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EM Announcement Taking suggestions for the name of Raymond's order

Discussion in 'UO Atlantic' started by EMTiberies, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    As you know, King Blackthorn has asked Raymond of Minoc to form a new order, analogous to the Knights of Crux Ansata in some ways but answerable only to Blackthorn and not having a long history like the Crux Ansata does.

    This order has no name.

    Raymond is taking suggestions.

    He may or may not pick from the suggestions, he may or may not ever give it a name at all, but he's taking suggestions.

    Post your suggestions here if you have them

    Night's Watch, Fellowship of the Ring, King's Guard, Knights of the Round Table, Order of the Dragon, and Order of the Garter are all already taken.
     
  2. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Am I allowed to make suggestions?

    :devil:

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    Surely
     
    #3 EMTiberies, Dec 2, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  4. keel

    keel Sage
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    Watchers/Paragons/Defenders/Guardians/Realists/Enforcers/Virtuebound
     
  5. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Strange/Unidentified/Strong Armed/Secret Sect/Knights Templar
     
  6. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    In the books of Eragon there is a sect called the Forsworn.... Its an additional idea
     
  7. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Blood Guard
     
  8. SunWolf

    SunWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    The Xenkan Guard
     
  9. keel

    keel Sage
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    Resolution/The Resolute - I think that would fit in nicely with the arty hands he introduced.


    Or maybe The Technocrats :)
     
    #9 keel, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  10. Otis Leroy Funk

    Otis Leroy Funk Journeyman

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    Defenders of the Faith
     
  11. Alexander of ATL.

    Alexander of ATL. Rares Fest Host | Atl June 2013
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    The Dawnguard
    *Smiles* :)
     
  12. Bon Iver

    Bon Iver Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013

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    Wardens of the Black Thorn
     
    #12 Bon Iver, Dec 11, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  13. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I'd just dub it the "Royal Guard" and call it a day, but I'll take a moment to remind others:

    Blackthorn is not a proponent of the Eight Virtues.
    Robo-Blackthorn has been retconned away so "techno" anything thankfully doesn't work.
    Britannia has no theistic relgion, so names with "templar" and "faith" in them are silly.
    Names taken from books and videogames are probably a no-go.

    Honestly, would it kill you guys to think a little?
     
  14. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    Robo-Blackthorn still existed, we just now know that it was not a Robo-Blackthorn, but a robotic Blackthorn-esque entity made by Exodus. Though obviously the new Order would not be a supporter of the Robo-Blackthorn. A mere reference to technology would not necessarily be a support of Robo-Blackthorn. But I will be honest that I am not set on fire by those particular suggestions, but is not for any reason related to Robo-Blackthorn.

    Templar refers to the Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon, also known as the Knights Templar, an order of Christian Paladins from the Middle Ages, Crusades-era. (GEE, HAVE WE HEARD THE NAMES OF ANY GROUPS ON ATLANTIC'S EM EVENTS THAT ARE ECHOS OF THE FULL NAME OF THE TEMPLARS. HINT HINT HINT HINT.) No reason the Virtues can't have a Temple or an order named for that Temple. Whether or not the Virtues are a religion, or whether or not other religions that have nothing to do with the Virtues exist within Britannia is an open question left as much to role-playing as to anything.

    No names are being ruled out at this point. I'm actually nowhere near deciding what it'll be called, and am appreciating the suggestions. Any sincere suggestion will be read and taken into consideration.
     
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  15. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Yeah one could ignore Blackthorn's entire ethos and base the thing on the Virtues, and then asspull a reason to use the word "templar" on top of that, but all anyone would see is "Hello I'm terribly uncreative and only know the name of one knightly order."
     
  16. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Holy cow who peed in your cornflakes-when we put our heads together it helps to think things out-we are a great group of thinkers-give us a chance-this thread is only a half of page long- we still have ......what like 3 or 4 pages to beat our top post-Patience grasshopper
     
  17. Wolf Master

    Wolf Master Adventurer

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    The King's Flight
     
  18. keel

    keel Sage
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    Mine was indeed a nod to the books that were published years ago. If we're being snobby here, I'm certain very few locations lay claim to "relgions".
     
  19. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    I think there's every reason to believe, based on Blackthorn's writings, the meta-fiction written about him, the Atlantic-specific fiction authored by myself and EM Bennu, his in-game actions both game-wide and specifically on Atlantic, that Blackthorn will be a responsible ruler. A responsible ruler will act differently than will a responsible dissenter. Different job descriptions.

