in my mind, they are the worst advertisement UO can offer for itself.

    I don;t want to sit here a year from now wondering what potential has been lost.
     
  47. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The original menu was gigantic, yet showed almost no information. It had big buttons with no text telling you what they did. You could only see a very limited number of options and had to scroll with a small interface.

    And that menu is LONG GONE, thus a non-issue anymore. Want to discuss KR vs 2d, let's discuss where it is RIGHT NOW, not a menu that was replaced almost 2 years ago, unless you want to compare to the ORIGINAL 2d crafting "menu" which was a side-scrolling nightmare.
     
  48. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I didnt say that all 2d users are cheaters. I myself happen to like the 2d client as well. I was referring to those posters, and they know who they are, that simply say, "If they do away with 2d I'll quit", but they never give an explanation as to why they won't give KR a chance. I gave it a chance, with a crappy video card, and it failed. I came here and posted such, and once I replaced the card, and was able to successfully log in and actually explore, I came here and said so..but I stand by my "opinion" , and it's just that, my opinion....
     
  49. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    While some may want a completely redesigned 2d client and others want no changes at all, I think the majority would really enjoy just a few minor changes. Although it's funny that the devs commented on the crafting menu but not anything else. I don't think any of these ideas are too hard to implement aside from the window size (but damn that is seeming more and more important with today's monitors).

    To summarize:
    -A few new macro commands/options. Let us assign a macro to the mouse wheel button and/or the mouse wheel itself.
    -A larger play window size.
    -Fix a few of the crash bugs.
    -A few display additions that KR has such as hci/dci.

    Again I'm forgetting things I'm sure.
     
  50. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    LOL, about as perfect as a 57 bel-air........actually, the 57 would be better. At least todays cars can't be compared to it by looks alone.

    2D is so antiquated it can't be sold in stores. Scripters &cheaters have a free for all, and the economy went sour years ago.

    2D(ead)