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Suggestion: Pet Deeds

Discussion in 'UHall' started by LeBaiton, May 27, 2010.

  1. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Hello everyone,

    Selling pets at a bank, lining them out and waiting for a customer, while occassionally spamming about your "wares", I'm sorry to say is more or less dead. While it's socially interactive, and possibly even preffered to buying anonymously from a vendor, the current playerbase only seem to hang out at banks to either UO Assist-script gate to shops, selling expensive equipment that would take too much vendor fee, or to quickly bank stuff and recall out again. Since the implementation of shard-wide chat, the ammount of people that are standing at a bank, looking for potential deals, has diminished even further...

    This isn't the first time I've posted this idea. Some of you might remember it from way back. I've always kept the format around for future discussion though. Perhaps now, during times where social interaction is at an all time low, it'll be interresting to discuss the idea with the current player base: selling pets through a system which doesn't require the seller to be present during the deal. It's not an idea based on the thought that social interaction should be lessened any further, but based on the thought that selling pets should still be a viable course of action in this current time and age. At the same time, it might even support those that feel the current ammount of stable slots should be increased...

    Therefor, I present to you the idea of Pet Deeds. These Pet Deeds can be sold on a vendor by a player. If any of you have suggestions or ideas to complement this Pet Deed idea, let me know. If you want to discuss any of the points, I'd be very interrested to hear that aswell, feel free to add to the discussion...

    Thanks :)

    ---

    Creating Pet Deeds

    Pet deeds can only be created in a town's stable area by including the option on the context menu of a pet. To create a pet deed, the pet you want to "deed" will have to be out of the stable, tamed and owned by you. It won't work on pets that are friended to you. If there's a "release pet" yes/no screen open, or a transfer window pending, the deeding shouldn't work. If a check passes on all points once the option is selected, a pet deed will appear in the pet owner's backpack and follower slots will go down. If the pet that's being deeded is bonded, it will unbond...

    Redeeding Pet Deeds

    Pet deeds can only be redeeded in a town's stable area. To redeed the pet, the holder doubleclicks the deed in his backpack. The holder's Animal Lore and Animal Taming skill required to hold the pet will be checked, if the holder doesn't have enough skill, or the required skill, the pet will stay deeded and the same message will appear when a person tries to transfer a pet to someone with not enough skill. If the holder passes the Animal Lore and Animal Taming check, a follower slot check will be made to see if the holder has enough slots available. If not, a message stating "You have too many followers" appears (same message as when trying to tame something with full slots). If both the skill and follower checks pass, the pet will appear undeeded and tame...

    Checking Pet Deed Details

    Anyone can check out a pet deed's details by using the Animal Lore skill on a deed. Animal Lore will continue to work normally under any other circumstance, but when the cursor is used on a deed, it will function as it would for any tamer, even if the person loring it has 0.0 in skill. This will allow people to check if the pet that's being sold on the deed is of the advertised species and has the advertized stats and skills...

    ---

    Advantages of limiting the system as described above:

    - Binding creation and redeeding of Pet Deeds to stable areas will prevent tamers camping taming spots to no end.
    - It will prevent tamers from deeding pets in outside world situations, PvM or PvP wise.
    - It will also prevent tamers from becomming walking deed/redeed 'factories', running around with a multitude of pets in their packs.
    - Unbonding pets will ensure that the functionality of the traditional way of transferring a pet will be upheld. A bonded pet will always lose bonding upon transfer. It could also deter people who'd think about abusing it in combat situations.

    Suggestions to promote social interaction instead:

    - Make trading pets between players more attractive. Reward bank-trading by not letting the pets lose bonding upon trading, for example, to promote social interaction in some way.

