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Tedium of keying and pitiful drop rates.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord GOD(GOD), Dec 5, 2010.

?

Do you agree that the effort vs reward in UO is heavily weighted on effort?

  1. Yes

    48 vote(s)
    82.8%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    17.2%
  1. In the last two days I have done the following:

    Solo
    7 Stygian Dragons - 5 gave no rewards, 2 gave some pointless shield and a 3.0 Camping SOT
    6 Renowned Pixies - no artifact
    4 Niporailem - no artifact
    3 Renowned Wyverns - no artifact
    2 Medusa - 1 no drop, 1 pointless garg dagger
    8 Harbingers - 1 Garb

    Group
    1 Travesty - no drop
    2 Melisande - no drop
    1 Rikktor - no drop
    1 Semidar - no drop
    2 Barracoon - no drop
    1 Serrado - no drop
    2 Mephitis - no drop

    Given the amount of time involved in doing all of this, would anyone consider the effort vs reward ratio worthwhile? It took 1 hour 40 mins to key 2 Medusa runs on a Bard, and its just as well I already had lenses or that'd be another 2 hours getting the materials for 5 lenses. I've never fallen asleep doing anything in my life but came damn close directing snakes into holes for eggs.

    Just about everything in UO has some pointless wait timer on it, you must wait to play the snake flute again, you must wait for the Travesty key droppers to respawn, you must wait for dryads to respawn. It feels like 90% of my UO time is keying, 10% is killing and the rewards are something like 70% no reward, 25% a reward that isn't worth a damn, 4% a reward thats usable but not worth anything (like SOT's for skills that are easy or useless, and drops that unravel into relics) and 1% or under the reward you actually want/are doing it for.

    Worth mentioning also that no one on any of the group ones got anything either.
     
  2. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    This coming from the man that got the uber talisman with 10 ssi off a para turkey? :lol: Nice practical joke btw :thumbup1:


    I could not agree more on the drop rate and the rng. Not to mention I have heard talk about lowering the drop rate on renowneds? Personally I think the drop rate on them needs to be bumped up a LITTLE not a lot, and the drop rate on the fishing artis should be dropped a good bit, it really blows seeing those legs etc on vendors for 200k or less now.
     
  3. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I agree 100%. All of the peerless and renowns need a Doom-like point system that guarantees you a drop eventually. This is also why the Treasures of Tokuno is still my favorite event. Minors dropped at a decent rate and then you got to trade them in for items that actually fit your needs. I wish they would emulate the ToT system or a Doom-point system abyss wide on a permanent basis.

    -OBSIDIAN-
     
  4. I heard of one guy getting the entire new set on one MIB. The Kelp legs I have waiting to go into a suit (when they bugger up my resists with the Magic Reflect change) I found thrown on the floor at a bank.

    Doom is another odd one, its got that new system which helps but theres only like 5 out of 33 that are even worth having. If they removed a lot of the junk ones it would give more incentive to go there as you'd be more likely to get what you were hunting for. Instead we seem to be getting some weird cycle of every few weeks something gets nerfed and another batch of mostly useless artifacts gets added.

    I think people are plenty willing to go and do them, so I don't think lazyness or greed come into it, people dedicate an entire build to killing specific things, and often a second character to get the keys. That makes it all the more dissapointing when all you get (after hours of work) is Stone Dragon Tooths and Petrified Snakes.
     
  5. Babble

    Babble Guest

    PvE is designed as time sink to keep players paying.

    The balance between tedium (cancelling account) and too easy (running quickly out of content to cancel account) is to be held.

    i have no idea if it is balanced, but as you seem to be a hardcore PvE and don't have the items you want dropped it seems to be on the ok side.
     
  6. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    HS boss drops are bad now it seems as well. Which is quite lame considering what it can take to kill them. Could it all be a conspiracy? Devs want us to support them more, so they lower drop rates secretly right before announcing they are working on a new RNG/drop system? As long as the new system drops more, they come out lookin good. Genius!
     
  7. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Welcome to UO. It has always been like this, not sure why you're complaining about it now. People used to do doom for a month before getting a garbage artifact...you're complaining about two days?
     
  8. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I see on those legs that they have "casting focus 4%"
    this a new skill mod or resist?
    Guess I missed it in the release notes
     
  9. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Lol.
     
  10. Whinemaker

    Whinemaker Guest

    I'm sorry but I just can't resist asking... where do you fight Harbingers? Do they even still spawn? I missed the 2009 Halloween event so I just want to know more about it.

    I don't play enough to have anything to say about the actual drop rate, but 2 things:
    1) Some kind of trade-ins for Doom artefacts would be great - of the 20 or so drops I've got, I swear the Bone Crusher, Frostbringer and Berserker's Maul made up 15 of them (and I'm sorry Dev's, but I'm sure you know that they're useless weapons by today's UO standard).
    I don't care even if they make it 25 artefacts turned in for 1 of your choice, right now it's just too random. This might also promote camping for the people who play UO 24/7 as if they have no life, which could be something good for the casual players because they can just join in even at odd hours without having to gather a party of their own, knowing someone's bound to be there.

