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The current Item-based UO or old-style Skill-based UO

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tanivar, Mar 17, 2010.

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"Which would you rather play?"

  1. The current game, as is, with Item-based combat

    53 vote(s)
    42.4%
  2. The current game, as is, with the old skill-based combat

    72 vote(s)
    57.6%
  1. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Which would you rather play, the current Item-based game or the current game with the old-style Skill-based combat instead?

    This should not involve much work or expense for EA. All they should have to do is remove the Item info from the combat equations and have the item info display not include the resists & bonus information.

    The old-style Skill-based UO would have your skill numbers & the tactics you use determine how successful you are. There would be no high-powered uber gear to use, or to try and compete against. It would just be deco. The supermonsters of the last few expansions would likely be made less powerful to allow for hunting them without uber gear.

    You would not need to put the hours into the game to get the uber items from monsters or to gather the millions in gold they cost on vendors.

    Once you had your skills trained up, it becomes how good you are, not what items you have, that counts.
     
  2. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Sorry, Pandora's box has already been opened. All a revert would do now is make imbuing completely useless.

    If you want a revert to the old ways, go back to the Classic Shard thread and stump for it there.
     
  3. I had to vote for the item based UO we have now. I am not just playing Devil's Advocate here... I think with the world of UO the way it is currently, that the old system would get boring and cause the game to be closed down pretty quickly.
     
  4. If everyone has good gear then its still skill based. Now with imbuing its easier than ever to build a great suit.
     
  5. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    If you have access to an imbuer. They are not cheap to train up to Legendary, I did one. It took millions in gold.

    If I hadn't had millions coming in from selling thorns and petals, I'd be no where near finished training him.

    Those who lack & can't get or afford the uber items will likely vote for skill-based.

    Those who have and enjoy the benefits of uber gear will likely vote item-based

    The rest will vote which ever way would be best for them. :)
     
  6. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    It's a catch-22, Tanivar.

    Personally, I'd prefer the old skill based, GM is pretty much top of the line system. The problem is, either as a result of the arms race that was AoS, or perhaps as part of the cause, a skill based system would leave many/most PvM'ers out to pasture.

    I like to think of myself as a decent PvM player. I don't solo peerless, although I have done more than a couple of the lesser ML bosses solo. I can, and regularly do, take out the Great Dragons while I am hide gathering. Take away the armor and weapons that are available now, and it's all over for that particular play style.

    Was it meant to be this way? At this point, it no longer matters how it was meant to be - it's what we are stuck with. It's difficult to impossible to scale up skill level that far.

    And before the group argument comes in, it's hard enough to find anyone in the community now. LS is blessed with a great bunch of people like OSR, that sponsors community hunts 4 nights a week, allowing people to actually kill things they wouldn't normally be able to do otherwise. It's not like that on all servers. And part of the beauty of UO is the ability to do pretty much anything you want, when you want, and, to a degree, how you want. Limiting that would be yet another nail in the coffin.
     
  7. I hadn't really even considered the outrageously powerful creatures that they have been adding since AoS. Can you imagine facing off against a champ boss, or even just a Yammodon (sp?), in GM armor with no enhancements?

    The post-AoS version of UO is one of constant escalation. New creatures are added that make older items useless, and new items are introduced to replace the ones that are useless...then more powerful creatures are added, so more powerful items are needed...and so on and so on into infinity...or to the last day the shards operate.

    It would take a great deal of changing to the current system to revert back to a non-item based system.
     
  8. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    As points posted thus far against the old ways are good arguements.
    What about gold invested in special items, where's the reimbursment?

    If there wasn't any, then alot of players would get screwed for the desires of a few.

    On the other hand, players would have to work a skill up, and not be a shambo relying on rings and such. I have always been in favor of that. Advance character tokens are a way of catering to the lazy, and or impatient players.

    All in all, this current fad of a classic return.........I'm willing to bet that's all it will ever amount up to.

    later
     
  9. Merriweather

    Merriweather Guest

    Call me crazy, but I fail to see much distinction between "skill" and "item". "Skill" in the proscribed world of UO is just an invisible "item". Your 95 stealth is the same as anyone else's 95 stealth, yes? And better than anyone's 75 stealth, but not as good as someone's 120 stealth. (Is there such a thing?) So whether you are talking about using an uber weapon you drudged to get the money for, or an uber skill you drudged to earn, what it comes down to is, how imaginative and fast can you be on the keys and the mouse.

