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The economics of dynamic pricing

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Right now, dynamic pricing is looking like a complete failure. Players who have not brought over truckloads of items are unable to compete in the market for EA catalog items because retail prices of items are far in excess of the money making capabilities of players.

    Stores which focus on selling catalog items are purely competitive. They all sell the exact same thing, and so there is no quality-based reason for a shopper to shop anywhere but the cheapest place. Stores know this, and usually sell their items close to the maximum discount they receive so they can keep with the market value of their items.

    The problem right now is that the players are not able to set the market price for items. How much would you pay for a craft bench? $5k? $10k? $100k?

    EA says that their system is based off of supply and demand. In a sense, it is. However, it is far from a free market. EA is setting the prices, not the player.

    Below is a crude sketch up of the above example that I made.

    [​IMG]

    For those who don't understand, I'll clarify. Line D represents the consumer demand for craft benches. Line S represents the supply of craft benches. As you move across line D from left to right, in conjunction with the two axes, you will see that very few to no craft benches are demanded at 6k (these numbers are entirely made up, but they illustrate the same point). However, as the price goes down, consumer demand raises dramatically. As you move along line S, you will see that stores (suppliers) will supply less craft benches at a lower cost, because they are unlikely to make a profit. However, as the price gets goes up, their likelihood to sell them goes up.

    The red line represents the intersection of supply and demand. This is where the average cost is. People should expect to pay on average a little over 3k for a craft bench. However, EA's price is over 6k, which is far more than anyone is willing to pay for a craft bench.

    In all actuality, these numbers are too gracious for the system in place. EA's price is 100k, and the market value for a craft bench would likely be close to 3k. In the above example, players, if they desperately needed a bench, could manage to make the extra 3k to buy it even if they didn't want to. However, in the current system, one could work for months at the robot factory and not even accrue enough funds to buy a work bench. At EA's price, they are simply unattainable.

    Many players were established before this system of pricing came into the game. They are likely holding onto their craft benches in spite of them breaking all the time due to age and wear. Newer players are probably unlikely to get craft benches, or other high priced items.

    What we need is a way to get the EA price down, because it is keeping people from participating in the economy. I have a few ideas...

    1.) A maximum number of repairs on a particular item

    After 10 - 20 repairs, an item becomes "destroyed" and is no longer able to be repaired. It can be salvaged, however, at a better rate than a new item. It would require players to purchase more new items and help to weed out the excess number of items.

    2.) Readjustment of the pricing calculator

    Fix the calculation of prices. Currently, it is not representative for the number of people in the game.

    3.) Do away with dynamic pricing as it currently exists

    My favorite of the options. Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is great, but it is flawed heavily. It does not subscribe to the basic principles of economics at all. In a purely competitive market, like the one we have in EAL, prices are not set based upon the quantity of items that exist, but rather by the willingness of consumers to buy, and sellers to sell.

    This method of pricing was introduced to encourage players to buy the lesser used items. It does not work! There are no substitutes for many of the job and skill items, pets, beds, and misc items! You cannot purchase an alternative cheaper version to help "balance the types of items in the game" because such alternatives simply aren't there.

    Dynamic pricing needs to be removed. At current, it would be best to go back to the old system of pricing. Hopefully if we get rid of it, we can move forward with a new system that removes that catalog, and subscribes to real economics.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    woah.

    I fly.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Bravo!!!! thpride88, what you said makes a lot of sense to me!!!! [​IMG]
     
  4. MysticNyte

    MysticNyte Guest

    The only way to make a competive real economy is to let the players set the prices...

    Shops shouldn't have to pay but very little for the items that come from EA....

    than like I said ..let the players set the prices.

    I think they all slept though their economic corses in college [​IMG]
     
  5. Shyanne1

    Shyanne1 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The only way to make a competive real economy is to let the players set the prices...

    Shops shouldn't have to pay but very little for the items that come from EA....

    than like I said ..let the players set the prices.