    A Virtue-based name is indeed possible and won't be ignoring anything. Blackthorn's writings, first of all I've always thought were more supportive of the Virtues overall than many gave credit for, and second of all were authored as dissent, not as leadership manuals.

    A name with Temple or some variant in it is not likely. While there are Temples in the UO map, there's not a temple I can think of that'll have to do with this Order.

    Nothing is decided; all sincere suggestions are welcome.
     
    #19 EMTiberies, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  20. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    Order of the Black Watch
    Order of Dreams

    Order of Change (This would be apropos given how Blackthorn has changed the kingdom Synonym versions below)
    Order of Reconstruction
    Order of Innovation
    Order of Vicissitude
     
    #20 Tangled Metal, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  21. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    That made me smile. I had a (great?) uncle in the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment). :)
     
  22. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    being of Irish descent, I too, have had many ancestors in the Black Watch. I am from clan MacCool (Original spelling MacCumhail)
     
  23. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Tiberies... As a side note, this could be something spun out of Dupre's Brute Squad that battled the Crux Ansata during the 'troubles' just before the coronation. Or not, it is of course upto you. It was the whole Justice (Crux) vs Honor (Dupre) thing.
     
    #23 EM_Bennu, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  24. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    I am the 23rd Great Grandson of Edward "Longshanks" Plantagenet aka: Edward I of England through his youngest daughter.

    My reign of oppression on Atlantic shall never end. :D

    *totally derails Tiberies post with an evil laugh*

    I do like the "Watch" Aspect...

    Blackthorn is more of a Red I think, than a black.

    I submit the "Royal Order of the Red Watch" or Just the "Red Watch" in most settings.

    There are various Ultima related knightly orders you could hijack as well... Order of the Silver Serpent.

    You could go all secret society with it and maybe the "Guardians of the Old Kings" just called the "Guardians" that guard over the tombs of the old Britannian Kings before Cantabrigain united them... although even mentioning the word Guardian in ultima fiction brings forth a whole different take on things.

    /endmindlessramblings
     
    #24 EM_Bennu, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
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  25. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    How about "The Order of the Crimson Watch"
     
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  26. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Ok my turn to ramble:

    And Bennu I cant believe you didnt come up with a longer name :}

    Royal Britainnian Pest Control
    Masters of the Arts in Warfare
    43rd Battalion Mobile Unit
    The Honor Guard of Twisted Light
    The Kings Regiment under Lord Raymond Of Minoc
    M I A 6
    Britainnia Safety Insurance Group LLC
    Guardians of the Britainnian Royal Circuit Court
    Minocan Guardsman
     
    #26 Queen Arya, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  27. Bon Iver

    Bon Iver Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013

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    The Royal Assembly of His Liege Incarnadine
     
    #27 Bon Iver, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  28. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Oh, I thought about going silly with it... trust me...

    The Glorious Knights of Glorious Glory

    or

    The Sacred Knights of the Right Hand of the Partisan of Chaos

    ...

    I havent really talked to Tiberies about this at all, but I like where you went with that Arya. With Raymond's history tying together the crown and the court might be neat too.
     
  29. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    How about "The Glorious Holy Order Of The Knights that Say Ni"
     
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  30. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    It is almost too bad this is not an illicit order of the King's personal assassins holding non-public trials and the like before they kill. Then we could call it The Star Chamber. Too bad for that and for the fact that I already have (tentative) plans for that name and concept as adversaries.
     
    #30 EMTiberies, Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  31. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Guardians of Britannia
    Knights of the Sun
    Order of the Virtuous Knights of Britannia
    Order of <insert virtue here> so that's really 8.....
    Order of the Sun Ruby
    Knights of the Starr (reference to Starr Long)
    Order of the Eight

    Prior to Ultima V, Blackthorn was a close friend of Lord British, and known as a very virtuous and wise man. It came as no surprise then, that Blackthorn was chosen to rule by Lord British, while he would explore the Underworld. Once the Shadowlords captured Lord British however, they started to twist and poison Blackthorn's mind, making him cruel and evil.
     
  32. Bon Iver

    Bon Iver Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013

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    I like this one.
     
  33. Sono

    Sono Adventurer

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    Shields of Valor

    "The Shield of Valor is one of the eight talismans of Sir Cabirus, representing the virtue of Valor. Once held by Lord Blackthorn before his temporary ascension to the throne, this shield has the fantastic ability to never break because of the magics woven into it. It is a strong symbol of virtue."


