1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

The Future of KR Client - Official Dev Statement Please!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by hawkeye_pike, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    The KR client was a great idea, however it never had been finished thoroughly. Although KR is really playable meanwhile, it still suffers from a lot of unsolved issues. Those problems have been posted on these boards for months. Problems like:

    - Can't add friends to a house
    - Hotbar macros sometimes mess up
    - Macros need a revamp to compete with 2D functionality (like use item type)
    - Containers should be resizable
    - Map is a graphical nightmare
    - Several minor graphics issues
    - Targeting issues
    - Character reputation colors not showing
    - and many more...

    Dear Developers and Game Designers! Please make an official statement about the future of the KR client! Tell us whether the client will be enhanced and improved soon, or whether it will be dumped. Fill us in on some details about your plans!

    To my opinion, the players of UO have deserved a clear statement. There have been tons of suggestions and bug reports here and in-game. You cannot just ignore your loyal player base.

    I will bump this threat infinitely until it will be answered by an official EA staff member.
     
  2. Ash

    Ash Guest

    There maybe better examples of proving a point you are trying to make about Macros as the Bandage Self one is extremely easy and works great in KR. The only problem I have with Macros is something that even 2D has to use UOA for and that is target by type. Bandage Self is as simple as dragging bandages to a hotbar slot and changing target to self. One major problem with bandages and other consumables in the hotbar is the darn thing counts items in your bank box so it will not work if have bandages, potions or whatever in your bank as well.
     
  3. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    425
    Don't kid yourself. KR was never a great idea.
     
  4. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    I'm rather baffled by this example, as I have never once managed to get BandageSelf to work in the 2D client.
     
  5. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Perhaps it would go something like this:

    We apologize for not learning form the past and created a second client that was only half finished. We also apologize for releasing the client long before it was ready. We will continue to patch KR so that that small portion of the player-base that enjoys it can continue to use the client, however major development of KR is not in the budget. Fear not, we will surely repeat these efforts with a new client in 3-4 years.
     
  6. Farscape

    Farscape Guest

    If you have a car thats a lemon and you respray it its still a lemon
     
  7. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    I am not interested in apologies, I just want a clear statement about whether or not the KR client has a future, and when we will see appropriate changes/patches.

    And, I doubt that only a small portion of players is interested in KR.
     
  8. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    >Can't add friends to a house

    Yes you can. After you grant them access you can change the access level to Friend. It's a bit cumbersome compared to just Friending them, but it can be done.

    What you CAN'T do is remove them. I don't know if this is new or not but the other day I was cleaning up the Friend list on my castle. Every time I'd relog they would be back on the list. I submitted a bug report on it.

    As for the 'only a small portion of players are interested in KR' meme, it's something that the KR haters think will become true if they repeat if often enough.
     
  9. Finch

    Finch Guest

    Really playable??? On what kind of machine??? It is very laggy on mine and my computer really isn't that old. I don't log into KR unless I plan on doing things that I can't die.
     
  10. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    .

    I don't need to repeat it to make it come true, the client does a good job of that on it's own. I believe we ae 14 months past when this KRap thing was released as ready for the gaming world, and still bulltion boards are not fixed, I could list even more, but I am not one to pile on.
     
  11. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    You can run it on a $300 computer with a $30 graphics adapter. On this machine it will run smooth as glass. KR is actually a 3D game with extremely low hardware requirements.

    To be more specific: 2 GHz CPU, 1 GB RAM, GeForce 7600 graphics adapter. That's all you need. I have no lag whatsoever.
     
  12. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    It's not 3D ! ! !

    And the hardware requirements continues to be shifted from the original one.
     
  13. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Or, as my grandfather always said, "You can't polish a turd."

    I have 2 out of 12 characters I can play comfortably in KR, the rest regularly encounter some game-breaking bug/glitch/crash. Sometimes I load up KR on those 2 characters just to give it (another) second chance, but it's usually a fairly bittersweet experience. I had high hopes for KR.. (and 3D, UXO, UO2).
     
  14. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10,746
    Likes Received:
    8
    Wow, that is a serious bug.