    I get dead as much as anyone, and more than some, but I don't get beat because somebody had a hot item and no ability to use it.
     
  10. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    Ultima Online has always been item-based. We just have "Damage Increase 50%" rather than "Vanquishing."

    I'm just as nostalgic about the golden days as the next fellow; but it would be impossible to do such a massive revert. And pointless.
     
  11. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Maybe now the real skill comes into play by trying to get the (right) items.
     
  12. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    False dichotomy.

    UO has always been item-based and skills-based. All AoS did was shift the degree.

    No vote from me.

    -Galen's player
     
  13. MadTexan

    MadTexan Slightly Crazed
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    let's Compromise. It is way too far back for them to try to reverse all of the changes since AOS. As someone else said, there has been some parts of this game that have always at least partly item based. here is what I think should be reverted.

    1. Remove all skill items, If you want the skill raise it to the level you want within the parameters available.

    2. Remove all stat enhancing items.

    3. Remove resist properties from items and return magic Resist to it's former state.
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    qft
     
  15. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    There has never been "skill-based" UO. Skill-centric, I'll give that to you.

    Items were always required, and there WERE what were considered "uber" items.

    Vanquishing, Exceedingly accurate, Exceedingly durable, etc. Items with bless, invisibility, fireball.

    For those that keep harping on some magical, mystical skill based UO, you really have short memories there.

    And really -- no skills required for today? So you just go out with an all 50's skill character and mop up on those pvp battles, do you?

    These are so funny to read sometimes.

    :popcorn:
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am sorry but I need to disagree that a skill based would get boring.

    It all depends on what content would be in the game and of the updates, quests and so forth.

    On the contrary, I think an item based game eventually becomes beyond balanceable.

    What I am trying to say, is that my opinion is, that once a game gets too dependant on items, in order to keep players' interest focused new and more powerfull items need to be released, ad infinitum and this, eventually, creates such a plethora of items, modifiers and possible variables and combinations which make the game plainly unbalanceable.

    And when a game is no longer balanceable a whole lot of problems can come up like waves of players all going for the new template of the moment or gear of the moment because it is the most powerfull and thus, killing variation in the game and blah blah.
    Then the developers have to nerf that template and players complain.

    Besides, this increases the disparity among players since those who have the now strongest template or gear have more ways at succeeding than other players and all that.

    Sorry, but I do not think that item based is better than skill based.
    Initially it may sound great, but eventually, when items start to multiply and complicate things, it can get the game to a nightmare, at least as far as balancing the game out goes.....
     
  17. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    My thoughts the subject of combat systems in uo I posted on my facebook page, that they are an impractical pipe dream I fully accept, which is why I don't post them here.
    This poll advocates a more drastic solution that, in my personal judgement, is even less likely to be possible.
    I have not voted either option.
     
  18. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    /this

    /and this

    And there are two types of "skill" involved. There are character skills, and UO uses a skill based character development model, and there are player skills, preparation, tactics and button mashing. UO is just as much a player skill based game as it ever was, in fact it is probably much more so than it was back in the days that so many look back on with such fondness, because the game is much more complex than it used to be, and it takes a lot more skill to effectively manage and direct those choices than it used to. As for character skills. Well, they are still critically important, just ask anyone who suffers through factions stat loss.

    I'm with Morgana, the old UO is pretty boring in comparison to what we have today. I might dabble in a "classic" shard, but I certainly wouldn't make it my UO home.
     
  19. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    UO has always been item based.
     
  20. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I am just going to tell you...I admire your pluck, open-mindedness, and objectivity about all this stuff. Classic Shard and all. You have some good ideas, and you aren't afraid to back them up with sound logic.

    Very refreshing indeed!!

    Not that it matters one bit. But I thought I would tell you.

    :)
     
  21. I completely agree. Item based is not better than skill based...however, if you had understood my post, you would have realized that I said "With the game the way it is today".

    If you suddenly took all of the item properties out of the game, almost every template besides mages and tamers would essentially become the same...useless against the uber high-end 100pts per hit creatures that they have added to the game to keep people buying expansions.

    Certainly, if you could go back and play on, oh, I don't know...A CLASSIC SHARD :drool: ... then absolutely! Lose all the AoS properties post-haste!!