    I think they all slept though their economic corses in college [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is a good idea in theory and it might work in the real world because in the real world it's real money. In EA Land if shop owners were able to buy things for very little then people would just change their houses to a shop and buy the things they need and then change back or they would buy cheap and sell to all their friends or, alliances we might call them, and the items would still be unatainable for the casual player. See the game is no longer set up for the casual player. You would have to almost play 24/7 in order to get anywhere in the game and then people wonder why there are AFKers in the game. Building costs should be free since they don't add anything to the game. Building walls and trees doesn't help your property yet one support post can cost you $6000. There is no creativity in the game any longer because people can't afford to be creative. It simply is too expensive. They build a #8 lot, enclose it with walls and have the same different sections as everyone else. People have said don't go to the top 100 houses. If I want to get anywhere in the game I have to go where the people are. The game has been set up so you can't roam around to 1 and 2 people houses and expect to advance in the game. The $500 a week bonus is ridiculous. When item cost is astronomical how is $500 going to help or motivate anyone. I kinda look at it as an insult. As I've said before and I'm sure that I'll get the same replies is that there are NO rewards in the game and any rewards that your personal goals might get you are not attainable. The bots are never going to go away no matter how much we want them to. If that were even possible then they would of been gone years ago. People can argue that they just started trying to get rid of the bots but in 5 years if they haven't figured out how to do it then they won't anytime soon.

    Bring back the old game. I couldn't care less if I ever got on the top 100 but it would be nice to at least BE on the board so if I made a unique house someone would see it and come to see what it is all about. If I don't have a top 10 skill or money house I'm supposed to just wait in my house to see if people might happen along my red dot and come visit? Does anyone not see how ridicuous it sounds? I could go on but frankly I'm disapointed that after 3 years I was so excited to come back because the advertisment said it was a new, improved game.
     
  6. 24 Jolly's

    24 Jolly's Guest

    I agree with you....I had the number #1 skill house in CC now I can't even get people in the door except for friends that have been there before. All the players are crammed into one little box while the legacy cities are dying. As far as the dynamic pricing is concerned it needs desperately to be looked at or reworked or there will be no dynamic in this game!
     
  7. I agree that dynamic pricings is not working on many objects. I believe there should only be dynamic pricing on items we can currently create ourselves aka chairs, sculptures and tables. Until other items can be manufactured we are still relying on EA to set costs of some objects. Without the ability to create some of these objects, of course there is too many of them in the world and will drive prices up.

    Regarding the idea of objects becoming unrepairable at some point...I would rather see a new interaction given to mech skilled sims. Only sims with a certain amount of mech and creativy would be allowed to repair or salvage these objects. This would open up a new service category that allows players to start their own business. Players could sell their unusable objects to such businesses and they in turn could refurbish and resell them.

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.
     
  8. Nice analyses, thpride88! You hit the nail when you stated, 'EA is setting the prices, not the player'. Dynamic pricing is not automated, which it should be. If it was, your theory of average pricing based on supply and demand would be in place - obviously it isn't. Pricing, skilling speeds and payouts are all currently based on the impetuous whims of Luc et al., and not on some automated formulae that has been coded into the game, which would be more fair and equitable...
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Nice analyses, thpride88! You hit the nail when you stated, 'EA is setting the prices, not the player'. Dynamic pricing is not automated, which it should be. If it was, your theory of average pricing based on supply and demand would be in place - obviously it isn't. Pricing, skilling speeds and payouts are all currently based on the impetuous whims of Luc et al., and not on some automated formulae that has been coded into the game, which would be more fair and equitable...

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Link

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Just to remind everyone for the 4,345,834th time.............
    Automatic dynamic pricing is NOT............. NOT........... NOT in the game yet.
    All pricing is done manually on the dev's decision.


    [/ QUOTE ]I would like to address this comment. Today I spoke to Lee about this because I wanted to verify the validity of your statement. This is a topic I have discussed with him many times over the last 6-8 months.

    He told me today that dynamic pricing has in fact been implemented and it is automatic. The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs. Players with huge inventories should be selling under catalog prices. If items were deleted it would bring the catalog prices down, but since there is so much it would take a large concerted effort of the players to make a difference.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Another link.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically. In a general sense the more in the world the more they cost and the less in the world the less they cost. Yes there is in fact a formula that does this automatically and we will probably not share the exact formula. It does include a supply/demand curve and population is a factor.

    However, never presume that just because it is done dynamically and automatically that we can not also override it manually.

    Cheers,

    Lee

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Soooo.....are you calling Lee a liar? [​IMG]

    edited to include second quote.

