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Tamers in PVP

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Guest, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi All

    Just thought i'd ask for some further opinions about tamers in PVP.

    What do you lot think about it?

    At the moment there is a big "problem" on multiple shards with tamers in pvp. Although now there is no longer the problem of the unkillable tamer like before, its still amazingly powerful in a group situation.

    Now, i'm all for tamers defending themselves, in fact applaud those tamers who put up a fight!

    I'm not trying to troll or anything, I just want to get a feel for the ideas i'm thinking of to try and help "balance" tamers in pvp, while not having too much of an effect on tamers just hunting in fel.

    The best i could think of was something to do with pet ball summoning. At the moment most tamers in pvp will summon their pets out of nowhere and set them on you once they've bola'd/dismounted you. Not a whole lot you could do. However, if they weren't able to keep on summoning them, it would tone down their surprise killing a lot more. It would give players more of a chance to fight back, by maybe killing their pets or something.

    So... how about something along the lines of "no summoning pets when you are flagged". This of course refers to starting a fight, not defending yourself...

    What do you tamers make of that? Please be gentle...
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just add a timer for reuse.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    summoning balls should never have been intro'd at all.. my feeling..

    the log out to save a pet is another abused system.. and using it to get a freshly tamed pet back to the stable also....

    but in pvp.. I dont think its cool for a tamer to seek out solo targets.. as its no different that a single player being jumped by multible other players.. a gank is a gank yet when a tamer does it its some how even a worse gank and just breeds more dislike of the profession ... odd but thats how it seems..
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think the pet balls are a problem still. Definitely shouldn't work during the heat of battle. I've suggested this before but:

    Pets should forget who they were attacking before summoning. That'd help tamers when they pull a pet out a dungeon only for it to fly off screen. In PvP, couple it with a delay of 5 secs after summoning, where the pet will ignore any kill or guard commands. Again that won't hurt the PvM tamer, but will screw up the PvP gimps.

    I'd also be cruel and say pets shouldn't bond till the tamer has the necessary lore and vet skill to res them. Why would you bond with an owner who couldn't take care of you? That would mean you'll only be chased by bonded pets if their owners commit to a full taming template, otherwise it's throwaway pets. And I know from ye old days how much PvPers like killing unbonded pets [​IMG] Satisfying too!

    I'm pretty out of practice in PvP, I swear I never get attacked when I'm touting a pet that can fight, so invariably I'm pulling a hapless cu sidhe back, because his "victim" is tired of falling over the useless git. I don't know how well the kitsune handler fared during the last harry, but I'd say those or runey/mare combo are still very dangerous IMO.

    If you want to do some testing though, I'm sure us Europa tamers could oblige [​IMG] I don't gimp at all, but can always try for scientific purposes heh.

    Wenchy
     
  5. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    coming from fighting tamers and the other side of the coin there is a part of me that like people carring alot of stuff and pet balls are stuff makes that incurance money higher when you kill them.

    but really the only people effected by pet balls are a. people who are really bad at pvp i know this is accualy 80% of the UO pvp playerbase.and rescouse gatheres(ie miner/lj). now the poor miner is toast and it just means one person can enfoce tax permits instead of a group having to do it but now if that miner was a tamer as well then we have a whole diffent senero and the use of a pet ball

    trying to pk somebody and having a dragon show up now thats funny, well that shock value would not work in KR right now becouse they would know it was a drake but in the past it was funny. but with the new mining system it hard to run the hotspots so your back to making a drake work hehe
     
  6. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    and in real life you don't take a pack of coon dogs out duck hunting and you don't take bird dogs out after bear
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    and one cant run around with 500 pounds in a pack the size of a big purse either...

    as far as Im concerned.. about the only thing that should relate between UO and the real world is people skills and how one treats others and each other... including forums
     
  8. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    and one cant run around with 500 pounds in a pack the size of a big purse either...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ahh the old use one extream arguent to displace a logical one, always loved that one

    the devs have said stone is not a wight it is also how bulkie something is or how hrd it is to move easiey that is way a candle weight 2 stones lite it's hard to keep light while moving it that and i just assume that most rpgs the chars are way stronger than we are anyways otherwise there would not really be pvp there would be a small fight and then 30 healers running around hualing everybody back to the medics

    there always has to be some basic things that are reality based otherewise there is no point of referance

    and the question i always ask and never get an awnser to is this as far as how you treat people

    if somebody has herndous body oder at work and you don't pull them aside and point that out try to help them somehow becouse you don't want to hurt there feeling. are you accually a freind or foe?
     
