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The Dark Side of UO: Greifing, Harassment & Stalking

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Jirel of Joiry, Apr 27, 2011.

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  1. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I know I have made posts about this before, but I would like to a have a civil, reasonable , and MATURE discussion about what I believe is a on going problem in UO and all MMOs for that matter. Please read this post in its entirety BEFORE you post a reply. If you can not be bothered to read the whole post then do not bother to reply, thank you.

    I believe if there is ever going to be any change in dealing with this problem it going to have to start with US...the gamers.

    I have had nine months of experience with this issue in game. During this time I was repeatedly stalked and harassed by a player whom I will not name. This player's behavior has fit the criteria defined by EA as harassment, because of that I have reported this player 40 times in nine months and this player has yet to be punished for his behavior. It is my belief that if we as a gaming community stand up against this kind of behavior. We could rid ourselves of this undesirable element.

    I would like everyone to stop and think for a moment in the years that you have played UO how many people have you seen quit because of this negative behavior? Do you feel that EA has done anything to try to stop or deter this negative behavior?

    In 9 years of playing UO, its my experience that EA does not try to stop this behavior and in fact has created an environment that this behavior has been accepted and allowed to thrive. My first real eye opener to this was about six or seven years ago. A player on Legends who we will call Player A had a vendor house. Another player who we will call Player B had an issue with Player A. So Player B, who had multiple tamers, took and completely blocked Player A's vendor house with tamed animals. Player B did this for two months, during this time Player A did report Player B for harassment. The GMs said this wasn't harassment. Okay the house was in Trammel, and by Trammel rule set you cannot kill a tamed animal belonging to another player. (The exception is if they are in the same guild or alliance with you.) IMHO, it was harassment and the GM should have taken action against Player B. They did not and Player A quit UO, closing 3 accounts, never to return.

    I have seen this sort of thing play out over and over in nine years of playing UO. Although the players, methods and circumstances may change the result is the always the same the perpetrator goes unpunished and the victim quits. It is IMHO that players who engage in this sort of behavior are in reality little more than bullies. Bullies don't stop until they are confronted. Unfortunately the way the Trammel, Ilshenar, Malas, Tokuno Islands, and Ter Mur rules are setup if a player retaliates in anyway they risk getting themselves suspended or banned under the harassment rules.

    I am sure many of you will say let the victim go to law enforcement. It isn't that simple. I have researched it. Many states still do not have laws that cover harassment and stalking via the internet. Some states laws only specify chat rooms and email communications leaving the gaming world uncovered. Also since it happened in game the victims are likely not to have evidence to prove it, as least in UO anyway. In UO there is no way to save your journal. I have tried the journal converter program and it does not work. When you send a harassment complaint to a GM it takes a snapshot of your journal that is saved and sent as well. However to get this information from EA the victim will have to get a subpoena. In order to get the subpoena the victim has to file charges either civil or criminal against the offending player. In order to file charges the victim would have to show “cause” that he/she was harassed. Again EA has the evidence and the victim can not obtain it without a subpoena. So then the victim is caught in a proverbial catch twenty-two situation. I really think that implementing a way to save the journal to the hard drive by date and time would go a long, long way to help.

    I cannot understand why players would tolerate and condone behavior in game that in the real world would get you beat up, arrested, and/or jailed. I know there are many behaviors in game that would not be tolerated in the real world i.e.: player-killing, stealing, using stealth to enter houses, killing player’s pets. However these have all been understood as part of the game. Harassment by the Rules of Conduct is not tolerated and has never been considered part of the game. However, the ROC as we are well aware are either not enforced or enforced at the whim of the responding GM. IMHO, there has never been any uniformity or consistency of enforcement of the ROC.

    Let’s think about some of the griefing/harassment type behaviors we have all seen in UO.