    But like I said, with the game the way it is today, I think it would mean that you had all these items, but they would essentially be exactly the same...and without re-coding the entire NPC base, these items would also be pretty much useless against the most popular creatures.

    So, do you think everyone would be satisfied with going back to killing Liches and Ice Fiends for loot? I cannot imagine that happening now...at least not on the current shards.
     
  22. Taking out item properties wouldn't do anything to really change the game back into the old skill-based system. The difference is that today's game is item-based. I don't think you understand us when we say the game used to be skill-based. When those of us who played in the old T2A era say the old combat system was skill-based, we mean that it was based on the PLAYER'S skill, not the CHARACTER'S skill.

    Let me give you an example:

    T2A era: A week-old mage with 86 magery vs. a 7x GM veteran mage with GM magery, both played by a veteran player with good combat skills:
    First, a few givens from the era: The magic resist skill protected against magic damage, so it didn't really matter if the GM mage is wearing leather armor, while the 86 skill mage is naked. Also, you couldn't cast and hold a weapon at the same time. Meditation rose so fast that it was at GM before a character was a day old. You cast a fire field and ran back and forth through it to GM magic resist in a short time, too. Magery took a lot of time and a lot of regs to GM, but that mage with 86 skill wasn't the weakling back then that he would be today. Skill gain was a LOT faster than it is today, particularly during power hour; you could reasonably expect to gain from 50 to 86 magery in less than a week through normal gameplay.

    The battle: Each mage has spell reflection on at the beginning of the battle. They assume their opponent does as well, so the first spells they cast are magic arrow or harm to break the reflect. They want to do the least damage to themselves as possible when their spells reflect back on themselves. They will use lightning, heal, para, e-bolts, explosions and invisibility spells. The GM mage could cast flamestrike, while the mage with 86 skill would fizzle at it about 25% of the time, but he doesn't use it, because it's a mana hog. It takes 40 mana, twice as much as an e-bolt, but only does 20% more damage. 2 flamestrikes and you're out of mana. High level spells were mostly for PvM and group battles back then. A duel between two really skillful mages could last for 30 minutes or more. It was the combat skill of the PLAYERS that would determine the outcome. The 7x GM mage would have a small advantage, but not an overwhelming one.

    In fact, a naked, day-old mage with just 63 skill, played by a veteran player with really good battle skills, could occasionally beat a GM mage. He would fizzle at e-bolts, but lightning didn't fizzle at 63 magery back then, and it only cost 14 mana, while e-bolts are 20. If you could take the initial onslaught, your mage with just 63 skill, barely more than you had when you started the character, would still have tons of mana, while your opponent was running on empty after the mana dump.

    Today: First, remember that, when power scrolls were introduced, the casting chances for spells were bumped up a level. It's now just as likely for a character at 86 magery to fizzle a level 6 spell as it used to be for a character with the same skill to fizzle a level 7 spell.

    The 7x GM mage back then was the very best PvP mage in the game. The modern-day equivalent would be a mage with 6x legendary skills, decked out in full faction gear, with all 70s, 40% LMC, 100% LRC, 205 mana, a mage weapon and 2/6 FC/FCR, 80% enhance pots and 45 DCI, 120 magery, EI, magic resist and med. His armor is all 70s, and he is wearing the best faction items, so the -20 mage weapon with 15 HCI, 15 DCI, 30 SSI, 50% DI and 50% hit lightning in his hand doesn't cost any magery points to use.

    His opponent is the same week-old naked mage with 86 magery and GM EI, resist and med. You couldn't reasonably expect a week-old character in today's UO to have the gold to pay 50 million for power scrolls. Also, after all of the efforts to make skills a LOT harder to GM, it's really stretching the imagination to believe that a week-old character would be at GM EI and resist, unless he did it the script kiddie way.

    We won't even talk about a contest between two veteran players with equal skills. Let's give the character with 86 magery to a player with the skills of Sun Tzu, the writer of "The Art of War" and one of the greatest military strategists of all time, and pit him against a drunk pothead with a ping of 5,000, a mouse that just halfway works, and a broken wrist. Would you give the week-old mage better odds than a snowball in a certain very hot place? What if you bumped him up to GM magery? Gave him halfway decent armor? Still no takers?

