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Taming and Scriptors (What do you do?)

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Darien, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Darien

    Darien Guest

    Well to make a long drawn out story somewhat short.

    I have a few days off for the holidays and thought it would be nice to just burn my extra time working on taming and trying to get closer to the ever going battle of trying to achieve 120.

    So I got to the jhelom bull's pen to tame and what do I find. Yep you guessed it scriptors. Now it does not take a rocket scientist to realize they are scripting. Especially when they run the same EXACT Pattern casting the same spells and stopping in the same spots for hours straight. Now I know there is Scripting. I have seem the sights and have had friend use it before.

    My question is what do you do about this? Obvisouly I can not and will not report ever person that does this which looks like there is alot. Plus the wait time for a GM is way to long for me to do it. I ended up taming all the bulls and walking away with them tamed while the scriptors either just ran thier patterns or casting flame strike repeatedly on my tamed bulls.

    So what is a person to do?
     
  2. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    This is what you absolutely shouldn't do...

    Do not tame a nasty critter and leave it in the pen to go wild.
    Also do not release it in the pen.

    I would never suggest doing any of these actions!
     
  3. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    I like working up my lower end pets in the Jhelom pens. And I just flat out kill the bulls.

    So I pretty much will sit there and kill everything for a long while and they get no gains. I haven't figured out how to get a water ele up there yet though. Maybe a net and drag it to shore and accidently die in front of them.
     
  4. Zodiac19

    Zodiac19 Guest

    You could also NOT tame and move said bulls to somewhere else on the subserver so they do not respawn in the pen.
     
  5. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    ooo. I like that one. I'll have to do that next time I see a scripter out there. I'll take the bulls to the arena or someplace and work vet! Actually, that would work very well for me.
     
  6. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I heard that bots can sometimes walk through a player's gate having tamed so many bulls that they start to stagger uncontrollably...

    Sometimes you just have to pop to the bank to drop off those hides from skinning cows, so why not save that little bot from having to find his own way home. Don't leave bots out in the cold this Christmas, take them to a nice warm tavern where they can swap tales of bull taming and warm their little toes by the open fire. Let them get the rest and refreshment every bot deserves after working so hard this Christmas ;)

    Wenchy
     
  7. Sephy

    Sephy Guest

    I say... LEAVE THEM ALONE....


    The thing is, taming takes so freaking long to raise, most people never want to make one, even with advance char they take forever.. I dont see the problem with people scripting, I myself worked taming from 0-110 back in the day manually, took a long long time but I did it... But after an unfortunate turn, I was banned and had to start again... Should I have to work taming and waste all my life again just to play the template I wanted? NO

    if you guys actually wana sit there for months and maybe years of your life, hours a day walking around taming things then releasing things, you go ahead...

    People dont have the time to do all that, hence scripts, they can still play this game and have fun, they just get help working the skills needed for them to enjoy the game... I dont see the point in wasting your life playing a game you dont enjoy playing ( ie working lame skills that you have already worked like before many times )


    Call it what you want, but this game is dead now and the fact people are playing is amazing in itself so leave the guys alone if they wana get help working there skills without wasting there life sitting there bored out of there mind
     
  8. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    *coughs*

    3 words. Advanced character token.

    I had to close an account at short notice and needed to bring my pets over to another account. For a few checks of gold I had myself a starter tamer which, had I chosen could easily be twinked to 120. I chose to train till she had proper control of everything, but that sorted me out very swiftly. I suggest that option for anyone who CBA training.

    If a player doesn't want to train legally, they can buy a trained account, an advanced char + jewels or just use an easy to train template. There is no justification for cheating as a tamer. If player gets inconvenienced or banned by a GM for cheating, they have nobody else to blame but themselves. 120 taming isn't a right, it's something you put the time into training. If that's too hard for you, look at another skill....