    Or...rather than Order of the Eight, how about Keepers of the Eight or Guardians of the Eight?
     
  34. SunWolf

    SunWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    The reason I was saying the Xenkan Guard is cause

    ""Walking through a red Moongate created by Lord British's Orb of the Moons, Blackthorn vanished from Britannia to an unknown location.
    It is known from a book on Serpent Isle that he lived with the Xenkan Monks for an undefined span of time, becoming a humble man by their accounts. He left the monks to go on his own travel before the Avatar arrived on the Serpent Isle. What happened to him after this is not known.""

    Now I don't know if that actualy happened in ultima online's time frame but, Blackthorn is a honorable man and I could see him naming his guard off a small group that aided him in the time of need.
     
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  35. SunWolf

    SunWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    Welp I am being yelled at by Cor saying none of this happened yet. Montor I guess is in the Serpent Island, but we have on in ilsh. So Roland said Montor was actualy built on a remains of an older civilastion, so our ruins in Ilsh could be those older ruins that the city was built upon. Uo kind of does it own thing it seems with a background of ultima. Then again seems the ultima games did the same aswell lol.

    Corinthain's suggestion is Blackthorn's Redshirts, since they are all gonna die anyway in any mission they get sent on
     
    #35 SunWolf, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  36. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    What does that have to do with anything? Go buy a copy of "My Story" by Sherry the Mouse from a provisioner. It's the oldest and most established canon we have on the subject and, spoiler alert, it establishes that Blackthorn sincerely (and in fact correctly) views the Eight Virtues as a path to genocide. His opposition to this potential genocide was the basis for his formulation of the philosophy of Chaos in the first place and pretty much the one central trait which defined the character.

    So no, a Virtue-based name would in fact be pretty dumb.
     
  37. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    So as to save anyone the nuisance of finding the books in game...

    http://oev.hilands.com/library-books.html

    Read "My Story" and then "A Politic Call to Anarchy" and it's obvious that Blackthorn pretty much believed the Virtues to be a conspiracy to destroy the world. Now that you guys have turned the Time Lord into some retired mortal dork who hands out quests, I guess you could play out a storyline where he tells Blackthorn "Haha bro I was lying to British, don't worry, everyone can be virtuous!" or something, but why would you want to?
     
  38. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    I've read both books. I came to my conclusion based on reading them.

    The Virtues are, to Blackthorn, a path to genocide quite specifically because it was believed that if British could get every person on every shard to follow the Virtues, the shards would collapse into Ultima Prime. British by contrast as far as I can tell thought that if the people on the shards never really existed in some sense at all, then it can't quite count as genocide.

    British gave up that quest before he left. Hence it's no longer an issue anyway.

    Regarding the Politic Call I have always found it noteworthy that Blackthorn specified he wouldn't favor hunting the inhuman races "to extinction." There is a great distinction in my mind between not killing, say, orcs at all, and not killing them to extinction.

    And, again, Blackthorn as dissenter vs. Blackthorn as ruler.

    I realize I am not going to convince you. I write so that others won't read you and then come to incorrect conclusions about me based upon my lack of response.
     
  39. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    It doesn't say every person. It says that "When thy populace doth live and breathe these Virtues shall it match the true Britannia, and thy shard shall rejoin with it." It thus stands to reason that the Virtues do not need to become universal in order for the shard to collapse, but rather only as widespread as they are in Ultima Prime. And while the Virtues are the dominant philosophy in Ultima Prime, they are hardly followed by every single person there.

    Also there's nothing in the text about every shard needing to achieve this state simultaneously in order for them to collapse. The nouns are all singular. It refers to "thy shard" rather than "the shards" or some such.

    I'd appreciate a source for this rationalization since it appears nowhere in the text in question. British merely exclaims "All of my people!" and muses upon the "terrible price" that must be paid.

    British is no longer around promoting the world-destroying Virtues, but that doesn't mean Blackthorn would suddenly decide to start doing it himself by dubbing his chosen lackeys "Virtue Knights" or whatever. He should, logically, be making use of his newfound power to promote some other philosophy. If not Chaos, then something else that doesn't blow up the world if too many people adhere to it. Although given the sigils in his castle, yeah, probably Chaos.

    Hell, the most sensible reason for Blackthorn to found a new order in the first place is to create one less steeped in the Virtues than the Crux Ansata.
     
    #39 KLOMP, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  40. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    Again, so everyone knows, I am not posting to convince KLOMP. I know I won't. I'm writing so that this topic won't be subject to the famous Internet victory standard of "you didn't respond therefore the other guy must have won."

