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Tamers on Siege, yea its a problem

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GoodGuy, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    [​IMG]

    There is 3 greater dragons on, 1 rune beatle, 1 kit, and anotther greater dragon JUST under the luna bridge hangover that you can't see

    THIS IS NOT PVP. But this is all these guys do. These are ALL blue tamers and even if you manage to kill them all there is healers a screen away along with a guardzone they just rez and ALL KILL.

    devs need to change something JUST for siege perilous because this is ruining everything we have built.
     
  2. Hum stay out of luna ???
     
  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    That actually goes for Newbs too. I just learned that lesson. I wouldn't quite call that PvP either though..
     
  4. Sure it is ... Pets Versus Players

    I stay out of Luna just because ... unless I have business to transact and then I am in and out in a minute or less. The place is a cesspit .. period. And that's on a prodo shard, can't truly say about Siege.
     
  5. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    It is worse on Siege...
     
  6. According to the majority of siege players, PVP is the MOST balanced there out of all shards.

    I'm sure you will get a lot of hate from your fellow siege players who will insist that pets are not imbalancing.
     
  7. Wood

    Wood Guest

    I remember the old saying....

    All kill, no skill.
     
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Only from the tamers... *smiles*
     
  9. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    The real problem is tamers stealthing around and abusing what should be considered a bug.. if it's not.

    If you say "all guard me" and then stealth around... whoever you double click in war mode the dragon auto attacks. You don't even need to say All Kill...

    You won't ever see the freaking tamer because it doesn't reveal him/her. And if the pets in trouble just stealth off and log out/in and abuse that feature too.


    Pets cast spells / do specials ridiculous amounts of distance.


    Its almost like it's PvP, but in a totally gimp and totally lame way... Id call it PvM because I most likely won't see the tamer at all and I will be fighting the pet all night...

    In massive group fights its not a big deal... 1 on 1, well lol.

    Prodo shard problems run much deeper... (we dont have out of wack economy's, dead player professions, so on and so forth.)

    And you really want to have this argument because you're bitter... yeah, ok.
     
  10. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Siege is the most balanced. I don't mind the power of the dragon, its the same problem all the shards have (cept you have passive detect)

    the problem is that 1 on 1 the template is ridiculous... everyone knows it. You gonna go toe to toe with a GD even on prodo...? You'll never beat the tamer 1 on 1. And even if you see him/her (maybe) and start winning the fight all it takes is smokebomb and stealth away... whoopie. And should they get a bola on you... might be over even if your 2 screens away.


    This isn't just a problem on Siege and in group fights... it doesn't really matter. Having a good mix of everything is what matters (and thats why KOC dominates =P)

    Every problem Siege has is an underlying problem... prodo shards have. It's the foundation of this game... no kidding.
     
  11. Zy'ana

    Zy'ana Seasoned Veteran
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    So thats 3 drags + 1 bug+ 1 more drag +1 kit = at minimum, not including the group under the bridge, SIX people decided to group up and do this?

    Arent there enough people to fight fire with fire? Or are you going to blame game mechanics over human mentality?

    Clearly, All kill is a skill - if it means being in control of something so powerful.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Seriously? Your solution is "stop pvping and becoming a tamer". I have no response for that.
     
  13. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    wow what noobs. There are very easy ways to kill a tamer I can kill a tamer with a greater any day. For one I can kill the greater in 10 hits with a juka bow and enemy of one. 2 I detect the stealth tamer, get dismount rdy for the silly llama put him back to regular form, mortal, all kill pixies then forget about him cuase hes gonna die, then I whip it out (the juka bow) and lay it on the drag.. It isn't hard to figure out how to kill someone with a greater just can't be a noob and cry about it on stratics.
     
  14. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well Vyal, if you're that great at defeating said beasties, go sort out Siege Luna and show us the screenie :) Otherwise, if you're talking production shards, yes they can be defeated. But this thread is about Siege... On Siege that pet is bonded vs players with kit which can't be insured. IMO that needs fixing. It doesn't make sense on any level and I'm a tamer.

    We also need to adjust taming on all shards so you can't bond with a fighting level pet unless you have tame, lore AND vet at the skill to res and care for said pet. That's real skill, not twinked and bonding should drop if you soulstone vet off too. If you want a non-vet template, that's fine, but you should have to work with disposable pets if you do.

    Wenchy
     
  15. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
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    UO is about alot of things. Only one word comes to mind in reading this thread.

    Adapt.
     
  16. mkultra

    mkultra Guest

    Faction monster ignore should include pets like it used to. Please reimplement it or change it from monsters to pets only. It's the third worst change devs ever made to uo.
     
  17. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    whats to say he didn't smoke bomb and stealth off in the middle of that fight... you know, the second you start winning against him/her?
     
  18. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    hehe who says that a bard is useless in pvp ;)
     
  19. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Is it actually viable...? Having a Bard as support Vs. a group that has PvP tamers?.. Hmm. :scholar:
     
  20. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    They are semi-viable on Siege... ever get your pet disco'd while another pet is fighting it?