    -Skylark
     
  15. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    That's a croc of [censored]

    I have a custom built machine, here are the specs (from DXDIAX)

    ------------------
    System Information
    ------------------
    Time of this report: 7/28/2008, 10:36:15
    Machine name: JIMMYPC
    Operating System: Windows XP Professional x64 Edition (5.2, Build 3790) Service Pack 2 (3790.srv03_sp2_gdr.070321-2337)
    Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
    System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
    System Model: P5K Premium
    BIOS: Default System BIOS
    Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
    Memory: 8190MB RAM
    Page File: 1693MB used, 8115MB available
    Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
    DX Setup Parameters: Not found
    DxDiag Version: 5.03.3790.3959 64bit Unicode
    ---------------
    Display Devices
    ---------------
    Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
    Manufacturer: NVIDIA
    Chip type: GeForce 8800 GT
    DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
    Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0611&SUBSYS_C8013842&REV_A2
    Display Memory: 512.0 MB
    Current Mode: 1440 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
    Monitor: Default Monitor

    Yes, I run a 64-bit system and 8 gig's of RAM.

    I can run multiple copies of Everquest and WoW at the same time and now lag, even on raids. Yet, A SINGLE instance of KR will lag my system.
     
  16. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    Well, I don't know about the rest of the people, but at this point, to me, KR is simply a way of checking quickly through my boxes of stuff. The list view makes that quick. Otherwise, honestly, I still find the client unusable for a variety of reasons:

    - Interface changes from 2D to KR are a huge learning curve
    - Interface isn't even as friendly as the 3D interfaces it mimics
    - 2D artwork is fine, but shouldn't need to run in it, but...
    - KR artwork for everything but the world environment remain TERRIBLE...
    - KR artwork is way too thick, way too blurry, and still no sign of getting better
    - KR lighting, even on my system (3.4 duo-core, 4gb ram, XFire 512x2 cards, etc), is horrendous
    - Classic container gumps are REDICULOUSLY huge compared to TINY icons inside
    - Character movement, good god, mob movement... what's so hard about animating them so that their movement looks natural? Games do this ALL THE TIME.
    - Going to stop now before I get lost...

    Honestly, I would LOVE KR to work the way it was hyped. Right now, it's a desolate, barren landscape with no hope of redemption.

    Right, and that's why I don't understand why they chose the route they did. I mean, honestly, the thing is really just another 2D client, but with a "modern" interface. Funny that if they'd just sit down with the 2D client, take its interface, clean it up, add some in-game tips of appropriate nature, and then move it over to a 3D engine, they'd be fine.

    The problem with the 3D client wasn't the interface. It was memory management and horrendous graphics. They still don't understand that though.

    And this new playerbase claiming that the interface was hard to learn... well, there are ways to combat that. First way is CONSISTENCY IN DESIGN.

    How do you redeed this item?
    - Axe it (yet axing can destroy items)
    - Double-click it (shouldn't they ALL be like that?)

    How do you store this item?
    - This commodity stacks
    - This commodity does not stack

    How does this armor piece you're looking at affect your armor?
    - Couldn't we get a gump that does this?

    So on and so forth...

    Yes, I think the 2D client needs to go. No, I don't think KR is the answer unless they put TONS of love into it (which they're NOT going to do).
     
  17. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    Well, the specs I mentioned ARE my system, and KR runs smooth as glass. Your system is clearly overpowered for KR. If you have lag problems, I only can imagine that
    a) your internet connection is bad, or
    b) you have the wrong hardware drivers.
    Actually, on my 2 GHz CPU with 1 GB RAM and my GeForce 7600 adapter, I run KR, a web browser, ICQ and an email client at the same time with no problems. Why should I lie?

    There are many things to criticize with KR, but it surely isn't the performance.
     
  18. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I run KR faster than 2D on a 1.6 AMD (Single Core), 1.5GB RAM and 256MB AGP Video Graphics card(my mother board wouldn't support PCI-e).
     
  19. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    Actually, I found if you spend 2 hours configuring your interface and your macros properly and spend one or two gaming sessions to get used to it, the learning curve isn't that bad (at least I didn't have much problems). In fact, once you get used to the new interface, many things can be done much easier and more efficiently (and I already tried a mage, a melee fighter and a crafter).

    I totally agree that the graphics and animations are not state of the art (just look at Titan Quest or Diablo 3!!!), but it still is 100 times better than the cheap-looking choppy 2D client.
     
  20. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    what a disaster.
     
  21. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    Very, very nice system.
    No clue why it can't play KR... because I, and many others, can play it flawlessly on much worse systems. My best guesses would be slow hard drive or outdated drivers.
     
  22. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here you are wrong. And that is the rub. It seems totally random what systems it will run on after any given patch. When it first came out, I could run KR perfectly on my system. It was smooth (even too smooth! I would miss my door and such while sliding around). I used it to do a variety of things, tho never PvP as the issues with single-click flagging and not being able to tell what color a person was (red, blue, grey, they were all the same) made it an issue for me. Oh, and the fact that as soon as multiple spells went off it would freeze up until I was dead.