    Not only are the suggestions above very minor and barely disrupting a cheat (I'm sure a ban wouldn't be well received!), you need to remember that some players like myself quit because we're tired of finding cheats everywhere. Your shard will only get quieter as everyone allows the cheats to go on cheating and honest players get disenchanted with UO's GMs. Maybe think about that before you support cheating tamers :)

    Wenchy
     
  9. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    Sephy, if you find it too hard to play by the rules, then this game probably isn't for you. Find something easier, where you don't have to put in hard work to gain a worthwhile skill. I made a tamer, no advanced char, and from the 50 taming she started with, she now has 94 real skill and steadily rising. It's not nearly as hard and boring as you like to make out - with jewels you can slide up or back down, vary what you tame and even go hunting with pets from a pretty early stage.

    Running an unattended bot is not only lazy, it interferes with other players. About to have second attempt at bull, unattended runs up, stands ON TOP OF ME and gets in there before my human reflexes can. Tamed a bull, little bot follows me round like an over friendly puppy, shouting "null release" and trying to flamestrike my tame. Tell me how this isn't a PITA that interferes with my play?

    If you choose to be part of the 'I want it and I want it NOW and I'm not planning to work for it' brigade, that's fine. UO is not the game for you. Go play WOW or something.
     
  10. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    I've heard way to many complaints about someone who just needs to tame bulls for a little bit and that there is some creep macroing. It interfears with everyone else who would like to use the pens. And I will use them for pet training even if there is someone in there. If it's an actual player, they have no issues with my little one slots killing the bulls for them after they release them.

    Oh and my SIX tamers I have tell me that raising taming isn't that hard. And I never spend more than half an hour taming unless I'm so close to some goal I can taste it.
     
  11. Darien

    Darien Guest

    I run into scriptors everyday. I spend alot of spare time at the bull pens in the off chance that one of my tames might get me a gain.

    Is it boring most definatley.
    Have I nodded off before doing this. Sadly Yes.

    But the fact remains that I am doing the work and I am spending what spare time I have to do this. Scriptors are not spending any time or effort on thier gains. They click a button and walk away. You cannot tell me that people need help and expect me to beleieve that instead of working on it they can take the easy way out and use a program. If that is the case I should just start hacking computer systems to make my life easier that way i will not have to work.

    It all comes down to the type of people that use these scripts. They are lazy and dishonest.

    I am tanking the stance of gating scriptors to various dungeons where I know there is something waiting for them. I figure insurance cost and the off case they lose something of value might make them think. I have noticed the regular scriptors have now started riding Ethy's.
     
  12. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    I don't want to spend all those years in medical school! I want my degree next week so I can perform brain surgery on you!
     
  13. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    LMAO!!

    *claps*
     
  14. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    LOL!

    That was great!
     
  15. If you don't enjoy the game I say "Get Out". There are honest people that do enjoy the game just the way it is.

    I'll let you borrow my drill if you let me watch the surgery.
    On second thought borrow the belt sander. It's faster. That way you can make the hole with the sander and don't need to shave the head first.

    Can you tell I like you Doc.

    I'll even print the diploma and sign it myself. Nothing like a good Dr.
    What Med school do you want on it?
     
  16. Trinsie

    Trinsie Guest

    While I am on your guys side and am against the scriptors. I have to say you sure are pumping up that doctor example. Anyone that has ever debated knows it was a strawman argument and a really bad example of one.

    Sorry just bothers me a bit about the example.
     
  17. Darien

    Darien Guest

    Although the Doctor example on the whole might be a tad on the over stated side. But most examples to make a point are.

    The basic primciple are still there. Someone is too lazy to do what it takes to achieve the end goal. So they take the easy route and it effects others.

    The debate I have heard of lately is why not let scriptors do thier thing. It does not effect the overall game mechanics. I heavly disagree on this.

    Everytime someone scripts and creates the end goal. In ths case a Tamer.
    This means there is one more tamer that is running the spawns for loot and taming the high end monsters. This creates a loss in the market because there is now one more provider and competitor. Thus driving the prices down for certain things or certain services. The amount at first might be minimal but everytime this happenes it increases the changes in ecomonics little by little.

    Now I do not want to get into a whole debate on economics or the impact of changing factors within a economic system. I am just a firm advocate that scripting does quiet litterly ruin other's game experiances and the game in general..
     
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I can see no problem with gating a nice freshly tamed rabbit or goat to town from any location, anyone who happens to also walk through your gate is not your responsibility.
     
