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The +20 Skill Cap should be given to everyone.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Shqiptar, Sep 29, 2011.

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  1. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    It puts new players at a disadvantage and the skill cap should be increased to 720 for everyone. Waiting four years is ridiculous.
     
  2. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    I disagree, its a nice reward for those who've been playing for a few years, its a bonus and thats it.
     
  3. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    THIS

    If you get it at the start there is one less incentive to play for years. The idea is that veteran players earn a reward for playing that they don't spend their reward points on
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Veteran rewards shouldn't give a big advantage. The skill cap increase does.

    Give it to everyone.
     
  5. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    20 extra points is not a huge advantage, I didn't suffer because of it before I earnt it.
     
  6. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    ^^^
     
  7. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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    I really don't believe this game is attracting a huge amount of players. Vets probably open more new accounts than anyone.

    With the game as it is now, if a new player opens an account, getting 20 extra points in 4 years isn't going to be the deal breaker for him which makes him keep the account open is it?

    People need to stop living in the past.
     
  8. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The +20 is given to everyone... at a rate of +5/year.
     
  9. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    By far the best argument for this that I've seen to date..
     
  10. BluDjinn

    BluDjinn Journeyman

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    The vet 20 point increase was added many years ago.

    I do think there is a need for change.

    Since the increase there have been a lot of changes in game skills.

    Many skill caps ( a growing list it seems ) has been bumped up to 120.
    Also a bunch of new skills have been added many of which really require 2 skills to be effective.
    There has also been changes that make old useless skills necessary
    (i.e. Arms lore ), or at least now useful and desirable.

    It is my opinion that everyone's skill cap should be raised.

    We could let vets still keep the 20 point advantage, but an allover increase would help prevent it from becoming a game changing advantage.

    Just imagine how much fun it would be trying out all the new combinations if they gave everyone a 100 cap increase.


    :stir:
     
  11. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    New players should be given 720 point cap. There is absolutly no need to give them another disadvantage. The game as a whole needs them to stay alive.
    20 skill points is a lot on some pvp or pvm templates, it basically makes them possible or not.
    We got enough stuff that gives veterans a big advantage, latest clean up britannia is a prime example.
    No need to make the gap larger.
     
  12. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    Just for everyone's info I have two accounts both are 4+ years old. This isn't about me it is about new players.

    The +20 skill DOES leave new players at a disadvantage. This is literally a fact. How big of an advantage is up for debate BUT there IS an advantage.

    Veteran rewards shouldn't be anything more than pixel crack (that isn't a jab as I enjoy pixel crack). A skill increase is a blatant advantage. The last thing we need is new players being turned off because people who played longer get a hard-cap increase while new players can't match it for four years.

    Incentive? What if WoW told it's players that they can only get to level 80 and every year they are allowed to level up one extra level until they hit 85 (I understand that a level in WoW is a bigger deal than 20 skill points so that may be a bad comparison). That is a bad business decision not a good incentive.
     
  13. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    The gap is not made larger by this reward, I didnt suffer on my templates due to the missing points. Obviously a few others didn't or 1) this would have come up previously 2) there are others that didnt suffer or they wouldnt be saying no in this very topic

    EDIT - the WoW example is a terrible one as every couple years they release a new expansion that increases the whole level cap by 10
     
  14. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    Your counter to my WoW example doesn't even make sense as ANYONE could buy the expansion at ANYTIME and up themselves to said level.

    Congratulations it didn't affect you too bad more people exist in the world other than you. The difference between 100/120 Bushido, Parry, Healing, Magery etc. IS a big difference.
     
  15. :lick: no ...

    the "20 points" sound like a LARGE discrepiancey ...
    'tain't though ...
    If it was a 100 point skill cap for all ages .. it would be 20%
    'tisn't though ... now is it ...

    At the "old" cap of 700, the 20 points over 4 years was only a ... well
    you do the math ... that being the weak point of the argument "for it"

    then factor in that THAT isn't "REALLY" the cap ... buffs and jewelry and all the rest ...
    I mean ... sure there is the 720 limit ...

    what is the actual max points mountable on a char? ...

    *dusts hands*
    that real % is not so large in reality ... is it? ... :danceb:

    I mean ... just a simple math drill oughta show it OFF quickly enough
    difference between 720 and 700?
    drop one zero
    difference between 72 and 70?
    *shrugs*
    do it (the math correctly)
    plug in the actual max points mountable

    IS THERE still a 20 point differential based solely on age?.?

