1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Suggestion for UHall - move unwanted threads to SNR

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Old Man of UO, May 29, 2012.

  1. Whenever a thread gets locked on UHall, it's usually because it gets overly trolled. Whenever this happens, the Trolls win.

    Suggestion - move the threads to Spiels And Rants.

    Some people will do whatever they can to get threads locked to keep from discussing ideas they don't like, by trolling, calling ideas stupid, and not allowing discussion of ideas however unpopular. And they win by getting the threads locked. I'm not suggesting that trolling be allowed, just suggesting allowing discussion of these ideas somewhere, if not UHall then perhaps SNR.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  2. Sauteed Onion

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    512
    I've played some obscure titles, with low populations, but spent a lot of time with UO and Lineage II (which recently went F2P so population is surging) but seems like most of the time it's the same like 15 people (in some cases less) that talk about something. And like 11 of those 15 are "notorious" trolls. Randomly though a new person enters the forums.. and is then trolled out of existence. I suppose what I'm trying to say is cinnamon rolls are tasty. Try some. Meow.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    Yes, GalenKnighthalk. Though it is not much of a limb you are out on...
     
  4. Just because you can troll a thread or ideas you don't agree with doesn't mean you should. You don't have to post, or even read the thread, rather just simply pass on by.

    I'm only suggesting that there are better alternatives than locking threads. Thread lock is always a last resort.
     
    Nimuaq and Sevin0oo0 like this.
  5. Sauteed Onion

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    512
    In the hopes that people who are asking for shard mergers actually read this, it may be time to just take an e-stroll through the ol' EA store and get a transfer token and perform your own kind of merger. It may get expensive if you transfer ALL your characters off the shard in question but take one over to say, Atlantic. We're brimmin with people and have active communities for pvp/pve/rp/crafting/merchanteering/and even room to plop houses down. And we're also 40% friendlier than an empty server!
     
  6. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    Sabotaging a thread in UOstratics has been all too easy. I've seen numerous threads I've enjoyed reading locked...many times it's the same moderator. I can't count the number of threads that moderator has locked.

    All is takes is for one person to start mudslinging and we get the "this thread has gone on long enough"or "I'm closing this now".

    There should be more deleting of posts and issue of warning to players who continue rather than outright locking of threads.

    It's very subjective the way threads are locked. I've seen moderators in threads browsing the thread and leave only to see another moderator come in 15 minutes later and lock it with no additional posts being made.

    If the moderator doesn't like the thread or disagrees with the content it seems to get locked all too quickly.
     
    Raptor85 likes this.
  7. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    In the case of the thread just locked, that wouldn't work. We would simply be lambasted for moving the thread where the developers were unlikely to see it.
     
  8. Galen and Sauteed... Please STOP trolling this thread. This thread is about a suggestion to not lock all the threads that you have been trolling, proposing an alternate solution. If you can't add to the suggestions, please don't troll and have a good day somewhere else.
     
  9. Sauteed Onion

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    512
    Sorry, if it seems like I'm derailing this thread, I did want to post in the earlier "locked" thread where the guy was saying he wanted a shard merger but it got locked before I could put my piece in. Any how, I hope though I'm not coming off as a troll, just trying to be helpful and honest!
     
  10. Well, then it's time to take our ideas somewhere else if you are saying we can't possibly discuss certain ideas at all because OTHER people are trolling. I just don't understand that at all.
     
  11. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    As an experiment. I will remove all posts except the OP from that thread, unlock it and move it to speils and rants. ok?
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Be aware though, that the idea has been dismissed by the developers, thus is currently merely a tool to incite unrest on the board.

    It will always be highly unpopular with anyone who has any interest in shard history and anyone who views their house as a creation and a home and not just an extension of their bankbox to store things in.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  13. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Galen
    Just stop it. Please.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    Are you saying you are not a troll, GalenKnighthawk? I did read those posts of yours in the thread you assumed would be locked soon. Just because you believe a thread is soon to be locked by Petra or her staff does NOT give you permission to toss the Rules of Conduct (which you have agreed to abide by) out the window.
     
  15. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    I hope so.
     
  16. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
    Nah. I think the mods here do an amazing job. Especially considering most or all of them are volunteers. Especially considering the level of passion from many of the posters on this forum (myself included.)

