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Taming Improvements: what a tamer will really need as upgrade.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Pinco, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Actually there are enough pet, maybe balancing the old ones should improve a bit the fun, but the real need for the future is this:

    Indipendet mode for the pet:
    - If actived the pet works as it is now.
    - If turned of we have this:

    * The pet can't cast or neither use any special abilities by default, just bite.
    * The tamer will be able to command to use spells or special abilities:
    • all Breath: command to launch a breath attack (with cooldown like 1 min)
    • all cast <spell>: command to cast a spell on a specific target for example: all cast Greater Heal -> target yourself. the pet will heal you (basic spells cooldown based on pet casting and recovery)
    • all <special move>: command to use a special move on the current enemy. For example: all bleed attack. will use the bleed attack on the current enemy.
    Pet's equipment: allow all pets to wear armor like dragon barding deeds. But all the barding deed should be with properties (by making them with runic hammer or by using imbuing) and still not repairabled. There should be only 1 mod if you use imbuing or 2 mod if made with a valorite hammer.
    Properties allowed:
    -Damage Increase 50%
    -Hit Chance Inrease 15%
    -Defense Chance Incerase: 15%
    -Faster Casting 2
    -Faster Cast Recovery 6
    -Lower Weight 50% (for pack animals)
    -Hit Point Regeneration 2
    -Mana Regeneration 2
    -<Resistances> 15% (physical, fire, cold, poison or energy. But only 1)
    -<Skill Bonus> 10 (only 1 allowed)
    -<Stat Bonus> 10 (only 1 allowed)
     
  2. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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    As much as i hate all the wasted mana for low level spells on my pets (pvm) i hope this idea will make it NEVER EVER into the game. The reason is pvp. It will give the tamers an even more advantage against real player. I don't want some scripted pets running around doing just the right stuff at the right moment in combination with the tamer.

    Yes i have several tamers. Yes, i use the tamer on Siege Perilous in pvp, but only if iam forced to. Tho my pvp consists of sending the pets after the murderer who wants my shinies and runing away in stealth mode. Iam not using him offensivly.
     
  3. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    for pvp they have to put the indipendent mode on automatically and its done :p
     
  4. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Just need the Gaman Pack with the predator hellcat damage. Sad a big old gaman does the damage of a lizard chicken and hang out in herd but don't fit the profile.
     
  5. So going by your list here,you would want to be able to add 50% DI to a GD or a pack of frenzied on top of the massive damage they already can do? Hmmm haha no.
     
  6. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    50 is an idea, but 25 could be nice too... overhall it will not make a big difference... howerver actually with provocation you could have 40%...
    and remember: actually we have mages who can do 600+ damage per hit, a gd has not a damage comparable to any other classes and I think 10 extra damage is not too much...
     
  7. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Spellweaving WoD, but only when a creature is low on HP otherwise it does like 10 rolleyes:. GD can also have 999hp, give my mage 999hp and you can take away WoD lol.

    Tamers/pets are fine as is, I use one so don't jump on me saying I don't know. Maybe bump up some older lame pets, Reptalon comes to mind first, Firesteed maybe.
     
  8. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    hahaha
    CURSE EXP WEAKEN NB SPELL PLAGUE FIREBREATH HARM NB
     
  9. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I actually like the idea of being able to command pets to do something at a specific time, and I would think some of the pvp purists would like it to, because it would make pvp'ing with a pet involve more skill. However, until the scripting monster is slain in pvp, I wouldn't support this. There are enough problems with scripts in pvp without adding this to the mix.

    Once pvp has been cleaned up and there aren't anymore 733t peeveepee'rs running around with scripted healing, trapped boxes, bola defence, weapon and spell combos, etc. etc., then maybe this would be an interesting idea. As for the rest of it, such as boosting pet damage, I think probably not, although I do think mobs across the board should get a movement rate increase which would affect pets as well.
     
  10. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    rofl


    THIS IS HILARIOUS



    no offense to the OP, but this would make some insane templates in pvp. Can you imagine spell plagueing and nuking someone with firebreaths, and bleed attacks, ---just by hitting a single button, all the while you are ALSO casting.
     