    Now let's talk about warriors in the two eras:
    T2A: You could just go to the Jhelom pit and train a warrior character to GM swords/parry/tactics/anatomy/healing in about 2 days. Your 2-day-old warrior would have the skills to fight, but he wouldn't have the 40,000 gold or so that it would cost to buy a suit of armor and a vanq weapon yet. He would have to pick up some bone armor by killing a few skeletons at the brit graveyard. A suit of bone armor had AR 43. He would have to spend 200 gold for a GM made weapon. Now, let's look at the equations. The base damage for both the newbie and the veteran would be 26, because they would both be GM in all 3 combat skills. The newbie character's GM weapon would be +6 damage. The veteran warrior character would have a 15,000 gold piece vanq that was +9 damage. That means that the vanq would do an extra 3 damage every time it hit. That's a 10% difference in damage. The veteran warrior's valorite would have an AR of 48. Again, the veteran would have a 10% advantage, substantial but not overwhelming, unless the battle lasted long enough for the low-durability bone to break. If both players had equal skill, because of the damage and AR difference, the newbie character would lose about 80% of the time. However, if the veteran wins, he would get a 200 gold piece GM made weapon. If the veteran lost, he had just lost maybe 40,000 gold pieces in high-end equipment, and the newbie warrior would have some decent armor to go hunting in, and hopefully make some gold to buy more stuff.

    Today, a 2 day old warrior character wouldn't even be close to GM in all of his fighting skills, even if he scripted 24/7. But let's assume he's 5x GM anyway. He has some low-end armor he picked up and a low-end sword. What are his chances against a 6x legendary bush warrior with full faction gear? What if we give him 10 million gold to buy a basic set of imbued armor, without using PoF on it? Break both the veteran's arms and give him a 50,000 ping?

    In the old days, a really skilled veteran player with great battle skills could play with a week old character with low skills, and actually stand a chance of winning at PvP against a 7x GM veteran character. When you talk about skills, you're talking about the numbers in that chart called "skills" on the character. When the people who played during T2A talk about skills, we're talking about our own skills, not the toon's.

    The skill of the player isn't very important in the post-AOS world. Even if you removed every single one of the new item properties, a 6x legendary PvPer could beat anything other than another scrolled out PvPer.

    The fact is that, at this late date, trying to re-balance the game so that the PLAYER with the best skills usually wins would be impossible. Power scrolls ruined that dynamic forever. The items just put a little icing on the cake.

    @Morgana: You've forgotten how much we've been nerfed since the old days. If we had a classic shard with the current content on it, the monsters wouldn't be as overpowered as you think. Remember that, before they nerfed us so many times and put in the pet and summon slots, us mages with GM med could cast 3 daemons, then meditate and either cast 3 EVs, or a dozen blade spirits? And that EVs hit a LOT harder back then? Or that the blade spirits have been nerfed like 10 times since T2A? Between the massive damage and the poison, one blade spirit was a pretty potent summon. And they only cost 14 mana. We could summon 8 or 9 BS in a row, then meditate and summon 8 or 9 more. Or that earthquake used to do like 10 times as much damage as it does now? At one time, it was like insta-death for everything on the screen. How about the tamers who used to walk around with 3 or 4 dragons? Or, before they outlawed them, the really old days, when they would have 2 Ancient Wyrms? (They were so hard to control that I never saw 3) And a warrior witha full set of platemail of invulnerability, AR 58, and a vanq war hammer that would break a monster's AR down to 0 and knock its dex down to 0 wasn't anything to sneeze at. With the T2A ruleset, a half-dozen 7x GM players back then could take down a Slasher of Veils in less time than a half-dozen 6x legendary players with top gear can today. The 2 warriors would wait until the Slasher attacked an EV, then start pounding away and cross-healing. Bandages took 15 seconds for you, but only 3 seconds to heal somebody else. The 4 mages would each be summoning EVs as fast as they could. In a matter of seconds, there would be about a dozen EVs hitting the slasher, doing about 55 damage each, every second and a half, while its dex dropped to 0 and it couldn't move, and its AR dropped to 0 and it took every single point of damage that the warriors and the EVs hit it for. The mages would have their mass dispels ready for the second that it fell, and the warriors would get out of the way, so the EVs didn't decide to attack them before they were dispelled.
    As far as the Miasma, it's so weak that, even with mages nerfed to just 2 EVs, it just takes seconds to kill it. In the T2A period, people would have had a dozen EVs thrown down there 24/7. I hunted balron and Ancient Wyrms during T2A. They're just as hard to solo today as they were back then. We've got more mana, but our spells don't work like they used to. Reactive armor used to be strong enough that it would take one hit from an AW. If the AW ate my EVs, and got in a hit, I would have to run and cast invisibility, then recast RA, then meditate and come back with 3 new EVs to finish it off. Today, it's a little different strategy. Same result.
    The truth is that UO's PvM content today is just as predictable, and just as easy to kill, as it was back then. Back then, there were always several people camped at the Tentacles of the Harrower, taking turns killing them, just like there are at the Miasma today. For mages, our spells and summons were repeatedly nerfed since then, but we were given more mana and LMC. It's a wash. I remember when my tamer would take his two white wyrms and a nightmare to go hunting blood elementals. Before all the nerfs. WWs were awesome for a while there. Overkill, I'll admit. But it was fun.
     