  19. Wow so many self rightous people here lol. Oh I have stopped down at jhelom bull pen and seen a few scriptors... so you play lets kill the bulls and move on to another spot. The bulls spawn in many places so its not truelly an inconvenience. To be perfectly honest I think they made the bullpen for scriptors. Sorry its too dam convenient, a small very safe enclosed area with quick respawns... same as the savage area in Illsh... its just too perfect for scriptors to not be made for them. I doubt these days UO is going to close accounts when the game is on a downward swing.

    If you feel inconvenienced, then move on.. its not like your walking all the way there lol, a click of a rune stone and your in another part of the world. What do you do if you want to work your Honor and the succubus spot in ilsh is in use... ya move on to somewhere else. What do you do if you want to tame a cu sidhe and there doin the champ spawn... you go somewhere else to play. This a game. If you feel that your being too inconvenienced, then move on. Me, I just go and find somewhere else to play or work my crafting to fill my vendors. Like I said, its a game...you shouldn't let it stress you out.
     
  20. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, players still get banned and warned if you get a GM to turn up. That's what makes it fun ;) I think most scripters would rather be gated to a bank than reported and banned. Unfortunately for them, it doesn't inconvenience me in the least to report them or open a moongate. 1 keypress isn't a physical challenge. It doesn't stress me at all. But we appreciate your concern for our mental wellbeing.

    Now, if you don't mind scripters, you walk past them. We're just as entitled to report rule breakers or gate ourselves to the bank if we wish. No need to call anyone self-righteous. But why would you care for a cheat enough to suggest players leave them alone? If you know cheats yourself, maybe you'd have less to worry about if you simply told them to stop cheating instead. Then there's nothing for any of us to be worried about....

    Wenchy
     
  21. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Here is part one of what I chose to do. I took a screen capture. I had the same thing happening to me recently, and I don' have magery to gate the person(s) out that appear to not be at the keyboard.

    It's so obvious when these people do it. In fact, three days later now and someone is doing it RIGHT now on GL.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cXyqtl0NU&feature=channel_page

    DCM
     
  22. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    A good suggestion is...

    Gate them out, follow there line work out the route and open a gate in there path (death or not up to you if you go death announce first)

    My friend did it to a guy and sent him to luna, he jus ran around there for a little bit then just stopped and stood there!
     
  23. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Hmmmm, if you are on GL would you come to the farms and put up a gate to Destard for me? Inside preferably. I am kind of bored of this fellow person that keeps running around in a square...well, almost perfect square, but the corners are incredibly the same.

    DCM
     
  24. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    An amusing tale:

    When checking out the slime locations in the Yomotsu mines, I had noticed an obviously unattended pet-trainer with a shadow elemental and a dread war horse. Since this was an obvious SEP (someone else's problem), I ignored him and moved on to the slime location.

    About two seconds later, I realized I forgot something (must have been my hat. I'm always misplacing it) and ran back to the entrance, completely unaware *innocence* that I dragged several warriors and priests back with me to the entrance.

    After spending nearly an hour running back and forth to dye my collection of bows (nice to have color coded bows for easy slayer-selection), his ghost and the ghost of his dread mare were still waiting in the entrance.

    To those reading this, leading monsters is wrong. It will get you sent straight to hell. The above story was a description of what I like to call an unfortunate event based on lack of knowledge about monster AI.
     
  25. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Im sure when i get on i can sort something out...btw did you not get from my name not only am i on GL im also in DC* (your all going to be hunting me this weekend!!!)
     
  26. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Yes...appreciate both your posts....Here I thought I was going to thank you for my gate to the inside of Despise...twas unfortunate that a fellow member C********* went right in and had problems with the lizard men.

    Thank you whomever!

    DCM
     
  27. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Did you gate a Fellow DC* Member in to despise???

    Out of interest what is your char name in DC*?
     
  28. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Not I, but somebody reading here I guess. I'll PM u.

    DCM
     
  29. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    If you would please it would also be nice to know the name of who was gated and who did the gating
     
  30. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Thought it was you that gave me the escort...I did thank the person though :) I do have a movie of this latest person wearing their tag too. I will add it later.
     
