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TC Changes

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Speaking the Truth, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Has anyone else tested these changes and think some of them are a bit absurd?

    Death strike takes more skill points than any other skill to use. Most templates take two skills, then adding your mage/dexer skills. IE Tamer temp Tame/Lore Necro/Spirit speak Mystic/Focus ect. To use and have an effective death strike you need roughly 300 skill points min. After testing it with the changes it's equivalent to a very weak armor ignore(I was getting 27's on good ones).

    I just wanted to know if anyone else tested this and if they agree considering how much this takes to use, and it can already fail when you hit someone. I thought before that it was fair to do a little over armor ignore damage for the trade off of having almost half your allocated skill points that you get invested to use this.

    Also with magic reflect, does anyone know the reasoning why they are changing this back and now Reactive Armor? My biggest conern is suits that use this for the actual +10 resistances will now lose this making building suits more difficult(not impossible, just more difficult). What's the purpose of changing just the reflect back to how it use to be but not the reactive armor?
     
  2. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I forgot to mention I was glad they fixed fields, and also the changes to pots, and mystic were good. Some dexer templates will get affected by this more than most other tempaltes, but it's nice to have some skill brought back and not just how much one is carrying in their pack.
     
  3. Babble

    Babble Guest

    For the reflect change, I guess they want to strengthen resist a little more
     
  4. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Yes, and no I don't.

    Are you Laxative Tablet? If so...:lol:
     
  5. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    No I'm not laxative tablet.

    So please go into detail how that's fair then?

    I've used examples that show my point well, can you refute intelligently, or you just want to disagree because someone killed you and you think it's me because you're a moron? I'm sorry you got owned on demise as well, however that doesn't change the fact that my points make sense and you're trying to derail a thread : (
     
  6. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, I understand what they are TRYING to do; its just not so awesome that it affects people who spent a lot of time/ money/ energy on building 'awesome' suits. Truth be told, I went back last night and tuned my characters armor that used the spell. In some, I ended up with better armor once I started playing with things (I don't use imbued armor). I think one character ended up with 11 MR instead of 13; that was the worst hit. Still, not world shattering.
     
  7. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I agree with you canary as I said it's not going to make or break anything, however after having it since aos it doesn't make sense to change MR and not RA, wouldn't it be an all or nothing situtation. Also there are a fair amount of people that do use this spell for the + resist part of it. Most of my suits don't use it so it's not a big deal for me, however that doesn't mean just because I'm not going to be affected I should just ignore it.

    I do like most of their changes, but after extensive testing on the death strike that one seems to be their biggest mistake to me. Also I may have been unlucky but spell plague was still going off a lot. This is one spell that needs to be changed, perhaps like blood oath where only one can be on a target at a time. As anyone who pvps knows, cleansing winds/ spell plauge has made it so even bad players can compete, there should be a degree of skill involved in player vs player fighting imho.
     
  8. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Reactive armor for use with armor resists has been pointless since mysticism came out. Purge magic nullifies it. Second, you only use faction items...I do not see where resist would be an issue or even come into play. (My suit on atl is non faction and I have never had any reason to use reactive armor for resists since the advent of imbuing.)

    Third, I asked if you were laxative tablet because he runs in protection, with reactive armor, and swings a bokuto while using mysticism. If it isn't you, then why get all butthurt from bringing them up?

    Lastly, I ASKED if you were someone...on the flip side your whole response was all assumptions. I didnt get owned, laxative died to me shortly after talking trash in game (whats new?). I don't know what demise is, and your points really don't make any sense...or are outdated. Period.

    Oh and if you would like to call people morons, there are plenty of your posts in the LA threads I could make light of which clearly show your impressive (lack of) intelligence.
     
  9. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Oh please, the only reason you would complain about something is if it affects you personally. Otherwise you wouldn't post at all. So less bullshnit and more truth...thanks.
     
  10. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Again I'm sorry that I've killed you on every shard you've played you're not good and hence that's the end result.

    However those changes still don't make sense why it would be one and another. If you think me having 1 suit out of 18 that use MR is reason enough for me to want it not to change you're soreless mistaken. I call it like I see it for things. For example just because I don't play a mystic doesn't mean I want it to be nerfed. I don't play a bushido character so it's not as if i'm crying nerf to that, however when you see how affective two spells can make bad players, obviously something needs to happen. It's the equivalent of WOD/AI as far as skill goes.

    Next you died on demise trying to get free **** because I told that person who you were and they don't like people who are bad at pvp.