  9. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    Curious, outside of the Abyss shards, what shard have a 'serious problem' with tamers?

    Are there any shards out there with any real % of tamers vs other temps that defines it as serious???

    Maybe, if Origin had like 10 PVP tamers, it would be serious there, but most shards would need well over 20 active tamers to even begin to become a serious issue. But then, you see 5 active peacers, and 0 active tamers...
     
  10. I was always under the impression that the gimp tamer templates you see on Siege and the like were just too hard for the gimped PvP comunity on normal shards.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    btw... 500 stones would be 7000 pounds....kk

    real world stone as in weight measurements.

    and its ok for you to compare real world to UO and I cant use what I wish too??

    KK
     
  12. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    if a stone was pure weight it would be a ton accually assuming that a pitcher of water is a gallon but it's also take encombance into play and a gallon of liguid slosses around way more than a soild 8 pounds so that is what stones do takes two or more sytems and uses one number for them


    also a light candle would weight 8 pounds
     
  13. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    Siege gimp vs prodo gimp are two hugely different beasts.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I was fully expecting to get flamed when i posted this, so it's a nice surprise to see my flame proof suit was unnecessary.

    I also agree that you shouldn't be able to bond pets using jewellery. I couldn't believe it when i heard this was the case. I find that rediculous.

    I play on europa and there are several guilds which use tamers a lot. Actually, they centre around their tamer. As in, most of their tactics surround the use of their tamer.

    I'm glad for the support on the tamer side of things, it gives me hope that should a thread be posted re. tamer pvp, theres a chance it might get fixed. It's quite refreshing, most classes cry when people talk about changing something which isn't quite right (how many ninja's cried about deathstrike change!?!).

    kudos to tamers!
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, hey Zole, and welcome [​IMG]

    I'd like to see:-

    (1) Real-skill based Can't tame/Can't bond;

    (2) Inability to use pet summoning balls when flagged as aggressor;

    (3) A 5-second timer delay on individual pet summoning balls; and

    (4) Insta-log/auto-stable feature disabled on flagged or fighting pets.

    This was an interesting thread on UHall - while it started out as a plea to nerf-rune beetles, there were some interesting points raised about tamers in pvp generally.

    ~Vix~
     
  16. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    Ok, you say they rely heavily on tamers, then switch to heavily supporting -a- tamer.

    While both can very valid, I'm curious as to which is the normal?

    Do they run with only 1, or few in general, but do everything in their power to support that tamer? Or they just zerging with pets?

    I've always agreed that a tamer has huge offensive ability. It's always been that way, though their limiting factor has always been fairly weak templates for anything not pet related. (Not to mention a great majority of tamers who do (try) to PVP do not do very well when it comes to skills not involving pets.)

    I've been PVPing on my tamer for about 5 or 6 years out of the 7 I've played. I consider myself very good at it, as I do not -require- support to be effective. I've yet to see another tamer on LS that can truly hold their own.

    When I've got support, and I have the right terrain, I'm a wrecking ball, and always have been. We've been able to turn 10v4 fights into our favor in seconds because of pets, and massive xhealing/curing, etc.

    I understand peoples concerns about pets, but I wish to know from people, if tamers are really that powerfull, why are they always greatly outnumbered template wise?

    If I can be a walking train wreck (situation dependant), why am I the only one on LS that's regular?


    I personally think playing a tamer to a high level of effectiveness in PVP requires a huge amount of skill as compared to other templates. True PVP tamers don't -need- bolas, they don't -need- the lucky shots, and they don't -need- to run away, or chase people in dog form summing pets.