    Hair splitting. The intent is fairly obvious whether it's everyone, most everyone, 51% of them, 50.1% of them.

    Either way you wanted to imply that Blackthorn considered the Virtues themselves to be genocidal. This is plainly incorrect, but you knew this, and said it anyway.


    See above. Hair-splitting though I suppose that is necessary in order to maintain this facade of reasonable-ness for a line of argument with only tangential relation to the topic of the thread.


    I was clear that the "never existed" thing was supposition on my part. My language was "as far as I can tell." Based on the fairly obvious premise that British wouldn't be deliberately genocidal and that Lord British was created and played by a fantasy/sci-fi geek who would have been familiar with the temporal paradoxes often found in the latter genre. If you make someone never have existed at all, have you really killed them? Things like that.


    You have shifted your argument somewhat, because I have correctly pointed out that the Virtues themselves are not genocidal nor considered as such in and of themselves by Blackthorn. Blackthorn's fears were, as I have correctly pointed, reactions to a specific situation which has long-since passed.

    You are doing what you do: Passing off your opinions as fact.


    I have made Blackthorn's reasoning clear elsewhere. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your opinion.

    Here is the text of A Political Call to Anarchy by Lord Blackthorn, typos and all:

    http://uo.stratics.com/secrets/books/book_02.shtml

    Here are the key passages:

    Affection for the Virtues? Or for his friend and King's enthusiasm? Subject to the debate but it's surely not what you desperately need it to be in order to derail this thread while still maintaining the facade of reason.

    Most people focus on the 2nd clause, but the 1st has always struck me as more important, because it more-or-less cancels out that Lord Blackthorn, and by extension Chaos, approved of and supported murder as some have argued. (I once years ago saw a PK propose that Chaos should be a Virtue in the Virtue system, but you got points based on how many murder counts you have. Not very Blackthorn and not very Chaos.)

    Again, nothing in there says "I think the Virtues are bad" or "I think the Virtues are not worth promoting." Especially when the looming phantom of inadvertent genocide is presumed.

    Now, again, I realize I won't convince you and I suspect that in fact you don't actually take seriously much of what you have posted. But I am, due to my position, obliged to respond.
     
    #40 EMTiberies, Dec 21, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  41. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I think what Blackthorn was saying is that he supports the virtues, but people should follow them because they feel it's right for them, because they want to, not because they are forced to by some outside force.
     
  42. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Incorrect. The Virtues are a "path to genocide" because of the fact that genocide will happen if enough people adhere to them. Anything else is you putting words in my mouth.

    Furthermore, the difference between the trigger being "everyone on every shard" versus "a bare majority on this shard" following the Virtues is massive, since the former is an utter impossibility while the latter is not.

    What are you talking about? What temporal paradox? The Time Lord says that the shards will merge with the original, not retroactively erase from existence. He says that everyone without a counterpart will "perish utterly" to use his exact words. That's pretty unambiguous.

    The concept of a temporal paradox isn't discussed and there's no reason to imagine that one exists. The shards aren't multiple timelines occurring in a single world, they're individual copies of that world existing simultaneously in a single timeline.

    This is basic premise-of-the-game type stuff here.

    No. The idea that I think the Virtues are somehow morally flawed in a way that leads to people committing genocide is just you making things up. That is what you were getting at, right? It's hard to tell sometimes. I called the Virtues "genocidal" because it's unambiguously stated by an essentially omniscient source that genocide will happen if too many people believe in them, your totally made-up hooey about "temporal paradoxes" not withstanding.

    Furthermore this situation has "passed" in the sense that Lord British gave it up, went away, and is no longer pushing the Virtues. That doesn't mean it would somehow make sense for Blackthorn to start pushing them himself. There's nothing in the text saying that merging the shards has now become impossible, so hey Blackthorn go ahead and start doing that thing you spent years trying to stop British from doing.

    "British is no longer trying to push the doomsday button! Hooray, we're safe! That means it must be safe for ME to push the doomsday button!"

    Oh Tibby, are you this bad at subtext or are you being dishonest on purpose? There's a certain portion of the text you forgot to mention.
    So when we look at the book entire, we have Blackthorn going "Gee guys, I'm cool with honesty and compassion and stuff in principle, but maybe do your own thing anyway. After all, for all you know the Virtues are a plot to destroy the world. WINK WINK, WINK AT ANYONE WHO READ SHERRY'S BOOK!" Yet for some reason you seize on that first bit to the exclusion of everything else.

