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Taking Bets!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nexus, May 20, 2010.

?

Make your Bets

Poll closed May 27, 2010.
  1. 2:1 players get punished for UO Assist on "Accident"

    28.9%
  2. 10:1 The 3rd party detection works but.. it doesn't catch everything properly

    41.4%
  3. 20:1 There is no 3rd Party detection this is just a scare tactic

    19.5%
  4. 100:1 Everything works smoothly and all the scripters and speeders get caught

    10.2%
  1. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    OK folks I know in Cal's Producers Snippet for May he said that 3rd Party Program detection is pretty much ready to go in....

    Who wants to lay bets that when it does the first round of people caught will at least for the majority be using only UO Assist, and the GM's will pass out what ever punishment because they sadly cannot tell the difference between UO Ultima Online and UO the University of Oregon....

    Laugh all you want, but it's probably true, the Current GM staff is stretched too thin, they have to cover multiple games as proved by the screen shot that was floating around here a few years back of a UO player getting thanked for playing "Dark Ages of Camelot".

    Don't get me wrong I hope this system they have worked on actually works. I really really do, but I don't have faith in our GM Team to use or handle infractions properly.
     
  2. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    I still think the first person banned will be for using UOA. I don't have any confidence in most of the GMs. Most don't know anything about the game or what is legal.
     
  3. lucksi

    lucksi Guest

    1:1 EA will snoop around on your computer for other stuff as well.
    1:2 People will be banned for using cartographer, since we have been told outright that it is ok to use.
     
  4. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Mmmmmm Well........ Guess you can take your thread many different ways by the wording. I think Cals plan will work and better watch out Nexus he might turn over his command of the B-52s to the Gamemasters.

    Berry the mouse is watching you....

    But in all honesty I am sure they will test it and be sure that UOAssist, UOAM, UO Cartagropher etc etc will not get people banned (..... Well unless they really just want to get rid of us all lol.) One productive thing we could do is tell them a list of programs that we run along side UO that this..... errmm whatever this detect program is called.
     
  5. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ok, I am giving the devs some credit. I except that they are aware that we use UOA, it would be pretty hard to not be aware of that. Because of that I am willing to bet that they would have tested the detection tool with UOA and thus have created a filter for it. So I picked option 2.
    Also because nothing is ever perfect and people who create these hacks likely know what they are doing and how to avoid getting caught some of the time.
     
  6. MrAlien

    MrAlien Guest

    0_o
    im horrified
     
  7. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    I'd be more worried if they thanked a UO player for playing The Sims Online...

    :lol:
     
  8. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I'm betting (praying?) UOA users will be ok. I'm thinking that it's big enough, and well known enough that they will have that program green flagged.

    I think the more likely scenario is that it's going to work for most, but not all of the stuff out there. Just like the endless game of hackers and people creating DRM. It's just a matter of time before they up the ante and create a new program to defeat the monitoring software, and then in turn EA will change the software, and the cat and mouse game will begin.
     
  9. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Thing is though it's not so much the Dev's I'm worried about it's the GM's. If, UOA shows up i don't have faith they will know enough not to ban people for it. I've seen folks get banned over some really odd things lately, like other folks filling their house up with tamable's while they were logged out for the night.
     
  10. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I think the same thing. Writing anti-cheat software in house makes me nervous that this will ultimately chew up resources and end with cheaters still cheating. I compare it to trying to write your own anti-virus software. I can only hope there are very few false positives.
     
  11. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    If you guys really think UO Assist users will be banned by mistake, then I might not play until they work out the kinks. I'm assuming things like ICQ, AIM, etc are also still ok to use?
     
  12. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    UOA is not only an approved 3rd party app but under contract with UO. But i guarantee that you will be checked on for endless sloops with it. I doubt very much that you will see GMs checking you but more of an automated response that then reports u to gms if not answered. I just hope it isn't too irritating to constantly be answering it.
     
  13. Rather than bans, I would like to see third party detection crash the client. This would avoid the whole banning those that do nothing wrong. I don't know why they can't.
     
  14. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I'd rather bet :
    - Players using Vista/7/Firewall X or Y can't launch the game anymore
    - Players experiencing waves of lag/deconnections
    - The game will close with the message "hacking tool detected" when you'll launch Dwarf Fortress

    As seen on other games.
     
  15. Zooithion

    Zooithion Crazed Zealot
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    That makes me stop and think for sure. Not only UOC in the client mode but also in the client/server mode. Hmmmm

    Hope not!
     
  16. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    that's the way I voted ... UOA user will get it in the neck.
     
  17. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    2:1

    People start getting warnings and the vast majority of those using these programs stop using them. Those that can write their own scripts will continue to use them. These players will be paged on repeated and nothing will continue to happen to them.

    Basically wide spread use will stop and the scripters/cheaters will be only those with the skills to overcome the measures.