    2) Increase loot for bosses depending on the number of attackers, up to 16x - i.e. 2x if 2 players received looting rights etc. Sometimes it's just pretty pointless to do a peerless with 2 other people and all you get is 2 taints. Don't get me wrong I can solo most of them, but what's the point playing ONLINE if you just play alone all the time.
     
  11. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    All you need is a yellow crystallized essence and you can summon the Harbinger. I don't think you can still get the essences though, just have to buy them off a vendor if you don't have a stash of them. I have seen folks pop them at Oaks spawn and the Ethereal Fortress in Ilsh, but you can pop one almost anywhere.
     
  12. As Kylie said.

    I usually pop them in Ilshenar around things I can Provoke on them to kill. I was just using up a stash.
     
  13. I know, when Doom came out it was 13 months before I got a drop there too. I can't help but think you're missing the point, its two days I've kept track of, two days on the end of 10 years, because "it has always been like this" doesn't mean we have to agree with it, once every blue moon players ***** about something and it gets looked at. Why now? *shrugs* because my arm aches and I felt like it? Hehe.
     
  14. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    No, there are always people complaining about RNG or whatever when they're unlucky. Sometimes you're lucky sometimes you aren't...that's just how it is.
     
  15. Howlin Wolf

    Howlin Wolf Guest

    If you have the crystals and a bard, provoke turkeys to make quick work of discorded harbingers.
     
  16. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think the quality divide on artifacts is another fairly large problem. I mean, some of the SA arties they slapped on some new property, but leave the item far inferior to anything you could imbue. Doom arties like you said, most of them are a joke at this point.

    I really don't think they understand the impact that imbuing has had on PVM, and on how to design consistently desirable rare items in the post imbuing landscape.

    I wouldn't have a problem with the crappy drop rates if more of the items were even worth the bother of hunting for aside from just collecting.
     
  17. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    The number of players greatly increases chances of drops as well. If you are soloing then your chances are going to be slim whereas if you have 10 or more, then your chances increase dramatically. The kicker is rolling for the artifacts.
     
  18. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    This is why I do lots of spawns - I have zero interest in spending hours doing something that is neither fun nor rewarding.
     
  19. UODJ

    UODJ Adventurer

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    I'd say you're doing better than me...

    The last two months I've been doing renowned hoping for some goodies, and a rough estimate is:

    30 Renowned wyverns - nothing
    70 Renowned devourers - nothing
    50 Renowned goblins - 1 drop (Impaler's Pick)
    20 Renowned fire ellies - nothing
    25 Renowned fire demons - nothing

    I've also done the rest of the renowned spawns, although not as often, maybe 3-6 times for each of the others (pixie, ancient lich, skel dragon, ect) and I've gotten nothing from any of them.


    So...yeah. Drop rates suck.
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    To OP, the hunts you are talking about are designed for parties of up to 10 or more players. If you want to solo stuff just do the old peerless fights, since they are geared towards the individual as well as the group (based on the way the main loot drops on the corpse).

    New peerless fights do not favor the individual when considering drop rate. The best way to get the item you want is to do the hunts with a group of 10 or more people (drop/add) then roll or pool the items.

    Also, a sample size of less than 10 per a boss is sort of sketchy. Another guy in this thread posted "70 Renowned devourers - nothing," which is worth pursuing. I'd like to see the mini-bosses have a doom gauntlet like point system. I think the peerless are fine the way they are, though ... unless you are still looking for a Slither, heh.
     
  21. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Me and my buddy quit going to the Abyss after a week because there's just no loot to be had.
     
  22. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    The problem is not the drop rate.

    The problem is the lack of adventure and the importance of items. That's why people don't play for the fun of it anymore, but for rewards and items. Otherwise you'd fight the Stygian Dragon just because it is a great challenge.
     
  23. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    You could put the funnest boss in history in one dungeon with no loot, and some boring boss in another with great loot, and everyone would do the latter and complain about being bored.

    This holds true across every MMO ever anywhere.
     
  24. Galingree

    Galingree Journeyman
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    In my experience the drop rate at the mini spawns is 1 in 5 to 1 in 8 or so, which is ok. Corgul's drop rate is 100% for the first 6 attackers or even first 12 attacker on Fel, which is ridiculous. Medusa and Stygian dragon have a 1 in 10 drop rate I would reckon (not counting shields and petrified snakes). What I am missing so far is a drop of a rare artifact from Corgul.
     
  25. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I once found a nose helm artifact in my backpack after defeating Corgul. I think it had 20% Reflect Physical Damage, but for the other mods I'd have to look. I never used it.