    They keep the trolling at bay as much as one could expect while allowing unpopular opinions to be voiced.

    Without them keeping a close eye here and using good judgement, you'd see how quickly the trolls move in and ruin a perfectly good forum. You'd see how quickly two passionate posters can devolve a debate into a personal attack match and ruin a perfectly good forum.

    Your post below and the fact that it was allowed itself attests to their cool rationality, and moderation in moderating. Really, a case could be made that criticism of moderating actions is inappropriate, even if it is allowed.


     
  17. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I'll take this opportunity to ask, in those instances, is it wrong to post "IBTL" or "postcount +1" in those threads? just wondered if those were trolling, in a way
     
  18. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    At the other end of the spectrum (or maybe not, if you really think about it) are those that immediately start labeling people trolls simply for disagreeing with them.
     
  19. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    230
    This is the primary forum of a commerical MMO that still has tens of thousands of players, and it sees less activity than the forums of a lot of BS freeshards. It is incredibly overmoderated and largely abandoned as a result. If that uoguide forum nobody uses got a couple of dev posts, this place would shut down in a month.
     
    Raptor85 likes this.
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    Meatbread, where do you come up with all of these fascinating facts?
     
  21. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    As far as "IBTL" goes - yes - it is inappropriate. If you feel the thread should be locked then use the "Notify Mod" button - otherwise it is trolling and not helping.

    As to the "Postcount +1" - I am of two minds on that one. It is on the list of Smileys so it can't be all bad... :postcount: I can think of a few places where it could be used well - and several where it would be simple trolling.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  22. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
  23. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    230
    No, I'm crazy, you guys are awesome. How's that WoW Stratics going? Anyone posted there this month?
     
  24. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    224
    Yes !!! Please, THIS! Every other forum I read does this, just remove obvious troll posts or split them to a different thread, any decent forum software can do that. Often the threads being trolled are talking about major issues and getting them locked and "hidden away" really sucks for those that care about the issue.
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    Thanks for constructive input fellows. We appreciate your continued support of the Stratics network.
     
  26. hen

    hen Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    420
    Remove the trolls not the ideas. Time and time again threads are shut down, rather than trolls being removed. If the mods could just mod rather than continually forelock-tug to everything the devs come up with, ( I mean you here Petra) then we could have a much richer community. Yes I do appreciate you guys are all volunteers and give your time to do this . Thank you.
     
  27. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    *thinks* This is a very appealing idea.
     
  28. hen

    hen Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    420
    Just do it. Ban them.
     
  29. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    How about posting a sticky with a list of topics that should be discussed in SNR? It seems like most of the shard merger and classic shard posts and threads are just trolling, especially the shard merger threads. Most of the people I see pushing those know how destructive forced shard mergers would be, but they push it anyways, making me think they've moved on from UO and are just trolling.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  30. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Makes me think they're 12 yrs old. They really don't bother me much, especially since the man said it's not gonna happen. Just Duh!
     
    Woodsman likes this.
  31. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Good point.
     
  32. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    224
    How a bout just merge threads, whenever a new thread pops up about shard mergers just merge it into the older thread, lets them keep talking about it without a ton of threads on the forum. 99% of the time the people trolling the thread are the ones who WANT to see the idea shot down immediately so punishing the OP for the trolls is why a lot of UO players don't read stratics (heck...if it wasn't basicly required on siege to be able to trade/sell or if there was ANY other way to "represent" ourselves to the devs I wouldn't either)
     
  33. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632
    Swinging a ban hammer with reckless abandon is just as bad as arbitrarily locking threads. It risks turning Stratics into a monoculture where everyone says the same things, has the same opinions, and never says something sucks - or else. Since these are the unofficially official forums for UO (something no player should have control of, IMHO), the main place where the Devs deign to post, stifling dissent/opposing views could have a far, far worse impact on the community (and thus the game) than allowing them to be expressed.

    This is the problem with a catch-all like Rule B. It is worded so vaguely as to be applicable to absolutely anything a Mod happens to dislike, it is especially dangerous in the ways it has been unevenly applied. The Mods don't seem to have a set of standards to follow, as one will happily post away in a thread (hot topic or not), while another might come in and gut the thread or arbitrarily lock it with an all-too-smug one liner. Mercurial Mods who believe they "know what's best for the community" are an incredibly bad thing.