  11. I want a pet using that will cast corpse skin for me. And make cappuccino for breakfast. :)
     
  12. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Nah, I make way better cappuccino than a pet would ever make, the a.i. sucks, and they're soooo slooowww... Of course you can be visiting your neighbour a block away, and they'll still make cappuccino, so that's a plus... :stretcher:
     
  13. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Remember the issues that can be caused be "queueing" a dread mares fire breath? Let alone being able to make a macro for

    Cast Spell - Spell plague
    Dismount
    Cast Firebreath (dreadmare)


    then

    nether bolt
    magic arrow

    LOL
     
  14. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    as I said for pvp shoud be disabled the chance to command directly the pet so it stay as is...
    This idea is for pvm only. I didnt though about balancement, and cannot be tough without some testing so the property list could be changed.
    The very nice thing would be to see pet fizzle when got an hit and with cast/recovery needle (same as players)
     
  15. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Just having the ability to enable/disable specials would be good.

    Thinking of Hell hound's Fire Breath.
     
  16. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Actually, I would like to see it in pvp, but there would need to be some balancing to make sure that it isn't op (cool downs for one thing, and perhaps a damage cap for pvp). I just think it would bring more of an element of skill to using pets in pvp. Not that using a pet in pvp doesn't take skill already (waits for the peeveepee trolls to weigh in), but this would add even more to it.
     
  17. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yes but tamers a) have a meat wall, and b) can add to the damage thier pet does with spells or weapons.

    I would be ok with lower level stuff maybe getting a boost, but the high level stuff is beyond good as it is.
     
  18. olduofan

    olduofan Guest


    I would like a pet that can kill everything and everyone all at once with out being healed ohhh and it also loots all and steals artys as well and stables its self after its done hunting all day will im at work and sleeping and repeats every morning with out me having to even log in. also one that can own doom all day alone. hmmmm what else ohhh and it would look like a 4 story neon chicken and only I get 1 not YOU :lol::gee::lol:
     
  19. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I can see both the good and the bad of this. If more power is given, there would have to be some type of increased weakness. What i would like to see is an actually NEED for vet again in the game. You never see a pvp tamer with vet, and many pvm tamers have abandoned it as well.

    Maybe to balance this a bit something like the bard changes could be implemented, like you would need 120 Real skill to fully utilize everything. As it is, its way to easy to get a tamer to 75 (advanced char token is higher than that now even) and max out the rest with items.
     
  20. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    OH YEA

    toggling my instant firebreath macro for when i dismount a dreadmare makes me that much more skillful lol
     
  21. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Allow me to introduce you to my tamer that I pvp with all the time, who happens to have 90 vet... And oh ya, he's in factions, he's a knight of justice and has had as many as 800 kill points that he earned the hard way... ;)

    Kinda like alternating between magic arrow and weaken makes you more skillful, or spamming lightning strike makes you more skillful, or spell plague followed by hailstorm makes you more skillful? In other words, bite me...

    In case you hadn't noticed, this game is all about key presses and mouse clicks, and setting those up in the most effective way possible. Unless of course you've found some way to enter into the game and actually walk around casting spells and swinging your sword with great dexterity. In that case, there's nothing I can say, and I bow to your 733t sKilLz. :gee:
     
  22. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Toggle firebreath macro would be as simple as the all kill macro, just that much better, in someways, it would make you less skillful than hitting all kill.

    The reason taming in pvp is considered skilless is because your pet does most/all dmg for you, and you complement the pet more than it compliments you, granted these proposed changes would flip that around a little, but not enough to make it skillful.

    PS. I like how you mention ma/nb--look at my awesome sig
    PSS. i have 700millionsomething faction points without farming, they mean absolutely nothing.
     
  23. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    This is just too over powering. I'd be for letting tamers have more control slots at higher skill (<250 points = 5, 250-300 = 6, 300-320 = 7, 320-359=8, 360 = 10 ).

    Any changes should reflect those that put the actual time and energy into being real tamers (ie all three skills.)

    I wouldn't mind if they added in several creatures that DID have extra commands now and then. However, the commands shouldn't be for all creatures, possibly not even for each of the same creature. Perhaps some based on the INT of the creature itself. This would let tamers start to specialize if they wished.

    Otherwise, tamers have access to most creatures to do their bidding, I cannot say I'm exactly quivering in anticipation for them to get more selective powers.
     