    Better than the status quo
     
  18. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Why are you under the impression that people will stop using them?
     
  19. five oclock

    five oclock Guest

    ya know..Im a high roller.hence why Im always broke..this game been buggy for 12 years..Im sure it will be buggy for the next 12 years...BUT and I mean a BIG BUT....

    I DO think and hope with the new blood we have with the devs..wtih all the new ideas and info they have at there fingertips...that other people in the past MIGHT not have had..Or used to there own purpose....

    These new devs Do know what they are doing...and going to try there best to make this game the best fair game they can...

    Heck at least for once I DO HOPE that UO Devs actually release something..with No Bugs and NO problems...But hey thats just me...Im sure if they release this new cheat thing with no bugs..it would go down in the books :D
     
  20. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I can see your point but ask yourself this ... if you don't know what the detection method is, where it is (client, server, both), how it is enacted exactly and it's persistence (is it on all the time or just some times based on action) how would you create a new method?

    Now in fairness to the team WE the collective UO community have griped about "cheats" for years. So, now "something" will be implemented. Will it be 100% successful? Nope, not at all because NOTHING in computing is bulletproof.

    However, good implementation will allow for checks and balances to refine the process. Those of us on the "bleeding edge" will bear the initial surge of false alarms, but in the end it might just be one heck of a system.

    But we ARE only skulling here and we might never know exactly how it gets done. Kinda fun, though - definitely better than what I do all day!
     
  21. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    I am going to let their PAST "fix's" speak for them.... :sad4:


    Be nice to think it'll work correctly, but most of us know differently sadly.
     
  22. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    This is a 3rd Party Program detection. When you log on, and decide your going to use a illegal program this program will detect it, and automatically boot you off the game, and take necessary action. This Program detection is not going to page a GM to take you to jail. and give a 72 hour vacation.
     
  23. I do 90% of my work from home, I am a wedding photographer. So when i am processing photos, i do so in the background while playing UO. I may be running 3 or 4 different applications at the same time as running UO and this is not counting UOAssist or OUC. TBF I am Pooping my pants about this detection software. Once you get a ban its very hard to over turn it even if you have done nothing wrong, Trying to get them to get a working copy of my software for testing purposes is just not going to happen.
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I don't think programs running in the background unrelated to UO will be considered 3rd party program cheats.
     
  25. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    You don't know GameGuard apparently. There was even a version that was locking Firefox. There's a version that detects Dwarf Fortress as a hacking tool, I'm not inventing it!
    It's amazing what detection programs can do. :lol:
     
  26. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm curious what it'll think if it smells my Linux but I don't have a problem with it at this stage. I'm of the wait and see mentality rather than the worry what might happen kind.

    Kinda reminds me of publishes of old where for your own/pet's safety you kinda stayed offline to see what bugs you were missing, from a safe distance. Usually for about a week if it was particularly fruity ;)

    Wenchy
     
  27. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I would lay my REAL bet on the chance that full-time cheaters, people claiming handicaps that are salved magically through scripting(and mysteriously not through the EC) along with ignorant, panicked UHallers and certain individuals in-game who will show up posting when this all affects production shards, will all begin a very vocal campaign -- Or I should say, demonstration of sorts -- that as seen in the past may very well affect the final decisions of EA/M on the matter negatively. ...But you have no such option.

    The rest are all details but for the record I believe there might be accidents, so to speak, but over-all if implemented it will eventually(and hopefully that would be soon) all work out fine and we will see a decrease in cheaters' population. Since this is my realistic(I don't expect it to stop everything, every time, let's be honest) interpretation of "Everything will work smoothly" this was my vote(supposing any anti-cheating method DOES get implemented EVER- See above paragraph). I believe it to be too risky for EA/M to pull off mere scare tactics as things are and UOAssist has been with UO for far too long for such mistakes to happen on a regular basis.

    Regarding this being a scare tactic I also wish to add that if that's the truth or for whatever reason EA/M backs off, I personally never will play Ultima Online again. This appears to be quite a turning point for me and I'm anxious to see what happens.
     
  28. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    my hunch is people will be banned just for having programs on their computer, even if they use them only for free shards

    true.

    if there's even 1 false positive you know there will be dozens to come and the whole thing will be a fail.
     
  29. agpga

    agpga Guest

    2:1 says 50% of the UO population quits because they can't use a certain program to do every day mundain tasks that prevent carpal tunnel.
     
  30. This is a sorry excuse, and is a bunch of bull**** to boot. I've been playing at least 8 hours a day for the past 4 years, so I "click" a hell of a lot more than most people, and I've never felt so much as a twinge in my wrists.
     
  31. ingsmsico

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    did you just say carpal tunnel is bull****? I assure it is not. i know someone who's had surgery in both arms because of it.