    Now, for topics that have been beaten into the ground and where the Devs have repeatedly given the same answer (such as shard mergers or a classic shard) a swift lock might be a solution. Moving them to the SNR forum would probably be the better choice though. Let people debate it ad nauseum.
     
    Hunters' Moon and Sevin0oo0 like this.
  34. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    *chuckles* OK. Reckless abandon... Mercurial Mods... You do turn a phrase. I am dangerous and bad, I like that. When ye decide if ye want us to participate, gut the the thread or just ignore the trolls, you let me know. I will give ye a fair listen.

    I will continue to make this a fair place to genuinely share ideas and discuss issues in a fair manner. I will listen to ye... I do not answer to ye. I have had my say here. I will be done adding to this conversation as it seems to irritate some.
     
  35. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632
    Erm, that wan't aimed at you, Kelmo... But, way to take one for the team? o_O

    'Reckless abandon' was mainly in response to what hen said above (which was the last post in the thread at the time).

    The specifics of "Mercurial Mods" really can't be discussed in detail, now can it? While Mods can apparently talk about (and mock) users publicly, users can't talk about a Mod's public (and sometimes not-so-public) actions due to a silly double standard.

    Also, if the Mods of a community site don't ultimately answer to "the community," then why bother with a community pretense at all?
     
  36. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Since it keeps coming up, and Yes, people really are that dense, and maybe they just forget
    Perhaps we need a FAQ listing common arising threads/ideas that will just wind up in No Man's Land.
    shard mergers - <Producer quote>
    classis shard - <quote>
    proof positive, don't bother, you're wasting your breath

    Stop the redundancy of Mods, or Petra having to repeat themselves in responses, hell, us too! Point to the FAQ, say read 'em and weep, your thread's dead.
     
  37. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Can we just state certain things UP Front in the initial post? I know UOF has kinda a Zero Tolerance towards certain replies in the Buying/Selling section, but if I specifically want any and all silly replies, as long as reasonably relevant. I state it in the post. It's not a get out of jail free card, but it lets them know they have much more liberty than normal to say what they want in responce to my posts.
     
  38. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    230
    Stratics is renowned for being a toilet largely because it doesn't matter how dumb you are as long as you're cheerful and civil enough about it. The moderators would rather have a polite forum than one where any worthwhile discussion takes place, hence the history of quashing entire threads because someone was mean in one.
     
    Raptor85 likes this.
  39. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    517
    I like the idea, better than what is currently going on here. Even recently conversations that stratics staff have been involved in get deleted or locked. It seems any popular topic people really want to discuss gets quietly pushed aside. Just look at the u.hall front page. Posts from 4 days ago are still there because there is now so little discussion going on. In years past they'd all be from today and it's not just because the games population is in the toilet. If you don't let people get a word in edgewise they give up and stop talking to you.
     
    Raptor85 likes this.
  40. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    If we look at the statistics: in the last five months, 82 threads have been locked in uhall out of 1,534 threads. 16 of these threads were quite off-topic (justin bieber etc.), so the total can be reduced to 66, which is 4.3% or roughly 1 in 23 threads. An average of 70 posts were present before these threads were locked. Only 32 users started these 66 threads, with a maximum of 5 locked threads started by a single user. 13 of these threads were started to discuss factions and felucca, 8 for scripters/spammers, 4 for merging shards and 2 for classic shard.
     
    O'Brien and Sauteed Onion like this.
  41. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    The two are not mutually exclusive, you can have a worthwhile discussion and still remain polite, believe it or not.

    Trolling is a difficult call to judge - because trolls never see themselves as trolls. They are 'telling it like it is' and I am all kinds of facist for preventing them from doing so.

    We can, and do, clean out trolls from threads - repeatedly. How many times do you clean out the same thread and watch it fill up with more of the same before you give up and just lock it?

    You insultingly call Stratics a toilet. It is my personal opinion that if we ran the board the way you would wish us to and allow people you consider to be 'dumb' to be attacked Stratics would become a cesspit.
     
  42. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    I only have two concerns with moderation and how the rules are applied. One is that we are not allowed to reopen a good thread that got derailed by trolls. Can someone explain why that rule is used? The second is that mods ~seem~ to have a "Do as I say,not as I do" mentality. That worked on me when I was nine. That was 30 years ago.
     
    Martyna Zmuir likes this.