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The Best And Worst Expansions Of UO

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Captn Norrington, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Greetings, I was thinking about how different expansions have affected UO in very different ways, and was wondering what everyone else thought. to avoid getting this thread locked, please try to stay away from the classic versus enhanced client war we've seen so many times. What do you think of as the best and worst expansions of UO?

    Personally, I think the best expansion so far has been either Stygian Abyss since it created Imbueing and the Abyss Dungeon, which is the most fun and diversified dungeon to me, or the one that created trammel, its name escapes me at the moment. For the worst expansion I'd have to say Age Of Shadows (AOS), due to it having so many glitches and issues when it was launched. Although I do live inside the luna walls, I believe the creation of Malas killed a lot of the fun of UO...people no longer had any reason to walk around the roads of trammel and felucca, or visit the different cities and towns...instead everyone simply flocked to luna bank and rented vendors around the city, severely decreasing the "community feeling" of the game.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Every expansion has had, for me, an upside and a downside. Overall the upsides have always outweighed the downs, and that's why I'm still here, still enjoying playing almost daily.
     
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  3. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    I liked AOS because I could finally have a big house! But yes, there were a lot of issues with it and the addition of Luna drastically reduced the viability of vendors anywhere else. AOS also gave us house customization, which I think is one of the most unique and addicting features that any MMO has even today.

    AOS, if I remember correctly, also gave us the beginning of the super complicated item property system we have today. Meh.

    I thought Third Dawn was awfully lackluster. It also began the practice of creating a second client and later abandoning it. First 3D, then KR... watch out, EC! (This is not a statement of opinion on the merits of any of these clients, all of which had/have their own selling points, but rather just pointing out the way they've been handled. Please don't turn this thread into a client war.) Third Dawn gave us Ilshenar, which didn't offer more housing at a time when it really would have helped, and which was initially unavailable to CC users.

    Blackthorn's Revenge was ugly and didn't feel like UO.

    Trammel was added with UO: Renaissance. (When they opened housing up on Trammel it was a nightmare! That expansion certainly wasn't without its issues!) I'm glad for Trammel because I can't PvP my way out of a wet paper bag and I'd say I'm probably in the majority on that given its popularity. While I'm sure PvP is fun for those who enjoy it, old Felucca was a den of grief and harassment for those of us whose preferred playstyles don't include randomly being murdered for no reason whatsoever. The way Felucca and Trammel are split now has its downsides, but overall I'd say UO:R and the addition of Trammel were great additions to the game.

    Here's a rundown of UO expansions: http://www.uoguide.com/Expansions

    Wow... Stygian Abyss was over four years ago...
     
  4. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Wow...I never realized there was a new expansion every 1-2 years , with exception of one that was 3 years....if it's already been 4 since stygian abyss ...seems we are due for a new expansion very soon.
     
    #4 Captn Norrington, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
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  5. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    For me, I think Mondain's Legacy (even with it's one glaring hole imo) was the best, because of the overall scope of it and what it brought to the game.

    A very close second for me is UO: Renaissance. I feel that if it wasn't for Trammel that UO would have had it's plug pulled years ago. I also wonder if Trammel had been there in the beginning or something similar, just how many more people would have stuck around and just how far UO would have gotten. Talk to the old devs and the numbers they relate about people quitting because of the non-consent PvP, just makes me wonder where UO would be today.
     
  6. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I don't think there will be another expansion as such. Expansions mean more lands to explore, we're spread too thin already. I think theme packs and boosters will probably be the plan now.
     
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  7. mspossi

    mspossi Journeyman
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    in my opinion, stygian is very good, however the gargoyles are currently being phased out.
     
  8. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    It was T2A for me. Not that it added much of anything new besides a landmass, but how the first expansion was implemented. This was around the time the FoA casted the Armageddon spell, which opened up passages to this "new mysterious land." Even when the Town Crier was still around, the fiction for the first few months involved sending an expedition to the lands to investigate (I think it eventually centered around Kahldun).

    Okie, off to work =/.
     
