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The #1 reason why i think new player cant start this game

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Rowdydude, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. Rowdydude

    Rowdydude Guest

    My understanding is that Stratics is the official site for player info.

    Went to look up SNOOPING last FAQ update 2003 that is 9 year ago

    if nothing has changed at least change the date how confident can someone be that the information they are getting is accurate if it is 9 years old
     
  2. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Stratics is updated by the players.
    Apparently the last time I player contributed information on Snooping was a while ago.
    If you are unhappy about this, please feel free to contribute a write up of some sort.

    In the mean time the only "official" site for player information is Mythic Entertainment | Ultima Online | Play the 14-Day Free Trial!
    The rest of the fansites survive on player contributions. They get no "official" information written up from anyone at EA/Mythic or Ultima Online.
     
  3. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    Uoguide.com is really the best resource.. Stratics is for the forums, like if you have a problem/question, you post it here.
     
  4. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Pretty Confident since many of us have worked the skill, as to changing the date, why? If the information in the guide hasn't changed then there is no point in changing the date, it provides a reference point for those who may be interested in investigating a new method. If you saw it say "July, 2012" you'd think it was the latest information and have no reason to submit new information.

    ***Edit***
    If you want a good method though, I'll make this as BASIC as possible.
    Code:
    10: Travel to Felucca Britan
    20: Snoop NPCs
    30: GOTO 20
    Follow that and you'll be able to GM Snooping..
     
    #4 Nexus, Jul 27, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
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  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    lol
     
  6. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I'm not sure where you were looking, but the page on Snooping on our main site is here:

    UO Stratics *New* | Snooping

    Last modified: March 30, 2011

    If you want to find the most recent information, use the custom google on the site, not the browser's general google.
     
    #6 Petra Fyde, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  7. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Stratics is mostly updated by me, with the help and support of my team. Our playguide is at
    UO Stratics *New*
    . We've worked damned hard to try to make sure the playguide pages accurate and current. I can't tell you how hurtful it is to read threads like this one. I can't even find this 2003 FAQ that the OP is referring to.
     
    #7 Petra Fyde, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Sorry. I didn't even bother to check to verify the OP's information. I just get annoyed when people post that anything is out of date/wrong with Stratics information on UO, Instead of contacting you and getting it corrected (if it's wrong in the first place)
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    You and me both - especially me, when I KNOW our info is upto date, I put in a lot of effort to make sure it was, and some more into ensuring that it was properly searchable. Only people don't use the site's search facilities, they'd rather just use their browser's google and get a confusion of new/old and freeshard info (which more often than not isn't valid in the legit game because those shards are customized).
     
  10. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Did he just give snooping instructions in Basic?
     
  11. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Yes, Yes I did.

     
  12. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    That he did. :)

    But he left out the likely:
    21 If spotted by a pker
    22 Get pked by pker
    23 Get danced over by the gloating pker
    24 Hear how macho, manly, and awesome the pker is, heard from the pker himself
    25 Get looted dry by the pker
    26 Get danced over by the gloating pker
    27 Hear how macho, manly, and awesome the pker is, heard from the pker himself
    28 Repeat the above until one gets bored with the routine

    Got this routine drilled into my brain back in my early years of playing UO. <chuckle>
     
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  13. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Snooping itself isn't a criminal act so seeing a PKer, is easy to handle just hit that "Guards" hot key, that is if you are in a Guarded City.
     
  14. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
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    Or you can just replace NPC with Guildmate in Trammel :)
     
  15. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Trust me on this, Stratics isn't the problem with new players not wanting to stay in the game.

    When I came onboard, there were dozens of groups eagerly waiting to help show you, answer you're questions, fix you up with some mid-level armor or weapon, etc etc. You could also just ask the majority of people you ran into questions, in fact, some say General Chat is good for this...if they could get any answer besides "get lost noob" or "any noob knows that answer" or , well, you get the drift.
    Now when a new players starts (not all, but most times, from what i gather from em) no one has time to take from their farming or banksitting...they just toss 10 mil in checks at em and tell em to go buy what they need.

    When I started, people would take you hunting, even if it was a bit boring for them to fight the level mobs I needed to fight, just because it was the thing to do. Now, you can get taken hunting, but no one wants to teach you how to gain skills in despise and stuff, they want to take you spawning and stuff you just arent ready for. Or else they get you a golem and say go for it...call us when your GM.