    Lastly you still didn't make any counter points to anything that I said, you've still failed to bring any good points and you lose when you try this, just like on lake austin. Just like when you tried to lie about how many pots you used in a fight with chad ect ect, you never win this arguments because you never have substance.

    If you have any good counter points I would love to hear them, other wise you are indeed just upset you've died to me on every shard and even to my friends on free shards trying to get handouts : )
     
  11. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Did I miss something? They are changing death strike again?
     
  12. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, death strike dmg is split into direct and physical now.

    So the 40dmg death strike now does 20(direct) + 6(physical) so 26dmg against someone with 70 physical resist.
     
  13. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    To OP's argument I think it might have something to do with the way how stealthers work.

    Smoke bomb and stealth makes any decent stealthers pretty god like. And with such an amazing survivability, combos like nerve strike death strike nerve nerve nerve might be too much for offensive.

    It goes like stealther pops out nerve ds nerve nerve then gets a kill.
    or
    stealther pops out nerve ds whiff whiff run away smoke bomb rinse and repeat.

    Also unlike AI or other specials, death strike does not get penalized for double mana cost.

    I play a stealther sometimes and I feel like running in godmode. Animal form, mirror images, smoke bomb, stealth and shadowjump makes it pretty easy to survive.

    just my 2cent
     
  14. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    No, deathstrike just has a much higher initial cost.

    No matter how you say it, deathstrike did not need another nerf.

    It did a little more damage than an AI, but it was delayed, not a guarantee to go off, and if you just stood still it did 11 dmg.
     
  15. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Actually I routinely death strike people for 55+ with human JoAT tracking. Oh and nerve DS nerve spam I insta-killed quite a few people as well.

    I understand no one likes to have their template nerfed, but there are always changes in MMORPG. I could careless, I only play one char that has ninjitsu for offense, and it feels pretty gimp sometimes. (a 4/6 chiv nerve ds dexer).

    Well if you are good enough and played that char right you will feel like god. A few smoke bombs are all you need when the OH **** moments happen.

    BUT that's just me.
     
  16. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    You said if you're lax assuming you knew who I was when you were wrong. It made no sense considering his char wouldn't be affected by death strike. It would be affected by the nerve strike not setting off the spell plague. However my whole point was no other skill takes as many points as death strike and they are making it worse now, which didn't make sense.

    The fact still remains that I couldn't see a target with my screen in a different size and the people that I was playing with that had a larger screen could see futher and teleport to places I couldn't. You saying other wise doesn't change what happened.

    Last time we did this you cried a lot. I've killed you everytime we've fought. I know that you're upset they are nerfing the two spells that let you stay on screen for slightly longer with better players. However you are bad at pvp it's the same reason you dropped out of factions even while being in one of the largest guilds in all of uo.

    I noticed you couldn't argue with the forumla about the three skills needed for a death strike that's not guranteed to hit, and now adding a fourth skill and it's still not worth having even after all that. Again you provided no substance as to why my argument was wrong.

    WarUltima I've never played the template with bushido that's just a terrible template you can't heal ect then. But Lynk makes a valid point, death strike only hits that hard if you've tracked someone it actually hits and people run, that template would not kill a good player if we're being honest. I don't doubt however that it can kill terrible players who are instantly running to a tracked death strike, but I don't see what a smoke bomb has to do with that template needing almost half your skill points(soon to take over half if played after the patch) for that single move and now the damage is not worth using.
     
  17. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    If you dont call 4/6 casting close wound + confidence a heal, then I guess you are right. AND you got animal form and mirror image when ur footed. AND you got mirror image that redirect hits 90% of the time. AND if you have no clue about how smoke bomb helps in PvP I have nothing more to say to you.

    At least for me I have no issue staying alive with 4/6 chiv heals (I wont even go into the whole confidence heal) Maybe you are not used to casting? It's a terrible template for some people but not me. People really need to have some imagination in building their templates.

    Fighting on a shard that your enemy zerg you 9 out of 10 fights really helps in that aspect.
     
  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    OK mister, please hop on a mage and show me how bad I really am.
     
  19. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    ... other than what's in the OP, is there any place where these TC changes are listed? I don't remember notes on this stuff. there are some pretty crazy changes in there!
     
  20. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The notes for the stuff on Test Center is posted in Test Center Forum
    Stickied at the top
     
  21. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    and the devs are reading and replying in the thread Petra posted. Some adjustments have already been made.

    What strikes me the most in several of the changes is the reintroduction of the element of chance.
     