  9. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    While I've missed a lot of expansions...during my play time I'd say it was publish 16 that was the worst. Even moreso than the invention of Trammel. Publish 16 changed the way the game was played and almost eliminated the thief profession (even though many of us stuck around in hopes it would get better)...la
     
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  10. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tiers 1-4 I had mutliple accounts and looked forward to playing UO everyday
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tier 1: The Second Age, Mondain's Legacy (They didnt redefine UO but rather both of these embraced UO for what it was at the time and build opon it in a fun and exciting manor.)
    Tier 2: Samurai Empire, Stygian Abyss
    Tier 3: Age of Shadows (basically turned UO into Diablo Online with housing)
    Tier 4: Kingdom Reborn, High Seas (I had high hopes for both of these)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below this line is when I have stopped playing or have simply quit UO
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tier 5: Pubs Since SA: Redesigned dungeons, Multiple loot systems, Crafting, More hitpoints R better Monsters, Population free servers...(i have many more, but dont feel like turning this into a full-blown rant)
    Tier 6: Third Dawn, Lord Blackthorn's Revenge
    Tier 7: Renaissance
     
    #10 Lug, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Ok I'm Game...

    I'll say this each and every expansion has brought something I enjoyed... and something I HATED.

    Now I can't say anything bad about UO:R because well that's what I found on the shelves after finally getting my first PC. And I loved it! Though didn't much understand it.
    Third Dawn.... I loved all the moves I could do it was hilarious..... I never went to Illsh much ever. My internet sucked too bad for that! I liked how I could expand all the boxes in UO and organize! Hated that it was sooo laggy...
    Age of Shadows..... OMG I hated it. The only thing I liked was actually getting RID of some neighbors... and being able to custom my house..... Hated Doom...... And the land.... what a joke... still has almost NO wandering healers how many years later? Very little interest in overland spawn....... BORING!!!! I liked the housing that was it. Hated how it "SkaRewed" up armor and weapons making it a pain in my head.
    Mondains Legacy..... Now here was something I waited for for a long time! OMG I was happy I could FINALLY prove I was an elf!! However even this many years later I still think this expansion was UNDONE... Woodland elves need wood colored skin.... where the freak is my brown!?!?!? Seriously!?!? Much of the housing tiles are "cut" rather than looking "finished" ..... It's like they painted a skin on a plain blank wall and for a half wall they just cut it!?!? Looks like POOOP.... Has some of the best and worst art... Some of it would be very pretty if it was "finished".
    Samurai Empire... Nice concept and it has a good bit of overland spawn... something AoS is still severely lacking.... Don't really care for the Oriental style stuff but hey..... we have a LOT of them playing so I am glad for it... also gave some lovely housing tiles...... along with yet more "unfinished" sets. I think Mondains started a legacy of "minimalisticness" on the housing tiles. Liked the stealables.
    Kingdom Reborn wasn't really an expansion so to speak.... I hated what it did to many things ..... but I liked others... Wish they would have put more into it, because honestly I think it would have been better than the EC had they just stuck to their guns...... One thing I'll never understand why on earth do so many game companies rush stuff out the door and expect the players to love something half finished???????
    Styngian Abyss has been the most awesome of all expansions... I have loved almost everything about it.
    High Seas.... pushed out the door again WAY too soon ruining it for many but I still love it..... could still use some tweaks though..

    Now the 2 mini expansions.... I'm still fairly well boycotting..... still "unfinished" in my opinion... I don't want to pay for something that's half-A$$..... No floors and no doors and no rooftiles in something that is supposed to be a themed expansion of housing tiles????? WTF?????? Lame. The addition of the markets in New Magincia...... while "ok" they honestly should have put that **** outside britain..... Hell they could have put them anywhere outside britain around the fields there..... instead they leveled one of the most beautiful cities in the game and turned it into a trailerpark.... UGLY... that's what that is. I miss old Magincia. Hell I also miss one of the other most beautiful cities... Ver Lor Reg... which is now UGLY...... WTF did we need such a gigantic place for one mob for???????? Such a waste.
    To me the "ugly" factor has gone up significantly over the last few years. Ruined the Best dungeon for working skills by putting in that horrible thing is despise.... I said all along that deceit would have been the FAR better choice.... NO ONE goes there. Why they had to go and ruin the best dungeon is beyond me. The attempt at a remake of it sucks. Sometimes I just don't think the DEV's understand how we play the game and what we really do enjoy.
     
  12. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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  13. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Publish 16 also drastically changed bards, and the new system for bard skills at the time was absolutely terrible. My bard--who was also my thief and my favorite character to play--was pretty much a wasted slot after 16.