    Ive seen some churn, new players come in, stay a brief period, and vanish. Most times, I honestly believe it is our fault for not retaining them.

    So instead of sending people to any website anywhere, work with them, teach them. And if you need help, ask in chat and at the banks. True, they are rare, but there are still people out there who care about the game and it's players. Players are people too :p
     
    #15 Uriah Heep, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  16. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    The main reason it is so hard for a new player to start in UO is the utter lack of a coherent NPE. The EC NPE is too basic and dumps you into the world at Sir Helper's mercy, and thus the mercy of a handful of quests that don't really tell you HOW to play - just to go do X till your fingers bleed.

    UO needs a complete, well-scripted NPE that walks a player through CREATING A CHARACTER (including skill combinations and stats), navigation, inventory/wearables, BANKS, PvM combat, etc. I'd suggest that a wisp be a new player's guide, one which follows the newb around and spouts useful information that only they can hear.


    IMHO, vets shouldn't be expected to cover for Mythic's epic myopic laziness. Sure they can help new players if they want to, even take them under their wing and mentor them, but it shouldn't be expected. Saying it is "our fault" as players is ridiculous.
     
    #16 Martyna Zmuir, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
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  17. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I'm not sure how you did it but you managed to find this: Please Read! Forum Info, FAQ and More! (UPDATED 5-15-03) | Page 2 | Stratics Forums which is actually a forum post, it can also be found here: UO Thief | The Thief Forum FAQ

    There is no mention of the skill snooping in the new playguide of the official website. Japanese website's playguide describes the skill but its in Japanese: Snooping - ultimaonline.jp (I still wonder why they don't translate that playguide). Stratics Snooping article (
    UO Stratics *New* | Snooping
    ) is not from 2011, it is moved to the new sub-domain in 2011. It is not too old though, updated in 2010. UOGuide Snooping article is updated in 2008 ( Snooping - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia ) and I guess that article is also used as a source on that stratics snooping article, repeating the same "Guard Wacked" text in capital letters and unfortunately both sites don't explain what it is to the new players. There is really nothing to update other than that.

    The burden of creating and updating a good playguide is on fan-site volunteers. Unfortunately, there are not many players who take their time to update these playguides. Petra pretty much updates stratics single handedly, at least recently, (see: miracle lady; a person who claims or is alleged to perform miracles) and uoguide has far too few users who edit the articles in order to update and/or improve them.

    However, for those who think we are not updated regularly or understaffed, I have some facts for you, posted below without any comments:
    • MyUO is "temporarily" offline since July 16th 2011. MyUO forums is closed on March 19th 2003 and redirected to UO Stratics, the given reason was to spend less time to moderate boards and more time on "effective communication".
    • The final newsletter on the current official website that is said to be "sent out periodically" is from November 2008. Ask the Devs section of the official website is virtually empty. The most recent developer answer on the Ask the Devs forum of UO Stratics is from January 2011.
    • A total of 179 Five on Fridays are posted out of 190 weeks between 2006 and 2009. Only 7 Five on Fridays are posted since then, out of 140 weeks. The most recent one is posted on January 28th 2011.
    • Both Warhammer Online and Dark Age of Camelot websites are redesigned recently. Neither website have "visible" links for Ultima Online or Mythic Entertaintment. Ultima Online official website have links for both games at the very top of the main page.
    • Ultima Online has lost 8 developers in the past year: Heather "DrummerGirl" Cerlan - Lead World Builder, Mark "Shade" Steelman - Game Designer, Bruce "Logrus" Bonnick - Engineer, Calvin "Uriah" Crowner - Producer, Billy "Axel" Teng - Engineer, Brian "Argyle" Sobodocha - Engineer, Derek "Supreem" Brinkmann - Lead Engineer and sadly J.P. "TheGrimmOmen" Harrod.
    • The traffic rank of uoherald.com is less than ultimaforever.com, a website of a yet to be released game launched less than a month ago.
     
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  18. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I wish there was a way for New Players to contact Oldtimers who are interested in helping new players. I tend to hunt low end monsters while foraging resources and am a Crafter. I would make a good hunting partner for them.
     