  23. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    In fact, a naked, day-old mage with just 63 skill, played by a veteran player with really good battle skills, could occasionally beat a GM mage. He would fizzle at e-bolts, but lightning didn't fizzle at 63 magery back then, and it only cost 14 mana, while e-bolts are 20. If you could take the initial onslaught, your mage with just 63 skill, barely more than you had when you started the character, would still have tons of mana, while your opponent was running on empty after the mana dump.

    I read this and stopped. Not only would you not kill your enemy but you would be destroyed instantly. You're not counting all the disrupts from the punches, the fact that you'd have no resist and back in those days if you have no resist spells like fireball could do 25% of your hp.

    I didn't read your long winded post, but I assume it's about skill over items. Anyone who claims this game is item based when imbuing and faction items are avaliable to everyone is probably really bad and is just looking for an excuse as to why they lost. Clearly skill is involved or the same people wouldn't trump others everytime.
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Who says that item based removes the necessity of skill?
    Think about it...what good is a player with top-line armor/weapons if they don't know how to use it properly? Most PvPers already have good armor/weapons. So since every has top-line items how do you defeat the other? Skill, technique. You can't just sit there and hope that just because you have top-line items you're going to win. You do that and you will get walked all over in PvP by those who know what they are doing.

    Prior to AoS unless you were a mage, it was still essentially item based. Now everything is just made more complicated then it was. Before we just had GM or magic armor/weapons that was so easily categorized without numbers to look at. Now it's just been separated into many many types of resists, abilities, etc and all have percentages to go along with it instead of simple text. All that happened since AoS is a great expansion on the narrow category of magic items from pre AoS into a much bigger category.
     
  25. Argoas

    Argoas Guest

    I prefer the old-style. It's true that even with items you need skill, but items make a great difference. I dont want to have the feeling that one guy is better than other one simply by his items.

    And, a great reason for loving old style, there are a several mmorpgs where having this or those armor or sword unbalance pvping. I'd prefer a game where difference only lies on your skills, with a little space for items.
     
  26. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I've played since just after the release of T2A. The thing I liked about the old systems was that you could make a living simply off of mining your own ore (which were fixed locations) and smith up some armor and sell it.

    Suits were alot easier for people to figure out, despite the Dex penalties. Personally, I'm a little bit of a stats/number guy so the work to figure our the formulas now is just fine. However, the simplicity of the miner/smith is what has been lost in this item property based system.

    For a smith to make any money, they have to jump through the BOD hoops or spend a lot of money to buy runics. Imbuing has helped quite a bit, though it is a separate skill.

    The non-decay(or greatly-reduced-decay) factor in the Item Property based system also contributes to lower demand of smith made armors. I don't mind the insurance so much, because that wouldn't take the armor out of the game a whole lot as much as it would just transfer it from one person to another.

    Another thing I don't like about the Item Property based system is that there is no base protection difference between leather and plate armor (gargoyle leather actually has a higher base resist than it's plate counterpart), reducing it's desirability to almost exclusively RP situations.

    Having said that, I think, overall, the current system is better for UO as it offers more things to do, always something to strive for. Personally, I like having all of the different number, combinations, and possibilities to play with.