    We got pet bonding and rezzing and some nice tamer stuff... but Publish 16 was pretty much a slap in the face otherwise.

    I still can't understand the reasoning behind why they let 16 go the way it did. Back then OSI still had the official message boards at UO.com and people came out of the woodwork to oppose the changes when they were announced, but the devs didn't care. Publish 16 didn't just deal a brutal blow to gameplay; it also dealt a brutal blow to player confidence in the dev team.

    Nearly 12 years later and I still get mad thinking about it.
     
    #13 Riyana, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Ruined Tamers. Added pet slots and such and took away the ability of regular players to have a nightmare. Took away a Tamers Income.

    Oh and lets not forget it was also responsible for the stupid stable limits.
     
    #14 MalagAste, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  15. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    I really can't tell if serious or trolling. How is having 10 white wyrms as pets a good thing? How is having a regular person riding a nightmare a good thing (in regards to game mechanics, not graphics)? How is not being able to rez your pets a bad thing? How is not having pet summing a bad thing? Etc Etc.... Sure they changed tamers but it was really for the benefit of all play styles.
     
  16. Felonious Monk

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    I agree. We have plenty to build with and on. For me it's story arcs ,pvm,crafting and farming everything needed to do the former.
     
  17. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Worst:
    Samurai Empire - Nothing was tested for balance. Bushido and Ninjitsu came out as completely overpowered and took way too long to fix
    High Seas - Complete lack of content. Besides fishing what did this really bring? This was a glorified Publish which we had to pay for.

    Middle: Mondain's Legacy - Same problem as Samurai Empire as Spellweaving wasn't properly tested with Word of Death making PvP a joke. Elves were underwhelming as a race. Good content

    Best:
    Age of Shadows - Buggy release but overall helped bring UO into the modern era of MMO's
    Stygian Abyss - Tons of content (both PvM and PvP). Throwing came out as a dud originally, later fixed and made into something OP (Still pretty strong). Gargoyles were a good race addition. Imbuing made making suits easier (But lack of addressing old loot tables made imbuing better than 90% of any old content loot/arties)

    The Meh:
    LBR - Leftovers of the cancelled UO2
    Third Dawn - Ilshenar vastly underused
    Renaissance - Introduced Trammel, just a clone of Fel. Either you can view it as bad or good.
    The Second Age - Lost Lands vastly underused, only benefit from T2A is now champ spawns in Fel.
     
    #17 Promathia, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  18. Felonious Monk

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    In my opinion Mal is not a troll. Those are opinions that I can relate to. Using sentences like how is having 10 white wyrms a good thing seems as trollish as anything in Mals post. The rest of your post isn't nearly as exaggerated and much more grounded. Not trying bash you Speranza. Just my opinion, no worries......
     
  19. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Best- the initial release!! Period!
    Not so bad- Stygian Abyss (added hours of gameplay for many templates)
    A little worse- Sam Empire/Mondains Legacy (could have definitely done without these)
    By far the worst - Third dawn..the graphics were childish and horribly done.. Ilsh was useless and up till ToT I don't think I ever went there

    8th anniversary was the hey day I think..lots of players and a lot to do so in there was my favorite "era"

    Miss the old bucs PvP..remove the oddly placed server lines and bring it back please(not even sure this is possible)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Some people thought it was worth the cost just for the storage increase
     
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  21. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I'd say best is SA and worst is High Seas.
     
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  22. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Best: The Second Age

    Worst: Diablo, errr, I mean Age of Shadows
     
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  23. Dag Nabbit

    Dag Nabbit Seasoned Veteran

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    I am curious.What was the upside to AoS in your opinion.
     
  24. Felonious Monk

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    Those changes to barding really hit me hard and it was needed whether I liked it or not. My Bard at that time could go into any dungeon and provoke literally everything that spawned against its kind or any combination that served that one chr. I had 100 provoke fairly early on. People could recall in and all spawn would be busy and literally ignoring all players. Provoke,cross field and summon your choice. If PK's came in I could prov onto them and start casting. I had newb clothing and a newb instrument. Zero risk all reward in fel. Barding HAD to change. That and the fact I had become Bored of mastering the lower levels of all the virtue dungeon. It was unfair and unbalanced. If I could do it meant every body was close behind me in skill and tactics.
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    All expansions added new content which I have been very happy with.