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Nice analyses, thpride88! You hit the nail when you stated, 'EA is setting the prices, not the player'. Dynamic pricing is not automated, which it should be. If it was, your theory of average pricing based on supply and demand would be in place - obviously it isn't. Pricing, skilling speeds and payouts are all currently based on the impetuous whims of Luc et al., and not on some automated formulae that has been coded into the game, which would be more fair and equitable...

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Link

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Just to remind everyone for the 4,345,834th time.............
    Automatic dynamic pricing is NOT............. NOT........... NOT in the game yet.
    All pricing is done manually on the dev's decision.


    [/ QUOTE ]I would like to address this comment. Today I spoke to Lee about this because I wanted to verify the validity of your statement. This is a topic I have discussed with him many times over the last 6-8 months.

    He told me today that dynamic pricing has in fact been implemented and it is automatic. The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs. Players with huge inventories should be selling under catalog prices. If items were deleted it would bring the catalog prices down, but since there is so much it would take a large concerted effort of the players to make a difference.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Another link.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically. In a general sense the more in the world the more they cost and the less in the world the less they cost. Yes there is in fact a formula that does this automatically and we will probably not share the exact formula. It does include a supply/demand curve and population is a factor.

    However, never presume that just because it is done dynamically and automatically that we can not also override it manually.

    Cheers,

    Lee

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Soooo.....are you calling Lee a liar? [​IMG]

    edited to include second quote.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Where did I say that Lee what lying?

    Thanks for the link.. guess I was wrong, eh? [​IMG]
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is stupid.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Nice analyses, thpride88! You hit the nail when you stated, 'EA is setting the prices, not the player'. Dynamic pricing is not automated, which it should be. If it was, your theory of average pricing based on supply and demand would be in place - obviously it isn't. Pricing, skilling speeds and payouts are all currently based on the impetuous whims of Luc et al., and not on some automated formulae that has been coded into the game, which would be more fair and equitable...

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Link

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Just to remind everyone for the 4,345,834th time.............
    Automatic dynamic pricing is NOT............. NOT........... NOT in the game yet.
    All pricing is done manually on the dev's decision.


    [/ QUOTE ]I would like to address this comment. Today I spoke to Lee about this because I wanted to verify the validity of your statement. This is a topic I have discussed with him many times over the last 6-8 months.

    He told me today that dynamic pricing has in fact been implemented and it is automatic. The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs. Players with huge inventories should be selling under catalog prices. If items were deleted it would bring the catalog prices down, but since there is so much it would take a large concerted effort of the players to make a difference.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Another link.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically. In a general sense the more in the world the more they cost and the less in the world the less they cost. Yes there is in fact a formula that does this automatically and we will probably not share the exact formula. It does include a supply/demand curve and population is a factor.

    However, never presume that just because it is done dynamically and automatically that we can not also override it manually.

    Cheers,

    Lee

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Soooo.....are you calling Lee a liar? [​IMG]

    edited to include second quote.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Nobody is calling him a liar - his explanation is incomplete, and there is a little bit of "fog factor".
    To say "dynamic" pricing is implemented is simply saying it is being done - not necessarily automatically. It was Niki that said it was automatic, not Lee - he said "Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically."
    Two seperate actions.
    Plus - he also said that that the adjusted price could be manually overridden, which renders "dynamic" pricing moot.

    Imagine, if you will, going to the Supermarket on tuesday and buying a can of soup for $1, then returning the following week to find that same soup now costs $3, $4, or even $5.

    Now, I'm not trying to pick apart every little sentence, find an error in every statement, or suggest wrongdoing on anybody's part - but, giving a logical, reasonable, sensible, explanation for the unbelievable, inconceivable mess that is our so-called "economy", would go a long way toward calming people down.
    Since I DON'T believe the devs want a whole bunch of pissed-off players breathing down their necks day-in and day-out, I have to wonder WHY somebody can't take 15 minutes to put to rest 3-4 months of speculation?
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Have you guys not noticed gas prices lately? The more that's out there the higher the prices go...they just tell you there is less [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can not wait for this feature. This will be the best thing to happen to EA Land.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The real problem is that many players stocked all their lots full of items. Met a player in game that let me know she had access to 18 lots packed full of stuff, and wow how nice for her. They purchased all this stuff because they knew they would be losing their money and wanted to be able to make money after the move. Over the past two weeks I have seen prices consistently come down in the catalogue as the supply is getting sold.

