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"That is not a herdable animal" ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Getting this message at 100.0 Herding.....

    Not all MOBs can be herded ?

    I hope that the reference to "animal" does not mean that only sheep, bulls and cows are the herdable ones because it would make the skill hardly usable.....
     
  2. Vexxed

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    you can only "Herd" something if you could normally Tame it... This also means that named versions of monsters ...Miasma / Thrasher / Pyre etc are not Herdable...

    On a side note having all the dragons in Destard following a stealth herder & sitting at the entrance to the dungeon is a REALLY effective way to block one of the 2 dungeon entrances for doing a Harry lol...
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, Daemons cannot be tamed and Balrons either, for example among a ton of many others.

    Does this mean that they cannot be herded either ?

    If so then the usefullness of herding is greatly dimished.

    I thought that all MOBs could be herded if one was 100.0 but it seems instead the use of this skill is extremely limited.
     
  4. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    All tamables can be herded.
     
  5. Drakes can be tamed.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Sorry wanted to say Daemons and Balrons............
     
  7. ahh my bad
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Unfortunately, the information is misleading.....

    From the source....

    It always mentions "animals".....

    Now, since tameables can be herded and many of them are monsters, not animals, one would be incline to think that the term "animals" is used in a generic sense meaning, any and all MOBs in the game with skill level as the only limiting factor to herding........

    Unfortunately, it is not the case and from what I seem to understand, the usefullness of the skill is severly limited to only a handfulll of targets.

    Quite unfortunate, a wider range of targetability could make an otherwise hardly used skill more used, IMHO......

    Perhaps it is time we see a 120 herding powerscroll that opens up herding ability to all other creatures ?
     
  10. Leave it to poops to break a skill that has never had any problems with it in all of the years it's been in the game.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Break it ?

    How so when I said open it up to more "herdables" with a brand new 120 powerscroll ?

    When we had most skills raised to 120 were they broken ?

    That's an improvement of a skill to make it more usefull and more played....
     
  12. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Yes with 120 herding I could leave a reaper forest outside my neighbours house.:coco:
     
  13. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    Just curious, what does MOBs actually mean? Never heard it in UO before I quit, I'm guessing its something taken from another game?
     
  14. sablestorm

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    What exactly did you want to herd that you are unable to herd? Herding, when included with original UO, always seemed like an assist skill for tamers so they wouldn't have to chase around animals, they could have the animals come to them for taming.

    In general, herding was thought to be useless but a bunch of creative players got together and found ways to have immense fun with the skill, although it is still limited. Nevertheless, I'm hopeful that I'll be able to take a herder into the new lands and her Fairy Dragons perhaps, leading them into battle as I do unicorns and ki rin in Ilshenar.

    What non-herdable creatures did you want to herd popps?
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Industry term for monsters.

    Lots of industry-wide jargon or jargon from other games has been contaminating UO of late.

    Mobs. Toons.

    -Galen's player
     
  16. sablestorm

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    You could roleplay an Ent herding Huorns. :D
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Nothing special. As I said, Daemons and Balrons but also Blood Elementals, perhaps move a Poison Elemental who was annoying a spot I was interested in.

    Stuff like that....

    I really think the skill could be made more usefull opening it up to the other creatures via 120 powerscrolls......
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Bah, that is hardly feasible as herding only work in the limited area. Cannot herd anything through a Gate and moving around for long distances anything would be a pain.

    Besides, it can already be done though with Dragons, Drakes, Nightmares, etc. rather than reapers.

    I do not see the difference.....
     
  19. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    Old Dungeons & Dragons acronym meaning "Monster or Beast"
     
  20. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    or mobile...
     
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    The idea of being able to herd non-tamable creatures just sounds silly. I've always seen herding as temporarily taming a creature to tell it where to go. If you can't tame the thing why should you have any success at telling it where to go??
     
  22. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    I have up to four reapers spawning around my house. Why is it so unfeasible to herd them to my neighbour's?
    Herding poison eles lol.
     
  23. sablestorm

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    Well, that sort of thing requires the player skill of luring! Hiding is a great complementary skill for this.
     
  24. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Popps, you can herd anything which can be tamed, which, if you look at the tameables list on Stratics is actually quite a lot. And in the case of Ilshenar and overland spawns, you can move spawn quite long distances if you set your mind to it.