    (Possible) Problems:

    - Pet colors: don't really know how to solve the pet color problem, only thing I can think of is either listing the colors in the Animal Lore gump, or by not having a deed at all, and create Pet Statues, with the color being visible (hiryus, cu sidhe, two colors of dragons and nightmare versions, even ostards could pose a problem through this).
    - Swamp Dragon armor, will it stay, will it go. In my opinion, it should pop as a deed back in your pack if you Pet Deed a swampy.
    - Unlimited pet storage possibility. I don't really see this as a problem. If a player wants to tame and store 125 nightmares as deeds in a container, what kind of problem does that pose to anyone?
    - Should a pet deed be blessed? In my opinion, it shouldn't be. It should however be storable in whatever container you'd want, be it a bank, a secure in your house or on a vendor (not as an unsellable item).
     
  2. Jermosh

    Jermosh Guest

    This would be great, I used to make a good amount of Gold hawking beetles and llamas at WBB and had lots of fun doing it. Now I only tame for friends or if I find a newbie.
     
  3. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Interesting, but I doubt it will go through now. For one devs seem to dislike tamers. I mean just look at the pet dyes. People who were not tamers cried about it so much that it got shoved into a closet.

    One thing I think should be changed is that pet deeds should be blessed. There really is no reason for them not to be. Most other deeds are blessed and I can't think of a reason why pet deeds being blessed would be a bad thing.
     
  4. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    No.
    Thank you.
     
  5. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Let stablemaster sell Pet Deeds like minter sells Commodity Deeds.
     
  6. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Why?

    Edit: this isn't ment as a snappy reply in the sense of "see, I can post 1 line remarks too!", I just really want to know why not? :p
     
  7. Lady Aalia

    Lady Aalia Atlantic's Finest
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    I like the idea

    not sure how it would work with trained pets though, should only be new tames deedable or trained ones too?
     
  8. Verthandi

    Verthandi Guest

    Well, all 'social' issues aside, I'm not sure I'd buy some types of pets without being able to have a good look at the colour, unless the stats were incredible. The statue idea is a fair one, but at such a small size it'd be hard to tell apart the slightly different shades of blue cu, for example.

    I'd also prefer to know who I'm buying from rather than grabbing a deed off an anon vendor, as I don't really want to pass gold into the hands of anyone I've seen afk scripting at Jhelom bull pit. :p
     
  9. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Maybe a pet deed can adapt to the color of the pet, and maybe they could add a "created by ..." tag?
     
  10. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Every pet already have owner history. So possible to display both "tamed by" and "last owned/created by" tags.
     
  11. Verthandi

    Verthandi Guest

    I like both the colored deeds idea (still not perfect, but less chance of buying the 'wrong' shade) and the idea of a 'pet history' tag, which would give the buyer a full picture of how the pet has been tamed and trained.

    I'm still not all that comfortable with buying pets from vendors (it's the social aspect I'd miss, and I love seeing the occasional ostard/bug/swampy sellers camping out at Haven bank), but I can sympathise with traders from small shards who don't see enough traffic on screen.
     
  12. I would love to be able to sell pets on my vendor and have seem various versions of this idea. Instead of pet deeds, I was thinking there should be a way to turn Pet Balls into sell-able items, showing the pet skills/stats and color. Then when you purchased the Pet Ball, it would automatically transfer to your stable. The idea is that this would keep the pet in your stable until it was sold, so you couldn't use this as a way to get around the stable slot count.

    However it is done, let us put pets on vendors, please. I did say, "Please."
     
  13. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Sometimes I wonder why there is even a stable slot count. I mean, with the amount of modes on weapons now, is it much more data to stall a pet than it is to say store 1 valorite hammer made weapon in a box? Seems like with all the mods on weapons, the amount of data needed should be about the same.

    Yet we can store thousands of weapons with many mods, as opposed to the limited amount of pets.
     
  14. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    would help pet seller AND pet searching players ,so why not?

    (sometimes i see people run around and searching for fire beetles and no is tamer around)

    ;)
     
  15. I understand what you are saying. Right now, it's a way to "reward" tamers for their skill by giving them extra slots as their skill increases. Based on that, I think it's okay to limit the number of tames in a stable for low-end taming skill, but it certainly should be possible to open that up for GM+ taming skill.
     