  31. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    No need to post a video if you could just PM me the names (still would like to know your name as well :)) then i can have a chat with said party
     
  32. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Oh, but it is fun to see how people are able to run these exactly perfect squares over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, for three to four hours. This person has a small twist whereby on the first 'leg' they do this little zig-zag as if they cannot decide if they want to go to the waypoint or not. Well, it may look more normal if I wouldn't have tamed the three bulls present that this person learned to ignore.

    For a moment, after three hours of watching this, and going thru the gate to farm leather in Despise I was surprised this person chose to follow me, but then they fell off their horse.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cXyqtl0NU&feature=channel_page

    D
     
  33. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I confused a bot the other day by herding a bull over the teleporter that's conveniently outside the bull pens in Jhelom. If you time it right, apparently the bot will pathfind over the telporter at the right speed to pop through. Honestly, I didn't think what I had done till he vanished and I got the giggles hehehe.

    I do feel bad though. Because the cat he mind blasted after he teleported out had done nothing, and obviously was a very unlucky target of his bot. *sniffs*

    I particularly enjoyed removing all but 1 bull when there were 2 bots in the pen together. Damn funny when they start humping the same bull. Silent bot wars :D I've never seen any player be so polite when someone jumps a tame! I left them like that the other night after reporting them to the GMs.

    What can I say, bots can be very good entertainment when you're taming bulls to train a few characters and need to break up the boredom. Especially the ones who can get back into the bull pen if you herd their bull outside and let you play with them a few times before paging. I like to try out how smart their bots are and see if I can break their system. It's surprising how easy it is to set a bot to malfunction, and they can be very funny when they get out of synch:
    Bot: "all follow me" spam...
    Wenchy: "honey, you need to TAME the bull first!"
    Bot: "kal vas flam"
    Wenchy: "I said tame, not flame!"*sigh* "this could take some time...."

    Sadly for the bots I have 3 tamers I'm working on finishing at the same time, so they won't get peace this week.

    One bot who runs around in a perfect pattern is looking like he needs to be gated to an inn to recover from his confusion. He looks like a rabbit with miximitosis, and as I can't put him out of his misery any other way, I may as well provide him with a comfy bed and room service. If he comes back, I'll call the medics... I'm sure a GM is skilled in curing the confused mind of a bot...

    Wenchy
     
  34. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Ok so now i know who was taming...what char were you on???
     
  35. DCMember

    DCMember Guest

    Don't worry about that...it's more important you have a talking with the person that shouldn't have been walking in the squares.

    The video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cXyqtl0NU&feature=channel_page shows me, but the next video will show what this latest person did.

    D
     
  36. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I cant watch the videos im at work and have no flash player...

    The whos char you are wasnt for any reason about this, just to satisfy my personal curiosity lol

    You in for the guild event tomorrow night?
     
  37. Goodoljoe

    Goodoljoe Guest

    So if you open a moongate on their scripted paths and they happen to accept to go through with their automated - OK - release kill and they end in a room full of ancient liches,is that legal?

    I know luring stuff to get them killed is not,no idea on gate thing..
     
  38. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Technically no...

    If you open a gate and say im going to luna and it goes to the Liches that is Illegal

    If you open a gate and say, im going to lichs and they "choose" to go through then thats fine likewise i believe if you say nothing.

    The idea whether it is legal or not is simply whether the "person" (there or not) has been "death gated".
     
  39. So, if I were working on my taming by taming, say...Rune Beetles, and then gated to the pens, and released one so I could work on taming bulls, would that be acceptable :) ?
     
  40. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    No thats illegal...not that it would do any good released pets dont aggro in tram unless aggrod on
     
  41. Xclio

    Xclio Guest

    If you can get someone to another location that is scripting tha tjust proves that their script isn't very good same goes for trying to aggro something on them. A person that has a good script will have their script designed to handle such actions :)
     

  42. So why is it illegal then?
     
  43. Darien

    Darien Guest

    It is not illegal to open a gate. It is however illegal to mislead someone and say it goes one place and they find themselves someplace else.

    Opening a gate and saying nothing and watching someone run in without you is not illegal. It is call stupidity on thier behalf.
    .
     
  44. rwek

    rwek Guest

    Did someone compare UO to brain surgery?



    Now thats the part I'll be laughing bout.