    A problem coming for those storing all that stuff is with custom content on the move, all those objects they stored up will be useless when scripting comes along. Scripting will replace the many objects being stored and purchased from the catalogue. Once scripting is enabled, people will not want to buy that old stuff, they will want custom skill and money objects to match.

    Currently, I have a store with custom content and no visitors. It isn't because I don't have access to cheaper stuff in the catalogue, it's because I don't have the hours to park 4 sims AFK for 24 hours a day on my lot to rise to the map view. Maintenance changes the hours on the lot, and the cycle begins again.

    The few that have stopped in at my lot were amazed at my custom content, to which no one has. The neat thing about custom content is there is the potential for tons of it, with many creative people creating it. For a moment I thought about offering ordering, but the time it takes is to long to make a player wait and the expense to high to take the risk.

    For me I am playing in my service lot, and going to avatar work until scripting comes out. I already have several objects such as jam stations and book cases ready for upload when EA Land gives us the green light to proceed. Gonna spend my time making the capitol it will take to make them in mass numbers.

    The game is changing, and the old ways just aren't gonna be the best ways anymore.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The real problem is that many players stocked all their lots full of items. Met a player in game that let me know she had access to 18 lots packed full of stuff, and wow how nice for her. They purchased all this stuff because they knew they would be losing their money and wanted to be able to make money after the move. Over the past two weeks I have seen prices consistently come down in the catalogue as the supply is getting sold.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Even before some of the more recent merges, the prices were still ridiculously high. Many items were going for their legacy city value, but players were only able to earn EAL wages for their efforts. I noticed this in particular with jam tables and bookshelves.
     
  17. I haven't been able to sell much of anything even with rock bottom low prices. (Let's be frank...I haven't sold a darn thing!!!)

    So I'm not sure where these people are shopping but my prices are fairly 'average' for EALand. I've thought about marking everything down and just saying 'wipe me out' so I can have my houses back!!!

    People in EAland have to remember that even though we brought 'stuff'. By the time our 'stuff' got here, mostly everyone was already 're-established' and our 'stuff' is irrelevant. That includes 'cc'. Who wants my blue morrocan chairs for $50 when they can buy cc chairs that look like cars?

    I think the game needs to mature a bit for everything like prices and economies to come into anything that looks normal.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can not wait for this feature. This will be the best thing to happen to EA Land.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Huh? I thot that idea was dead.
    I can't see having to go to an auction to try to buy a friggin' tip jar, or any other mundane object.
    I can't imagine a worse log jam in the game than 150 players crowding into 1 or 2 EA sites to try to buy the necessary for their lots.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can not wait for this feature. This will be the best thing to happen to EA Land.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Huh? I thot that idea was dead.
    I can't see having to go to an auction to try to buy a friggin' tip jar, or any other mundane object.
    I can't imagine a worse log jam in the game than 150 players crowding into 1 or 2 EA sites to try to buy the necessary for their lots.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well, if the EA-Land auction is anything like the Auction they use in WoW... I will be all over it. It truly makes everything easier than lot hopping or simply trying to find what you are looking for.

    Plus in an auction you are forced to competitively price.
    Which is a whole different debate.

    I'm interested to see how it would work before I say I love it... or not ..
     
  20. Oh yeah, I'm all for it!!

    I think an auction house would really work for us in EAland. I really hope that's something they can bring into the game for us. I'd also like to see the 'intergame' mail system similar to the one on WoW.

    As mainly a crafter, an AH could be used as an outlet to wholesale my crafted items to store owners without having to do the 'let's make a deal' trip through out the city.

    No more buying up a bunch of pianos and smashing them to get supplies. Just buy a stack of cloth or parts or whatever from the AH. It's something that could provide good income to many people doing many different little jobs.

    (Speaking of supplies, it would be nice if they would 'stack'...be able to have 20 'cloth' boxes in one inventory square.)