  19. Flagg

    Flagg Sage

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    * Enhanced client is what a complete newbie is most likely to try out first. It looks like 8 years old shareware game.
    * ....Which doesn't matter since Account managment and account creation is confusing horrible nightmare that turns out most people wanting to try or return anyway.
    * When EA looks at UO it sees a malformed old relative that needs to be locked in basement.
    No ads, no visibility. No return to UO campaigns, no "Well son, you tried WoW. Now see it where it all began, see where MEN ROAM RAAA!" ad campaigns.
    No attempts to bring the rather huge fanbase playing on free servers to OSI. No nothing. Just RA pouring 200 mil on most unimaginative WoW clone ever.
     
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  20. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Just find an AFK guildmate in Luna HAHAHAHA
    Make snooping macro.
    Log on tomorrow night.
    Turn on TNT and watch Falling Skies while mashing your snoop key over and over.

    There. I just wrote I guide. Should I submit it to Petra Fyde?
     
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    The only part stratics would play in not enough players being able to start this game is that not enough new players know about us or come here...
     
  22. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Amen!
    It is laziness and being cheap that BioWare expects existing players to take every new player in hand and show them the game, just like it's laziness and being cheap that BioWare expects fansites to fill in for a lack of a decent official site.

    If there are 30,000 - 40,000 players, BioWare/EA/Mythic makes millions in profit on UO since the UO team is so small.

    They had enough money to spend millions on Ultima forever for the past two and a half years.

    When Jeff was asked about providing an official site that had official functions like official forums, that every other MMORPG in the top 100 MMORPGs provides with the exception of UO and Dark Age of Camelot, he shrugged it off as not wanting to compete with the fansites. That said everything I needed to know about BioWare Mythic's attitude towards UO.

    Jeff, if you read this, it's not about competing with fansites.

    It's about providing things that new players are going to look for. Unless that new player is coming over from Dark Age of Camelot, that new player is going to expect an up-to-date website, official forums, and not Facebook, Twitter or a third party site.

    There were many dozens of fansites for Star Wars: The Old Republic before it launched, many with a lot more activity than UO Stratics and UO Forums combined. If BioWare had said that they weren't going to offer much of an official site or official forums because they didn't want to compete with the fansites, people would have questioned the sanity and intelligence of BioWare management.
     
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  23. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    UO has an in-game messaging system, they just don't use it for player-to-player mail/messages.

    Which is a shame, because that is something that new players will expect, assuming they have played one of the majority of other MMORPGs out there.
     
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  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    In game I stay tuned in to the 'help' channel and have quite often been able to help players with information. Not too many new players, I'll admit, but quite a lot of returners. There's pretty much always a number of other vets hanging out in there doing the same thing. It's also a good way of avoiding this type of player too :D :

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    In my opinion, the reasons why UO doesn't have many players is:
    1) Marketing
    2) Out-of-date UI (it's good when you're used to it, but VERY hard to get into from a modern gaming mindset - I got to experience this when I came back to UO after years, the whole UI just feels as if it is working against you, and it is exactly this I hear from people I tried to bring to UO
    3) Lack of clear goals and lack, lack of rewards for achieving goals, lack of information on how to play/progress/whatever. People expect feedback when they do something 'right' such as gaining a level, or finding a weapon with a purple color. UO is very vague in communicating rewards, the only thing that communicates rewards obviously is displaying the 0.1 skillgains. It's not enough for a modern gamer mindset that has been spoilt by Diablo and Farmville type rewards where every few clicks gets you a cookie, basically. People in general are totally not accustomed to a sandbox game anymore, all they care about is progression and the system giving them cookies.
    4) Subscription fee. IMO the best solution is to make a free to play account version, which can't place houses, doesn't get race bonus and can only play human, can't use "requires expansion X"-items, can't get colored BODs etc, and doesn't benefit from skills over say, 80.