  22. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Thank you Petra; I'll have to bookmark that forum :O
     
  23. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree with deathstrike becoming useless after this nerf and way to many skill points. I do not use a ninja, but I would never think of picking that skill up for that little damage output. What needs to be nerfed is how quickly one can hide/smoke bomb when being attacked. Also, I think animal form should be able to be disrupted. Why can every other spell in game be disrupted except this?
     
  24. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Yeah the damage nerf it a bit to much imo. I think what they should have done if anything is made it cost double mana if a special move had already been toggled much like spamming armor ignores or disarm/bleed one after another. They should do that with Lightning strike also and put a partial nerf on sampires.
     
  25. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    It[deathstrike] already costs close to what a double spec does, I don't think a special should be doubled after it as well.

    WarUltima I'm saying its terrible temp as all your ways of healing with the exception of pots can be stopped with a weaken. That template is awful and I fight outnumbered all the time. Healing with bandages > your temp any day of the week.
     
  26. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Well, I guess you cant play any template outside run away in straight line waiting for bandage to kick in. Wait you said you are some kind of stealther right? made sense and if I remember correctly, you were in a stealther oriented guild that you refused to tell anyone who you are.

    It's ok, sorry you cannot play certain template but I could. Not saying you are terrible but well you arent good since you dont even know such template quite popular actually exists on many shards. And since you would weaken as your main disrupt vs 4/6 CW you arent really good at PvP. Btw close wound is as fast as cure, and when is the last time any decent mage unable to get a cure off vs weaken spam? Well I know mages close to my level of PvP can easily pull it off, and in 4/6 close wound's case, it's just as easy to pull off a 4/6 heal as a mage to pull off a cure vs weaken (especially when weaken does zero(0) dmg). But since you dont play a mage you probably has no idea.

    Btw, you can also disrupt a Greater Heal, Mini Heal, Cleasing Wind, Spirit Speak, Confidence spell with a weaken so what's your point again? Any template without bandage heals (since you obviously rely on running away alot) is terrible... YES, but only for players at your level of skill. Not saying in good but it's safe to say you suck if you cant 4/6 thru a mage dump effortlessly, and there are a good amount of people actually rely on 4/6 close wound to heal. (you know not just smokebomb or run the other way in straight line until bandages heals you back to full).

    Oh we have different definition of playing while being zerged, You play from stealth I play it heads up. There's a difference there.
     
  27. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    War, your template does suck, and I bet you do too. Please state what shard (s) you are from and I will gladly kill you on it with an outdated mage temp. And if you want to mage duel (laugh) I will gladly accommodate that and see how easy it is for you to get out of my disrupts.

    Thank you.
     
  28. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    Hey, this is ultima online - you are free to build a template you like. I've seen people pull off strange temps and be successful with it, when everyone else thought the template was crazed and could never work. Actually it probably doesn't work for most, but if it suits youR playstyle and - above all! - you have fun with it, then go ahead.
     
  29. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Most people can't think that far ahead.

    As for the template debate. I rely on 4/6 chiv casting and pots on a number of characters with no other healing methods but those two, does not mean I suck it means the people who fail to kill me suck (according to Paithan anyhow) If you spam weaken while I beat on you and pot...I think I will still win, if I cast close wounds with 4/6 casting you would already be casting and not be able to interrupt it with a weaken, either way point seems...obsolete. Not commenting on if WarUltima's template is good or not, simply refuting your argument for why it is not.
     
  30. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    The fact is any spell can interupt your only forms of healing minus pots, that was my point.

    My stealth template plays heads up and it would destory your terrible only healing with 4/6 in confidence. Any good mage or dexer would destroy that template. I'm sorry that you're bad, but all your points don't make sense to what my argument was. Also close wounds isn't as fast as a cure since I've harm spammed 4/6's before.


    War are you a bad player from the west? Anyways name what shard your bad stealther played on, I would love to fight this template to show you just how bad it is and that you don't know what you're talking about : )
     
  31. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Sonoma let's pure mage it see who's the better mage. Or field fight you pick. Little guy.
     
  32. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    All I have to say is LOL at the people who think a 4/6 chiv death strike template is weak.

    I roll with a guy who plays that exact template and the guy slaughters, Congratulations that you can weaken spam him while he is trying to heal..... I highly doubt you can weaken every close wounds he casts, I've gotten off teleports with dubs weaken spamming me, and close wounds casts much faster than Teleport. (And yes, this was a "Good" mage weaken spamming me).