    The biggest issue I had with any expansion, though, had to be UO:R. While it did ensure the longevity of UO, I felt like trammel being nothing more than a mirror image to be a very cheap move. I think they should have made a completely new landscape rather than just copying an existing one.
     
  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Custom housing initially, later I added chivalry to my warrior's template.
    Doom - although I didn't cross the ferry for quite some time after release.
    I admit the downside was the 'uber new combat system' that the developers of the time were so exited about. I still don't fully understand it and usually just go with 'best guess' when trying to decide what properties I need.
     
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  27. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I have to say, Age of Shadows really added ages of shadows to UO. Yes there was good thing too, I love customizing houses but the changes to items bekom an item nightmare.

    Of land added to UO, Malas did most damage, Luna ruined it for player towns with vendors, Umbra is ok, the hunting ground NE for umbra too but the rest of Malas is to big and useless. It's much better the way newer facets are balanced with spawn and house spots.

    New dungeon loot, Abyss and Imbuing really saved UO and we are on right way now, after Ages of Shadows
     
    #27 FrejaSP, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
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  28. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    BEST

    Honestly, the best expansion in my view had to be Stygian Abyss in ters of size and quality. The only downside that I really had for it was that the re-development of KR/EC was shunted aside to push through this expansion. However, seeing how faithfully Draconi and crew recreated areas from the Ultima Series and the quality of the quests when it release was very well done.

    WORST

    The worst in my opinion really can't be called an "expansion" by any real stretch of the word as much as it could be called the shoe-horning and rebranding of UO2 content to satisfy a contract (McFarlane) and that would be Lord Blackthorn's Revenge. It added NO land expansion as Ilshenar already existed, it simply allowed the 2d client into the area and opened up the center. The rest was simply shoehorning in defunct UO2 content and getting rid of extra Borgthorn dolls by forcing multi-account holders to purchase additional physical copies (at full retail) to upgrade. Requests for direct upgrade code sales were ignored.

    Some notes of other Expansions:

    T2A: Initially was proposed to have limited, controlled housing (at the time thought would be handled by Seers). Instead, a computer generated land was created on a 4 across, 7 down grid with uneven terrain that prevented housing from being available. As a result, players had to deal with overcrowded lands until UO:R

    UO:R: While the PvP/non-PvP asspect gets a lot of attention, really, there were two main mistakes made with UO:R. First of course was "It's not a mirror!" (yes... it is). Second isn't that they created a non-PvP ruleset, but that they implemented the ruleset split BACKWARDS forcing many player run establishments to uproot if they were fed up with PKs. Later on came the Trammel house rush which was a fouled up event all of its own.

    Third Dawn: It's biggest issue was that it was released FAR too early both in terms of the use of 3d architechture and in terms of having the client actually READY TO BE RELEASED (this of course will NOT be the last time). Released in the days of the Voodoo 3, converting UO to polygonal graphics was a good idea, but it was done several years too early to be stable, playable, and pleasing. In the end, it WAS playable, especially for larger monitors and gave the game some VERY useful features that were ported to the 2d client, but it did need to step aside for client progress.

    LBR: Noted above

    Age of Shadows: What people tend to overlook is that UO's subscription numbers topped out due to AOS as well as being able to build a house tile by tile from the ground up instead of being limited to a number of pre-fabricated designs. On the other hand, the Diablo-inspired item mod system was an unbalanced mess, and Malas was and remains a trailer park of a facet with Luna becoming the place you LOVE to HATE.

    Samurai Empire: Tokuno was a well created facet and Treasures a well loved event, however, the inclusion of Ninjas and Samurai did little to win over former UO players. The idea of the two skillsets/character types was thoroughly mocked outside of the game.

    Mondain's Legacy: Is it fair to say that Mondain's Legacy is one of scripting footstools and bows?

    Kingdom Reborn: Notable for its original vision of removing the tile-based system from UO. Unfortunately, this vision was set aside at some point during development in favor of the "2.5D" concept of retaining the tile based system and creating a mix of stop-motion sprites "projected onto polygons". Would end up suffering the same problems that the 3D client had in that it was forced out the door LONG before it should have and could not be refined sufficiently. Art style opinions aside, it boasted a higher quality resolution and many UI enhancements. It would later be retooled (and the high resolution enhancements LOST) into the Enhanced Client.