  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I get this feeling you define "skill" as any keys you happen to press, and "less skill" as the keys someone else happens to press, and "no skill at all" as the keys a tamer happens to press. Guess what? They're all key presses and mouse clicks, they all require being able to think clearly and act quickly under pressure, and one takes about as much "skill" as the rest do.

    The day you start picking off enemy targets at 2000m with your M82, or hand making quality watches, or playing point guard for a US college basketball team, then maybe you can start telling me how skilled you are, and how unskilled I am. Until that day arrives, the only way your key presses are more skillful than mine, are if you win the battle.

    My point wasn't to boast about how many meaningless kill points I have, it was merely to point out that I do indeed pvp with a tamer with the full tamer skills set. A tamer that is a tamer first.

    And if you think playing a tamer takes no skill, go make yourself a tamer, shouldn't take you more than a day or two, because it takes no skill right? Then slap on a suit, any suit will do, because your going to be playing a tamer, and that takes no skill or preparation, so anything you can pull together in five minutes should do.

    Then go get yourself a greater dragon or a dread mare, or any other pet or pet combination, it won't matter because being a tamer takes no skill, then meet me at Yew gate on Catskills. I'll be looking forward to the encounter. Playing a tamer takes no skill, so we should both end up with a 500 record after a few battles right? ;)
     
  25. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Yeah... show me a GD that has all 70 resists and can move at mounted speed AND has 999 hps.

    Show me a greater dragon that has 999 hp unblessed with "decent" accompanied resists.

    rolleyes:

    You can easily do over 200 damage do a GD with a mage, and GD's do not even begin to compare to the damage out put of other builds in PvM, which I may note seems to be the focus of this discussion, NOT PvP.

    In PvP if you can't out run a GD even on foot, I don't know what to tell you.
     
  26. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Sorry but this is a horrible idea. Imagine someone riding a nightmare and controlling a greater dragon. You think there is yelling and screaming now, you ain't seen nothin' compared to what there would be if that change went through. What I would suggest is taking slots away.

    Everyone can control three slots, if you have 200 points in taming skills (real skill) you can control four slots, and if you have 300 points in taming skills (real skill) you can control five slots. This would be a taming nerf, but I think a good one that would reward players that choose to specialize as a tamer.
     
  27. maroite

    maroite Guest

    As easy as mortal strike spam? rolleyes:

    or running up to someone on a dexxer while in war mode. . .

    PvPer's concept of "skill" has always baffled me.

    "Oh noes! Running up to a guy so my character can auto swing at him is so difficult!"

    And then they claim that bandages, pots, apples, oranges are difficult to manage... Yeah, tamers use those to buddy, and have to watch a pet and their own health/status + the pets.
     
  28. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I want a frenzied ostard pack wearing tekagi on their feet! :lol:

    Being able to change the damage type and/or resists of clockworks through a material bonus would be nice, and appropriate, but I don't think we should tamper with living pets. It's a huge can of tasty, tasty worms.

    Even swamp dragon barding seems a bit overdone now. I suppose that's offset by them being horribly weak fighters. I don't know if a valorite swampie is more effective as a tank pet or as protection for the rider now, so I won't comment further.
     
  29. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    I think what should be done since they are now weak they should drop the control slots down to 2 for the old Dragons, and the WWs.
     
  30. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Don't you mean "key" a tamer presses? Or wait i guess it might be 2 if you have to heal yourself. Anyway, thats why i stopped pvping with my ninja / archer /chiv/ tamer. It was funny for a few hours, then just got boring. Click someone with deathstrike (and yes unless it was changed / fixed in the last few months you can still do this with 0 tactics) then stand there and heal yourself. So yes you Can "pvp" with a tamer with 1 or 2 buttons. Yes you need some hld and hit chance, some casting (i was 3/5) but thats about it.
     
  31. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    You are joking right ?
     
  32. maroite

    maroite Guest

    What one on one? And against a bad player?

    What about posions and mortal strikes?

    Most tamers don't run with resist spells, so paralyzing them and then dragging their pets off someplace is an easy kill.

    I doubt you pvp'd with just 2 keys, and if you did, it was 1v1 with someone who was pretty bad.
     
  33. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    I had to try with everyone putting their ideas out there on how things should be I figured I would slip this one in LOL. yes it was a joke.
     
  34. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i used alot of hp regen, sometimes protection, and somtimes dog form. killing a pally is tuff. most the time people would either just run away, if they actually stayed to fight theyd lose life to the deathstrike, then my beetle would finish them off.
     