    Anyway, one day there was a patch. I dont remember when, but it was a good while ago. After that day, when I attempted to play in KR what I got was 100% stuck. I might get lucky to take 1-2 steps per TEN MINUTES. Ya. That's not gonna work for me.

    Now, I don't even try because I am suddenly relegated to an on-board graphics card as my other one died/fried. Goodness knows there is no way an on-board would be good with KR, so I dont even attempt it. Maybe when I get a new one I will try again ... then again ... with how long it takes to download and patch ... maybe not.
     
  23. meridus

    meridus Guest

    There does seem to be some consistency in what machines will run KR well.

    A video card is required with 200 MB+ of memory. NVIDIA seems to have less reported issues than ATI. 2GB of RAM should be on your machine. However players are reporting they can get by with 1GB, if the video card is good. The operating system does not seem to be making a difference. I run KR faster than 2D on my basic 32 bit Vista. I can run 2 instances with some lag.

    KR does not run well with an integrated video card. The custom machine NuSair is describing should run several instances of KR without issue. Something else is wrong.

    Macros? Good lord they are a breeze.
     
  24. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    45
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Define 2D and/or 3D.......

    if you clowns really knew the difference, you would realize, 2Dweeb is actually 3D art.....but no....you remain ignorant, that or just plain gullible.

    Oh, and while were at it, KR looks more marketable than the current tootsie-toy artwork the majority of the playerbase wants. (guess why they don't advertise) The playerbase is at fault.

    Don't blame EA, they made an attempt, and got bashed all to hell for even trying......2Dweeb is all you know, want, and can handle.

    :danceb:
     
  25. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    How marketable is it when it is rejected by the current player-base, and was released early and un-finnished?

    They made a very poor attempt. They should have esearched what the players wanted.
     
  26. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,809
    Likes Received:
    2,326
    Paint it up all ya want.
    First impressions are always important, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
    Lots of us logged in when it was released, took two slow laggy steps, looked around, logged out, uninstalled to free up disc space.
    And never looked back...
    And this system certainly should handle it.
    Drop it, Drop SA, fix the bugs and the gameplay, fix the game, fix that dang server code you are always using as an excuse for never being able to do anything, and then and only then, go 3d. With a UI similar to what UO is all about, not a wow clone.

    Don't blow smoke talking about how many peeps are playing KR, I've only seen 2 ingame taht admit to it :p
     
  27. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would argue that KR is was "we" wanted. The problem is that they weren't able to finish it. It seems to me that building a new client from scratch is far less time consuming than trying to retrofit the 11 year old legacy client. Had they done the latter, there would be just as much complaining.

    They built the KR client in much the same way that the legacy client was built, but now they have much better documentation on how and what they can change. The KR client is essentially the legacy client on steroids. If they can get the manpower to finish it, I feel it will be widely adopted by the player base, not to mention actually marketable.
     
  28. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's getting there... :D
    Legacy Skin
     
  29. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    Even if KR was completely finished players would hate it. They have had to rework so many aspects of the client so far it isn't funny. Two good examples are the female avatar (of which they should have done the male at the same time) and the crafting interface. That crafting menu took you back to 1999 not into 2007. It was such a huge step backwards that they finally had to redo the whole thing and add in enhancements which should have been there to begin with.

    Kingdom Reborn is not just full of bugs, it is also full of design flaws and limitations which was acknowledged at the Town Hall meeting. KR was a rushed job just like Third Dawn and it is going to suffer the same fate because there is no dedicated team to work on KR like there should be. Building a brand new client for UO is going to take time, money and manpower. KR had none of these things.
     
  30. ok ...this is just my personal 'opinion'
    so if you feel like flaming me then go for it.
    all it will do is make me laugh at you.