    At the same time I like the idea of a simple smith character being able to run a simple business (For those that would say 'come to Siege', I've tried a couple times, but I'm not a PvPer and I am also kind of a loaner, which doesn't seem to be a good combination in an all PvP environment, nor do I have the time necessary to devote to playing now to build a character or reputation).

    I think the control of imbuing may have tipped my decision. I can live with the way UO is today.
     
  27. I voted new. I like being "uber". Sue me. :lick:
     
  28. @Speaking The Truth: I didn't say he would have an equal chance, or even close. He wouldn't win very often. Maybe once out of 20 fights. He would have to be really, really lucky to win, but the fact that it could be done at all was the point I was making.

    Everybody started their characters with 50 resist back then, and the first thing they did was lay down fire fields and run back and forth in them a few hours to get resist up into the 70s or 80s, I don't remember exactly where the gains stopped flying, but it was somewhere in that range. The day old mage wouldn't be GM resist, but it wouldn't be insta-death.
     
  29. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    You coudln't go that high back in the day, plus you'd have to get regs ect you wouldn't have the gold for everything in a day.

    Plus that char would lose everytime you'd have no eval ect. You'd have low dmg out put and weak heals since they are magery based.

    Now in AoS I have myself made a char that was trained for 24 hours and able to kill people, but back in those days you couldn't get as much done, you wouldn't kill anyone unless it was a res kill. Certainly not a 7x gm, unless you're saying they are redlined and you blast them with a lightning.
     
  30. Rainfo X

    Rainfo X Guest

    I dont mind that it's item based. I like the variety of items, the way they look, and the variety of options you have. With imbuing there are tons of possibilities as well. However, artifacts seem slightly too rare in my opinion and it is really hard to get a group together for anything, be it doom, peerless, or simply hunting paragons. Ive been wanting to find a Totem of the Void for months and I still havent gotten around to getting one, for example. Also, Power Scrolls are those items that everybody just needs, and they're also a bit rare. However, I like the fact that it's item-based, and they have to be rare for them not to be something every single person has, but I think the drop rates could be adjusted or something and power scrolls in trammel as well because its not fair for pvpers to have access to items that pvmers dont have access too. Otherwise, I think it's cool that it's item-based, it allows for a lot of collection and interesting items. Treatures of Tokuno was very fun! There need to be more things like that in the game really...
     
  31. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Wow, <g> get sidetracked by RL a week and a half and this topic winds up 8 pages back. :)

    Ah well, perhaps after a 'Classic Shard' gets started with a t2a ruleset people will try it and like the non-uber item world. Then maybe we can get a tram ruleset version.
     
  32. Gunga_Din

    Gunga_Din Guest

    No contest. Skill based all the way. Lets have back the old magical weapons and armor. Ruin to Vanq and Defense to Invulnerability.

    Well, both are skill based, guess its down to the gear we roll with now or the gear we rolled with then. I preferred GM Items and vanq, ruin, def, etc.

    So you keep the gear simple and then just work on content and EM events. The rewards should not be gear but titles, trophies, em items etc. or some kind of rare clothing that didnt have mods, increase skills or make a difference in combat.

    All this diff gear you see in all the MMO's was never needed. Its just a lazy way to get that horse after the carrot.

    However, thats all your gonna get and thats why MMO's are dying and will soon be thing of the past.
     
  33. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    MMO's aren't dying... subscriptions based one's are being overtaken by "free to play" MMO's, with a few exceptions, such as WoW obviously. But... what drives the free MMO's arguably? Items of course, which can be bought for extra $$$ thus encouraging revenue. Is it no surprise that EA/Mythic are releasing more "saleable" items for a subscription based game where subscriptions are continually in decline?

    Wouldn't surprise me in the future, if ultimately this game becomes "free to play", but even more dependent on "items", which would be bought through the game store. That seems to be the future... :sad4:
     
  34. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Skill based, quite obviously.
    Every (rare now) time I log in to UO nowadays there's almost nothing I can do except walking around because my "stuff" is not up to date and I don't want to study the science of suit building version 23.0.5 for a month and spend the next month (?) building the said suit before I can venture to a dungeon or whatever.
     
  35. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    There is no way back, we have to move forward.

    Imbuing is great
    The way the resources spawn in SA is great, you know where to go if you need a kind of imbuing resource.
    Now we need changes to the loot on the other facets so you know where to go if you are looking for something special. Less random drop will help alot.
     