    What I suggest they should do:
    1) Finish polishing the EC interface and even redo some annoying aspects completely (for example, monster selection, half of the time you hover over pixels belonging to a monster or corpse, it won't highlight)
    2) Basic quests and rewards extending the new player experience. "Do you want to be a warrior or mage?" "mage" -> Gain 5 magery points for a total of 55 by killing the monsters HERE (give rune) and come back for your reward -> Get fancypants completion screen with rewards and which details the benefits of your new magery total and suggests what monsters to go kill next -> Get quest for 60 magery, repeat all the way to 80/90.
    3) Implement the free to play version as described above
    4) Market the crap out of it

    I also think Crafting is totally inaccessible now, in the old days, anyone that could mine and craft a weapon exceptionally could contribute to the economy, but now you need 120 blacksmith/tailor + 100 arms lore + 120 imbuing to produce anything worth selling. Need more things like POFs that are an exception to this rule. And I think that tying Reforging to Imbuing skill was a big mistake that should be corrected.
     
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  26. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I'm just going to throw this one out there: if you need an FAQ for snooping, you're doing something wrong. Other than 8x8, I'm not sure if there's ever been a more "advanced" way to train snooping since 1997. Understand the concern over a 2003 stamp, but I'm thinking a new player should be able to handle snooping since the skill is fairly literal.
     
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  27. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Stratics and UOGuide often have very similar information, it's not that one copies from the other, it's that we both have the same basic root source, UO publish notes. While I updated the guide in 2010, I only updated those parts that had changed, the bulk of the text is from a much older document.
     
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  28. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Nimuaq, why don't you write some guides for us . You seem to know everything so well. And after you done can you show it to us so we can copy it for Stratics like you claim we do. *sarcasm*
     
  29. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    If Petra thought that I'm claiming (as you say) that stratics copies guides from uoguide, she would have replied me with a different tone. Using an article as a source does not mean copying and I only mentioned that to point out neither guide explains what a specific term (which is in title case and uoguide uses title case for internal links, so that's why I thought it might be used as a source while it can very well be the other way around ) means.

    I'm glad Petra, as sensitive as she is on this subject, didn't take it the way you did. We often share information with each other related to the newly released content. We also know that both sites share a lot of common content (for using the same authors or references) and they also have some content directly taken from each other by users who copied content with good faith to share it with the community. We also link to each other when an article is better written on the other site, like uoguide's Runic Re-forging and Plants and Seed articles directing the readers to stratics' guides.

    I already see myself as a member of the stratics community, I don't write any guides or update content in stratics since uoguide is even more understaffed. However, I do add content to stratics forums, a good example is the information here which is already on stratics and can be added to any stratics guide: Scalis | Stratics Forums


    But despite your comment, I don't take it as a sarcasm, so sure Frarc, here're all my 9,222 edits on uoguide since 2010, do you need any specific article?

    Special:Contributions - Nimuaq - UOGuide


    some recent ones:
    The Awakening - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    The Void Pool - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Covetous Void Pool reward - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Covetous - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Lava Proof Hook - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    and these articles are some of the ones I'm most proud of:
    Artifacts (Stygian Abyss) - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Artifacts (High Seas) - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Message in a Bottle - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    In the Shadow of Virtue - Rise of the Bane Chosen - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    In the Shadow of Virtue - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Journey to the Athenaeum Isle - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Ritual - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Professional Fisher Quest - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Fishing - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Magic Fish Buff - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Dragon Barding Deed - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Gathering of Evidence - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Museum of Wonders - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Gothic - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    Rustic - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    Galen also contributed largely to the event related articles, The Awakening and In the Shadow of Virtue, by adding historical information and chapter intro texts. These articles are from 2008 which I updated recently:
    New Player Guide - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia (4 chapters, this actually took a week to update and still not fully finished. there are many authors contributed to this guide.)
    Item Sets - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia (all of the item sets in the game with screenshots)


    I'm sure I'm missing some of the articles I worked really hard for but if the content is added after 2010, there is a good chance it is added by me (so I also want to apologize if there are missing or out dated content, I'm just no superman). I test every publish and add the guides and update the existing articles before the publish is released to the production shards, the very same things Petra does after every publish. I also update the news section, archive older news, add uo related videos, post a new poll, etc. I guess that's why you got the impression that I know everything so well from my posts, which I (or any other player) simply can't.