    And once that template hits you with a bleed you just lost alot of your offensive capabilities on a mage, and if he understands basic dexxer movement to hit another player, and you aren't half decent at evading, he can easily drop you. lobbing shurikens, keeping you bleeding, getting in the occasional death-strike followed by a disarm, oh yeah... and HOLY light in case you do try casting anything bigger than a magic arrow. MAN I bet he is really afraid you are going to weaken spam him to disrupt that close wounds he would occasionally cast when you casted "ANY" Spell. rolleyes:


    Deathstrike Nerve is RIDICULOUS. Like the other guy stated 300 Skills Invested AT LEAST, My ds'er has 340 Invested, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. Why in the world are they even looking into changing this!?!
     
  33. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    LOL could you pick a more dead shard? Well since I said any good mage would crush that template I'll ask chad to jump on some random mage he has on there and you be on that template and fight heads up since you dont run. At the farms sound good to you?
     
  34. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    You forgot fient :thumbup1:

    (Which can EASILY make a mage or dexxer ruin this dumps left and right)

    So..

    Smoke Bombs, 4/6 Chiv, Confidence, Animal Form, Mirror Image, Fient..

    Btw your (Not you War) "Any good mage can kill this temp crap" lol?

    *Casts Curse*
    *Casts Explosion*
    'Remove Curse While Casting Explosion'
    -Wasted Explosion/Combo-
    *Recurse*
    *Reremove*

    -We somehow manage to get past that part of the fight (Even though realistically that will be 90% Of the battle)-

    *Cursed*
    *Casts Explo and Targets*
    'Offscreen Confidence Lol'
    -Wasted Explo/combo-

    --------

    You say any mage can kill that template, Well i say any Character with 120 Confidence alone can survive almost any mage temp (Myst Excluded) by simply offscreening and Confidence/Full before comming back.
     
  35. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    Oh boy- gotta love when someone puts up a hypothetical situation that would not happen. Then got to love someone that thinks running off screen and confidence is good pvp. Anyone that off screens will be able to cast anything to heal.

    If anyone wants to test any of these amazing 4/6 templates vs a good mage I will be glad to show you how bad they are.

    And if someone let you get off a teleport while weaken spamming you- either they messed up or they are really bad.
     
  36. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    I kept my situation vague and realistic, Thanks sir, I cannot count how many times my mage fights have been Curse/Remove dances with Apples/Chiv.

    A Gheal or Cleans is pretty easy to weaken if they are trying to Offscreen you, If you are at the same speeds. (Lol)

    And I love how Mages have a problem with offscreening (Me getting out of your range) But when I play a Melee Dexxer, You seem to have no trouble at all running circles and dancing around. (Getting Out of My range)

    Btw, an unrealistic situation is expecting to be able to weaken spam a melee dexxers 4/6, Like they *Wouldn't* be standing there chaining specials and damage on you, And *Only* trying to Chiv heal.
     
  37. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Apparently you have to give overly detailed explanations of EVERY possible scenario for EVERY template variation that could possibly happen in order for some of these people to understand anything.
     
  38. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Yea you're right it sucks trying to re-explaing things to all these bad pvpers. War ultima said he fights heads up, which means what Vaelix? He wouldn't off screen.

    His tempalte is terrible again weaken was just an EXAMPLE.

    Your solution for him to run like a ***** only proves my point that his template is terrible and can't go toe to toe since he wants loldisruptmychivandcofidence over healing. Learn to pvp.

    Also anytime you want to show me this fight where you beat chad in the farms with no rules just no hiding let me know so I can see how you beat a good mage on that template.

    I await you to avoid this completely.

    PS could you play a more dead shard? LOL sonoma is your main?ahahahhah
     
  39. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Here let me quote what you said yourself little kittie.
    So you challenged me because you think you can beat me, ok.
    You asked what west shard I play so you can kick my ass, so I told you sonoma.

    Now I have a feeling you are gonna try to avoid this forever lol.

    Again, you challenged, and I answered exactly like what you asked. The challenger go to the one they are challenging to try to make a point and everyone knows that.

    So you have a chance to cover your own mouth by coming to Sonoma and beat me at the farm. Or you can purchase a transfer token and give to my and I will xfer to a shard of your choice. So are you telling me you are chickening out on me? Dead/Populated shard has nothing to do with 1v1 duel last time I checked. So again, I will meet you on Sonoma or you give me a xfer token on Sonoma and I will meet you at your shard.

    Please please do not puss out on me. Please. I am waiting.

    Typical mage 5 duel (magery/eval/med/scribe/resist) with a lantern and spellbook, no pot.

    Or you field fight if you prefer. Let me know when you are coming/giving me the xfer token. Please reply ASAP. Thank you.
     