    1) The foul language user- Okay we've all lost our tempers and swore in game. I’m talking about the player who curses at a particular player via general chat over and over. Okay now let’s suppose we move this behavior to a real life setting. Let’s say the local Wal-Mart. Okay if you stood in Wal-Mart and repeatedly yelled curses at some person because you were angry at them what do you think would happen? I will tell you: you will be removed from the store, arrested, and maybe held for a seventy-two hour psychiatric evaluation. Why on earth then is it considered acceptable in game?

    2) The racial slur user- Okay it is IMHO that racial slurs shouldn't be used anywhere, period. Yet a fool can get into the general chat, spam racial slurs, and nothing will be done. I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. It is a violation of the ROC, but the GMs cannot be bothered with UO anymore since the same group of GMs are also taking care Warhammer, Dark Age of Camelot and Pogo that we know of for sure. Seriously what do you think would happen if some fool yelled “Was sup my N-word” in the middle of Harlem, NY? Probably get his stupid butt kicked and rightfully so. The same thing would happen if you walked on to a reservation and called someone an “injun”. (Not to be confused with “Indian” which is not a slur but just what some confused Italian fellow called us in 1492)

    3) Game mechanics abuser- Okay this comes in many forms. Here is one I only recently learned about myself. Apparently in the PvP community it is normal to stone one’s skills, clean the char off, delete the char, and then remake char with same name. I wouldn't have believed this if I had not seen it with my own eyes. An acquaintance of mine showed me this after I asked him how a player was circumventing ignore after I had placed that player on ignore and the Char Search was only showing one char by that name on our shard. I asked what about the scrolls and stats? He replied stats are easy to work up. If you are in a PvP guild or buddies with a PK; scrolls are cheap and easy to get. I was horrified. As this was one of the ways my harasser was using to continue his reign of harassment on me. Again there is nothing to be done, as the GMs don’t believe it and can’t be bothered with UO.

    It is IMHO that UO has turned into a Griefer’s paradise. It is time we the players say enough. I think one way we can help stop this is when you seen someone is clearly being harassed page a GM. When a GM gets not only the victim’s complaint but witness complaints they will have to take action. Email Mesanna ([email protected]) and Cal ([email protected]) let them know what is going on and the GMs are not doing their job. Be sure and include a copy of you page to the GM. The key thing is to stand up to the griefers and DO NOT back down. They are nothing but bullies and bullies are usually cowards.

    I also believe an expanded punishment system would help too. Instead of twenty-four hr and seventy-two hr suspensions and perma-ban; I suggest suspensions ranging from Twenty-four hrs to one month depending on the violation. They would also need to implement something that would prevent a player from avoiding serving their penalty time by deactivating their account. So that when a player that had received a one month suspension deactivated his/her account to avoid the punishment reactivates the account the punishment would pickup right where it was when he deactivated the account. I guess what I’m trying to say is: “If you do the “crime”, be prepared to do the time!”

    I am extremely passionate about UO and I only want to make the game better for everyone. Even if I could no longer play I would still feel this way.
     
  2. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    cyber crimes is a federal offense, call the cops.

    if you have someone stalking you and harassing you, they should help.
     
  3. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I have talked to law enforcement. I have started with my local "leos". It comes down to burden of proof. The U.S. justice system has always been innocent until proven guilty. That means I have to prove it, and since it took place in game I don't have the evidence (proof). Oh sure I have the email generated where I paged a GM , but it doesn't include the snapshot. Without the journal I'm afraid I won't be able to do much.

    I haven't gone to the FBI or "Fibbies". I really feel strange going to a federal agent when they got bigger fish to fry. If it'll help I'll give it shot. I 'm afraid it may come back to lack of evidence, but I don't know how feds operate versus how the local guys operate.

    Thank you very, very much for you input, I truely appreciate it.
     
  4. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No disrespect but if it is seriously a big burden on you there are multiple things you could try other than paging. Sending an email to someone at EA/Mythic, try pming a dev here, or if it persists completely ignore the guy, put him on your ignore list or the ultimate move, go to a different shard. Don't fight back as usually in the trammel rule-set areas it doesn't fix it, don't harass the harasser because that just keeps it rolling.