    Take away dog form summoning, pets balls (I'd cry), do you think it'll kill the really dangerous tamers? I don't think so. They're dangerous because they know how to play their full template.

    I'd be all for completly removing pet balls if pets listened properly myself. I actually get anoyed at having ot use charges just to keep my pets in line.
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>


    (1) Real-skill based Can't tame/Can't bond;


    [/ QUOTE ]
    I agree
    <blockquote><hr>



    (2) Inability to use pet summoning balls when flagged as aggressor;


    [/ QUOTE ]
    I disagree. This comes from the idea that the tamer is starting the fight. If you are hunting and you see two pks running towards you (no doubt they are going after you), if you wait for them to attack, as a tamer you are dead before you can even command your pet(s). Such a change would put the tamer disadvantage when separated from his pets (common and understandable pk tactic). A lot of hunting grounds are already coded in order to forbid pet's ball summoning
    <blockquote><hr>



    (3) A 5-second timer delay on individual pet summoning balls; and


    [/ QUOTE ]
    I agree. A normal tamer should not have to repeatedly use a pet summoning ball. This is/was abused by ninja tamers in animal form, following their target
    <blockquote><hr>



    (4) Insta-log/auto-stable feature disabled on flagged or fighting pets.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Mixed feelings. It is certainly abused, but most of the time by dead people who are anyway already out of combat. Also see point two above : The use of the agressor flag is kinda artificial (besides there are lots of flag oddities around)

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree [with Inability to use pet summoning balls when flagged as aggressor]. This comes from the idea that the tamer is starting the fight. If you are hunting and you see two pks running towards you (no doubt they are going after you), if you wait for them to attack, as a tamer you are dead before you can even command your pet(s). Such a change would put the tamer disadvantage when separated from his pets (common and understandable pk tactic).

    [/ QUOTE ]If I'm out hunting on a tamer, there's little likelihood my pets aren't already long since out of the stable. I'm unclear where the disadvantage is.

    <blockquote><hr>

    A lot of hunting grounds are already coded in order to forbid pet's ball summoning.

    [/ QUOTE ]Some dungeon areas and Ilshenar apart from the gypsy stable areas. One of my red neighbours has a habit of leaving his rune beetle in his private house. My crafter notices it disappears regularly. Without spelling it out, there are workarounds to circumvent the no summon coding and no pet ball needed - hence my wish number 4. [​IMG]

    <blockquote><hr>

    Mixed feelings [about insta-log/auto-stable feature disabled on flagged or fighting pets]. It is certainly abused, but most of the time by dead people who are anyway already out of combat. Also see point two above : The use of the agressor flag is kinda artificial (besides there are lots of flag oddities around)

    [/ QUOTE ]I see auto-log abused in both pvp and pvm settings. My general thoughts are that if I'm big enough &amp; skilled enough to use my pets in either setting, I'm also big enough &amp; skilled enough to retrain them if I get myself &amp; my pets killed. I do agree there are a number of flag weirdities.

    Appreciate your input, Anakena - especially where we don't necessarily agree!

    Good luck and good hunting, whatever your prey may be. [​IMG]
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree. This comes from the idea that the tamer is starting the fight. If you are hunting and you see two pks running towards you (no doubt they are going after you), if you wait for them to attack, as a tamer you are dead before you can even command your pet(s). Such a change would put the tamer disadvantage when separated from his pets (common and understandable pk tactic). A lot of hunting grounds are already coded in order to forbid pet's ball summoning

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is possible to keep pets close with some strong pet handling, I used to do that all the time before pet balls, in the days when the favoured trick was pulling a pet through some death gate or other.

