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Suggestion to remove timers from Peerless keys

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, May 8, 2012.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Based upon the discussion in a semi-related thread I would like to renew my long-standing suggestion to remove the timer from the Peerless main keys (the ones actually used to get into the Peerless area, as opposed to the non-primary keys).

    I refer specifically to the Mondain's Legacy Peerlesses.

    This would enable a broader range of Peerlesses to be done more often, open up a little sub-economy of folks buying and selling Peerless keys (similar to those who buy and sell Doom Gauntlet Skulls), enable individuals to store up keys and do the Peerlesses when there's people on to do them, and enable guild to store up multiple Peerless runs for their guild to do on a spontaneous whim, rather than risk the "you took so long to get the keys that I started a champ spawn, now you need to wait" phenomenon.

    There easily could be something I'm not thinking of, of course, but off-hand I see no downside. (In this game those are the famous last words! There's always something someone didn't think of but I'd be curious as to what it is.)

    I think the idea behind the timered keys was to give the encounter something of the feel of a single-player game's endgame encounter. That, however feel, however, has been replaced to a great degree. By the 4 main Stygian Abyss bosses (and 2 of those four, Navery and the Slasher of Veils, require no keys at all!!). And by the various High Seas bosses. And, importantly, by EM events which, in addition to epic battles, also feature an important aspect of single-player games: a storyline to follow. By contrast, Peerlesses have a backstory to be sure but not a storyline to follow unless you count the entrance quests themselves, and nothing about making the keys non-timered particularly impacts someone's ability to RP those quests.

    By contrast, the ML Peerlesses are, at this point, something more akin to the Doom Gauntlet or an Ilshenar Champ Spawn. That is to say they are normal high-end PvM done for fun, challenge, and loot, rather than an epic endgame battle.

    -Galen's player
     
  2. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Aren't these the ones where you have to Jump thru Hoops to enter? Since their onset, there's still some I've never even been in.
    Why would anyone pay to enter a dungeon?? WTH!
    Dread Horn FTW, The longest running quest that everybody starts, and few ever finish. HUH?

    I'm not sure who was behind them, but they're all the same, and an idea that isn't popular.
    All it did was make the developer's work on those projects be underutilized. Mark a rune out front, go in and out as you please. I don't even like clicking the coffin in Umbra, after doing the quest of course. It reeks of inexperience in 'real world', more typical of someone fresh out school and put in charge.
    Sorry for the tangent Galen, but I'm with you, there's many dungeons, where it's harder to get in than it is afterwards, and could be experienced by a wider degree of players.

    I have a different opinion regarding Slasher of Veils, a huge area, virtually desolate, because of 1 Mob?? And making SA in North and South, Slasher should be a [Renown], not an always spawning. and I think there should be an alternate way across as there is in SA North (from top to bottom), altho 1 requires teleport.

    But they have new mechanics now, a new boss(s), so I look for more things to be revisited. SA is enormously popular, too bad there's essentially 2 of them.
     
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  3. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I would be all for removing the timers from the keys, or even removing the requirement for them altogether. Ssure would enable a lot of impromptu hunts, gatherings, events. Too many times I've seen someone holler "Lets go to Travesty" only to be disappointed cause they couldnt get a group up cause no one had time to stay up to get keys...and on one occasion we even had one expire before we could get the last one.

    Let us in on a whim. Perhaps have holding a key give a bump to the loot for that particular instance? Kinda like luck?
     
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  4. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    This is a very nice idea and I support it throughly.
    It's not every night that I have time to gather the keys, call in guild members and fight the boss.
     
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  5. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Ok if I was one of the developers I would feel embarrased reading this thread. I would think I should have done as proposed here years ago. I like the idea of stockpiling on not-expiring keys.

    You asked for an idea for grief? Ok, here's one: Even if some peerlesses (or all?) are 'instanced', i.e. more than one Melisande exists - I think there is a maximum number of one peerless areas at any one time, maybe five or six? You could stockpile keys and use them to block entrance on highly frequented evenings, the only time usually available to get a group together. Maybe it's enough to put a ghost in there or a character that hides in one corner. Just an idea. Even if this wouldn't work or was never used for griefing, I think there's also some means for griefing. This kind of threat should not keep them from doing the right design choices so overall more players enjoy the game more.

    Similar examples (imho): lack-of-cohesion-blah-blah for moongates and the 'you have to wait' -blah blah when trying to sort items in very quick succession (e.g. bods). Those things are sooo cumbersome right now.
     
  6. sirrojen

    sirrojen Guest

    I totally support this, the only issue i see is that when you collect peerless keys, at least for dreadhorn anyway, you end up with 3 keys, if none of them have timers this could be a problem. I would say make the component turn in yield 1 key with no timer, if you need a second party for the peerless kill you should have to collect new components.
     
  7. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    This is exactly what is being proposed. :)
     
  8. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    i just wouldnt wanna see peerless bosses being taken over for days at a time where no one else could get in or something if they could fgind away around that then im all for making it easier to get into the bosses themselves.I fully agree that if it werent such a pain to get in there would be lots more hunts done there and more people would get to experiance it,ready for it orr not.ALso though all those expensive rare items u get from the bosses will lose their rarity completely as so many people would constantly be fighting the bosses if they could go right in.For some that would be a great thing others that would devalue the time and effort they had to put into getting those items before the changes,so i think there can be arguements made against it for sure but they are issues that could probably be worked around to everyones satisfaction.Maybe lower drop rate on some o the rarer items so they stay rareish or like someone said make people need at least 1 timed key could help a lil as far as a group taking it over for days maybe somewhat...
     