    A Political Call to Anarchy was written as Blackthorn's response to the events of My Story, and it's written from the perspective of someone who knows he can't tell the truth (about British consorting with extradimensional beings and such) without being written off as a crank.

    Blackthorn probably would promote the Virtues in a world where he hadn't been told that too many people believing in them would destroy everything. Unfortunately he has been told that.

    This is the paradox and the entire literary point of Blackthorn as a character in Ultima Online: That despite being a good man by nature, he is forced to oppose seemingly benign Virtues that he might otherwise approve of. If he were not a good man, he could easily have shrugged and nodded, gone along with British and the Time Lord, and made his own life easier in the process.

    But you go on and keep having this imaginary debate against a "Blackthorn is evil and thinks it's awesome to murder!" position that no one has actually expressed.

    Temporal paradox. LOL.
     
    #42 KLOMP, Dec 21, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  43. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    Your implication was clear; going back on it now does no good.


    I wouldn't assume all that much is impossible in a fantasy context.

    Not likely, perhaps, but impossible is stretching it, and in any case, in present context the difference is, at best, academic. The point is that there was nothing genocidal about the Virtues themselves. You have gone back on yourself and, predictably, refuse to admit it.


    I fail to see the philosophical difference between a parallel universe being merging and being erased. So do you, you are just....Well, doing what you do.


    Something exists, it falls back into that which it came from. Did it really exist at all? Especially since it was but a shadow to begin with.

    I never said they were multiple timelines occurring in a single world. Again, you make things up.


    Indeed, why you are rewriting one of the central premises of the game by attempting to rewrite the relationship between Blackthorn and British, and between Blackthorn and the Virtues, is quite beyond me.


    No, you were clearly implying that the Virtues themselves were genocidal. I have explained myself clearly, you are making things up. Again.


    This thread is about naming the Order. There's no actual good reason to not name the Order after the dominant philosophical system of the people. One which it's fairly clear that Blackthorn accepts the basics of.


    Again, naming the order doesn't necessarily result in everyone following the Virtues. Also following the Virtues can be a matter of degree.


    I was clear that I was taking passages, not the entire text. I linked to the entire text so that people could see for themselves.

    The demon thing, it's rather clearly you that's mis-reading, or rather mis-stating, the context. Blackthorn clearly says "this might be true, you'll never know for sure unless you question."

    LOLs and bolding text do not make you correct. You are not correct and I will not pretend you are.

    You are absolutely free to not come to my events if the basics of the in-game mythology are not pleasing to you.
     
  44. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    This is a transparent attempt on your part to salvage some measure of dignity in a thread where you're being badly exposed. I won't suffer such amateurish tactics though, so let's look at the actual posts. Quotes from myself shall be red, while yours shall be yellow.
    This is the first incident of the word "genocide" in the thread and it's pretty obvious that it refers to all the people who would utterly perish if the shards were merged, not some other random thing that isn't in My Story at all. Indeed you seem to understand this clearly in your very next reply.
    You've got your own wacky opinion on the matter at the point quoted above, but you seem to know perfectly well that I'm referring to the shards collapsing, not some other weird thing, and my "clear implication" mysteriously hasn't occurred to you yet. Funny that.

    In my next response I refer to the Virtues as "world-destroying" which is even less ambiguous, but from there on out it doesn't matter, you're off on your weird tangent where you act like I'm referring to some other bizarre thing that has nothing to do with the subject.

    You know what man, it's a one-page thread so far and the exchange in question takes place across like four whole posts. Copy, paste, and drop some quotes you think I've "gone back on" or quit posturing.

    Good god man, the philosophical implications of a thing "falling back into that which it came from" are barely relevant when the entire point of the story is that most of British's people do not have counterparts in Ultima Prime to "fall back into" at all and would thus "utterly perish" instead if their shard was merged around them.

    That's like... literally the entire point. Whatever you think of merging, good or bad, most people just plain don't get to do it because they have nothing to merge with.

    Look man, if there aren't multiple conflicting timelines taking place in the same world then comparisons with a "temporal paradox" don't really mean anything. Sue me for trying to put your words into some sort of functioning logical framework.

    It's clear now that the paradox reference was nothing but a very sloppy metaphor on your part for the way shard inhabitants with counterparts in Ultima Prime would merge with them. I say sloppy because, again, it ignores the fact that most people don't have counterparts, don't merge at all, and just die instead.

    Hurf blurf. Paste quotes.