  16. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    It still reward, since redeed pet lose bonded tag. Extra slot = extra bonded pet ready for adventures.
     
  17. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Ridiculously out there idea that will never happen and i hope it don't. It first off would take a lot of programming that we do not need to waste our devs time with. Even if having one of these deeds in your pack took a followers spot, what about when there on your vendor? Would it then count against your stable slots? Or still count against your follower slot? I would be more in faver for a way to transfer pets from one char to another, say an account wide hitching post per say, would maybe be easier to implement.
     
  18. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Since you know it takes a lot of programming, I am assuming you know what the codes for tamable animals/monsters looks like? Why would it take a lot of time? Explain please, I'm all ears...

    I am glad you think the devs do not need to waste time with my suggestion. I am also glad you're not the one deciding what they "waste" their time on... :lol:

    A pet deed would have no ties to your follower slot or your stable slots...
     
  19. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This discussion has been had before, more than once, but it isn't a bad thing to keep reviving it every now and then, because it is a good idea. Unfortunately, I can't link to past discussions because it appears that the search database has been destroyed in the last hacker assault.

    So I will recap what I remember of previous discussions, which I think addresses some of the issues raised in this thread:

    - Tamers may deed pets that they can bond.
    - A deeded pet disappears.
    - A pet can be claimed from a deed at any stable, and the owner must have the appropriate number of control slots free.
    - A pet deed counts toward the owner's stable slot limit.
    - If a pet deed is dropped or placed in a trash bin it is destroyed and the pet returns to the owner's stable.
    - A pet deed can be placed on a vendor or in a container, any character picking up the pet deed, or buying it off a vendor must first pass a transfer ownership test, if successful, and the character taking possession of the pet deed must have stable space available for the pet. If the tests pass the character successfully picking up the pet deed, or buying it off a vendor takes possession of the pet and the pet will now count toward the new owner's stable slot limit.
    - Pet deeds may be assessed using the animal lore skill. When successfully assessed the pet lore information gump for that pet will be displayed, together with a picture of the pet with appropriate colouring. If the lore attempt is not successful, only a picture of the pet will be displayed.
     
  20. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    **problem, Greater Dragon maxed out on skills a newby useign a advance char and jewelry, buys deed redeams it tries to get pet to bond by commanding and feeding it pet will not listen since it is not in thier range to tame to begin with causes a major problem**
     
  21. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    I might be mistaken, but if someone transfers a greater dragon to the person you just described, won't it cause the same problem?

    Or are you referring to a flaw in my line of thinking regarding the deeds? If you could elaborate? Thanks :)
     
  22. I like this idea! (I know, right, I like something that isn't "classic"?)

    Crafters can sell their wares via vendors...why shouldn't tamers have the same option?

    I saw someone above that said they don't feel comfortable buying a pet from a vendor...no problem, you can still buy them the regular way.
     
  23. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Morgana's Stratics account has been hacked! Officer, arrest the imposter! Either that or we need to call an exorcist... :grouphug:
     
  24. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I suguested this a while back on the Dev section. It would be great for players on shards where finding a tamer on or willing to go tame one for them is very hard.
    On shards that are low in population it would be good not only for the player who needs the selected pet it also gives the tamer a way to make gold.

    Im all for it as a tamer.
     
  25. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    NO!

    anyway its nearly impossible to implement bug-free.
     
  26. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    I like the idea. The only thing I would ask is that anyone could buy the pet. I have 2 tamers, both being red ATM. Would be nice to be able to get another hiryu, yet I have to rely on someone else to do it. Then if they do get one, they are reluctant to come to fel. This would save me alot of trouble.

    Also, just think of the help it would be to some people whom dont have tamers yet would still like to have a llama, blue beetle, fire, swampy, ostard, or anything of the sort tamers are needed to get, but not needed to ride.
     