  35. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    You brought the idea of skill to the table big guy, not I. oh, and i do have a tamer, i don't play it, cause its worthless. and no, im not gunna transfer to catskills to kill a board warrior, let alone one that plays a tamer. I can't think of anyone ive ever played/fought against in uo thatw as good that felt his tamer was his best pvp char.
     
  36. maroite

    maroite Guest

    ... If hp regen and dog form counter poison and mortal strike to the point that you don't have to cleanse them off to heal yourself, then I guess most pvpers are just doing pvp all wrong.

    Also, from your explanation I am guessing it was usually 1v1? I know you wouldn't have that easy of a time killing someone in PvP (I don't consider 1v1 PvP) when people are using pots, petals, apples and cross healing.
     
  37. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Ok, maybe your not getting my point. You Must know how hard it is to kill a pally, if not you havent played / fought many pallys. The problem is a pally doesnt put out very much damage, but when you get most of your offensive damage from a pet, problem solved. You stay alive (easy) and your pet kills everyone, teleports into houses, poisons so much that no one can pot fast enough. Maybe it helps that my beetle is really old, and really good, like 135 poisoning or around there. Yes you kill people off one by one, so i guess anytime you kill one person and then move on to the next you dont consider it pvp? And like i said, yes most people run off when they get dped, heal, then come back. But that was the idea, get people to run away from me so they take the deathstrike, so they are easy to finish off when poisoned and shooting fireballs with a fast crossbow.
     
  38. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    An easy solution to allow for llewyns idea would be to simply disallow the commands in PvP, in the sense that if you target a player with the commands, the pet will just "look confused" instead of doing it. That would allow it to work in PvM, but keep it from unbalancing PvP.

    As for taming improvement, i still refer to my previous idea that was deleted with the forum, I am going to resurrect it one of these days, as it would vastly improve taming, bring it up to date to existing skills, make it more fun and without completely overpowering it.
     
  39. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I'll just repeat my offer, I'm at Yew gate quite often in the evenings EST on Catskills, or you can ICQ me at 11893766, join some faction other than TB and bring a tamer, then you can prove to me how easy playing a tamer is. I'll be there with bells on.

    Well let's be nice, but yes, people don't realize that the old dragon is one of the most underrated pets in the game. I've killed hundreds with a plain old school dragon, quite literally.

    Well as I've already said twice. Any time you want to do something other than play the "board warrior" and actually put some action behind those words, feel free to prove to me that playing a tamer takes no skill. My ICQ is further up in this post if you want to arrange a time. Once they activate the character copy function we can even do it on TC if that makes you happy, and I'll try to FRAPS the festivities... ;)
     
  40. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Why not just setup a simple mage suit on test with me. Mage dueling is a pretty good test of skill, one of the few thing sin this game that does require some timing and thought =)

    PS i have one tamer put together for tanking spawn, and a second on soulstones that used to be a dread mare mage, neither of which im gunna waste my money to transfer anywhere. If you wanna prove how awesome you are, hop on test and make a suit/char. i'll do the same if you accept.
     
  41. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    The whole point is, you say that playing a tamer takes no skill. If you are right, you should be able to slap together a tamer, grab any pet, and come fight me on my tamer, and the end result should be that we both end up at 500. If playing a tamer takes no skill, then it's all just luck, so the end result should always be a 500 record when two tamers fight each other.

    I'll freely admit, I play a sucky mage, and it doesn't really interest me all that much, so I have no interest in putting the time in to get better at it. But I am very good at playing a tamer, at least I think so. But if I'm wrong, and playing a tamer takes no skill at all, it won't matter how good I think I am, if I fight any other tamer, we should always end up at 500.

    So any time you feel like proving me wrong, my contact information is in this thread. Send me an ICQ, and we can go rumble. Once TC is set up so that we can copy characters to TC, I'll copy my character over, and we can meet there if you like. But building my tamer has taken me years, literally, so TC isn't an option for me unless we can copy characters over.
     
  42. And that idea would take away a Tamer's major defense in Felucca. Bad idea, imho.
     
  43. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I think you're so used to LC spewing nonsense that you misunderstood what he was saying. He was just repeating Pinco's original idea that the commands for specifically controlling pet abilities not work against players.