    Sure the last couple part can be argued with the whole "that's letting the harasser win," etc. Yeah, it's letting them win, kind of. But seriously, to hell with that argument. If nothing is being done just find a way to stop the harassment if it's that bad and get away from it.

    Not trying to offend, just some tips to get away from it so you can get back to the fun of the game. But I do agree something needs to be done to inform some of the dimwitted GMs on how to deal with these people.
     
  5. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    For starters - why don't you get a good screen recording program. There are free ones that exist that you can start and they will capture a video of whatever is on your screen including everything happening in UO and capture it as a movie. I would capture the full video and then send some appropriate pieces to someone at EA. Not hard to find Cal's email or others on the team.

    In terms of the behavior -have you ever thought to not play that shard for awhile? Go try another shard and hang out there for a week or two. The person trying to harrass you is BOUND to get bored when you are no longer on. Although, you sound like someone who plays the game all day long so its easy to find you and harass you whenever they are on.

    I'm not saying that what he is doing is right - i'm just saying in dealing with the bullies and trolls that play UO (which is the majority) sometimes you need to adjust your tactics until the situation is sorted out.

    I'd start with recording the actions. This one works pretty well.
    Video Capture Software - Capture Streaming Video, Screen Record or Webcam
     
  6. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Thank you so much for the link. I downloaded the video capture software. I have considered playing another shard, but was advised he plays a number of North American shards. I have considered visiting a non North American shard instead.

    Actually don't play all day. LOL I've been spending a lot of time at my computer shooting my resume' all over and filling out applications. No my household is not broke but could benefit from my added income. :)

    During the course of all that I take little breaks and play. I do the most of my UO playing evenings and weekends. You are definitely right I do need to adjust my tactics as well.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Some of the non-American shards have some pretty cool events and other stuff going on. Have considered going to one of the asian shards.
     
  8. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Well, wouldn't it be hard for him to track you on a diff shard if you create a diff named character? I guess if you create Jirel on every shard - pretty easy to track. Create a char on GL and I'll get you setup with some stuff to play on GL if you need. Unless that is the shard you have issues with of course... Having a home on GL - I wouldn't be surprised! ;-)
     
  9. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Nah, its Legends. One Jirel is plenty. Although several months ago someone on Legends made a second Jirel and caused such a headache. LOL Seems they were begging and claimed they were a poor newbie. Its probably a good idea if you are going to copy someone's char , don't copy one with a reputation and multiple houses that include a castle! ROTFL

    With all the books I've read and movies I've seen; I'm sure I can come up with a good name. ;)
     
  10. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    I cant see you trying hard enough. If this person is going through the trouble of rescrolling to make a new character for you to listen to, you simply put that new character on ignore. Its costing them more than you. I dont like to hear some people in game and i have put a few people on ignore. I wish theyd take the time and trouble to recreate a character so i could ignore them again.

    If you are like most people and feed into the harrassment i see then you are not a victim at all. You need to completely break comunication with this person as much as possible. But if your looking for video and journal feeds obviously your not trying to hard.
     
  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You are exactly right in your post.

    Won't stop because it's allowed to continue by EA/UO DEV's and GM's.

    What's more they treat the victims often as the criminals.

    Often most players are seen as liars and thieves... and treated as such by EA. Trying to get their help on matters of this nature is next to impossible.

    And another thing your right about... Sadly this has led to a large number of folk quitting UO and never coming back because they feel cheated and wronged by EA. Some will even ask..... "Has the policy on this changed?"..... and when you answer NO they say well not coming back then.

    I know a number of folk who have quit because of Harassment. Infact I once traded a house to help someone else get away from a stalker.

    Sadly I doubt that things will change as far as the poor policy goes.
     
  12. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Roland-

    When I have 5 chars with the same name but different char id numbers on ignore and I'm now putting number 6 on ignore when is it time for the player to be dealt with?

    I have contacted law enforcement.

    Between my sister and I, we have six accounts and 38 characters. Its seems no matter what char I'm on this player finds out. Maybe its my big mouth and I don't realize I am giving myself away.