  40. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    WU (aka Thrax2) duel????

    Damned..you made me spit coffee on my keyboard with that one. That is funny!!!!
     
  41. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Yep, you failed to show up on any duel is even funnier and dont forget the 100+ 1v1 screenshots that consist of me dropping every single one of you in your noob zerg guild? And you guys has yet to kill me once 1v1 since the birth of Sonoma. You really dont want me to post those screenies here :lol:

    You play in the zerggiest guild on Sonoma yes dead shard where theres no more than 15 people fighting in fel yet 11 of which are you losers who plays nothing but myst mages myst tamers and tamer archers and stealth archers.

    And coming from someone that plays purely stealth archer that does nothing but dismount and smoke bomb just so your newb friends can zerg 10v1. I mean you cant even play a mage for god's sake.

    Snake when you grow a pair let me know anytime please do not make me wait at the farm again and come up with something like "i got stuff to take care of irl":lol:, meanwhile I will take care of this guy once he gets here.
     
  42. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    And yet you are always grassroot sniffing to me on any of my templates...or running for the hills...

    LOL..exactly what does that tell these fine people?

    I just think someone else..or anyone else..may be better qualified to speak about these changes for PvP..then this person. Let's let someone who knows about Pvp to quip in.

    No offense...of course. I am sure you are trying real hard to learn. Keep it up. *tips hat*
     
  43. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    Hey warultima, maybe his point was good pvpers play multiple shards and he does not have a character on sonoma. If you are telling me the only shard you have a character on is that crappy shard, then that makes your pvp comments null and void right there.

    The following shards I will pure mage you on:

    Legends
    Atlantic
    Lake superior
    Great Lakes
    Chesapeake
    Catskills
    Origin
    Pacific
    Lake Austin
    Baja

    You have your pick of east or west coast as well. Hint: Im an east coast player, so you have no chance there. But seeing as how I have invested much more in making characters to accommodate other shards. You can provide yourself with an x-fer token. I will put money on our duel as well if you wish.
     
  44. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    lol another one that wants to duel but refuse to stand up and move.

    i dont hide behind my stratics name. Also i have a field fighting char on cheesy name is warultima and i probably have dropped you before which explains it. Yes sonoma is crap shard that people like widow plays, and i have characters on different shard, all field fighting chars however.

    oh ps i am a west coast player, i will fight you on cheesy. my 150 ping against your 20. If you are active look for me on cheesy. Plz dont tell me you are just another stealther who does nothing but chest pumping.

    westcoast shards has been pretty stupid. However, sonoma is where i started therefore if you want to shut me up welcome to sonoma. however i will fight you on cheesy if you want, or you can find yourself a xfer token and come to sonoma. Since dueling isnt real pvp all my offsharders are field oriented. You can pure mage me on sonoma or cheesy i have a char there. Oh on sonoma you stand no chance therefore i will do cheesy.

    And your cheesy char name is? I am in Minax, so if you are a pvper i expect you to be in faction as well, so let me know.
     
  45. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    Hiding behind a board name? Everyone that plays a mage on the east coast has heard of "Paith". I ping 130 to the west and offered to fight on any of the shards I have characters on (and 50 to the east ). Does something make you think that I do not only have field fighting characters, just because I said I would duel? I meant I would duel you on my any of my field fighting mages because that is all I play. Also every one of my characters on every shard are in factions. I will gladly field fight you on any of my characters. The only way you have a chance is if you have mystic because that is overpowered and my characters are necros. But on chessy I am Suckless.Com. I am in SL on that shard, so leave your ICQ and I will gladly stat you.
     
  46. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I have never heard of you before, maybe you dont pvp enough on cheesy considering I am almost on there everyday. So when you are ready to be stated let me know.

    Please post your icq here when you are ready.
     
  47. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    One thing you have to know about the almighty "Paith", is that he doesn't show up unless it's with several of his e-bffs.

    Oh and another thing...he's usually dead at yew gate on any number of shards because he logged in stat.
     
  48. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    I do not pvp there often. I mainly play Atlantic. I visit other shards when its dead there.... My aim name is JeremyAustin. I asked you to leave your ICQ also.
     
  49. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Seasoned Veteran
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    Huh? I play solo more often than not. When I am playing with someone else it is generally 1-2 people.

    And the only way I die is if the opponent outnumbers me. If you disagree, please step up to the plate (or get anyone from your guild to) and I will gladly show you how to win a 1v1.
     
  50. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    There's no need to disagree with such a false statement. If mage skill was equivalent to profession I think you'd at least be a janitor...