    KR is crap, garbage, worthless, ugly, lame, weak, pitiful, etc etc.
    its not about 'eye-candy' hello?
    ppl that play uo play for the experience and the community.
    i personally like the 2d graphics (flame on)
    KR doesnt even come close to 2d with about 60% of its graphics.
    its laggy and slow even with a top sys
    soooooo many bugs!!
    this ends it for me right there.
    but there is an almost endless list of negatives for me with KR compared to 2d

    ...so my point is ...why does anyone CARE what they do with KR?
    its merely a glorified 3d client which failed then and fails more horribly now!
    if ppl like it and wanna play it then thats their choice, but ultimately, imo, there IS NO FUTURE for the KR client.
    its a joke; quite frankly its nothing more to me than just another 'slap in the face' by osi, ea, eamythic, or whatever you are calling yourselves these days.
    it makes me down right angry that so much effort was spent on an inferior client, instead of just focusing and fixing the 2d client which most of the player base likes better anyway?!?!?!?!
    hello?!?
    :coco:
     
  31. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    What I found was Setting the Display for anything above 800x600 in KR increased the lag (the higher the setting the greater the lag).

    I have a GForce 6200 256MB DDR2.

    I could easily run Everquest at the 1680x1050 resoultion with never a hint of Lag.

    Anything about 1024x768 on the same set up in KR is a Killer Lag as in not playable. 1024x768 is barely playable. 800x600 is quite playable BUT I can be killed and never even know/see what/who killed me, just one second running next second grey screen. That is 800x600.

    The computer is a 3.05GHZ with 2GB of ram and UO.KR is the only thing running.
     
  32. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hum, well Did YOU know YOUR screen is a 2 Dimensional Display Device? Did that occur to you?

    The Term 3D is used in this context to denote DEPTH. UO Graphics has NO Depth perception. Ergo, in this context it HAS NO 3D.

    Why do you choose to demean players when it is totally obvious that a 2D display unit could NEVER display a 3D drawing? YOU can not walk around or turn the monitor around and view the object from all 3 dimensions.

    Buy a clue and get with every one else. the Term 3D is in reference to the software rendering of a drawing to project the ILLUSION of 3 Dimensions on a 2D surface and UO.KR can NOT do that.
     
  33. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    Two strangers met at a bus stop and started to chat about the weather, the bus schedule and all the other things two people chat about when they have nothing in common. Then one makes some passing comment about gaming.

    Player One: Oh? Computer or Tabletop? I'm a computer gamer.
    Player Two: I'm a computer gamer - massively multiplayer to be specific.
    Player One: Really? Me too! Warcraft or UO?
    Player Two: I'm a UO veteran.
    Player One: Wow! Er ... I mean woohoo! Me too! I'm on Legends!
    Player Two: I'm on Legends too! Of course, I'm a Trammie.
    Player One: You are? So am I!
    Player Two: We have so much in common! We'll have to party up some time.
    Player One: I love KR.
    Player Two: DIE HEATHEN SCUM!
     
  34. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    This is about right. FIrst thing I did was complain that my macros were gone. Next thing I did was just walk around with a sword in my hand and kill low level stuff. Then I got on my crafter and made macros and tried that out for months.

    All told was probably 10-30 hours of learning curve though, hard to know since it was so long ago, but it sucked and I hated it and I was cursing them for mucking it all up. I still don't take advantage of all the KR features but I have the macros system down and I know how to loot so I think I am doing OK. Not all my chars have macros set up though and so I don't play them. So I guess it is still ongoing. I need to find the macro file and try to do it that way. That would probably save me time. Devs should make a basic macro converter downloadable application for subs.

    I only comment because I logged into 2D while on my old computer and I just want to say: "Guys, come on. That thing is hilarious." Since it is what 2Ders play it is hard for them to see, but I implore 2Ders to look at the clients objectively. Not the details that KR is missing (threads and travesty remains) or the male paperdoll, just the overall appearance of the clients.

    Lost subs is not from AOS or UOR or cheaters or whatver else people blame it on. Blame it on the game's appearance.

    OP: yes I would like an honest statement as well but I think they are feeling like "Yeah it was a failure. We can't tell you that, because companies don't admit failures, but it was and so we can't really work on it anymore and this is all you are getting."

    I mean why would it take 12 months to fix the male paperdoll? THere countless details that seem relatively obvious but they are not being addressed despite the bug reports.
     
  35. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    I installed KR on my new machine, AMD tripple core 2.3ghz, 2 gig ram, ATI 8750 (512), and the results;

    Ran fairly smooth overall.
    Lagged like sin when I died.
    Seems 'lagged' in many areas. Macros seem to have a lag on them, and multi key macros seem -really- finicky. (IE CTRL-F1, greater heal, unless I specially pay attention to pressing the keys, F1's macro goes off 90% of the time)
    Mouse Wheel is still pissing me off. I use it for targeting, and it's non-negotiable.
    Macro setup is bulky.
    Several crash issues that have been around since day 1, time out, relog comes to mind.
    Chars data files were corrupted within 20 mins by a crash with the macro gump open.