    40 harassment complaints since July 4, 2010 to no avail.

    I am planning on playing on a different shard I'm just not publishing which one. :)

    As far as the video capture software, my sister plays the same shard and she's deeply concerned she might be this player's next target. This player has caused major havoc on Legends. I will not name him since it could be construded as a personal attack which is a volation of Stratics TOS. Hey I'm trying to talk openly and objectively without stepping on toes.

    I am trying I can't publish everything I am doing or have done due to a number of issues.

    What I'm hoping for with this post and thread is to get enough players behind the idea of a change in the way EA handles these sorts of players.

    I appreciate you input. :)
     
  13. Eddie123

    Eddie123 Adventurer
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    only reason they keep bothering u is because u care to much if u just ignore them they will stop bothering u from boredom.... ohh yea and this is a game not real life u need to realize that!
     
  14. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    The truely sad part of this whole thread is that some people are saying or implying you are not doing enough to NOT be harrassed.


    You should not have to do anything to stop someone from harassing you other make making a complaint.


    Years ago when there were counselors if someone made a harassment call Journals were immediately saved on the person making the call for longer than normal. The use of saying you were being harassed automatically did this and then the Journals were reviewed by a GM.

    Back in those days if people used tames to say things the GMs would change the name of the tamed pets.

    Maybe because Subs are so far down EA has decided it does not want to lose a paying customer by taking action against them, and they feel if someone is still here they are not going anywhere.

    If you decide to come to play LS I can offer my help. I dont have much but I will help anyway I can.
     
  15. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Thank you, DENNAR! I really believe that if EA overhauled the way they deal with harassment we would see influx of people.

    I don't really understand what happened to the quality of customer service we were getting. I remember when they raise the sub rate from $9.95 USD a month to $12.95 USD month with the promise of more and better customer service. Instead we got less and even worse customer service. We didn't know how good we had it, till it was gone.

    I'm still trying to figure out when they raised it to $12.99 USD a month. lol I'm not gonna go get my panties in a twist over .04 but I wonder when they snuck it in.
     
  16. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Eddie123-

    You missed some things. I have put this player on ignore, REPEATEDLY. He circumvents or gets around it. The bahavior displayed by this player has never been part of the game and is defined by EA as harassment.

    You need to reread this:
    In game or real life harassment shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.

    I do appreciate your input, thank you.
     
  17. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I understand your frustration, although personally i like that UO isnt as "patroled" as other games.

    RL law enforcement isnt going to get far right now, as cyber law is in its infancy. However, like any area of the law, spend enough $$ on lawyers and you can do something.

    I dont really see how its that hard to get rid of a "stalker" in UO. All you have to do is change your name, maybe put on a different color robe than you normally have. You could even use a disguise kit if you dont have the gold or cash for a name change token. And yes, in a perfect world, no you shouldnt have to go the trouble to change your name, but you have to decide what would bother you more, the harrassment, or having a new name.
     
  18. In most states criminal law involving harassment is a civil issue, unless there is a belief or assumption that the person ("victim") is in real danger. At this time your "case" has gone beyond reasonable doubt relating to your "danger".

    I have learned something with being in law enforcement for a few years now, being a true victim is very far in between. Most "victims" do not complete the necessary steps to avoid being "harassed" and in some cases cause it to happen.

    While I'm not involved nor do I want to be, I can see many simple, non costing and effective ways to disperse this "issue" they have been listed and advice has been given.

    I wish you the best, but using police to resolve a simple game mater is a bit overboard.
     
  19. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Are you sure it's the same player? I can't think of anyone in UO, especially a pvper, that would take time to delete existing chars and rescroll new ones specifically to attack someone.

    There is no benefit. Someone that puts a pvper on ignore only harms themself in fel.

    You have admitted you give yourself away? Is it perhaps you instigate these problems?

    It would not be the first time in UO or real life that we saw someone instigating incidents with multiple people and then claiming to be the victim of 1 dedicated evil doer.

    I ask this because you DO come to these forums with quite a number of rant quality threads and your reputation on legends is one of an instigator.