    If players could herd non tameable mobs you would find herding became the griefer's friend so no, I don't think it's a bad thing that tameables are all you can herd. Herding is still a great fun skill and exceptionally useful for a tamer who uses it creatively, it just won't let you part every spawn and arrange it to your own design.

    But...you don't need herding to move spawn around,, a precast invis and a bit of running with spawn behind you and the same thing can be achieved. So you can do what you want to, but herding isn't the correct skill to use on daemons etc.

    Wenchy
     
  25. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Try reading the herding guide on uo.stratics.

    http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30661

    We have a whole site full of information which we have spent the past 5 months working on to try to bring it up to date. I guess we could stop bothering and just go play the game if no one bothers to read what we've written.
     
  26. sablestorm

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    Petra! You need a bit about recalling and herding! If you have a rune marked on the same subserver and recall to this location, the herd will run to your new location (unless something blocks them). So lets say you were to herd a group of Skittering Hoppers, guide them to the east entrance of Luna, then recall to the west entrance, they'd run in a straight line through the bank area to reunite with their herder.

    Also, you can mention that area peacing unherds creatures.
     
  27. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    hehe I didn't know that! Which is why it's not in the guide of course. I've never used recall over distances as short as that.
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Herding can be used regardless from taming, like a standalong skill of its own so, there really is no need to tie it to tameables.

    Besides, in a fantasy game like UO there is plenty things that not necessarily may follow a real life logic.

    Herding can have its uses besides and beyond taming. Only needs to be expanded to other creatures perhaps through the use of 120 powerscrolls.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, usually I turn to Stratics as my information source but I have noticed that when I do that, often I get other posters then point me to UO.COM PlayerGuide......

    And if I go to the PlayerGuide, I get pointed at Stratics.......

    It does can get confusing.......
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    How unfortunate. That would be very cool and usefull............

    Herding could be the poor player helping hand. It is easy for uber fitted players to deal with spawns and drag around what they want with low risks thanking to their uber suits, cast super fast using their high mods items and so forth.

    Just as an example, a 1/3 ring with 10 LRC was going 1,500,000 gp and considered as cheap........

    Poor players who do not have all that could rely on their skill, herding, and do what other players do with items and wealth using instead the skill........

    As I said, herding could be a poor player helping hand to better deal with spawns.

    Unfortunately, my impression is that this game revolves too much around the "Haves" rather than the "Have Nots".........
     
  31. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I'm gonna go with YAY! uber suits of armor.

    If you can get to 100 herding you can make any amount of gold you want to. It takes dedication, and focus to get to 100 herding, and that's all it takes to make gold. Not even that really. You can make any amount of gold you want just killing rotting corpses. They have around 1k each, and they consta-spawn in several places. Plus, they are just so dumb. (Not that rotting corpses are a good way to earn gold. It's just an easy way for people with bad equipment)
     
  32. sablestorm

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    One thing to remember Popps, is that if you herd an aggressive creature, like a dragon, it will go unherded once it targets you to eat you. The same would go were they to implement non-tameable herds like you want. The only way to really herd aggressive creatuers is to stealth-herd them but even then the herd behind you will occasionally reveal you.
     
  33. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is ok, occasionally.

    But the important part would be having more options to herd and not having them limited to tameables only.....
     
  34. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    So, you think you should be able to walk up to creatures like daemons, poke it with a herding stick and expect it to obey you? Yeah this is a fantasy game, but come on, even in fantasy I don't think creatures like elementals, daemons, etc would obey someone poking them with a herding stick. On the contrary, they would mock the herder and destroy them for insulting their intelligence!

    You want to deal with these creatures, have them ignore you or whatever, get yourself the barding skill.
     
  35. Fink

    Fink Guest

    You waited until GM to verify this? :bored:

    An "animal" is anything tameable, the type of creature that actually moves in herds.

    The only instance where you can herd something that can't be tamed is at champ spawns with ordinarily tameable creatures; ki-rin, dire wolves, dragons, etc.

    The only instance were you can't herd something that can be tamed is the fire steed. You can attempt it but you will never succeed. This is likely a bug as you can herd cu sidhes at 60 skill, and taming difficulty seems to dictate herding difficulty. By this scale, fire steeds should be herdable at some level eventually.

    No thanks, quite happy with Herding being a normal skill.

    Not every skill should need to be pushed to 120%, it's just ridiculous. Besides which, they'll probably never allow herding of peerless, paragons and so forth. I'd rather be able to herd things through a gate, but this would likely not be allowed either for reasons which should be obvious. Perhaps some day they'll let us herd non-aggressive creatures through gates.