    All in all, looks well enough, but isn't playably by my standards, and is so far a sad example of a years worth of 'updates'.
     
  36. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    'eh, unless you include yourself in a very small 'we' that isn't the case, or Mythic wouldn't have stated how surprised they were that the uptake on KR was considerably less than what they had expected. Were it truly what the players wanted, more would give it a chance, more would be using it.

    Personally, KR is not what "I" would have wanted. Not that it matters. I also have a good idea how they could/could have created the client everyone would want.... Completely new client/code that looks/feels/runs EXACTLY like the existing 2d client, modularized so that people can swap out say.. different graphics (2d or 3d), macro systems, targeting systems 'etc. They'd never do that though, makes too much sense that it might placate the entire userbase.

    KR is simply 'typical EA' method for doing things, rushed half done, poorly thought out product that some people like for whatever reason, and the majority wishes they hadn't spent their time on without having learned their lessons from 'last time'.

    It's a matter of choice really, for better or worse. Anyone who slings insults at someone who prefers one or the other simply shows their immaturity. Beyond that "it's just a shame" and that can truly be said about a lot of UO in recent years.

    ~Rai
     
  37. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    I want to add a little something here...

    KR isn't finished. Sucks that it isn't finished, and it sucks WHY it isn't finished (which anyone willing to look past their possible anti-KR bias and what actually happened around the time KR updates slowed down can figure out without me telling you any more).

    What I REALLY want to do is give MAJOR props not as much to myself, but to ALL of the players who have spent time to improve the KR client OUTSIDE of developer involvement.

    If you haven't looked through the notes of the BF_Default skin, go to UO skins (link in my sig) and do that. That skin is nothing more than bug fixes that PLAYERS have been able to fix. (Yes, I know, the devs should be doing it, but at least it's getting done).

    Beyond that, look at some of the other UI mods (including BB_Enhanced, SonomaUI, Pinco's mods, and SO many others) with what modders have been able to add to KR's UI and the options are EXPANDING. Commas in almost all numbers, Tithing points nicely visible, sextant coordinates under the minimap, you can now add in the classic minimap, soon as Zym posted, the entire UI will have a more classic UO look if you desire, Gildar just this week added a small mod to the TRAC version of BB_Enhanced to put in an option for object handle filtering "on the fly", and there are more features coming that a few people are working on that will raise the quality of the KR UI even further.

    Right now, my biggest advice to people trying out KR is to get used to it, then learn how to add in the player created mods because they raise the quality of the client to a new level entirely.

    I'm not trying to toot my own horn, the mods I have done have been basically a combination of everyone's work with some tweaks of my own that was requested to be uploaded, thus I started maintaining it. I can't claim credit for the hard work... that's all in the credit file.

    KR isn't done, KR isn't perfect, KR has compatability issues (sometimes we can work them out if the person having a problem is willing to accept the help, sometimes it IS a hardware issue).

    But KR has a LOT of potential and a LOT of pwoer behind it as a client for UO. What it COULD do for UO is phenominal. What it WILL do for UO is yet to be determined.

    I can only hope that when the Devs all get back that they can start finding some of the "bandwidth" (as they call it) to begin tackling that "scary" bug list.

    I can like KR and still admit that it has problems. I will NEVER say that KR is a perfect client. I will say that it works better for ME and that you may be surprised if you give it a chance.

    I WANT the Dev Team to keep working on KR because I want to keep playing UO. And as good as the 2d client was for its time... it just hasn't kept up well on technical levels. I can understand the artwork being endearing, but it's not going to sell any boxes off the store shelves to NEW buyers... only to us die hard UO players. KR has that chance.

    Yeah it sucks that we players have had to do more to "patch" KR than the Devs have done in 6 months... but what a job everyone that has been modding has done.

    Thanks to EVERYONE... Pinco, Gildar, B-LAU, Ash, Kurgan, Sabbath, Zym Dragon, Lucitus, Sarphus, Fink, and anyone else I missed.
     
  38. Zym Dragon

    Zym Dragon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    What I meant by that is that "we" wanted a new client that improved the graphics, UI, and more importantly it improved the ability for the Devs to update it with new content. The idea behind making KR was precisely on the right track imho. Development just got derailed.

    I absolutely agree with you that KR is a half finished product that should never have been released in the state it was in. They should have released it in the fall after all of those weeks of updates, at the earliest. As we all know, the time given to KR was cut abruptly short in the Fall with the move to VA.