    =[
     
  21. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    wow stop crying if your gettin owned by tamers go make your own tamer even then you will prolly still die and cry.

    Cry nerf cry nerf all day long.
     
  22. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    THIS IS EXACLTY WHAT EVERYBODY KEEPS TELLING ME. Which is PROOF that tamers are overpowered because we ALL know that becoming a nina smokebomb tamer is the ONLY viable method to NOT get beat by them 9/10 times, and its only because you're also blue like them so there is no fight.

    I DONT WANT TO BECOME A TAMER SIMPLY TO BEAT THEM. That doesn't fix a damn thing if i adapt to being a tamer just to compete with tamers.

    When a template comes along that can ONLY be evenly matched against that template, then that templats is OVERPOWERED, and needs to be changed
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    QFT. The whole if its unbeatable join it mentality ive seen on UO since day one has always sickened me.
     
  24. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    QQ.

    If it's unbeatable, then they've done something right. Give in, or get out.
     
  25. Splup

    Splup Guest

    What I think makes pets so freaking overpowered on Siege is bonding I quess... Cause bonded pets against players who can't insurance their gear? Umh...
     
  26. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Go do that in regular horned/barbed leather exceptional suit. No stam inc, no HPI, no mana inc, no MR/LMC, no DCI, only HCI on ur personal blessed weapon. Maybe you'r lucky to have looted some crappy jewerly to give you a bit something. So your suit is pretty low on resists, you have like 125 stamina, you don't have your insured slayer bow ofcourse, cause you have used ur only bless on ur main PvP weapon. Now I want you to go to take that greater dragon down. I really want to see that mate.
     
  27. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    lol, good idea

    think maybe i'll wake my siege tamer up and do that too, sounds like fun.

    since PvP's true name in UO is gank/grief.

    just think, if they remove PvP then they can get rid of that shard too :)

    99% of the crying nerf and whining because a person can't do better for themselves seems to stem from PvP and siege... translated ... ya'll cry a awfull lot for you doing something obviously you are in-capable of doing as good as the other 'guy'. (not talking to the person i quoted)
     
  28. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    that is because some people think everything should be easy and for some reason think they have to be just like the other person ???? but they are in-capable of figureing out there own methods of doing things as efficiant as the other person.
     
  29. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    That not fair to ask him to remove his Trammy Superstar suit. How will be be able to to get in vamp form with NO SKILL? :pancakes:
     
  30. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Did an anti-PvP Trammy really just say that?

    LOL

    Hows your foot taste?
     
  31. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    How about this one.. is this enough tamers??

    [​IMG]
     
  32. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    EXACTLY, great picture to show WHY this is so impossible. If you try to attack a single one of thsoe tamers, you hit ANY of them and they smoke bomb and you're left standing there with 3 other dragons about to attack you.

    any other siege players got LOADS of tamers pictures?
     
  33. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    -There are a million ways they could fix this: If a pet takes up 4+ spaces, it cannot be bonded, only pack instinct can.

    -Make tribal spears 3 hit kill all pets again.

    -Allow gating of pets again
     
  34. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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  35. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Advanced PVM!!!!

    And the loot sucks.
     
  36. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Oh my god... you people just don't get it. Why is it that there is always a crowd of people who a) don’t even know what we are dealing with and b) assume that its impossible for the game designers to make a really bad mistake?

    This isn’t about being easy or whatever its about there being a tactic that is pretty much impossible to deal with outside of becoming that class, or running a template (and then running in groups of that template) SPECIFICALLY to combat that one. It's just stupid, and a glaring example of something that wasn't designed for OUR shard, and doesn't work on OUR shard.

    Could a person "adapt" to this kind of thing? Yes. BUT the person adapting who isn’t becoming a tamer has functionally neutered themselves in all other pvp situations, and the end result is you probably don't even kill any of the tamers you crippled your template to combat.

    And why is it that a clearly abused and over powered method should just leave the rest of the world forced to ruin their templates and play characters they don’t enjoy (bard) to "adapt" to their absurd brokenness? It makes no sense to me.

    I think a lot of people just don’t understand how dangerous a greater dragon is (let alone 5 of them in tandem) on siege. There is only one solution, and it basically turns pvp into pvm, and that is have a group running allllll the time, with at least one bard, probably more like 3, and every one else running with blessed dragon slayers. Either that, or you just have to stop pvping when the dragon patrol shows up.

    I'll say it again, even though its been said a million times. Its not an issues of people sucking and needing to adapt. Its an issues of production shard leak over that was in no way balanced to be even remotely fair on siege.
     
  37. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    Exactly Uvtha, Greater Dragons are FINE for production shards, but the fact the Devs never considered Siege Perilous and how absurd tamers already were on siege.

    Siege Perilous pvpers DO NOT NEED TO BE FIGHTING THE SAME GREATER DRAGONS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

    Its not REMOTELY in the mindest of siege perilous to allow naked low skill tamers with a heavy cross bow the ability to kill fully trained fully equiped PVP'ers on a regular basis. There is NO risk and so much reward, but for the players who have to deal with it there is almost NO reward but and TONS of risk in fighting a tamer

    If i COULD avoid fighitng tamers i would, but its nearly impossible when there is no less than 15 blue tamers on siege who follow around any fight they see happening and callin every tamer they can to ruin these fights.