  27. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm liking this idea except there would have to be a way to keep people from abusing stable slots.

    The deed would have to somehow count as a stable slot or there will be people with lots and lots of deeded pets to save space in the stable.

    I don't really know anything about programming but there would have to be a way of keeping track of these deeds.

    Maybe through an npc pet broker. Maybe there can be account specific slots just for deeds. Like say 5 deed slots per 'account' not char. When you deed a pet it counts as a 'deed' slot and that slot does not get freed up until the pet is either redeemed by the new owner or released by old or new owner through the npc pet broker.

    That's really the only thing I can think of that would allow the game to keep track and (I hate this word) regulate the pet deed system.
     
  28. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    great idea... things like beetles would be more available for sower shards and for folks that enjoy taming to make gold.

    really no drawbacks that couldn't already happen with pet transfers.
     
  29. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Another thought:

    Since there are griefers who would possibly buy deeds and keep them indefinitely making it so the original pet deeder would not get to free up his/her slots there would have to be a fail safe.

    Like say a pet deed is created. If that deed in placed inside a bank box or a secure container that is specific to the acct that created it or is placed in a vendor for sale it is safe.

    Once some one buys it and it is no longer in any of the above containers it will begin to decay. Maybe give the new owner 5 days to redeem it before it goes bye bye.

    For added measure: Pet deeds can not be placed in a vendor more than once. A new owner would have to redeem it first than re deed it to place it in a vendor if he or she wishes to sell it.

    One last thing. I touched on this in the first post. I think once you deed a pet you should NOT be able to redeem it. You should be able to go to a npc broker and have it destroyed if you need space for another pet but only the new owner should be able to redeem it.
    Once you pull the trigger and commit to deeding a pet that's it. No going back.

    This would keep us tamers from simply using this (theoretical) system as additional pet storage.
     
  30. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Alternatively, as the pet is going to be traded, have it lose Bonded status once deeded just like it would in a normal trade to someone else, so yes you can try and free up stable space, but you won't be going hunting with it anywhere dangerous for a week... not if you care enough about that pet!

    Regarding the Deed itself, personally I'd just go with an exceptionally simple method; Have it say "A So And So, Coloured X" when highlighted, where X for the colour is taken from the data directly, and when double clicked, the deed pulls the Animal Lore gump up as if used on that pet, so you can browse the rest of the stats.

    I have to admit though, I'm having difficulty understanding some of the visceral answers to this thread though; having a tamer who likes to have silly or unique pets (a 4xGM 3x125 normal chicken and rabbit, and currently working on a bull and 4 cows to go hunting lowbie spawn with) it would be nice to set up a pet store that doesn't involve trying to squeeze ever more out of my already near-full 14 stable slots. Presently I'm just not able to maintain any stock and keep my own play time varied and fun. And for the buyer, if implemented well, it wouldn't make any difference to the actual trade... indeed for those who are colour blind (or in the EC, grrr!), having a more textual representation would be a genuine benefit... as would not having to have Animal Lore yourself to see what sort of pet you were getting (always tricky for the Bushido or 0 Taming Skill pets, where the buyer may not be able to see it normally).
     
  31. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's why it has been suggested that ownership transfers when someone picks up (buys, trades, picks up out of a container) a deed, and there is a control check when that happens.

    That's why a deeded pet should count toward your stable slot limit.
     
  32. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    You cannot accept a pet that you cannot control ion a trade form another player, this same check woudl ahve to be implemented when buying the deed, the message given is this pet will refuse to listen to you
     
  33. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Having it count toward a stable slot would be great but I don't think it's that easy. (nothing ever is).

    The Devs would probably have to re write the whole stable system to pull that off.
    Think big can of worms. Possibly some wasps too :)

    I don't really know much about programming so I can't really say but I think the devs would have a much simpler task making it a separate system.