    Our SimEAlandian society is so 'square' and stuck in the box. We need to break out of that box and make our society much more complex and diverse than it is now.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can not wait for this feature. This will be the best thing to happen to EA Land.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Huh? I thot that idea was dead.
    I can't see having to go to an auction to try to buy a friggin' tip jar, or any other mundane object.
    I can't imagine a worse log jam in the game than 150 players crowding into 1 or 2 EA sites to try to buy the necessary for their lots.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well, if the EA-Land auction is anything like the Auction they use in WoW... I will be all over it. It truly makes everything easier than lot hopping or simply trying to find what you are looking for.

    Plus in an auction you are forced to competitively price.
    Which is a whole different debate.

    I'm interested to see how it would work before I say I love it... or not ..

    [/ QUOTE ]
    What has that got to do with "easy"?
    I like "easy" - "easy" is good - "easy" is our friend.

    Why do I care if a tip jar, or a toilet, or a decorative hedge, or a tiki torch is competitively priced? I just want to pop in, buy it, and get out.
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Besides having to access auctions from an auction house, why not have an 'auction' kiosk that can be purchased and placed on a lot. (Similar to ATM's).

    The auction kiosk could be clicked on and the list of auction items/categories seen.

    That way 'store' owners could still be in the mix of things?
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is stupid.

    [/ QUOTE ]I understand your thought processes here, but you've got it all wrong; you're not taking the concept far enough. When there are a gazillion of something floating around in the market, you'd think that supply is far greater than demand, and you'd be right - at the retail level. However, since the stores cannot make these objects themselves, they have to come from somewhere. They come from a "manufacturer/wholesaler" -- EA-land's catalog, in this case. Since there's a gazillion of these things floating around the retail market, they all had to be bought from the wholesaler. The wholesaler sees this as a huge demand, and so raises prices - which is what the retailer sees when he or she tries to buy even more of what's already flooding the retail market.

    Does this make better sense now?
     
  24. Say if we had 100 people and 80 of them wanted blue chairs and the other 20 wanted red chairs.

    It would mean that the blue chairs are more desirable than the red and thus more in demand. So they would be more expensive.

    Now here is where stores in real have to take a gamble....they have to look at those red chairs and decide if they may be needed in the near future and if they think they'll be popular, then buy up extra.

    Maybe the blue chairs give cancer and now everyone wants red ones? Maybe Green ones come out and red ones become even less desirable.

    That's why people just 'store sitting' in the new city will ultimately 'lose out' because they don't know what the players are talking about. Popular places with good profits will have a foot not only in their stores but out in the world too.

    So if someone were business savy, they would have checked out many of us that brought 'wholesale' houses with us and made a deal with us to get 'cheap' stock for their own stores.

    This would be a great opportunity to go into 'wholesale' shops. Buy when something is cheap. Offer it when it gets more expensive or sell it to crafters to salvagte.....It's all in your imagination to make this economy work.

    I tried to create a 'store owner's warehouse in AV'. I'd put in some crafted items for very reasonable prices. Only store owners were allowed in...and I would check their houses. They could take that item and place it in their own store with a little mark up and make a good profit.

    But too many are like....I'll just make my own crafter and my own craft house and salvage my own cloth and stock my own store.

    So many players are being left out of that loop for sure.

    Think outside the box people before you let the unnept magician saw you in half.
     
  25. Twisted Soul

    Twisted Soul Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Have you guys not noticed gas prices lately? The more that's out there the higher the prices go...they just tell you there is less [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, standard economics says the opposite. Demand is the key word. The higher the demand, the higher the price.
     
  26. Shyanne1

    Shyanne1 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Say if we had 100 people and 80 of them wanted blue chairs and the other 20 wanted red chairs.

    It would mean that the blue chairs are more desirable than the red and thus more in demand. So they would be more expensive.

    Now here is where stores in real have to take a gamble....they have to look at those red chairs and decide if they may be needed in the near future and if they think they'll be popular, then buy up extra.

    Maybe the blue chairs give cancer and now everyone wants red ones? Maybe Green ones come out and red ones become even less desirable.

    That's why people just 'store sitting' in the new city will ultimately 'lose out' because they don't know what the players are talking about. Popular places with good profits will have a foot not only in their stores but out in the world too.

    So if someone were business savy, they would have checked out many of us that brought 'wholesale' houses with us and made a deal with us to get 'cheap' stock for their own stores.

    This would be a great opportunity to go into 'wholesale' shops. Buy when something is cheap. Offer it when it gets more expensive or sell it to crafters to salvagte.....It's all in your imagination to make this economy work.