    I REALLY wish they would just let monster ignore work again, back before they broke it when you had monster ignore on and a tamer said ALL KILL and targetted you the pet simply would not react, and it was the ONLY viable way of killing some tamers even before greater dragons.

    SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. Look at how big groups of tamers have ruined PVP on siege perilous, and if something isn't done more and more pvpers will continue to jump ship of normal templates and go to gimp PVP tamer templates because they are tired of losing their good loot fighting tamers with crappy loot.
     
  38. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Un nerf Trible spears.
     
  39. Radun

    Radun Guest

    Not a problem for a sampire... seen it.
    I'm not trying to imply that they aren't overpowered... just saying 'seen it'.
     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Mmm I could see a well equipped sampire doing it toe to toe, unintuerupped. Sadly (well not that sad) not a luxury we have on siege.
     
  41. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    Wouldn't an damage cap (similar to armor ignore) be effective and perhaps limit the stackable attacks one see's from pets while used vs another player??
     
  42. JasmineSP

    JasmineSP Journeyman
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    Any damage cap would need to take into account the armor limitations here on SP. There aren't a lot of 70's suits running around here. It's a problem we've had with weapons in general here, too much damage to take in a 40-50 unbalanced resist suit. It's no surprise that it's extended to pets too.

    The trick is to make pets deliver less damage to players only. I'm a tamer treasure hunter and I don't run around killing people. With my template crammed with carto and lockpicking, my pet is my only defense and this is Siege. Damage done by pets to monsters should stay unchanged.

    I've said for a long time that a bonded pet should count as my personal blessed item. Running around (on Siege) with a blessed item and 2 bonded pets vs a guy with just 1 blessed item never did seem right to me. 1 PBD for 1 bonded pet.... seems fair.
     
  43. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I for one say just delete all greater dragons on siege. Yes, I do have one.
     
  44. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I say just fix 2 things and we're good to go...


    the casting on people when they are 2-3 screens away

    and

    the bug with getting dragons to attack other players while the tamer is hidden
     
  45. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    just a question... if you had 4-5 dexers on you... how would you fair on Seige?... maybe the 5v1 is something that needs looked into.. but then again.. someone who loves playing the "gank" will scream bloody murder that their playstyle is just as valid as everyone elses.
     
  46. Shakaja

    Shakaja Guest

    the funny part about this is who is complaining.

    for all non siegers:
    hes in the alliance that constantly fields about 2x as many people as everyone else, and without 2+ tamers and double numbers, they wont even leave their houses. also it might appear quite funny that its not very rare that they field 4-6 tamers xD
     
  47. Goron

    Goron Guest

    trolling?
    I'll play:
    *cough* last night *cough*

    A pity I couldn't get a good screen shot of both your dead characters (one being a tamer) side by side like Hugi/Bo... It sure was cute.

    Next time, try waiting until you have three times as many of us online before you come out of the house you all were hiding in. Just outnumbering us by one or two doesn't seem to do it for you.
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    1) Dexers can miss. Dragon fireballs (which will do more damage every time) do not (unless you are evading I guess).
    2) Dexers cannot hit you when you are off screen (pet problem in general).
    3) If you know what you are doing, 1 v 3 or even 1 v 4 are is potentially a situation that can be handled. Ive seen one good mage kill 3 dexers before. If you have 2 dragons (let alone 3-5) on you... well usually you are dead within 3 seconds. You have to run away to live.
    4) If it were 4-5 dexers I could call my friends, and the odds would be even. If it were 4-5 tamers we would be at the same 1v1 disadvantage. Basically 4-5 dragons end any pvp not related to dragons right away.

    Ganks are ganks, and will always exist, because its just common sense that there is strength in numbers. But its the same problem, and in fact a worse problem. You can get away from 1 dragon pretty much every time, but 2? 3? 4? your odds of even just ESCAPING become very precarious, and if you get dismounted with 3 dragons on you. You might as well just stand still, cause you are 99% dead.
     
  49. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    dragon vs player is a problem everywhere and is always the same history....

    SOLUTIONS:
    1 - devs must cap pet vs player damage to 35 (like armor ignore)
    2 - devs must transfrorm tamers into a pvm template (like bard). If you try to attack a player with a pet, the pet do nothing.
    3 - remove pvp and make a new shard for pvp only without pets and taming :lick:

    I like solution number 1 because with solution number 2 a tamer cant defend himself if attacked.

    For who take the game too seriously: solution 3 is a joke ;)
     
  50. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    Here is your typical naked dismount tamer on siege. He sits inside the guardzone, and near the healers, completely naked with JUST bolts on him and HCI jewels plus a 20HCI siege blessed weapon. THIS IS NOT PVP. he just waits till actual pvpers are fighting and jumps in, or catches you off guard just trying to leave luna from the moongate.
    [​IMG]