    I can see your point though, I hate having my pets killed by anyone and I know that if pet balls got royally nerfed, some of the good tamers would have problems. That said, I never carry pet balls during PvP, no point giving someone extra insurance gold if they score a kill [​IMG] I take strong pets with me and if I die and think pets will get killed, I'll res, recall from a charged runebook and summon my pets from the bank. Nothing on my corpse is worth more than my pets, and it's pretty rare that a player kills my pets [​IMG]

    I am a bit naughty using the insta log thing, but it's there to be used and that's my excuse :p

    Wenchy
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [quote[(1) Real-skill based Can't tame/Can't bond;

    (2) Inability to use pet summoning balls when flagged as aggressor;

    (3) A 5-second timer delay on individual pet summoning balls; and

    (4) Insta-log/auto-stable feature disabled on flagged or fighting pets.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    1. yes. someone replied saying something like "wel lthen change all jewels". i find that amusing. the tactics change to wep skills... you cant use tactics jewellery to enable you to use specials, although you can use them for a damage bonus. it should be like that with taming. if you want to twink with jewels then fine, but you shouldnt be able to get them bonded.

    2. yes. someone said if you attack someones pets it makes the tamer agressor. i dont know if this is true or not (i dont play a tamer in pvp) but that should obviously be changed. something else should be that when a tamer attacks you with their pets their pets should get their agressor status... i've been attacked by tamers in guard zones and when ive gone for their pets its flagged me.

    3. Yes.

    4. This is tricky. i think originally the log out thing was put in to protect tamers who've lost con/crashed etc, which i think is good. but at current it is used in fel to protect your pets. Which i think... is not cool. It's one of the few things you can do vs tamers to effect them. Kill their pets.
     
  21. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    1. Curious, where did you see any mention of real vs adjusted skill for tactics requirements? I never noticed such a thing.

    2. Yes, tamers get flagged when someone attacks their pets. Wether they are flagged or not, attacking a pet incures their flagging wrath (I can only assume when you 'flag' on a pet, they -first- flag on you in 'response')

    It's also a royal pain to control pets, especially when people sit there holding down an attack last macro. I don't care if I started the fight, I still want control of my 300 skill point cost pets.

    4. I've would be fine with a delay upon logout for stabling. That or actually stable them. (Meaning you can't just relog to resummon them)
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    re. tactics thing, was posted on uhall first day of changes. whether it was intended or not, i dont know but its a good change as far i see it. i hope it follows for tamers re. bonding.

    a player spamming attack last is not without cost, i know because i have tried that tactic and although its good for getting a pet off a friend, its not that great for my own health. if you start the fight, then you should finish it. In the same way, if i attack someone, i cant recall out afterwards, even if it turns out that there is ten men vs me.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Who would have thought we would be posting in the tamers forum, Zole? [​IMG]

    My preference would be to turn off pet ball summoning (and retrieve pets on logout/in) for non-rideable pets in the Fel Lost Lands and champ dungeons if you have a control slot in use; so a tamer could still call one nightmare to ride for instance.

    If you are a 'real' tamer then this shouldn't effect you much as you can lead your pets in and res them if needed. PvP pet owners though would find it harder to control their pets to get them where they are going and, most importantly, wouldn't be able to keep moving them around easily to run down targets.

    This would still allow the pets to be powerful but more as fixed defences than an instant mobile gank-squad.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Who would have thought we would be posting in the tamers forum, Zole?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The things I do in the name of improving pvp.... *shudders*.

    Luckily these tamers are nice! No bolas or all kill's... yet.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Zole, you, Noxin &amp; Nixon know me, Fox, too, at least peripherally, and if there's anything you want to try out in the interests of improving pvp balance, just give me a shout. Serious. I'll make myself and the necessary pets available for testing, whether it's on Europa or over on test. Unfortunately, I'm still limited by skill to bake kitsunes over on Siege or I'd offer that location, too.
     
  26. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    Hail,

    UO Characters use magical "bags of holding," which magically reduce the size and weight of items placed within them.

    Elladan
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Awww, we appreciate yer efforts Zole [​IMG]

    My thief and bard tried doing their bit last night... gimp gate hugger turns up and starts a killing spree on reds.. Sophia swipes a few goodies (sadly his balls were insured; pet balls that is, but I'm sure he had the others covered too... well what he had for em...) then took great delight in disco + kitsune killing his runey, mare being dead when I got there heh.