    Well the line of logic is you can only herd something that travels in herds. Seems pretty solid to me, even in a fantasy setting. There have to be some basic rules for any setting to function, some constraints to work within. That's basic storytelling.

    If 120 Herding gave the ability to herd any mob, why wouldn't 120 Taming give the ability to tame anything also? Tamed Chief Paroxysmus, anyone?

    Petra: Along with peacemaking, you might want to include confusion blast potions as a mass-release method. I'll grab all my notes and send them onto you.
     
  36. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The barding skill only peace them, provokes them or discords them.

    It does nothing in regards to getting them moved.

    That is what the Herding skill does.......

    I still remember the nice tale of the "The Pied Piper of Hamelin".........

    It seems in a fantasy tale it is not that incredible to imagine a human finding a way to get creatures to follow somewhere else.......

    Mice, Daemons, Elementals........... they can all be subject, in a fantasy world, to humans or elves or gargoyles hypnotic powers to lure them elsewhere.......

    I see no problem at all with herding be capable of expanding its effects beyond tameables in this game.
     
  37. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I am constantly amazed at the things you find to complain about popps.
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Really ?

    Last I knew is that Nightmares, Ki-Rins, White Wyrms, Warhorses, Fire Beetles and others spawned all alone, certainly not in "herds".......

    Yet, being tameables, they are herdable. Does not seem to be much logic, does it ?



    Well, I do not think herding and taming can really be compared. All herding does is move for a short while a MOBs, And, it is possible that the MOB revolts against the herder...

    A tamed pet becomes a weapon to be used, trained up at the tamer's free will.
    Quite a whole world of difference........

    Nonetheless, how about not anything Herdable but a compromise to stop, say, at Balrons ?
     
  39. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    You are talking about old Enticement skill here, not herding.
     
  40. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    QFT.
     
  41. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, since enticement is no longer, what we have left is herding.....

    The bottom line is, a skill that anyone can use, even when poor, to move annoying MOBs out of a place where they are not wanted....

    Wealthy players in uber suits just get MOBs to follow them without caring much about being hit or cast on since their uber suits protect them for the most part. Poor players are not as lucky and, as I said, herding if expanded beyond tameables could be that helping hand to poor players to do what uber fitted and wealthy players can do with hardly any risk, thanking to their outfits and mods.
     
  42. T'Challa

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    You don't want herding. You want a skill that does not exist in UO, called "Charm"
     
  43. Llams Anit

    Llams Anit Guest

    Yea like idiot proofing soul stones
     
  44. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Just because something spawns alone, doesn't mean they don't herd. Normally solitary creatures can be herded, polar bears being an example.

    Nightmares and warhorses are equine, a herd animal.
    Wyrms/dragons are known to flock, it's called a weyr.
    Fire Beetles I would imagine are a hive animal, like blue beetles.

    As for Ki-Rin..

    [​IMG]

    I'd say that's more than one ki-rin there.

    I don't get your point in trying to debunk these things. Do you want these removed from the herdable list? I thought you wanted more herdables.

    nb: Sorry if I come across as abrasive, I don't mean to be. I just find it irksome when people grind up a skill without researching it and, 2 seconds after they GM it, they find it "sucks" & they come on the forums telling everyone how the skill should be mapped around their own expectations. Nevermind that people have been enjoying the skill as it stands since day one.

    If it's not what you want, just throw it on a soulstone fragment and move on.
     
  45. Llams Anit

    Llams Anit Guest

    But he won't because they spawn too fast for him to loot thus leaving him poor and having no sense when using a soul stone
     
  46. EgoSum

    EgoSum Guest

    Herding is a skill of limited, but still potent, and most importantly fun use, there's absolutely no need to change it to make it ungodly powerful. It's great to use in Destard, good way to kill people in pvp. And let's not forget the ability to surround yourself in a protective shield of animals. There are plenty of truly worthless skills in the game to complain about, no need to bother complaining about herding.
     
  47. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Fink, ever led that herd to the harpies' nest? Nifty way to get feathers. You will have trouble keeping up with the corpses to loot.
     
  48. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Ja, that's where I was headed :)
     
  49. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    For crying out loud, Popps. Would you please go try some stuff on Test Center before you come on here full of just flat out WRONG information.