    By the way, having 3 Corgul Sashes already, I fight Corgul only for the fun of it, nothing else. I'm still having a blast doing this.
     
  26. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Oh nice I got that helm the other day :) ... a "norse" helm ;P ... was a nice set of back-to-back runs for me, which gave me a "field of blades" during first run :) ... someone should probably edit UO Guide though, the item doesn't come in "deed form," you just drop it on ground and it makes that animation. It reminds me of a sprinkler -- a sprinkler of death.

    To balance the above, I've done over 50 lich mini-spawns trying to get that damn mage shield, no luck there :p.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I still fight the Stygian just because it is the only Challenge lol. I do not have HS although my wife does, I hear scalis can be rough too, which would be enjoyable for me. I do try to enjoy everything with out needing a reward to enjoy it, unlike the op......

    As for drop rates? 100+ fire demons and not a single drop. I did not even keep count of the other renowned critters.
     
  28. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    It is just the way the population plays now. Your either on for a bit at short time or are part of some small click. The minis are easy solo and plp think they need to do them alone for same chance rate as having someone help to do twice as many. Then there are the SA bosses (invite) and the peerless (invite). Doom was the public hunt party for a very long run (even when the auto loot BS sucked the fun out the endgame) Doom needs about ten new arty of use and 5 cool deco and none of the old arty removed to keep the odds high of getting new item, but at least get something.

    Have to step into the way back machine to explain how much time it took to get a high end Silver Bow. When one the Bosses was the Lich Lord in some dungeon corner. And you hunted in hope of getting another Silver Bow before the one you had broke. Let me tell you about the snow and every direction was up hill. Drive on Devs. The troops are only happy when they are pancakes. lol.
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Seems that "tedium" needs to be fixed. :spider:
     
  30. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Journeyman
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    I can understand adjustments to drop rates to a point if some arties appear to be dropping too much, especially if it leads to a glut of them and they become "nothing special."

    Having said that, the recent drop rates are nothing short of pitiful.
     
  31. Again, it isn't just two days and a few bosses, I've also recently done 100's of Renowned Devourers and Wyverns trying to get the Tink legs for a guildy. I've also done well over 100 Paroxysmus'. I've only posted the last two days because its numbers I can accurately remember. Though I also knew it was 100's of Paroxysmus and Renowned by the items I had lard/gems etc. The complaint isn't after 2 days I got 1 garb, its that based on years of experience the drop rates are terrible.

    I completely disagree with the train of thought that the new peerless were designed for groups, having been in beta when they were implemented, I'd say quite the opposite. However, regardless of that it doesn't change the fact that a solo player is putting in more effort and has more ability than a group, people who are good at something should have better chances than people who piggyback their way through with a group in a throw yourself at it and res when needed approach.

    I don't mean to sound too rant-y just wanted to hear others opinions on the drop rates etc.
     
  32. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    You wanna know whats annoying? Killing a hundred turkeys looking for some stupid talisman that really has no value to my suit only to find out the drop rate is close to the same as everything else in this game.
     
  33. Thats not annoying thats your choice. It does nothing for your suit yet you chose to hunt for it anyway. People bitched there was nothing new to do, it gave them something new to do, if people would rather believe some bs posted on a forum than playing the game they pay for and finding out for themselves they've only themselves to blame.

    Drop rates and pointless game mechanics like wait timers are annoying because they aren't your choice. The only choice there is hunt for it or don't aka Hobson's.
     
  34. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I wasn't trying to get you out of joint...It was nice to think that something new was added into the game even though it didn't fit into my suit or was needed.

    I was more stating that your little prank had nearly the same drop rate as anyother random item.
     
  35. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    From personal Experience After soloing about 400 Travesties.

    Drop Rate on Crimsons is close to 1 in 100.
    Drop Rate on Marks of the Travesty is a little Higher than that. Something close to 1 in 75.

    As to the "Renowned" Drops. I'd agree that they seem like absolute garbage, but they are probably closer to the drop rates of a crimson(1 in 100), You don't have to farm keys (plus), and you always get Imbuing Ingredients(Plus)

    I would like to see them increased at least a little bit up to maybe 1 in 50?

    Oh, Stygian Dragon. Easy as Cake (Not a Lie), if you want info PM me.
     
  36. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    If I kill something 40 times and never get anything, I'll probably just stop.
     
  37. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    No, then you wouldn't be able to complain that the 41st thing you killed didn't have anything either!
     
  38. I agree. There's no indication of progress, they need a guaranteed drop system, otherwise there's no incentive, people will lose interest and end up buying items from some guy who went with 30 people who all scrapped by.

    Even if it took 5000 Medusa for a guaranteed Slither it would be better than what we have now. You'd at least feel like you were getting somewhere, group or solo would all add up.
     