    I tried to create a 'store owner's warehouse in AV'. I'd put in some crafted items for very reasonable prices. Only store owners were allowed in...and I would check their houses. They could take that item and place it in their own store with a little mark up and make a good profit.

    But too many are like....I'll just make my own crafter and my own craft house and salvage my own cloth and stock my own store.

    So many players are being left out of that loop for sure.

    Think outside the box people before you let the unnept magician saw you in half.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Wouldn't it be a good idea to figure out where these blue chairs reside? I don't think it is fair for a store owner to be able to buy up 100 of them and drive the price up and then just sit on them.

    I did have a hard time figuring out why the price went up when there were more out there and your post helped me a lot so thanks!

    What about when stores have too much inventory and end up having to give stuff at a discount because no one is buying it? The dynamic pricing doesn't take into consideration that. So I think that the more the stores have the less the item costs in the cataloge. Just a thought. It might not work but I think they should of never allowed objects to be transferred to EA Land if they were going to put dynamic pricing in effect right away. SO not fair to new players and players that had nothing to start with.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically. In a general sense <font color="red"> the more in the world the more they cost and the less in the world the less they cost. </font> Yes there is in fact a formula that does this automatically and we will probably not share the exact formula. It does include a supply/demand curve and population is a factor.]

    Ok, to me, this seems a little backwards. If there is too much or too many of something, generally speaking, the prices usually go down, and if there is not enough, prices usually go up because of supply and damand. Like when the oranges freeze in California or Florida, they don't have as many to sell, so the prices go up, or if a toy company makes an excessive amount of a certain toy for a particular holiday, since there is an over abundance of them, the prices normally go down? This is not what I am seeing in the game here.

    Or am I the one who is backwards? LOL!! [​IMG]
     
  28. Shyanne1

    Shyanne1 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    [Prices are in fact calculated dynamically and adjusted automatically. In a general sense <font color="red"> the more in the world the more they cost and the less in the world the less they cost. </font> Yes there is in fact a formula that does this automatically and we will probably not share the exact formula. It does include a supply/demand curve and population is a factor.]

    Ok, to me, this seems a little backwards. If there is too much or too many of something, generally speaking, the prices usually go down, and if there is not enough, prices usually go up because of supply and damand. Like when the oranges freeze in California or Florida, they don't have as many to sell, so the prices go up, or if a toy company makes an excessive amount of a certain toy for a particular holiday, since there is an over abundance of them, the prices normally go down? This is not what I am seeing in the game here.

    Or am I the one who is backwards? LOL!! [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    See this makes so much sense to me but somehow the other way made sense too. I would rather have this scenario though lol
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The more of an item in the world the more it costs, the less the less it costs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is stupid.

    [/ QUOTE ]I understand your thought processes here, but you've got it all wrong; you're not taking the concept far enough. When there are a gazillion of something floating around in the market, you'd think that supply is far greater than demand, and you'd be right - at the retail level. However, since the stores cannot make these objects themselves, they have to come from somewhere. They come from a "manufacturer/wholesaler" -- EA-land's catalog, in this case. Since there's a gazillion of these things floating around the retail market, they all had to be bought from the wholesaler. The wholesaler sees this as a huge demand, and so raises prices - which is what the retailer sees when he or she tries to buy even more of what's already flooding the retail market.

    Does this make better sense now?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It does not make sense. The number of items that exist in the city is not a proper indicator of demand. Just look at a real life example. Most of us have a VHS player (whether we use it or not is another question), but that doesn't mean that the demand for VHS players is great. Same thing goes with EAL. Players change their preferences over time. Chalkboards used to be extremely popular. Then jams. Then typing. Now jams appear to be the most popular again.

    Now, after I just deconstructed your point, I will agree with it - slightly. I think number of items is a weak indicator of demand. But only a weak one. Because some items break while others dont, the actual demand is quite different from the demand reported by these calculations. Some items are owned by many people (think expensive decor, pizza, maze, etc) but the actual demand is much lower, because it is more economical for people to just repair their items than it is to buy a new one. These are things which the current method of price calculation does not account for.

    I entirely agree with your economical analysis of the dynamic pricing issue. The wholesaler, which in this case is a monopoly known as EA, is the sole distributor of items to stores, and can maximize profits by selling high because they have no competition.