    Except for the part where he once overheard an omnipotent being saying that widespread acceptance of that system would kill everyone. A fact which has never been refuted, even if the threat has currently passed due to its main proponent having gone away.

    I mean I'm sure Bennu could write something where it's suddenly discovered that the shards will no longer merge no matter how many people believe in the Virtues, thus making it safe for Blackthorn to promote them. People would wonder why his castle was full of Chaos symbols, but it could be done. He hasn't, though.

    Blackthorn experiences the events related in My Story, where he learns that Lord British is conspiring with a powerful extradimensional being, and that the Virtues can potentially destroy the world and kill almost everyone.

    He then writes A Political Call To Anarchy, where he basically says "You never know, the Virtues might be a conspiracy between a demon and Lord British to destroy the world. Ha ha, just playing, but seriously you don't know."

    And you think this is... a coincidence? You think that these two references, probably written by the same developer around the same time, have nothing in particular to do with one another?

    Seriously?

    The fact that I am correct makes me correct.
     
    #44 KLOMP, Dec 22, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  45. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    You know what man, I'll make it simple.

    1) I refer to the in-game book My Story, where it states that enough people believing in the Virtues will cause all of British's people to utterly perish.

    2) In direct reference to this book, I call the Virtues a path to genocide.

    3) You decide that by genocide, I do NOT mean the part of the book in question where everyone might die.

    4) Instead, you decide that I am making a completely different argument, having nothing to do with the book, claiming that the Virtues are somehow morally flawed and will, in and of themselves, cause people to actually go out and commit genocide.

    This is seriously what you're putting forth with a straight face in a thread that anyone can read. Seriously.

    If anyone reading this can paste an actual quote of mine from a post in this thread, complete with context, wherein I actually articulate the argument expressed in point 4 above as one in which I believe, I will give them 100 million gold on Atlantic.

    Spoiler Alert: You can't, because no such quote exists.
     
    #45 KLOMP, Dec 22, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  46. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Could go with Latin I guess. Equites Regis

    There is a belief that both chaos and order are necessary in any world to achieve balance, an excess of either is undesireable. May I respectfully suggest that this topic gets back on track? ie suggesting names rather than arguing Blackthorn's possible motives and philosophy?
     
    keel likes this.
  47. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    You quoted yourself, your quote had a clear meaning, your going back on it changes nothing.

    Nor does your bolding text.

    In all honesty your last two posts were so full of rage that they were difficult to follow.

    You bolded text, but that does not make you correct, because you are not. All you really have is spouting opinion as fact and going back on yourself.

    You are encouraged to not attend my events if the official fiction of the game displeases you. I will not alter it to suit your needs or wishes.

    Now, we must go on with this thread as it originally was: Suggestions for names for the order. Some of these suggestions angered you, hence you decided to derail the thread.


     
  48. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Okay champ, I'll raise the stakes. If you or anyone else can post a quote from me in which I put forth the argument in question as my own, I will not only stop posting on this forum forever but I will also never again attend an Atlantic EM event. If you decline to do so, I can only assume that either you're wrong and know it, or that really you enjoy my company and wish to keep me around.

    Either way, Petra has asked us politely to cease this line of discussion, and so I will give you the last word from here on, rather than watch you try to squeak it in. Again.

    For the record, and to be very specific since this is a serious wager, the argument is thus: That when I described the Virtues as a "path to genocide" this was NOT because the Virtues are the key to collapsing the shards, as described in the book My Story to which I directly referred at the time. Rather, I was supposedly making a completely different claim unrelated to My Story, that the Virtues themselves were morally flawed and would cause people to go out and physically commit atrocities.

    As far as the name of Raymond's order goes, I enjoy a nice Latin name as much as the next guy. Nothing makes something sound important like Latin. It does, however, lack that vital "EM Tiberies" quality we've all come to love. Consider, our friend here has named his mysterious knights The Mysterious Knights, and his dragon cult is called The Dragon Cult. I find it only fitting that Raymond's order be named Raymond's Order. It's a name loaded with all the charm and creativity we've come to expect.
     
  49. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Yes and still you keep going on about it and you want the last word. You keep going on in the offence and i'm tired of it that you keep bashing EMTiberies. I let it go at first but now i'm tired of it. This is MY warning before i remove you from this forum.

    Say you opinion but do not force it on others. you are warned, don't test my patience.
     
  50. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I like this one as well, especially as a writer and story teller, while it implies the 8 virtues, you can always have it really mean something else.