    Plus the current stable system wouldn't get bugged :)
     
  34. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Don't you think a restriction like that would null the whole point of being able to run a pet vendor if you had deeds? I can imagine a lot of people have their stables full of pets. Some they hunt with, others have sentimental value, basically a stable full...

    Say you want to run a vendor where you sell a few colored ostards, or maybe a nightmare with nice stats you ran into while hunting in Ilshenar, or a near perfect resists cu sidhe. If you tie stable slots to a pet deed, you'd be able to set up a vendor and sell a grand total of maybe one, two or three pets...

    Since you can have up to 5/5 follower slots, you might aswell take you ostards to Haven and hope to sell it to a newbie, or a player that has started afresh on your shard. Then you'd be back to square one...

    Your thoughts on that?

    I see a lot of people responding that deeding a pet would be a way to circumvent the ammount of stable slots a tamer has. I firmly believe that having a pet unbond when you deed it is a big enough penalty. The higher your skillpoints are, the more stable slots you have, the more stable slots you have, the bigger your array of bonded pets will be. That would be a dedicated tamer's biggest advantage. I never see people running around in dangerous places with pets that have the [tame] tag...

    I am keen to see if the rest of you have different experiences regarding that?..
     
  35. :lame:

    Defeats the purpose of being able to sell pets on vendors.
     
  36. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Excellent point.

    That's why I like the acct specific deed slots idea.

    It wouldn't matter how many tamers you have, you would only get X amount of deed slots between them. This keeps the market from being flooded and doesn't compromise actual stable space.
     
  37. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    No, you could still sell pets on vendors, you just wouldn't be able to sell hundreds at a time. It would have the dual purpose of preventing the market from being as easily flooded.
     
  38. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    :lame::coco:
     
  39. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    You just defeated the entire point of the post. You want to stick yet something else on your vendor, with no further interaction with another player, just you're own greed at work...
     
  40. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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  41. Pets spawn freely. By definition the market is already flooded. All this would do would be to add a revenue stream for tamers that don't like to spam at banks, and are tired of farming spawns. Also, is a vendor had 10 different nightmares on it, for example, then the customer could actually choose which one they buy, rather than having to tame, store, try to find better, find better...release, tame, store, try to find better...rinse and repeat.

    I do agree that this cuts down on some of the social interaction in the game, but most of that is already gone anyway...so who cares?
     
  42. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well there is one thing you didnt consider, how about the limit of 1 pet deed per week for a gm tamer only. It's simple and could be easy to code.

    This way the saturation point would be lessened.
     
  43. WHAAAT? This has nothing to do with greed. Do you find it necessary to degrade everyone when you disagree with their ideas? Grow up a bit.

    Right now, interaction in game is next to nothing, and unless your play time matches the busy time on an underpopulated shard it's very difficult to sell by spamming at an empty bank. I would rather play UO than spending hours spamming "Trained Grater Dragon for Sale! See Paper Doll for Stats!" or some other silly text. Buying pets from a player's vendor is more about convenience than anything to do with greed. But, I'm sure you have your own agenda to push.
     
  44. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    There is another alternative. There's a player on Baja who sells pets through books dropped at the bank. He puts in all the details, price (none of this "make offer" crap!) and his ICQ#. It's like spamming at the bank but you're not there!
     
  45. QFT
     
  46. That's not a bad idea... not a great idea, but not a bad one either. I don't' currently use ICQ because of all the scam and spam messages that I was getting. Pet Deeds or Pet vendor statues, or whatever, would still be a better idea... I just might try the books.
     
  47. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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    If you just make the pet lose its bond when put into a deed, people wont really abuse it much, who wants to hunt with unbonded pets?
     
  48. Here's a suggestion...

    Let's just get rid of ALL player vendors. Maybe then non-tamers will begin to understand the frustration of selling their wares without using a vendor, and that will somehow magically improve player interaction.