    Typical some noto blue then whacked my bard before I got the owner, but more annoying because if I'd been up to speed and dismounted, I'd have had that git too. Hate being noto'd when I'm working [​IMG] I also hate when my lack of practice kills me lol. I never care if I get genuinely out gunned, but death by stupidity... pffft.

    Wenchy
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hail,

    UO Characters use magical "bags of holding," which magically reduce the size and weight of items placed within them.

    Elladan

    [/ QUOTE ]
    yet magical bags of holding had a con to them.... one could lose something stashed in them..... [​IMG]
     
  29. Dark Angel

    Dark Angel Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    summoning balls should never have been intro'd at all.. my feeling..

    the log out to save a pet is another abused system.. and using it to get a freshly tamed pet back to the stable also....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't mind the pet balls... because you can only summon the pets you have linked to it and unless you want to carry a ton of insured items, then it's w/e

    I hate the log out/in system because WAY too many ppl abuse it. I've killed tamers and, when they die, I'll try to take out their pets but they always log out/in and it sucks. I think if someone is in heat of battle or their pets are flagged then they shouldn't be able to do that until the timer is reset.

    I have no problem with tamers in PvP. I am a tamer that PvPs and, like you said, we are killable... in fact we die easily that A LOT of people think. You just have to know how to kill us right.

    Tamers are a template available to play on UO. Just because they are powerful doesn't mean they should be nerfed. Just figure out a template that is more powerful than the tamer (i.e. the bard).

    PS - as a tamer I hate bards. I hate when I'm in Yew and a peace/disco bard comes through and messes with muh pets, but that's part of the game. What do I do? I put my pets up and get out my bow.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm glad to the love that's been shown in this thread regarding changes for pvp.

    There are a few options for "fixing" pets in pvp all together (in my opinion).

    First of all need to sort out the flagging stuff with pets. If someone all kill's a person, they and the pets should now be flagged. Likewise, if someone attacks a pet it should by extension mark the person as flagged to the tamer who owns the pet. This isn't about "fixing" pet pvp this is just common sense flagging rules.

    "fixes"

    1. Summon balls. Remove ability to use them in dungeons/lost lands, remove ability to use them in heat of battle (a fight that you started). Put a timer between uses. Something like this.

    2. Insta stable pets when dead/log out. This is way too abused by people (not just tamers, anyone with a mount).

    3. Pet damage/specials. It's pretty insane vs players. Should be adjusted for vs players (keep it how it is in PVM).

    I can see why it's difficult, pet's are used to fight really powerful creatures with tons of HP, but it is hard when you try to convert those same pets to fight players, with a fraction of the HP.

    i've got a cold so this post isn't as nice as i would have liked, but i really do appreciate the support you tamers have shown.

    thanks!
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *hands Zole a lemsip* :p

    Flagging sure needs a fix, isn't it still possible to count a tamer by attacking their pets or something? I'm sure I've read about that somewhere, but I've no idea how it works heh.

    Wenchy
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>




    3. Pet damage/specials. It's pretty insane vs players. Should be adjusted for vs players (keep it how it is in PVM).

    I can see why it's difficult, pet's are used to fight really powerful creatures with tons of HP, but it is hard when you try to convert those same pets to fight players, with a fraction of the HP.



    [/ QUOTE ]


    just a opposite point on the above.... not disagreeing nor agreeing with the above....


    Damage specials... whats the difference between a pet having specials and doing X amount of damage and yes pets do have a base damage just like weapons and a players template doing their own specials? and being able to do X amount of damage?

    Whats the difference between a tamer and his or her two pets aka three attackers (more often without the tamer) and three real players characters attacking the same target?