    :scholar: show your work ... :lick:
     
  16. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I agree with the OP, for PVP at least, veterans already have a huge advantage in their years of experience.
     
  17. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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    I KNOW!
     
  18. I am a 7 year vet and I totally agree here. We need new players and this would be a good start. Plus if we decided to get new accounts it would be helpful for us as well.
     
  19. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    Thanks for offering nothing to the thread. To you it may not seem big. Yet, when someone wants that extra 20 (or 2) to bump a skill to legendary they can't. So far the arguments against allowing new players the 20 points amounts to selfishness. "You had to wait so should they".
     
  20. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    It makes sense because WoW always increase their overall level cap but they DONT HAVE skills. Its a completely different system

    No it didnt affect me in training my chars, i still went and did champ spawns, meli and all the other content and I still got loot from them. Christ I was at the ratman champ while I still had my young tag so the lack of 20 points really cant matter that much. Lets bare in mind back then we didnt have imbuing either. No acclerated skill gain quests either.

    The game has changed alot since then

    EDIT as Shqiptar's post wasnt there when i posted - my reasoning has nothing to do with "I had to wait so should they" my reasoning is that its a REWARD for playing for a period of time. Something other than some pixels - this game has enough pixel crack.
     
  21. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    UO is not WoW and WoW is not UO. Two different types of games. All gamers have to get that out of their head. Quit comparing any game to WoW. I have never played WoW or even touched it. It's just not my type of flavor of a game. I did love the WoW South Park episode though.

    Everybody is just waiting for that WoW killer to be made. If it's ever made then guess what? That game will be the next talked about game waiting for a new game to kill that game.

    UO is UO. Love it or hate it, this is UO. Are there features of other games that I would love to see in UO? Yes I would but the vet status and benefits isnt a game breaking deal. I agree with you that the +20 stat should be available but it's not going to happen. May as well since they change the game so much. It is just my opinion and truthfully UHaller's opinions don't matter much, we are the small compared to the majority who play the game. Unless we are the true majority and the rest are gold/resource/pet/house farming accounts. Until thats proven it's all a myth.
     
  22. Sorry puppy ... :thumbsup: that ain't MATH ...
    that is childish nuhuh trolling ...
    man up and show the math and then maybe we'll will discuss the numbers ...
     
  23. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    This literally describes most of your posts FYI. Wanna see math? Vets: 720 Noobs: 700... 720>700. Relative to Ultima Online where more skill points allows you to invest in skills and gain more power then having more skill points is a better thing. Barring new players from attaining these skill points based on time leaves them at a disadvantage.

    I really don't understand how you guys aren't getting my comparison. My own criticism of that comparison is the only legitimate one. IF ANY game let vets have a higher skill (level, power, etc.) cap it'd be a bad idea. How long you play the game should not determine how strong you can make your character. It is a silly poorly planned out reward.
     
  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    This is kind of a mute point, because with Imbuing you can go past the 700 or 720 skill cap with no problem. I have a tamer with 830 skill points. Any vet will gladly help any new player with some basic LRC and some jewels to get them started. And I dont really see any new player eating a bunch of 120 PS to need 720. 7XGM is all any new player needs.
     
  25. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Ah that rare glimpse of sense in Uhall

    EDIT - since Ned posted so quickly after some more sense and from a NEW PLAYER. Would ya look at that apparently its not just the vets
     
  26. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    As a new player, I would like to give my opinion....

    Heck no! Veterans need some sort of reward for their loyalty and that power boost is very appropriate.

    Besides, it's nothing you can't get from bracelets and rings on your favorite skills.
     
  27. Sargon

    Sargon Seasoned Veteran
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    I can see both sides of this argument, but does anyone really think the 20 point difference is causing new players to stay away? Even if the cap was changed, I doubt there would be any notable increase in the new player population.

    I have to admit that I kept a 2nd account open for several months just to get to the 48 month mark, when I otherwise would have canceled it, so the skill cap reward does encourage people to keep accounts open in some cases.
     
  28. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Hell no new players don't come to UO let alone stay for the chance of a reward.

    Gamers these days are spoiled by graphics continually improving in the BIG titles (COD, Battlefield, Crysis etc) by games like WoW where you can essentially level up following easy quest routes, when you hit the level cap - "oh look a nice new expansion and more levels"

    UO just isn't those sorts of games and like it or not it never will be a graphically intensive game because thats always been its selling point.
     
  29. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    Let's use my thief as an example.