    Is it possible, nay probable, that any issues you have with people would go away if you didn't call them out publicly, attack their character and threaten them with real life violence? Do you notice if any issues you have only appear when you attack people or provoke them?

    I sympathize with your plight. Someone stalks me on Legends too, they threaten violence upon me irl and urge others to attempt some sort of ostracism. I've found the best response is to attempt to avoid the player at all costs. Unfortunately, they call me the bad guy and make personal attacks on me virtually every time I'm online. Even when I haven't spoken in global chat or been in a public area.
     
  20. LadyKeroOfAtl

    LadyKeroOfAtl UO Homes & Castles News Reporter
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  21. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    want evidence there is a program fraps among others that will record your game play, no need to sopeona EA for "evidence" External Hard Drives are relatevly cheap with massive storage capabilities, hence you can record your own evidence, get enough videos of this player making threats, harassing you or griefing you, and you can then take action. Cyber Bullying has recently become a hot topic and been taken very seriously. Video the harassment yourself and then you can present it to the authorities
     
  22. I Love Girls

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    I totally agree with you Omnius, I play on legends where Jirel of Joiry plays and I must agree she is an instigator. I see her in G chat talking about people in a whole entire guild. Granted I can understand her hate toward that guild since they are really good pvpers who apparently keep killing her, but I dont understand why she is saying she is the victim. She seems to be the wolf crying wolf right now. It seems a bit ridiculous to be honest I was in shock when reading this thread.
     
  23. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Thank you :) I'm doing everything I can. Also there are some OTHER things that has happened as well that I can not post due privacy issues. I feel after nine months, and having tried to work with EA that it is the next logical step.
     
  24. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I'm on a soapbox? Hmm, interesting. I spent a week researching info and 3 days writing that post in MS word and I'm on my soapbox? I thought I was trying illuminate a problem. Your input is noted, thank you
     
  25. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    This is very clearly a "soup" box.

    Soooouuuup. :drool:
     
  26. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
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    For the example of Fraps, that will not work with the Classic Client, as it requires DirectX (or OpenGL, I think). There are several other ones that will work, however.
    Unfortunately, I don't know how reliable the video would be as proof, since it would not take much to doctor, or completely fabricate it, whereas proof from EA would be from a reliable source.
     
  27. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Okay ignore was put into the game so players DO NOT have to listen another player. I do not recall seeing anyone named I Love Girls on Legends. You input has been noted, thank you
     
  28. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I just downloaded some video capture software, ty. Cirno just posted fraps wouldn't work with CC. :( I can't figure out the EC so it might not be much help. I have a 500 GB passport drive, that has nothing on it, atm. plenty of room to save stuff. Thank you for help and input. :)
     
  29. I do not think you understood what I am implying. I'm implying that you, at this time are at fault for the continued harassment that is occurring. While the person is "continuing" to assist in the whole endeavor. While I'm sure it can be quite annoying.

    I see anyone using this board to widen the aspect of this "issue" is only causing themselves to be open for more attacks. Which is a classic "victim" response to this issue, causing themselves to appear helpless, but in reality the victim and suspect are the same.

    In lament terms, your pouring fuel on your own fire AND posting anything like this and HOPING to maybe have a civil case down the road and every post that you make about this "incident" is becoming a more and more distant reality.

    #1. good luck EVER serving a subpoena to EA (Its hard enough for me to subpoena cellphone records)

    #2 Opening a civil matter into public eyes is very frowned upon which even the snakiest civil attorney would feel shaky taking it.


    And to top off your ice cream Sunday, All of the United states have different civil harassment laws. Which is a misdemeanor because no physical damage or harm has been done to you. A misdemeanor is a non extraditable clause from state to state.

    And let alone that the "harassment" mostly occurred in a magical, make believe world, with nothing tangible. Your case appears to be so much related to the harassment issue itself.... non existent.
     
  30. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Thank you Cirno I appreciate a member of Stratics Central Admin dropping in and posting. Again thank you.
     