    Stygian Abyss: Noted above

    High Seas: A solid effort to utilize existing space. Better boats and boat movement being the big plus.
     
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  29. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Expansions don't necessarily mean new lands. You could have an expansion that redesigns an old one. Sure, that would mean some people who don't buy the expansion will have access to some of the new material, but I am sure you could pack it with enough stuff to make it worth buying.
     
  30. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Best:
    Age of Shadows, for introducing custom housing, chivalry and necromancy
    Third Dawn, because I actually loved the client (especially the large backpacks and skill-related UI features)
    Samurai Empire, because of the many new craftables and house tiles and nice-looking new land mass - really what I'd expect from an expansion

    Worst:
    Age of Shadows, for introducing diablo-style item properties, powerscrolls, malas and because it replaced all the original realistic 3D avatar artwork with terrible-looking new cartoony versions
    Kingdom Reborn, for introducing the client with the terrible smudgy item artwork and discontinuing the 3D client. I quit at this point and went to freeservers where I could continue playing the 3D client and only came back with the release of the enhanced client.
    Mondain's Legacy, because of elves and the untransparant quest system that just seemed hacked in there
     
    #30 Shakkara, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  31. WarderDragon

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    Objectively, the best would have been T2A. You want to give an old veteran tingles, just start a rumor about a T2A / Classic Shard. It's practically foreplay.

    As for me, I'm obviously in the minority here, but I personally liked Lord Blackthorne's Revenge. Granted nothing really came of it, I have always wanted to see Ultima maintain it's own branch of unique fantasy. The Ultima Series had elements of classical pulp fiction (Conan the Barbarian, Tarzan, Barsoom), classical horror (Vampires), futuristic, steampunk and clockwork elements (the Automatons), and even a little cosmic horror (there was a certain Lovecraftian element to the Guardian and the cults he inspired). Unfortunately, some peoples only exposure to classic high fantasy is limited to Lord of the Rings, and they pretty much cry foul when anything is introduced that doesn't mesh with their vision. I have roleplayed mad scientists, clockwork creatures, and various beings who have utilized and integrated Exodus-based technology (and the fiction surrounding it), and have enjoyed every minute of it.
     
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  32. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Worst - Well I cannot pin one specific expansion as the best or worse as adaptation had to adopted, To me the worst thing for UO was Publish 46, The PvP publish. What made it so bad is the conspiracy behind this publish. I will have to go in depth to explain everything.

    Publish 46 was suppose to be the collective results of input made by the PvP focus group, however this was not the case. The fact is most of the nerfs came from one person named Guildmule and implemented by the UO community leader Platinum I believe. Guildmule never PvPed in his life and was totally fixed on his vision to make UO a very Class like system. Guildmule and Platinum had some sort of relationship. The PvP Focus group was given access to the test center and the private forums on a Friday. Unfortunately there was no developer feedback, in fact the Focus Group had no input at all and rather were nothing more than spectators to these changes which over 90% disagreed with Guildmules vision (he was just a player and not an employee). What happened was things got heated and somehow the private emails between Guildmule and Platinum were leaked on the boards as well as here on stratics which showed the level of corruption and usury to the player base. By monday, the whole PvP community group was banned under the lie of breaking the NDA.

    So when you have a problem fitting in healing and resist on say a ninja or samurai, or the lack of points to put tactics on your tank mage, You can thank some nameless guy who doesn't even play this game anymore.
     
  33. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
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    What does this mean, "the gargoyles are being currently phased out"?
     
  34. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
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    Disclaimer: I've only been playing since 2007. For me, SA was the best expansion because it caused me to renew my account after I quit because I thought UO was taking up too much of my time. Being able to craft things yourself instead of relying on random loot drastically changed the game dynamics. Now UO takes up more of my time than before, and I've just given up trying to explain why to my wife, who fortunately is a master's degree student who studies at night while I play. I still have not bought High Seas simply because I find there are too many other things to do without it (and maybe I don't like water), although as Petra noted, I might if ever want more storage space, or if I finally get in the mood to knock off the L7 Tmaps I've been collecting.
     
  35. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The only expansion I disliked enough to say it wasn't very good would be Age of Shadows only because of the itemization changes, Although I do absolutely love my LRC nowadays.