    Fencing: 100 (90 Real)
    Tactics: 100
    Stealing: 120 (60 Real)
    Stealth 120 (60 real)
    Snooping: 100 (90 Real)
    Hiding: 100
    Ninjitsu: 120
    Meditation: 100

    If I was a first year player I would have to drop 20 points from one of my skills regardless of my + Skill Items. Meaning I have an advantage as a veteran player.

    In other words: 'it only makes sense if they agree with me. Otherwise they are wrong."
     
  30. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Let see for a start you have over the cap regardless of whether its 720 or not....

    As for quoting me and twisting it - grow up. I don't care if I'm wrong its called an opinion. My opinion being that he made sense with his reply because he said exactly what your example here just did and proved that the cap is easy to go over with items.

    Oh and FYI my main character has never in over 4 years hit the skill cap so its not that much of a dealbreaker clearly
     
  31. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    The new pvp changes allow for over a dozen competitive mage templates (not sure about dexxer) . A player with less than 720 skill points is limited to about 2.
     
  32. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Oh I understand trust me. You are not understanding. You just can't compare WoW to UO. WoW has it flaws to but people play it. If you think giving a +20 skill cap to a new players is going to bring in a million players go pitch it to EA. WoW and UO are not the same and can not be compared to argue a skill cap.

    Now of you want to say there is a huge disadvatage to new players trying to compete in todays UO. You also have good reasoning and sound arguments behind it without comparing WoW or any other game then that would be ok.

    All games have advantages for vet players that have worked, put in the time, to get to that higher level. New players have their area and have to work their way up just like the Vet did. The argument you will recieve even if Bioware would do it the vets would be QQ about it that they deserve something becaue they had to earn it. It's a losing battle either way for Bioware. They give to help new players then the vets will want more. It's safer for them to just keep the system in place.

    If you are going to quote me over WoW and UO even though I agreed with you about giving the +20 was kind of pointless. You forgot you had a supporter of your idea.
     
  33. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Guys I didn't start with a castle and a billion gold suit this is a disadvantage, give all new players castles and billion gold suits so it's faaaaaaaair
     
  34. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Could you expand this dribble please? This wide ranging statement followed with not a single bit of information isn't helping.

    120 Spellcasting skill
    120 support casting skill
    120 med
    120 resist
    120 wrestling(or not even if you have magery and -20 weapon)

    So this is a competitive mage temp clearly at 480 skill and could be up to 600 with still 100 points left to something like ninja or inscribe. Every mage temp is some variation of this but 20 points makes no amazing difference.
     
  35. EricVT

    EricVT Adventurer
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    If the extra 20 points isn't a big deal like some say then there should be no issue with giving it to everyone. It's no advantage is it?
     
  36. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    I started in 99 so makes no dif to me but i will say this I had a guild mate quite and he gave his acc away a year later came back for about 15 months and quite again he told me it was lame he had to wait to get an ethy until 2 and most of all having to wait 4 years to get the extra 20 points. all he did was pvp .he will never be back this is for sure. true story take it for what its worth..

    I for 1 also did not agree to the stat increase for AoS players only was very unfair imho

    on this topic I vote to cut the time in half at least like maybe 1st year 10 points second year 10 points. I really dont care if they get it all at 6 months and I challenge those that say its no big deal to drop the extra points then from their template and never use those points use ring/brac or imbue it like you told others to... I didn't think so.

    OT I feel we should be-able to have 750 points haha...
     
  37. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    I started playing this game in January. Not a returning player, but a brand spanking new player. After 4 months I started a second account -also a new account. The 20 point advantage has cropped up a time or two when discussing template possibilities with my guild.

    There are certain templates that really lend themselves to that extra 20 points. Overall, however it has not been too much of an issue. I don't pvp, due to my own inexperience and my guild, but I would like to learn/practice.

    As I understand it, in pvp the biggest hindrance to pvp isn't the 20 points, but how much gold I can muster for a competitive suit/scrolls/equipment.

    For pvm I don't see that I am at any more disadvantage than a 4 year vet who just plays poorly.

    I have several common templates used for pvm that can do anything another identical character, with 20 extra skill points, can do .

    Having said all of this, It would be nice if I had the extra 20 points.