    Pets have pretty dumb AI when it comes to knowing which threat needs to be addressed first and which isnt

    Player characters do not need another player to tell them which target to attack and if targetting is lost need another to tell them to retarget... player characters when targetting is lost dont just go idle

    Player characters dont automatically go wander off to attack something off screen that has targeted them unless they want to aka they dont stop in the middle of a fight to go try to kill something else

    Last I heard respond slayers do not work in pvp where as slayers do work against AI controlled mobiles

    There is no difference in three or more players attacking a solo target than a tamer with two pets attacking a solo target.. a gank is a gank no matter the flavor

    there is no difference between 10 players attacking 10 others that have 3 of those ten made up of 3 pets and not players

    Over the years one hears from the pvp community that pvm is lame as the monsters (aka pets in the wild state) are dumb and easy and no challenge... until they get killed by a tamer then its omg overpowered and blah blah...

    Most cry nerf this or that without even bothering to use the part that is suppose to make pvp so much better than pvm... their brains... they dont bother to learn new tactics or how to quickly switch tactics when they are faced with a different opponent...

    anyways... just as I said a different way to look at it
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    didn't see what was posted, but i also want peace!

    I hope my post didn't come across too agressively, i just took some serious issue with some of the views you have, but of course they are your views, so np np.

    i tried to put proper answers to your poins and not just be rude, it was hard for me! hehe.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Heheh well you sure made me laugh about your less than obedient guildmates :p Know the feeling, dunno how many times I've yelled at folk to stay on screen, hit the same target and not wander off!

    The one thing I do like about the tamers here is that we can have all sorts of disagreements, but we almost always respect each other afterwards heh.

    Wenchy
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wenchy:
    in my guild we have a player who would famously come to a fight and stand there and ask who the target was. Even now, after he's stopped playing, we still refer to him everytime someone asks a similar question!
     
  37. JoyousGard

    JoyousGard Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    (1) Real-skill based Can't tame/Can't bond;


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't like this idea because I don't have the real skill yet, but when I do have the real skill I will like this idea.

    I know I should learn to love taming and hunting with 5 polar bears. Learn about taming and controlling animals by taming grey wolves and having them bond and kill harpies, but that isn't fun.

    I worked very hard from 0 to 80 but I am burned out and I want competitive pets. Spending a weekend to go from 80-90 (If I am lucky!) to be able to tame a hellhound is not rewarding.

    I don't mind taming 20 panthers a night to gradually improve my skill, but to force me to play with them is not fair IMO. A I said though, as soon as I hit 100 real I will join aboard

    PS - I only comment because I am looking through the boards as I am having bonding problems (pets are not bonding after 7 calendar days in the stables) and I am reading all the posts that come up with the words "Bonding" or "Problems" in the post
     
  38. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    I've said this a few dozen times. The only place tamers are over powered in pvp is on Siege. On Siege, a bonded pet should count as your Siege blessed item, that would fix that problem. You can tell there is a problem with tamers being over powered on Siege because there are a lot of pvp tamers.

    In the regular rules set there are plenty of checks and balances on tamers, and there aren't many that actually play pvp tamers, and far fewer who are any good at it. I've seen plenty of tamers who get a rune beetle and think they are going to pwn in pvp. They generally die several times in a row, along with their pets, before they give up and decide to try something else. At least that is the way it is on Catskills where I pvp.

    In pvp, nobody likes tamers. This goes back to the days when tamers really were over powered, and to the fact that if you are facing a good pvp tamer, you have to change your tactics. And yes, there are some pvp tamers who are so good that almost no one can beat them one on one, in the same way that there are mages, or dexxers, that almost no one can beat one on one. It isn't because tamers, or dexxers, or mages are overpowered, it just happens to be that they are very good at what they do.

    The real issue here is that there are plenty of pvp'rs who think that tamers shouldn't be a part of pvp period, and won't be happy until they are completely useless in pvp. I guess the day they succeed, which they probably will, I'll have to find a different hobby...
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    (1) Real-skill based Can't tame/Can't bond;

    [/ QUOTE ]I don't like this idea because I don't have the real skill yet, but when I do have the real skill I will like this idea.

    [/ QUOTE ]My thoughts follow Zole's on this point. Can't tame/Can't OWN is substantially different from Can't Tame/Can't BOND.