  31. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    This. Im sorry to say but i was gonna reply with this same comment.

    Ignore means ignore. Do not give said stalker the time of day.

    Also someone said adding fuel to your own fire. Maybe your innocent, who knows...
     
  32. Plant Elemental

    Plant Elemental Journeyman
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    I know your anger and frustration. Something similar happened to me long ago. Luckilly, my situation worked out for the better.
    People who say you "cry wolf" or "cause trouble" obviously have no idea how serious this problem can be, or how it mentally takes it's toll on you.

    I will say, that for someone to make a character in your name and attempt to tarnish your name is probably the most pathetic, no-life thing that a person in UO can do.

    My story is kinda long, so feel free to skip it if you'd like. If you're interested in my story, here's what happened to me probably 4 or 5 years ago:

    South of Trinsic in Trammel two houses were next to each other. One was a large tower, the other was an 18x18. The tower went IDOC, so I started camping it. I hid so that nobody would notice anyone waiting.
    After a while, I decided to go to bed.
    When I woke up, it had fallen and everything was taken. So I logged back out. Logged back in later in the day to get myself out of there, when I noticed two guys talking that were in the same guild. One of them owned the 18x18.
    Both of them were waiting for a GM to show up to delete the water trough left behind from the tower collapse. They laid out their master plan to drop the 18x18 and place a keep. All of this went on right in front of me as I stayed hidden.
    When he dropped the 18x18, I swooped in and placed a keep! I know this probably wasn't the nicest thing to do, but it wasn't harrasment or griefing or illegal. It was rude and inconsiderate at best.
    But this is where my problems began.

    This guy left books around towns, banks, moongates, and dungeons calling me all sorts of names, using profanity, and claiming all sorts of things I can't mention here. He used water barrels to block me from getting into my keep. He'd look for me every weekend and threaten to find me and kill me irl. He even got his whole guild involved.

    I paged a GM to put an end to this. GM said that he couldn't do anything to this guy unless he caught him in the act. Phone calls and emails to EA gave me the same answer.

    So one day, I recall to my keep (rune marked far away this time) and sure enough, there had to be 50 water barrels filled to the brim blocking me from getting in. The guy showed up while I was emptying them and started calling me racist names.
    I paged a GM right then and there.
    Then, his whole guild gated themselves into the area and threatened to hunt me down and kill me while I slept at home.
    Boom! GM showed up! They all recalled away faster than a blink of an eye.
    All of them got a 72 hour ban for harassment.

    Now from what I heard, once this guy's ban was up, he went into Luna and starting spamming remarks about me again. Someone else paged on him and he was perma-banned. This is what I heard from my buddies, as I was not there.


    Sorry for the long story, but I wanted to share. Anyway, I don't play on that shard anymore. So that would be my suggestion. Find a different shard to play on. I moved from East coast to West coast shards and it actually works better for me. The times I get to play are usually 10pm-1am EST, which is actually prime time for west coast. And with broadband internet, connection isn't bad at all either.
    May I suggest Sonoma! (shameless plug)

    Anyway, I hope you get some resolve and results in your case. Good luck!
     
  33. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yes, Sonoma is a great shard :D
     
  34. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Thank you so much for posting that! I really appreciate it. I wish GMs were as vigilant now as they were back then. I am definately shopping for shard. :)
     
  35. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    You have to actually try to avoid the harassment. Which can easily be done by leaving general chat. Just telling you what they are going to tell you.
     
  36. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I have played the game for 13 years and have personally known hundreds of players and known of thousands of other players.

    Never once in those 13 years have I heard of a player being "stalked" or harassed to the extent that you speak of. Nothing even close.

    1) players from your own shard are stating that you instigate in chat

    2) it has been pointed out here that you continually rant on the boards about other players supposed injustices against you

    3) in your own words you have paged dozens of times and the gms have found no wrong doing

    4) you are playing a pc game yet you continually talk about getting the police involved.
    If you believe that something only happening ingame is serious enough for the police then maybe you should simply quit for your own safety? Is it not possible for you to quit? I mean you make it sound like you are in danger yet you continue to play? Thats just plain silly. Does anyone believe that you would continue to be so harrassed just so that you can say you didnt give someone the satisfaction of making you quit? Please.