    Here's the my real beef with this current method of pricing. The way it is calculated entirely takes the pricing out of the consumer's hands. In a real life market, if a monopoly began to raise their prices like EA has, people would start to sell used items amongst themselves and undercut the monopoly (think used textbook markets). The monopoly would be forced to lower its prices so that people would go back to them to get their items. In this case, because prices are based on the number of items, when people sell used items amongst themselves, they are not removed from the game, which keeps the price of items in the catalog the same. And markets like this have arose.

    If dynamic pricing is to truly be dynamic, the following needs to take place. EAL needs to slash prices all the way down to the original EAL price. Then, they need to establish a baseline of demand for various items. Monitor the number of jam tables that sell over a month, and do this every month. Once a baseline is established, compare the baseline number of purchases to the number of purchases during a given segment of time. If this number is higher than the baseline, raise prices to reap the profits. If it is lower, lower prices to entice people to purchase more.

    If I were EA, I would wait a good deal of time after I cut prices before determining a baseline. With retailers having such large stocks of items, it will be awhile before they begin to make regular catalog purchases.

    See how this is based solely on demand, and not population of items in the game? This is how it really should work...
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Another problem with current dynamic pricing is they have yet to implement the auction sale of items and remove the catalog completely. Once these set catalog prices have been removed and players are allowed to take part in EA auctions by bidding on objects , we will see prices fluctuate. The market will then more realistically reflect the value of objects. Players will bid and purchase objects and their bids will reflect the cost and resell price of these objects.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can not wait for this feature. This will be the best thing to happen to EA Land.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Huh? I thot that idea was dead.
    I can't see having to go to an auction to try to buy a friggin' tip jar, or any other mundane object.
    I can't imagine a worse log jam in the game than 150 players crowding into 1 or 2 EA sites to try to buy the necessary for their lots.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well, if the EA-Land auction is anything like the Auction they use in WoW... I will be all over it. It truly makes everything easier than lot hopping or simply trying to find what you are looking for.

    Plus in an auction you are forced to competitively price.
    Which is a whole different debate.

    I'm interested to see how it would work before I say I love it... or not ..

    [/ QUOTE ]
    What has that got to do with "easy"?
    I like "easy" - "easy" is good - "easy" is our friend.

    Why do I care if a tip jar, or a toilet, or a decorative hedge, or a tiki torch is competitively priced? I just want to pop in, buy it, and get out.
    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Of course. I'm an immediate gratification type of girl. When I compare it to what I've seen in wow, there is a "Buy It Now" option. Thats how I would roll.

    I don't know what the design is for the Auction House. What is planned or any of that.

    I'm speaking off the cuff...
     
  31. Shyanne1

    Shyanne1 Guest

    ok, what about building costs? Why are they so high?
     
  32. I sell craft benches at $900 [​IMG].

    Anyhow, yes dynamic pricing is a failure.

    This system should work in a different way.

    Shouldn't it be the more items, the less the price, the less items the more the price? Or like supply and demand?n
     
  33. Why not set up upper and lower price limits for each object. For example, Morrocan beds could have a low limit of 1k and a upper limit of 3k. Prices will fluctuate between those limits as supply and demand changes. There should be no reason why an object should cost 1k one minute and 20k the next. The limits will make it easier for stores to keep catalogue items in stock, because right now, it is more desirable to just sell CC, clothes and crafts.

    It is making it MAD hard to run a store... and to not have an idea of what an item is expected to cost. I can go to Walmart &amp; know what to expect a can of soup (like in Donavans example) costs...or anything else I regularly shop for, for that matter.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ok, to me, this seems a little backwards. If there is too much or too many of something, generally speaking, the prices usually go down, and if there is not enough, prices usually go up because of supply and damand. Like when the oranges freeze in California or Florida, they don't have as many to sell, so the prices go up

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think there is a flaw here but it's hard to grasp. What Katherine wrote was pointing in the right direction though.

    We are only seeing this from the customer's view point.

    If a store is buying 1000 dogs, the dog breeder sees this and raises his prices.
    Hell, if someone comes into my store and buys out all my cc chairs, and comes back wanting more and more, I probably price them higher.