    Nearly all staff members of uoguide are stratics users, we have several links for stratics on our news section and news archives, so much that I recently had to update all the broken stratics forums links as a result of the change in forum software. We worked together for the Sudiva fan fiction contest and having it hosted on Stratics was actually uoguide's suggestion to make it reach out to more players. In the past, I've been referred to as "working for the other side" and have been accused of being responsible for everything that is wrong with UO by some of the stratics mods, just because I update uoguide articles. It was quite discouraging but I still see myself as a member of the stratics community only because I know that Petra and the majority of the stratics staff members don't think the way the others do. I don't know what you personally think but I'm not your enemy, you don't need to feel an urge to defend stratics for something that doesn't exist or think that your efforts are not appreciated every time uoguide is mentioned. We all appreciate every single second you, Petra and stratics staff put into writing and updating guides and I neither claim you copy guides from other sites nor think I know everything.
     
    #29 Nimuaq, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
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  30. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    This isn't directed at anybody in particular, but at this point, UO's problems are not any fan sites or any information that may or may not be out of date (Seriously, you need help snooping?)

    The UO fan sites are the only bright spot in the UO community, and are helping to keep this game going even as the UO team shuns the community (all the while the Ultima Forever team is talking to just about anybody who asks).

    We have now reached a point where we are losing the best community rep on the UO team in a few months that we've had in a long time.

    We've got a UO team that believes secrecy is the best policy for a 15 year old game, which runs contrary to 99% of successful MMORPGs out there.

    We've got a UO team that has lost over half a dozen people in the last year, including the lead engineer, lead world builder, and now the lead artist.

    If it weren't for Stratics, UO Guide, UO Forums, UORPC, and some of the other sites, UO would be in much worse shape than it is.

    And just think, less than two months to the anniversary. Yeah, it's not a good time for UO.
     
    #30 Woodsman, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2012
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  31. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Ut ho.... someone got Petra's feathers in a bunch....... Stratics is the most up to date site I know... Uoguide is second in that right... Petra works her fingers off and still finds time to play! A very hard working lady. ;)
     
  32. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    I think this is even a problem for some existing players. Something I thought just a basic achievement system could accomplish. I won't rez the thread, but here was the discussion. Cirno had the right idea....

    Paths of Virtue - UO Achievements | Stratics Forums
     
    #32 Coldren, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  33. Joey Porter

    Joey Porter Guest

    I came back to the game about 10 months ago after a 10 year hiatus.

    Safe to say with all the changes I felt like a newbie.

    I think the game is much easier to start out on now then it was when it launched. There was no New Haven, getting gold was much harder and you pretty much had to run everywhere since there were very few gates. No item insurance, rune books did not exist, house keys could be stolen, reds everywhere, existing players were less likely to help, no LRC, laaaaaaaaagggggggggggg, very few online guides originally etc.

    Yes there is a steep learning curve due to the enormous amount of content but it is kind of like Othello, a few hours to learn, a lifetime to master.

    Make all newbs start in Haven
    Make it a large incentive for newbs to join a guild and a large Incentive for guilds to accept newbs

    Let them earn there way, build pride and have something to show for there efforts instead of giving everything away. I think that is a major part of the problem with the current game and real world. Catering to , and making everything super easy is not going to help anyone in the long run.

    I also think if you are respectful and decent you will find the majority of existing players willing to bend over backward to help out. I know I did, and I know I am willing to help others now as well.
     
    Ludes and Syrus like this.
  34. Druido2

    Druido2 Guest

    Everyone find it easy to point fingers at the developers, fan sites, and other 3rd party websites that have helped the. Community for so many years. However, I believe that the fault falls on players themselves. By this I don't mean all Players, but there are a few out there that do not helP at all. I have seen it and experienced it at some points in the game. For example, I tried to start new on the siege shard to experience life as it used to be. However, as soon as I got there a very famous red character was there to welcome me to the shard by Pking me right for the start and res killed me every time I tried to get back to my body. Apparently the whole shard knows him, and every one knows that he does this all the time. So, do you think that I want to continue playing on that shard with a j***a** like that? Also, do you think that I would recommend the game to My friends?????? Furthermore, as a new player you connect to the game and ask questions in general chat in order to find a purpose and get settle into the normal rhythm. But after an hour of spamming the same question, you quickly find out that you don't get answers or a helping hand that can take places and get you motivated to play the game. Also, when new players get lucky sometimes you get your answer in return from a j***a** spamming read stratics newb.......do you think this kind of attitude will entice new players to establish a long term relation with this game?????
     
    #34 Druido2, Jul 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2012