  36. QTF
     
  37. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    This is where I have a problem with the game as it is now though. To my mind, it's entirely a chase for items.

    Imbuing completely makes sense within an item based game, granted, but for me it's the final nail in the coffin. To me, it's nothing more than the need to get items, get more items, more items to use with those items, mix items together, to make an item... which then can be used to make another item.

    Where will it end with future expansions? Will they add another fifty-odd "ingredients" for imbuing to cater for new "items" relevant to the new expansion? I'm sorry, but that doesn't appeal to me at all.

    To craft, I simply want to use a raw material, or combine a couple of "items", to make an end product... not have to spend the vast majority of my time hunting and collecting countless items, just to make... another item.

    Imbuing has made my other crafting skills nothing less than side skills to use with imbuing. That's my problem with the item based game. It has further detracted from my enjoyment of the game. I thoroughly enjoyed crafting in the past, but it was simple enough that I didn't have to spend all my time doing it. I've always embraced all aspects of the game and pretty much all character classes. Now I feel as if I need to devote my time to one aspect, at the loss of another. It stagnates my gameplay and thus diminishes my interest altogether. :(

    Such is why I'm strongly in favour of a pre-AOS "classic" shard. I can craft for a little while and actually achieve something, get something done. I can hunt with friends for a little while and achieve something, without worrying to much that I need to collect every item I see. I can PvP with the simplicity of using looted or basic GM crafted items, without the worry that if I lost something, it being that important.

    In short, I could log in for an evening's gameplay and do lot's of different things, with lot's of different characters, before items were so important. Now, if I wanted to imbue a suit, I either have to pay silly prices for an item, pay silly prices for an ingredient, or spend too much of my time gathering, then crafting components, then imbuing, just for example, to make a suit.
     
  38. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I would have to disagree with this pretty emphatically. Some things were sacrificed with the introduction of imbuing, but overall I love it. I think it's the bees knees and then some.
     
  39. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    In the context of the game as it is now, then totally, imbuing was natural progression and I do understand the appeal of its total control over "item" modifications.

    All I'm suggesting though, is that I much preferred the simplicity of crafting as it was before. In the current style of the game, I thought that imbuing was indeed a great addition. Upon careful reflection of my thoughts about the game as a whole though, it's detracted too much importance from other crafting classes, for my own tastes. :sad4:

    I guess you can't please everyone all of the time, as they say, but clearly my own preferences and enjoyment playing UO, differ from your own. It's all about different perspectives I suppose. Perhaps the continued changes post-AOS just aren't that appealing to me any more.

    At this point, I'm now waiting for Restroom Cowboy to ask...

    "CAN I HAVE UR STUFF" :p
     
  40. Splup

    Splup Guest

    They both have their pros and cons.

    I have done some playing on freeshard which is UOR without trammel, and I gotta say time has goldened some memories. It was fun as heck back then when I was starting UO. But as a veteran it's not so much fun as it used to be you know rolleyes:

    But yeah good change.... Pros and cons.
     
  41. MadTexan

    MadTexan Slightly Crazed
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    I guess real life and games are not much different. People in real life a not willing to give up an entitlelment once they have a taste of it. The same goes for a computer game. Everyone feels they are entltled to everything. Entitlements are more detrimental in real life, but they do have a very negative effect on games. Just my opinion
     
  42. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Most of my skills can't be or aren't itemed-up so it doesn't really affect me either way. For most people new gear allows for a greater flexibility and of course opens up the possibility of greater foes and accomplishments.

    As for the old days of exceptional armour, magic items, and 7xGM skills, people can still restrict themselves to that if they want those days back. Of course they would have to scale back their expectations. I remember having to pair up and cross-heal to take on liches, and that was never a guaranteed win.

    It reminds me of a hermit guy who lived in the forest near my house pre-AoS. He fought overland spawn and looted gear from ettins and lizardmen. I don't know what he got out of avoiding other people in an MMO. I played a hermit fisherman on Dagger Isle for a few months and, beyond seeing skills creep up and dodging orcs, it got pretty dull after a while.
     
  43. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    "The current game, as is, with the old skill-based combat "

    Just make a char for RP(PvP) on Europa, woohoo there you go...its how real men/women fight.