  9. Driven Insane

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    I would love to see this.

    Also I don't believe the concerns of the Peerless being griefed would happen since Lady M is currently set up this way and I've never had a problem with having to wait for more than 10 minutes (Although it does help that there are 2 Lady M's available - Tram and Fel).
     
  10. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    I like this idea as well...
     
  11. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    It sure would make it easier to have guild runs when you have folks on as opposed to having to try and get enough time to key it and do it.
     
  12. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    if the griefing is the main concern of the players, I don't know how you get around it. What I was mentioning wasnt doing them without keys...just having no timers on keys. Now if someone actually buys/collects enough keys to run thru it for an entire weekend, well, they earned that right by collecting enough keys to do it. As for as planting a ghost or a player in there just to hold it and make it seem busy, a 30 min timer on the instance should cure that.

    Until EA/Mythic/Origin/Bioware/*/ takes some stance and action on griefing, you gonna have griefing in some form, somewhere, no matter what.
     
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  13. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    I give this idea a :thumbup: , as for griefing, if UO had more players that might be a problem, but as it stands, not so much. :(
     
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  14. sirrojen

    sirrojen Guest

    Roland, the items are plenty rare as is, have 400 luck on my sampy, killed dreadhorn solo 25-30 times, no CC, no flute and no kryss drops in my life
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I rather like and support the idea.... though I would prefer if the Peerless were instanced. But often it's hard to get a group together..... or you think you might have a group and go get keys only to find no one is available.
     
  16. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    +1

    I've never even done most of the bosses with timed keys, because who cares? Always something else to do that I can do right away.
     
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  17. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    I truly do not believe that at this stage of the game anyone would really be able to "grief" if the keys didn't have timers any more than they could as the system exists today. In the months after the release of ML, I know for certain that some guilds would work up multiple quests and effectively "Lock out" anyone else from doing Melisande runs. It even became a competition as to who could drop the primary keys to get the finals, often times leaving other guilds outside waiting and hoping to get a chance to run their set of keys. I recall running 10 back to back Mels, while others were left outside trying to drop their keys and weren't fast enough, and I recall watching and waiting while other guilds did the same to us.

    But that was 7 (?) ish years ago, and I don't see that being an issue in today's UO. Remove the timers and let someone have a full day of peerless runs :) .
     
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  18. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    Only problem with this idea is actually all peerless give several keys with timers to avoid failure entrance for example if someone was too far away or miss the okay click, or even if you die inside the instance, thats why they give 3 keys. But what you propose is 1 key with no time that means dont fail to enter or dont die or its done, right ?
     
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  19. Driven Insane

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    You're referring to the keys that allow you to enter the peerless. We're discussing the keys that you intially collect and turn in to get the keys you're referencing.

    There would be no change to the keys you're referring to, only the collectable keys.

    I hope that makes sense ;)
     
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  20. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    I was thinking more along the lines of the base keys being timerless. That way you could collect 6 sets of Sabrix Eyes, Irks Brains, Gnaws Fangs, etc today, and hold them till Friday (or whenever) to drop and run 6 Dreadhorns with your peoples.
     
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  21. Tropik

    Tropik Visitor
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    I agree, It might even make doing peerless fun again. However there are more problems than just the timers. I have gotten keys for every peerless. Every one of them has another problem which is the amount of time it can take you to get the keys. It has taken me from 1 hour (very infrequently) to 4 hours (more frequently) to get the keys for one or two peerless runs in the same peerless. There are times when you have been there for 3 hours trying to get keys and someone else comes in and get the keys out from under you in less than an hour. We have some people that get them within an hour almost every time and others who couldn't pull a key off a corpse if the corpse got up and handed it to them. There have been questions asked several times about how these keys drop and whether a lot of people getting keys reduces the number given out or the frequency? In my opinion I just think it how badly the random number generator STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN! Some people are favored by it and others are not. The keys just do not drop on any kind of random or frequent basis. The distribution of these keys is again just another nuisance, and probaly one designed by the same person that designed the nuisance of an electric fence between floors 2 and 3 of the Shimmering. I'm not asking for it to be simple to get keys, just consistent. The challenge of getting the keys is not the problem but the frequency at which they drop at times is! I can die 2 - 6 times in some peerless getting the keys, that does not bother me. As far as the loot goes, think about it. It has been several years since Crimson Cintures were part of a drop by the peerless. Today they still sell in the middle to upper teen miillons of gold. What? Everyone does not deserve a right to have a chance for one? I know people who have gotten 8 of them and those who have done the same number of peerless, ( in the upper hundreds) and gotten none. 15 million or more for one piece of armor you wear? Again this is in my opinion due toe lousy way the random number generator works. Let's start making this game fun for everyone instead of just a select few.
     
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  22. Driven Insane

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    Yep, you're right. The RNG sucks major ass.

    The Devs obviously didn't learn their lesson from Doom and they should have added the current Doom Arti drop system to every high end drop added since.
     
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  23. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I agree that the rng is terrible. I remember killing crystal hydras with my boyfriend for around 3 hours and never getting the keys. We never tried again. When Draconi was still on the dev team, I think he was going to take a look a the rng and try to make it better. Oh well.
     
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