    If it isn't a big deal for me to have the 20 points, why keep them from me?

    difference between 720 and 700?
    drop one zero
    difference between 72 and 70?
    *shrugs*
     
  38. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    UO gets new players? since when?! i think its fine as it is, the only thing i feel should be changed is that the +5 per year keeps going, why did it stop after 4 years? the 14 year vets should get +70 skill
     
  39. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    As I've already stated my main char has never yet hit the skill limit - whether that was 700 or 720. I don't suffer when I go hunting. Sure I may be a little more powerful if I did get to the limit but generally the skills I need are at 100 or 110. Others are raising slowly as and when.

    I spent a heck of a long time at GM magery with the alchemist bauble to bump me up then after imbuing came in I had an incentive and during normal game play I pushed my magery upto 110 real skill.
     
  40. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Exactly. There is no disadvatage.

    The issue isnt that. You can have a new character. He can get all ubered up with the best armor, weps, have maxxed out skills and stat caps. Basically he can have anything that a vet can have.

    The underlying problem even with a new player with all the above stuff I just mentioned has to learn to play that character to it's max possabilties to compete. Giving them all the stuff isnt going to make that character be in god mode in the field.

    I have seen players with all the uber leet sauce items and get their butt whipped in PvE and PvP. It's the player behind the computer not the items, skill maxxed, and stat maxxed that makes the player.

    +20 is not going to hurt anybody but the vet will want some type of compensation if it is giving out freely. Now if they made it by a point system what you do in the game to gain the +20 skill cap it may help ease issues. It gets harder the higher you gain to achieve every 5 skill points to the cap. For every 5 points it gets harder and harder and more points are needed.

    EA could just put it on the cash shop and charge for it to simplify the issue. Now how much could they charge for it I hate to even fathom. Vet players paid 4 years to get it. Say 10 bones a month on average you are looking at $480 bones lol.
     
  41. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, let's give everyone the +20 skill cap. Also it is unfair for a select few people to ride around on Rideable Boura's, or for that matter ANY Ethy mount. All this unfairness in the game is beyond crazy. While we are at it let's also start everyone off with Three Billion gold.


    Q- Why should person X have Y when not everyone else does?

    A- Because they have invested more TIME and ENERGY and $$$$ into the game than you have.

    That holds true in UO just like it does in life.

    Don't like it?

    Go buy an older account for in game gold or however else you want..... Deal with what you have .... OR *waves bye* See ya.


    :talktothehand:
     
  42. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    It's a reward for years of dedication...

    It does NOT do that much.

    And NO it should NOT be changed.
     
  43. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    none of the Veteran rewards do much anyways - playing since tram opened, oh yeah, i'm just kicking butt on anything and everything - I'm so overpowered
    NOT
    Isn't most of it Deco? or a robe w/ what 1-2% (worthless).

    I'm not on the side that says vets should be punished by keeping them on practically the same level as an account that's only a couple years old, or less. 5 points here and there are barely noticeable - least there's few posts complaining about those that crossed over and got the new points and are now at an 'unfair advantage' to younger accounts in pvp/pvm.
     
  44. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Funny thing about our society by in large these days, NOBODY ever wants to "pay their dues". They want all the advantages {even PERCEIVED ones} of those that blazed the trail have, yet do not want to put the work, time or effort in to get it.

    It's sad really......
     
  45. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    There are so many factors that go into a good player including template selection, equipment selection, fighting experience, what template you are fighting against, connection speeds, macro key settings, player ability to time and use those settings accurately and the list goes on and on...

    Your implication that a new player is at a disadvantage simply due to a 20 skill point difference is what is ridiculous.
     
  46. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    After SWTOR launches, EA will announce its next 3D MMO, and debates like this wont matter anymore. :D
     
  47. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  48. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Are you guys seriously comparing things like castles and billions of gold to a vet reward?

    You guys can't be serious.
     
  49. Shqiptar

    Shqiptar Adventurer
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    Exactly. They don't know how to look at things logically. They are just pissed that someone wants to take away their little goody. A goody that gives the owner a clear advantage for 4 YEARS.
     
  50. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Ummmmm Excuse me but I have VERY few goodies, and nobody can take them away. And the little advantage that a WHOLE whopping 20 skill points gives is not something to expect on the outset. Put in your time or buy an account for in game gold or whatever.

    I would have no problem with them raising noob accounts 20 points off the get go, just raise the vets by 5 points a year for 4 years along with it. AGE has advantages, deal with it.

    I only compared the vet rewards to billions of gold etc because it never fails, there is always someone whining about not having X but someone that has played for years has it and they want it. Tired of folks in general {in game and out of game} wanting stuff handed to them they have not earned. You GET 700 skill points to start with, the +5 a year is a REWARD for staying each year, NOT a right.
     
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