    I have peace tamers on a number of shards that I started out with 1000 gold and skills of 50 taming and 50 magery. Didn't buy gold. Didn't buy a soulstone. Worked them up from that base to where they are today. A couple of them have just barely passed GM musicianship and peacemaking and have used 115 power scrolls in taming, lore, vet, musicianship and a +10 or maybe a +15 stat scroll, all purchased with gold they made from killing stuff with first a pair of unicorns, then a pair of nightmares, and then finally a greater dragon tamed using honor skill worked up on all manner of spawn that could be killed by a pair of unicorns or nightmares. Their LRC suits are pure junk purchased from any vendor I could find selling LRC and if they're lucky one or two resists might be in the low 60s. The rest of the resists are in the 40s and 50s. They might have one of the invasion spellbooks or they have a modded spellbook bought for cheap from a player vendor. Maybe they have a boomstick and maybe they don't....depends on what I could scrounge up in the LRC department.

    Guess what? These characters with their piddly less than 110 music and 110 peacemaking skills do JUST FINE pulling something out of a big crowd in Destard, and not even using a super slayer musical instrument. They're usually using some 22 gp tambourine purchased from an NPC carpenter.

    What they do is run around in Destard when it isn't occupied by other people killing stuff and area peace when they come to a GD. Inviz. Area peace and inviz again if revealed. While invizzed, lore the GD. If it's not worth taming, put it's bar over to the top left side of the screen and move on to lore the next one. If one of the GDs is worth taming, then it's time to drag it to a quiet area of the dungeon.

    Area peace. Go into war mode. Tap on the GD's life bar to annoy it and make it start following. Start moving in the direction of the quiet spot. Area peace again if a crowd is encountered or the GD's spells are starting to hit a little too hard. Tap it's bar and keep moving. Rinse and repeat until the quiet area is reached.

    While the GD is area peaced, it doesn't hit quite as hard as normal. Still have to be ready to cure and heal, but I've done it countless times with only a mishap or two. It just takes using your brain a bit to do a couple of things:

    (1) Make sure your suit isn't truly pathetic. Resists in the 40s and 50s works well enough and probably won't cost more than a couple hundred thousand gold to put together.

    (2) Make sure your musical instrument has sufficient charges on it (200+) to get the job done.

    (3) Make sure magery skill is adequate to pull off inviz spell reliably (i.e., AT LEAST in the mid-80s, anything lower is a bit iffy); music and peace skills are adequate (104+); and taming and lore skills are adequate (110+).

    (4) Know your macros like the back of your hand.

    (5) Figure out the route you're going to take ahead of time and, obviously, don't pick a route that's full of obnoxious spawn that you'll never get through.

    (6) Make sure your quiet spot is EMPTY before you start heading in that direction or that your character is capable of killing the spawn in it while towing a mildly tranquilized GD.

    The screen shot below is my peace tamer on Europa. Yeah, the lag's a killer since I live in the western U.S. But she's got pets she tamed herself, including a greater dragon. It isn't the most awesome specimen out there, but SHE tamed it, not someone else. You can also see from the screen shot her suit's pretty pathetic and her skills are pretty low too. She's got about 300k gold in the bank. On that shard I have a whopping 1.6 million gold stored on all my characters (a macer, a swordswoman, a stealth mage with lockpicking, a new bard/miner/LJ/fisher, an old LJ/carpenter/tinker I started years ago before I decided to do mining and LJ on the same character, and an old blacksmith/tailor/miner in the same boat, a scribe, and the peace tamer). So no, it does NOT take having characters with uber skills and leet gear and an 11 year-old account to learn how to safely pull spawn, kill it, and loot. It just takes a brain, common sense, and some patience.

    The second screen shot is my LS tamer. She's still in the works as well but has three GDs in the stable that she tamed herself with her low-level skills and crummy suit.

    The third screen shot is my Yamato tamer. Also still very much in the works but she has four GDs in the stable that she tamed herself with her low-level skills and crummy suit. And like on Europa, lag makes playing extra-thrilling.

    The fourth screen shot is one of my tamers on Oceania. She's been around a bit longer but her skills are still not maxed out yet either. She's tamed a number of GDs for herself and another tamer I have on the shard. Notice her suit isn't all that fantastic either and lag on Oceania makes hunting a very hair-raising experience.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  50. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I don't know from where comes this idea that Herding is a poor person's skill anyway.. my shepherds are both loaded.