    5) do you enjoy the attention you bring to yourself with all the drama you create on the boards? Hrmmmm.
     
  37. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
    Stratics Veteran The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    9 months of harassing WOW sounds more like this person better face it that he is addicted to Jirel. Jirel is this guy's nicotine his booze he can not get enough of her. He has given Jirel control of what he does in UO. Expensive habit to pay to play a game to just harass someone.
     
  38. jtw1984

    jtw1984 Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm coming to Legends to stalk you next. Sounds like fun!
     
  39. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Harrassment is real in UO as is greifing, and stalking and it mimics the real world.

    On Tv the other night a parent of a little league kid said how bad he got till he got a cold hard look at what he was doing.... it was a NBC anchor. The gentilman was the soft spoken man I watched every night giving news and was as cool as a cucumber under stress (i remember his coverage of the big quake we had) I for one would nver have thought this man would be a bully of little kids till he admitted as his sons coach he had been so. He woke up when he covered a story about another parent who was jailed for doing almost what he had done too.

    We sometimes loose ourselfs to the times and dont see the hurt we do. This gets learned by our kids. Who inturn do the same to others. Its a contagious thing... it gets passed down person to person, year by year, generation to generation. WE need to see our own actions and put an end to it. Put your foot down.

    NO one deserves to be treated this way. WE are not door mats or rugs to be walked on, or pushed into walls. Trailed on like prey of the wolf, we are not sheep, to be stalked in a game or in real life.

    Griefing is not someones right. Just because the GM's wont stop it doesnt mean you are out of control of this. As in real life same as game, ignore them walk away and do something else, yes you might need something they are stopping you from doing or getting but is it worth the pain or agravation?
    Best thing you can do is walk away and ignore them, change characters and do something else. They hate when you ignore them....

    The power to stop this is really in your hands...
     
  40. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    You didn't say what the issue was. Did Player B have a vendor house and now Player A moved in next door?

    If this wasn't in Trammel either the animals could have been killed or the players could have been. It sounds more like the fault of Trammel's restrictive ruleset than a harassment issue.
     
  41. Ken of Napa

    Stratics Veteran

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    Jirel, I agree with the others that say you might want to play another shard for a while. Perhaps not logging into ypur main shard for a couple months or more. Or at least not in any manner that they can tell that you are there.

    If you want to try Napa, I can help you get set up there, there's lots of places that I can show you for an 18 x 18 in Malas, I can give you the gold to place as well. I'd be willing to set you up with what ever you need, so let me know if I can help.

    Ken
     
  42. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    It is immaterial how "innocent" the OP is or isn't, the point of the post is that UO has become a lawless land... the police force (GM's) that are supposed to enforce the rules of the game (TOS) fail to do so. Rampant cheating, harassing language, griefing are not only tolerated, but in many cases it's encouraged through the use of game mechanics.

    As pointed out in post after post, the player base is decreasing. Reasons are many, but one cause is clearly that the level of griefing, harassment, scripting and cheating is driving players (customers) away from the game. Its pathetic business management that these behaviors are allowed to continue.

    But hey! Take heart players of good will.. "UO is a sandbox!" ... and that should make you feel warm all over.
     
  43. The only thing I can suggest is this... move shards, dont play your main or as any name close to your main. Dont post on the forums where you move to. Who knows, maybe the new shard you choose will suit you better anyway :)
    And if it doesnt, at least you get a break from the immaturity.

    Its rough dealing with these things... some say it doesnt happen, but it does... I've dealt with it in many forms on Origin, from being harassed to seeing friends get harassed. I moved to Pac and then to Chessy at one point to get away from the kiddy drama. Paging does nothing and its even worse now that we have global chat since ppl no longer have to track you down in game to harass you.
    I have since moved back to Origin and even with 2 years gone by, sometimes the ppl who did it once, try it again. I dont know, have to have thick skin I suppose to deal with some of it, but mostly I laugh because its funny they take time out of their game play to try and trash me in game or on these forums.
     