    I see no harm in someone using a script to train a skill, while chilling at the computer reading a book, browsing the forums, checking vendors on another char, etc.. I have no idea why you glorify and take pride in mindless clicking and tapping.
     
  32. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    It has begun

    It will be like the astroturfing Classic shard campaign. A very vocal minority spamming all over stratics

    And it was no surprise, one of top 3 Classic shard spammers, a markey dragon wannabee who made a living off UO, was the first to post in Cal's thread, and not for the first time, that if they ban all cheaters UO will shut down

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
     
  33. In Flames

    In Flames Journeyman
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    I have 0 faith in the GM's so I will be out for the week and lurking the forums.
     
  34. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Correction...a small group of Stratics people have whined and whined.
     
  35. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Did you just call a legitimate painfull physical illness for "sorry excuse"?

    Man you're sad.
     
  36. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Ahhh, please don't mention that abomination!

    Sadly enough, it came about because a vocal minority whined and whine, and in the end it gave way for a walker infested game.
     
  37. Supreem

    Supreem Founder, Citadel Studios
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    We are working very hard to ensure there are no false positives in our system. Please be assured that you will not be actioned for using UOAssist.
     
  38. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Judging at the length of time the 3rd party detection function took to develop, I think the points raised here (such detecting UOA as a false positive) are exactly what the devs were taking their time to get right.

    While generic 3rd party programs like gameguard and punkbuster need to scan your system for all sorts of games and running programs, something developed internally specifically for the UO client doesn't need to do that.

    I would suspect they'll start with extra caution and would only be monitoring programs that "hooks" to the UO client.

    If that's the case, UOCartographer should be totally fine since it doesn't talk to UO directly.

    Perhaps as a community, we should avoid undermining the devs' efforts before we've even seen what it does?
     
  39. No, what's sad is that you don't get it, or pretend not to anyway.
     
  40. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Make sure Cal has his K-Mart Whiffle ball bat ready jic....
     
  41. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Quick reminder for everyone.
    Naming unapproved 3rd party programs isn't allowed.

    and on a personal opinion.
    Avoiding carpel tunnel is not a valid reason for using scripts. Knowing when to log off and take a break is what lets you avoid carpel tunnel.
    I trained two Europa crafter characters using only the game client and before the craft menus were changed at publish 14. I didn't get carpel tunnel, because I only crafted for an hour at a time. You don't need scripts to avoid it. You just need some common sense.
     
  42. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    what about approved program like UOAM?
     
  43. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    After Supreem's reply, wouldn't it be fair to remove this poll and re-run it without the first option..?

    Or would it dissappoint(I should say "Inconvenient") some of the posters to see the second and fourth options becoming much more popular than they are?.. rolleyes:
     
  44. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    What about UOCartographer?, Ventrilo, ICQ, Trillian, and UOJournal Converter programs?????
     
  45. BartofCats

    BartofCats Guest

    you forgot the other oddsmakers...

    1) whatever they put into place will make the game so unplayable due to laggyness that they will pull it.

    2) there will be a way around it probably within 1-3 days.

    LOL have a good weekend.
     
  46. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    QFT. This is a perfect example of the ''I want it 10 minutes ago mentality'' that exists in UO these days.
     
  47. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not worried they will ban for UOA.

    What i am worried about is the hackers and farmers who just might be better then the programers on this one and have their cheaters back in uo and running in a few hours after the patch goes in completely undetectable.
     
  48. Splup

    Splup Guest

    How about comment the real point in his reply instead of twisting his words? Even a bad reader can tell that he was pointing out that it's a sorry excuse used by scripters of which 99,9 % have no physical illness what so ever which would prevent them from training skills without scripting.

    And those 0,1 % should prolly read about ergonomics or then just gain little slower. Or maybe they have to change game. I mean I have problems with my left knee (Chondromalacia patellae) and I play beachvolley. Do my opponents get a little advantage cause I can't put weight properly on my left knee atm? Yea they do, but I still can't get a smaller field.

    Yeah I totally get why scripts are widely used, gainining most skills in UO is freaking boring. But pure automatic scripts ain't the right solution. I quess EC already has some repeat things making training easier for ppl. Client/game changes are the way to go.
     
  49. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What if UOAssist and UO just have been given some protocol negotiation to understand each other so to avoid misdetections ?

    That is, each time a UOAssist Macro is fired, UOAssist tells UO in a specific way, perhaps using a unique code that only UOAssist and UO can understand, that the macro is being used by UOAssist and not anything else.

    I have no clue, just think that perhaps it is possible to avoid mistakes involving either UOAssist or the Cartographer third party applications.

    But I am no programmer, so I could well be mistaken.
     
  50. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    just hope you dont forget about the people who dont use windows..

    i use wine with linux.. it works quite well.. if you break it i wont be switching to windows to play a game..