  39. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    The problem is the drops other than rare drops used to be useful and the rare drops was the bonus the golden ticket in the candy. But now that the candy is made with rat poisoning the only reason to aquire anything is the rare drops anything else is garbage. Thats the horrible system that is now at hand and before imbuing people were already complaining about garbage loot. So it will only get worst untill the regular loot the random properties ones gets on items are reworked to usefulness.
     
  40. All good points. I think another factor is that they dont seem to ever really look at the past artifact pools, they just add a new batch every so often. Treasure Maps still dropping Parragon artifacts are a prime example.
     
  41. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Not sure what you disagree about. Old peerless major drops are on the corpse, which means it's easier to get them w/ one person. New drops have % chance to pop per player, which means it's better to use more players. Pretty simple to figure out, and I played SA beta too ... so not sure what you're saying other than you expect to be able to solo everything in the game and get the top end rewards easier due to that "effort." In that case, you're going about getting the new items the wrong way, and I was trying to help point that out for you since I guess beta didn't help you figure out how the drops work.
     
  42. Galingree

    Galingree Journeyman
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    In my experience the drop rate of CCs is 1:50 in a group of 2 or more. It is less for solos. The problem with drop rates is that people overestimate how often they have done a peerless.
    BTW: The only item I have never received from Dreadhorn is "Dreadhorn's Heart". Has anyone ever seen this? Does it really exist?
     
  43. Not sure what you're not sure about because I stated it as plainly as it can be. Whether its in the corpse or in the pack makes no difference, corpses are instanced, and the drop rates are fixed. There isn't one % if its on the corpse and a different one for in pack. The drop rate for Replicas is 30%, it doesn't change to 70% if you use 40 people.

    I certainly don't expect to be able to solo everything in the game and get the top rewards due to the extra effort, and haven't said that anywhere, in fact I said the opposite that both group and solo ones should count towards a guaranteed drop of each reward. None of the drops were even active in beta until the last few days - not that that is remotely relavant to what I said - you said they were designed for groups. They weren't, they were designed to be easier than the existing ones, devs stated this during beta when the feedback they got said they were too easy.

    What I expect is if I have a character, the ability, and put in the effort that I will eventually get the reward I want. That is not an unreasonable expectation and the current system does not support it for anything outside of Doom and ToT.
     
  44. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Right, and replicas have nothing to do with peerless fights. Way to talk about something completely different, lol. I was talking about stygian abyss arties from SA peerless being better loot for groups. If you don't understand I guess you don't play group enough. And I have no problem with you soloing stuff, I just think it's funny how you are complaining about your effort when a group can get more loot from medusa or stygian. I mean, 50 minutes to get one set of keys for Medusa? Really? Hopefully you're not using your hands lol.
     
  45. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    Stygian Dragon and Medusa Seem to drop around 3-4 items per group (Biggest group you can take in is 10 players, and I've done LOTS and lots with 10 players.


    I'm not over exaggerating the travesties. I was doing on average 3 a day for 5 Months. At one point I had the eyes to prove it, but have been selling them on my vendor since 2007

    And Just out of Travesties Solo'd, not counting DH, Paroxy, Mel, I only got 4 crimsons in my entire ML Experience. And #Of Party members has no effect on Crimmy Drops from what I've seen, (Done plenty with my whole guild too)
     
  46. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    People will say im an idiot, but id really like to see drop rates lowered even. To the point where it would just be worthless to farm something to get an item. If you want this system, play wow. I hunt in parties just because its fun to do things with freinds, and solo something if i want a challenge.

    The loot of course needs to be part of the game, but should not be the Reason you play the game. Just my 2 cents.
     
  47. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Probably.
     
  48. It applies to both, I posted about Replicas because their drop rate is known, so it was easier to make the point that pack or corpse makes no difference. You may talk about whatever you like, yet don't see that I can do the same to illustrate the point.

    A group getting more overall drops is of no benefit to an individual, I want MY efforts to reward ME, there is nothing unreasonable in that.
     
  49. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    It doesn't apply to both. Here's an example of someone who knows what he's talking about:

    Since I never talked about champ spawns in this thread, only peerless, and you replied with the drop rate for replicas, it's pretty clear you cannot illustrate a point about group play peerless. Have fun soloing, and whining about all the time you've wasted.
     
  50. Having multiple people in the room getting the drop at the same time does not alter the fact that the drop rate is a set % for each person. Elden has said that there are 3-4 drops per group, I'm well aware of this I'm not disagreeing with it, however the quality OF those drops are no better FOR being grouped. There is the same % chance for each drop being nothing at all, the tooth, the petrified snake, the bow, the floor tile, the talisman and the statue. As there would be were those players to go in individually.

    As I am talking about all drops I can illustrate however I want. It makes no sense to snipe at someone about soloing when they have posted that they are doing both solo and group hunts.