    Ban all the scripters and then we can have a server with 100 people on it, yay!
     
  45. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    lol! Good point.
     
  46. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    What you describe is considered griefing and an exploitation of the intended mechanics of the game.

    See the more complete answer here in the official UO Knowledgebase: http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1417.
     
  47. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    This has been hashed through many many times on this forum and unfortunately we don't have anyone from EA to provide an official ruling on whether or not doing this is illegal. However, I would advise anyone who thinks this is a wonderful tactic for getting rid of scriptors to review the harrassment policy and then review their motives for casting gates that they do not themselves end up using. If you have any doubts at all about whether what you are doing is considered griefing, then perhaps it isn't worth doing it if you want to continue to enjoy playing UO. Page on the person you suspect is scripting and leave it at that.

    Here is a link to a Q&A on the official UO site, in the Knowledgebase, that provides more information about what is considered "physical harrassment": http://eaclassics.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/eaclassics.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=59.

    I believe two key sentences here are: "...we do want to make it clear that it is not okay to ruin the fun of UO for other players, specifically when that is the intent behind your actions." And: "If your sole purpose and intent in any action is to continually upset, aggravate, or otherwise annoy another player, you may be a 'grief player.' Using game mechanics to cause grief to others can also be seen as exploitation, and will be treated accordingly by game staff. "

    I know some will argue that a "bot" or a script is not a "player" and therefore no griefing has occurred. None of us, however, is in the position to truly make the determination that there is no player. Therefore, I submit that anyone who presumes to step into the role of a GM and conclude that "bot = no player and therefore griefing is okay" may well be putting their own account in jeopardy.
     
  48. Skrylox

    Skrylox Visitor
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    Does the illegal vs illegal gating of a scripter really matter in the end? By the time their journal gets filled up with the "you can not perform this action while dead" or whatever the exact wording is, they will not know who did it anyway. If I find you on GL I will find any numbers of ways to disrupt a scripter. Personally I make about 200k a day in my spare time killing scripting miners in fel (mind you it is the same 5 usually). A bot can not report an incognito mage without a guild tag. Gate or no gate does not matter when the offender has to come back 20 times to try to start taming only to be dead 5 minutes later and have a long long deep run through hyolith porters

    D'zuvir GL
     
  49. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I don't care a fig for the bot or their player, but doing something they can page on makes me no better than them. I'll be danged if I'm risking so much as a mark on my account for a cheat. They're anoying, but the risks don't justify doing something silly. And it's the equivalent of cracking a peanut with a sledgehammer. You don't need to kill a bot to stop it.

    Remember a ban is the best way to stop a cheat. If that fails I'll either put the bulls in the adjacent pen or take one over the teleporter so the tamer pops through. Surprisingly, quite a few bots will just stand there and time out.

    Another thing, I've seen some players who clearly were at the keyboard but just ran a script while they sat there. Not every bot is 100% unattended, so treat them all like someone is watching if you can.

    If you really want to gate though, just gate inside an inn bedroom. The bot will stop gaining and you shouldn't find a GM showing up to tell you off. I don't think any GM would come out if they were called beacause "someone gated me to the inn" ;)

    Wenchy
     
  50. Darien

    Darien Guest

    It is fact that scripting is illegal and does ruin the gamplay for those that come in contact with it.
    This and the fact that, well lets face it, getting in game support is as easy a getting a painless tooth extraction. Sure they numb you up but as time goes on the pain always comes around. Yea the eventually send you a note or show up. But my god the wait is painful.

    Opening a gate and watching some scriptor run in is not ruining the game for them. Because clearly they are not playing the game for anyone to ruin it for them.

    It is black and white in my mind. There are those who are fair and honest that work for what they achieve. Then there is those who look for the easy way out and take advantage of others and care not what it does to everyone else.

    Wenchkin is right that a mark on your account is not worth it for a botter / scriptor. The scriptor would have to report you and I do believe it requires the gm's to sift throught the parties involved journals for evidence of such a harrassment. I could be wrong on that though. But it would be curious what they would see on the scriptors journal or how they would prove that someone casting a gate half to full screen away was trying to do it purposly so the guy would run in from that far away. Seem like there is alot to prove.