  44. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    although i actually agree that there is some stalking and grieving going on like Jiril mentions here in this thread, there are easy ways to avoid it if you really want to get away from stalkers and grievers.

    Name change token, shard transfer tokens, ignore mode etc. If it bothers you this much, there are very easy ways to get away. If he/she finds you again, you are doing something cyber stupid. don't give out your RL info...dissociate from your ingame character a bit. it is not real...

    Biggest thing is to not take this game too seriously, but unfortunately a great bunch of dedicated UO players take this game more serious than life itself. I have heard grown men crying over their game character dying.... People suggest constantly in vent or guild chat that somehow an in game death is a horrible thing, somehow having some meaning beyond pixels. Silly... it doesn't. Do you cry when you loose a pawn in chess? Do you loose it when someone beats you at ping-pong? How about Monopoly? although i did cry once when landing on broadway, I was only 7 and that doesn't count.

    If you feel harrassed in-game, go get out of the house a little. Not saying that you don't have legitimate feelings about the issue, i just think your -adult- feelings are misplaced when it comes to playing games. Don't give out your real life information. If the guy (or girl, who knows, perhaps it is a girl?) shows up at your doorstep, sends you emails, shows up to your work place, calls you on your phone, sends you (inappropriate) gifts to your PO box, that is when it is time to go to the cops. A player character can not hurt you in any sort of real way. Your feelings may get hurt, but then you are just too close to the monitor to be playing sand-box computer games. I hate to say it, but in that case you are better of quitting, for so many reasons other than the issues you complain about. Get some fresh air.
     
  45. Fat Midnight

    Fat Midnight Visitor

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    If she is willing to try Napa I am willing to help finance her relocation.
     
  46. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    As a legends player...I think the problem may be we all know each other too well. We can debate shard pops, but as someone who is on legends pretty much daily, it feels like there are maybe 30 to 50 really active players on legends. Jirel could change her name and it would take almost no time to figure out who she is...from the people she is affiliated with to the way she "sounds" in game.

    I do think posts like this just add fuel to his fire, and you both need to sign a peace treaty or something. Legends is small enough already, we need all our people to stay where they are at.
     
  47. Siteswap

    Siteswap Visitor

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    Thank you for that pointless and useless interjection. And youre a Stratics reporter? FFS!
     
  48. shadowpearl

    shadowpearl Guest

    I understand why you feel this way there are some things here being said that are really insane and may need a reality check.

    Involving law enforcment is insane, and you will be viewed as such unless this individual has personally contacted you through other means. The game doesn't count, especially since in the eyes of outsiders, you have free will to leave the game without any personal danger to your person.

    You plight has to be dealt with EA, and they need to be providing you with a positive gaming experience. I think you absolutely right that certain behavior shouldn't be tolerated in game.

    I'll tell you right now if hypothetically something like this actually went to the authorites and was successful, all hell would break loose in the media and being in communications, I can tell you it will kill the MMO market. Players like us are viewed as nerds and people with no lives in the eyes of media. I don't believe that, and I really think a sterotype of people who can't even handle our computer character lives will be a laughing stalk.

    I understand the passion with this game and I think many don't understand how to deal with harrassment, but like everything else on the net, we choose what we put out there. I think if this individual hasn't contacted you personally or harrassed you through other means then it has to stay with EA. I have had a friend whose had to deal with it before when an individual was harrassing outside an MMO, and it was only then it was able to be taken care of by authorites.

    In the mean time, I always treat people with respect in the game and many other I know do as well. Mostly because we need them to keep this game going.
     
  49. Budwieser

    Budwieser Guest


    Yes.
    I play with Hawk on Pac now. I'm also running with LOAO on Napa.
     
  50. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

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    Oh good, another thread just like every single other it posts. Conveniently not in SnR where it belongs as usual.
     
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