    The latter (can own, just can't <u>bond</u> without sufficient tame/lore) would mean +skill item tamers would be able to accept transfer and use high level pets, they simply would not be able to bond with them until they achieve sufficient skill to tame the critter. To my mind, it's actually a perfect incentive to progress in the taming skill.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I know I should learn to love taming and hunting with 5 polar bears. Learn about taming and controlling animals by taming grey wolves and having them bond and kill harpies, but that isn't fun.

    [/ QUOTE ]And here I thought we made our own fun! Have you actually tried it, hunting with lesser critters, that is? You see, taking my trained giant rat through Despise with a contingent of fellow mad tamers with their assortment of albino &amp; normal squirrels, mongbats, an imprisoned dog, and a sheep absolutely ranks as one of the most fun experiences I've had in UO over the course of 9yrs.

    *waves to Noxin, Kas Valentine &amp; Fluffi Bunni (&lt;-- chief instigator of Silly Pets in Dungeons Run)*

    [​IMG]

    <blockquote><hr>

    I worked very hard from 0 to 80 but I am burned out and I want competitive pets. Spending a weekend to go from 80-90 (If I am lucky!) to be able to tame a hellhound is not rewarding.

    [/ QUOTE ]You are so close to bake kitsunes! And bake kitsunes are most certainly competitive - I regularly use them in pairs (or a bake/rune beetle combo) for Peerless, Gauntlet and even for guarding against invasion at Champ Spawns in Felucca.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I don't mind taming 20 panthers a night to gradually improve my skill, but to force me to play with them is not fair IMO. A I said though, as soon as I hit 100 real I will join aboard

    [/ QUOTE ]This proposal prevents no one from using whatever pet your skill and +skill items permit. Instead, it simply restricts the pets with which you are able to bond - No bad thing to my mind since hunting with an unbonded pet teaches us both caution and ensures we learn how/when/where to pick our fights.

    <blockquote><hr>

    PS - I only comment because I am looking through the boards as I am having bonding problems (pets are not bonding after 7 calendar days in the stables) and I am reading all the posts that come up with the words "Bonding" or "Problems" in the post

    [/ QUOTE ]You're welcome to create another thread with all the info and I'm sure we'll add what knowledge we have to assist.

    Good luck &amp; good hunting!
     
  40. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    The awnser to tamers in PvP is the BARD damm this seems so obivous to me wheres your heads! discord a pet wow that died fast provok it on the tmaer lol that was fun
    I mean jeessz
     
  41. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Just for the record, I don't have any problem with them getting rid of the stabling on disconnect, if they also get rid of skill decay in pets, and as long as they eventually stable, in the same way you are logged off the server when you aren't in an inn or a house, so that they don't go wild on you. But as long as there is skill decay in pets, getting rid of stabling on disconnect would be crippling and would make playing a tamer more aggravation than it is worth. Of course that is usually the entire point of threads like this...
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The awnser to tamers in PvP is the BARD damm this seems so obivous to me wheres your heads! discord a pet wow that died fast provok it on the tmaer lol that was fun
    I mean jeessz

    [/ QUOTE ]I have a bard/weaver/mage, and she's often in Felucca.

    Two words:- Skill Delay.

    I can't help but wonder what your bard is supposed to be doing in the period between successfully discording a target and being <u>legitimately</u> able to make a provoke attempt?

    A few seconds in pvp is a very long time. A few seconds becomes even longer when our little bard warrior may not lose line of sight beyond a swift, short-term hide/invis to break target. Meanwhile, pets &amp; tamer are having at thee.

    What if tamer target has more than one pet? Two bakes are fast, 140+ dex fast. Perhaps tamer has as many as five hungry frenzies or hell hounds all eager &amp; clamouring for a cheeky bard snack?

    Add peace to an already tight skills template? Targetted peace deals with only one targ and an area-peace is only going to delay the inevitable bard death. Forget resist skill and eval int, too, then, no room.