    I'd rather point most of my dislikes to certain publishes rather than expansions TBH- here they are from UO-Guide:

    Publish 46 (pvp)

    Publish 77 (pvp/factions)

    Easily the two most hated publishes to UO.
     
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Like Petra I have seen good with the bad in every publish....
    Some publishes effected some players more then others and this is expected as we all do not play the game in the same way.
    I personally liked High Seas but thought it didnt go far enough.
    The little xpacs I feel would be their best bet as a major publish might not go over well and with the new addition to the teams work force things might be needing an ajustment period for feathers to settle down and the work flow to coaless to a working team effort.
     
  37. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Gargoyles have been replaced by 212 archers..I wonder when they fix them what the next flavor if the week will be..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  38. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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  39. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I have to agree, Pub 16 was very bad for the game too
     
  40. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Best was UOR (Renaissance) Created Tram and saved UO from certain death.
    Worst was AoS (Age of Shadows) also known as Age of **** Turned UO into an item based system that we are still paying for today.
     
  41. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    This we will never agree about :p
    I don't think splitting the land was the right way. I did rather see a system, where players and guilds could join a PvP system and make them self open to PvP vs others in the system. It would give them a little better drop from monsters and from resource spawn. You could easy have PvP'ers and non PvP'ers in same land as long the non PvP'ers only could fight warring enemies. The PvP'ers would have Fel rules between each others but could not attack the non PvP'ers. The non PvP'ers would have Trammel rules between each others and vs the PvP'ers.
    Splitting the lands destroyed a lot communities.
     
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  42. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Trammel wasn't just about segregating PvPers and non-PvPers. The other half of its necessity was to create more housing space. A lot of new players in 1999 quit because it was hard enough to place a small house.
     
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  43. mspossi

    mspossi Journeyman
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    well on my shard, (Europe) is very difficult you see a flying around; personally I was four, now only one mule.... was reduced after the DCI and HCI from 50% to 45%, I gave up my thowing.... I think the limit should be only for weapons,not gargoyles, and not general (archery for exemple)... one gargoyle can notequip this item.
     
  44. Vander Nars []R[]

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    Best AOS (changed the game for the better imo)
    Worst ML and SA(made the game worse by adding elfs and gars)
     
  45. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    You're both right... In hindsight, it could have been done FrejaSP's way and that would have been great I think... And they absolutely needed the space for housing, no question... If I had my way, they would have added new lands with new mobs, architecture, et al - and kept FrejaSP's concept of consensual PvP... That would have fixed everything.

    Oh well, hindsight is - after all - 20/20

    **Edit**: Now that I think about it, they could still do that - couldn't they? I mean, the consensual PvP everywhere part?
     
    #45 startle, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
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  46. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I believe they could still do it and I think they should :)
     
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  47. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Seems to me it would make things easier all around... No need for separate rule sets for Fel, or Siege and Mugen... Just make it consensual and be done with it.
     
  48. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    I'll keep it simple and state what I hated about each expansion:

    Ultima Online: Renaissance - Trammel. End of story. Absolute worst system implemented into this game. Especially since it cannot be undone.

    Ultima Online: Third Dawn - 3D quality. I actually liked this expansion, but the models were absolutely terrible.

    Ultima Online: Age of Shadows - Luna killed any community in Britannia. The item system was great in complexity, but poor in execution. Item properties made no sense and it has taken so long to rebalance armour and weapons once again.

    Ultima Online: Samurai Empire - Ninja and Samurai.... no. Although at least I can try to digest this one. But still, no.

    Ultima Online: Mondain's Legacy - Elves. No. Richard Garriott strived so far to move away from the whole typical fantasy business. Meer and Juka were better choices.

    Ultima Online: Kingdom Reborn - On the right track. Removing the hi-res terrain, items and backtracking and failing to continue through with the KR concept was as stupid as abandoning TD.

    Ultima Online: Stygian Abyss - Gargoyles were a great addition. Slightly missed the mark on their appearance. Just a little too human and gendered.
     
  49. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I've always believed that PvP should be consensual. Had it been done that way, they could have just added some interesting new land to allow more room for housing, rather than split the land into Fel-Trammel.
     
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  50. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Renaissance and AoS were the two best.