    In wow, if I put 10 bunches of light feathers in the AH for 1G per bunch - if someone buys them all within 2 minutes, I will price them at 5G the next time.
    If they still sell quickly I'm gonna start farming the Arakkoa full time [​IMG]
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    well, if the EA-Land auction is anything like the Auction they use in WoW... I will be all over it. It truly makes everything easier than lot hopping or simply trying to find what you are looking for.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am TOTALLY AGAINST having anything similar to an Auction House in EA Land.

    That for me is one of the worst parts of Wow, that nobody can create things that are unique, you can't bring your own personality into the game. You can't make stores. You can't make anything that sticks out from the mass.
    The only thing you can do, is to follow the same old boring quest chains and do what Blizzard has planned for you to do.
    If you are a crafter - for instance a tailor - you can't personalize your items at all. The only thing you can compete with / make money on, is if you get hold of a very rare recipe. Or if you play the AH and try to compete with prices.

    In EA Land you build a store and put your own personalized items for sale.
    You compete by having good service, good quality items, good prices, nice personalized content.
    The whole fun about it is going around stores and checking what they have!

    Another example is SWG for instance:
    There are Auctions where you can put anything, but also player-owned malls and stores that have the "good stuff".
    I don't know how well a mixed sales environment would work. It's always more difficult for a shop owner to make it, if there also is an alternative.

    Nope, I don't want any auction houses. Closest thing to it might be a flea market, but people still have to go there, and it should be carefully regulated so it doesn't destroy the personal stores, which are one of the best features in this game.
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    HAS ANYONE NOTICED HOW QUIET IT IS THESE DAYS
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As a lot designer, I am not even playing the game anymore. I feel like I'm in Zimbabwe [​IMG]

    Drop me a note when creativity is back in the game again (apart from CC) and people can actually afford a designer who even builds for free.
     
  38. poppet

    poppet Guest

    I think anything sold should be made. For instance where does food come from? Shouldnt food come from cooking so each time you make jam it goes into the food supply, which in turn is used to stock fridges. Or when making Gnomes each gnome counts for a certain amount of store goods. Or blackboards should count for the overall amount of skill that can be used. So in essence, like rl if we dont manufacture the goods to make a tv, we cant have a tv
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Anyhow, yes dynamic pricing is a failure.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    No - actually, this is how it works in the RL.
    What *is* a failure, is EA's simulation of dynamic pricing. They are confusing 'popularity' with 'demand'.
    They look around and see (for instance) 10,000 pizza machines in existence and think "Wow, the demand for pizza machines is very high - I need to raise the price." But, It's not 'demand' - it's 'popularity'.
    'Demand' would look around and see that only a handful of pizza machines
    have been sold and think "Wow, there is no demand for pizza machines, I need to lower the price."

    Stores with a lot of stock on hand are not part of the equation, nor are pre-existing items - only new retail sales impact the numbers, which are then further modified (up or down) by the 'supply' side of the equation.


    This is the difference.
     
  40. Exactly - it should be based on sales stats, i.e., 'hot' items, and not on the number of a particular item that exists in the game. A store could place 900 elephant tables out for sale and not sell one ever... It looks as if elephant tables are a hot item, when in reality they are not. It's just a store with a bad business plan lol.. [​IMG]
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Anyhow, yes dynamic pricing is a failure.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    No - actually, this is how it works in the RL.
    What *is* a failure, is EA's simulation of dynamic pricing. They are confusing 'popularity' with 'demand'.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure.

    The thing that messed everything up, was the merges.

    If 10000 pizza machines suddenly appeared out of thin air, I think real life economy would be messed up too.

    This system could well work, we have no idea, since we're only seeing the messed up version when all this stuff suddenly popped in.
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Anyhow, yes dynamic pricing is a failure.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    No - actually, this is how it works in the RL.
    What *is* a failure, is EA's simulation of dynamic pricing. They are confusing 'popularity' with 'demand'.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure.

    The thing that messed everything up, was the merges.

    If 10000 pizza machines suddenly appeared out of thin air, I think real life economy would be messed up too.

    This system could well work, we have no idea, since we're only seeing the messed up version when all this stuff suddenly popped in.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    It's possible.
    In which case, re-setting the system as if this was day one should take care of the problem.
    But, I don't think the system is set up that way. From what Luc and Lee have said, it is the number of existing items.