    Play, Bard! Play your instruments all ya like frozen on the spot - "You see: Nico casting an ex por/paralyse" and yes, I have high eval int, so it'll stick pretty well, too - meanwhile, both me and my pets (plural) are meleeing and/or mana-dumping on you.

    Also, as a mage/tamer, I'm going to suggest that it's supremely unlikely I'm going to simply lay down and just accept some lone bard pitching up to discord my pets willy and, indeed, nilly. You may safely bet yer double-blessed boots I'm going to be setting pets &amp; dumping mana on any deathwish bards who attempt any such thing.

    On the other hand, a renegade band of marauding bards would be something, wouldn't it? *hatches evil plan* [​IMG]

    *edited for clarity
     
  43. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Can you even provoke a pet on it's owner? I didn't think you could.

    I must admit, I have yet to meet a bard I couldn't annihilate in pvp. However, I don't think that is because bards in general are no good for pvp, I think it has more to do with the fact that people don't generally create bards with pvp in mind (time, effort, and gold are not put into a good suit, or a template that would be useful in pvp, etc.). I expect that it wouldn't be too hard to put together a bard that would be very useful in pvp - one that would give tamers fits, and not be a pushover when attacked.
     
  44. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    The awnser to tamers in PvP is the BARD damm this seems so obivous to me wheres your heads! discord a pet wow that died fast provok it on the tmaer lol that was fun
    I mean jeessz

    [/ QUOTE ]


    When my tamer hunts in Felucca he is on foot and usually has two Frenzies in tow.

    When you can attack and kill me with your bard (with whatever additional skills) before I can macro:
    all kill
    *pet ball"
    *pet ball*
    *pet ball*
    all kill

    then feel free to tell me how.


    I have NEVER attacked anyone with my tamer, but will always defend myself. If you know a way to kill the 5 multi-GM frenzies (or 2 multi-GM kits), who are nipping at your ankles, then post it here. The Discord timer does not allow defence in either of these cases.

    I don't care if I die - I get my pleasure from seeing my little darlings take you down as well. [​IMG]




    .... on the other hand, I've been known to hang-out at Yew Gate and "bola / all kill" to launch my sheep at famous PvPers just for the fun of it.

    *is happy to be a bit odd* [​IMG]
     
  45. imported_GFY

    imported_GFY Guest

    Just thought of an Idea on pet damage. [​IMG]

    What if the damage a pet does was based on the amount of HP's the target has.
    ie. vs Lady Mel they do the damage they do now but vs Joe PK they do a % of damage based on how many HP's Joe PK has.

    Also allow the % damage to be based on the training of the pet for pvp. Maybe a 20% bonus for gm pets?

    Keep the specials the same. ie. deadly posion &amp; bleed for a beetle, dismount for a hiryu, etc...

    As far as being attacked by pets I usually lead them away if possible and kill the pet first. If they keep getting summoned back to the tamer I head back and mana dump the tamer and run before the pet gets to me. Just repeat until the tamer or I are dead. If I get the jump on the tamer I win about 65% of the time. If the tamer jumps me I win about 40%.
     
  46. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    On the regular shards tamers are not a problem. The only place tamers need fixing is on Seige, and there a bonded pet should count as your Seige blessed item, which would fix that problem.

    <blockquote><hr>

    If I get the jump on the tamer I win about 65% of the time. If the tamer jumps me I win about 40%.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    If that is the way it is, then it sounds to me as though tamers don't need any balancing. Of course most pvp'rs won't be content until they win against tamers 100% of the time, whether they have the initiative or not.

    Most pvp'rs have a hate on for tamers because they don't think they belong in their exclusive little club of dexxers and mages, and then of course anyone that uses protection or chugs pots doesn't belong either, because they aren't cool. It's like the high school cliques that got their kicks bullying anyone that didn't wear the right clothes, or listen to the right music, of have the right gadgets these days.

    It's flat out nonsense...
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A 2 minute reuse timer on petballs would do it. It should be character specific, not petball specific to prevent someone getting around it by just carrying 10 petballs per pet.