    But as i said, I would prefer that they did work against players, they could be prevented from being op by adding cool downs for abilities, and capping damage on specials like firebreath in pvp, in my opinion. I'd rather see that kind of control available in pvp because it would add another element of skill and control to fighting with a pet.

    The tamer haters wouldn't like it because, well, they hate tamers... ;)
     
  44. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Oh yeah, lets make me defending you into a thread about "LC Sucks because I disagree with him" thread instead. Awesome! :thumbup1:

    I agree with the others that it would make tamers overpowered in PvP if you could control the high damage output of some pets and time it with your own damage output.
     
  45. No, no... I didn't misunderstand, just think it's a bad way to implement it. Damage caps and things like that for PvP I can understand, not disabling certain commands against other players. To my way of thinking, that's just short of the argument to disable all pets in PvP, and THAT is a bad idea too.
     
  46. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    to me the whole tamer vrs other classes (skill wise) isnt really something to really argue about. Its part of the game. PVP is about skill and respect for people who are really into it. Archers tamers and easy because of the nature of their class to pvp with. Theres always the gimp template of the month (like the pot throwing alchemist was, and now the mystic mage) Mages and Necro have always gotten a bit more respect because of the timing that has to actually go into it to actually kill someone. But to each his own. I would love to see something like this for pets / taming, but it would take alot of work to make sure it wasnt overpowered. It probably would be for a bit, and then tamers would complain when they "got nerfed." but thats UO.
     
  47. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    not gunna waste my time. i have no interest in tamer pvp, build any tempalte on TC you want, i'll use a straight mage, and i'll bet you 100m on any shard that i win. If youw ant to use a tamer, thats fine, go tame yourself a gdragon
     
  48. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I'd settle for mine being able to follow me if I teleport over a river etc, and pathfind it's way back to me when it's hared off after something half a screen away, without me having to chase off after it yelling 'fluffy come,' because 'all follow me' leaves it wedged up against the nearest tree or rock and not enough sense to go around it.
     
  49. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Ah, well in that case, I misunderstood you... :)

    The point I am trying to get you to help me prove, is that playing a tamer in pvp takes skill. If you beat my tamer while you play a mage, then you'll say I have no skill, if I beat you, you'll say I have no skill, so it's a lose/lose proposition for me, and completely pointless. However, if you grab a tamer and come pvp against me on my tamer, the only result that shows that playing a tamer takes no skill is if we both end up at 500, ie. you beat me as often as I beat you.

    If I beat you more often that you beat me, or you beat me more often that I beat you while we both are playing a tamer, then it would clearly show that you are wrong. There would have to be some reason why one of us beat the other more often, and the only reasons I can think of would be skill and preparation (and preparation is a huge component of all forms of "skill").

    If you aren't willing to do that, that tells me you are all talk, and have nothing to back up your insults, and anything you have to say on the subject should be taken accordingly. And I'll tell you what I think, you say you have "no interest in tamer pvp", that tells me you also have little, if any, experience playing a tamer in pvp. In other words, you don't know what you are talking about. You are just a typical tamer hater that says playing a tamer in pvp takes no skill, when you really don't have a clue about what it does take to be successful as a tamer in pvp.

    My guess is that you win most of your fights against tamers, but it annoys you that you have to use different tactics against a tamer than you do against other templates. So you'd just rather they were gone from pvp, and possibly from the game altogether, at least any part of the game you are interested in. In my opinion when you are saying that tamers take no skill to pvp with, what you are really saying is that it annoys you that you have to change your tactics when you fight a tamer, and all you are really doing, when you get right down to it, is whining...
     
  50. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

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    lol i am done with you, and this argument.

    the taming skill in pvp is a complimentary skill that is very very very very powerful, but takes virtually no effort to use its great power. it also has no drawback, you never have to res your pet because youc an just exploit the system and logout when you die. The fact that you don't understand this in pvp shows your lack of experience, and the fact you are arguing random points about pvp tamers with me, is irrelevant and ignorant.

    Also, experience with tamer pvp. I have played a dread mare mage and a tamer archer with a dread mare. Both were annoying, and the tamer archer made for some ridiculously easy skills, and how much effort did it take?

    (dismounts pet)
    Say: all guard me (Dismount special)
    Attack enemy
    Switch to Bow
    para shot
    mortal


    IF NECCESARY
    switch to heavy
    moving shot
    moving shot