    The potential is there for KR to be a truly amazing client. I just wish they hadn't shot themselves in the foot (ok.. face) by releasing such a buggy piece of software, which turned most people off to it. I don't know why anyone at EA/Mythic would be surprised with the low adoption rate of KR given how they released it to everyone.

    The modding we are able to do with the UI will let us get extremely close to the look and feel of the old client. Aside from allowing the spell icons to be placed anywhere on the screen (without a hotbar slot), I don't think there is any part of the legacy UI that can't be replicated (or at least be close enough) in KR. We are learning more every day and as more modders join our ranks, I believe you all will see the power of this client manifest. I hope that will lead many of you to give KR another try. Granted, the Devs need to fix the performance problems on the newer machines having problems, but at least putting the UI Mods into our hands, frees up more Dev time to fix the important things. So those of you who would give KR a try if the UI was "better", please hop over to the KR forum and tell us what you want to see. More than likely, we will be able to make it happen.
     
  39. Killian

    Killian Guest

    Well, I personally play both 2d and KR.. as I find some things better in one client then the other and vice versa...

    KR, had like some people have mentioned, has the potentional to be great for UO... and people need to see it and try it... Mods do help out a lot.. mines modded with Dermott's mod.. and it's helped out so much.

    What they need to do is make it less pixled at higher zooms... it's hard to tell Items from the ground... since they are almost the same color... and make the items smaller the same applies with the paper dolls.... WAY to big..

    I love KR, and I want it to be looked at and viewed as the furture of UO, Just they need to get cracking on the bugs, and work on the art, get somebody who is good at just art, use larger files in the art or at least higher resolutions for the images so the art doesn't become just a blurry mess on the screen when you zoom in a little..

    I personally dont even care about more content... I actually wish they would can the upcoming expansion, and focus on the issues UO has... and KR is the biggest... get that working and runing nicely, get people on board using it, then after that, then maybe work on adding more content...

    to me, they are working backwards.. why add more parts to a broken item.. all that does is complicates things more by having more junk to go through...

    If I brought my car somewhere to be repaired.. and they ignored the problem and told me to just add a sweet new transmission to it.. I'd wonder wtf they just smoked... and I wouldn't think to much about their abilities in fixing my car... Same thing with KR... Fix it, it's great, amazing if you look at it with a sense of what it brings to UO's future, and not what It does now.. (though as to why they released it in the state it's in.. *sigh* who know's)

    I hope that it's a big fat WE'RE WORKING ON KR'S ISSUES to make it better for the majority of UO's player base. :) :thumbsup:
     
  40. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    While I can applaude the efforts of the player base, this 'props' also makes me sick at the same time.
    This really isn't some open source project where everyone contributes towards creating a solid, usefull product.
    This is EA Games, a corporation who exists to make money off of consumers by offering products and services that appeal to us.
    The thing is, they -know- UO is many people's crack. Quality, quantity, etc don't matter when something is better than nothing.

    Far as I am concerned this is a failure on good business practices. A shoddy product was released (admitedly, free), and has been left to fester for a year.
    This is just one of many festering sores that scar Ultima Online, and while I can applaude players for keeping their chins up and trying, it still depresses me that a PAID service results in this.
     
  41. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    a) nope, pretty solid cable 4081mbps download and 490mbps upload.
    b) not very likely, unless they've release something in the past 3 hours

    Not saying you are lying, just saying that it lags out my system, and it shouldn't do that. And that I am 99% sure, it's their program, not my machine.
     
  42. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    Tell me about it, I tore it apart and spent the better part of 6 hours rebuilding it, going back over it, testing the raid0 for speed, the backup terrabype hd, tested the MB....and it all checked out, top notch.
     
  43. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    For my main 'drive' I run 2 WD 150GB Raptors in a Raid0 and a Seagate baracuda 1TB for storage.

    And all my drivers are current. I've even tested older drivers to see if it was an issue with newer drivers.
     
  44. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    lets be honest...Kingdom Reborn is total crap.

    Even Third Dawn was better...and even that died out.
     
  45. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no reason to run a 64 bit OS unless you need access to huge amounts of RAM. That being said you wouldn't be able to use 8 gig on 32 bit Windows unless you enabled PAE, which would also slow memory access down some because of the overhead of the way it manages the paging tables and the larger page size. Some 32 bit applications actually run quite a bit slower on 64 bit Windows than on the 32 bit flavors. I would love to see how KR runs on your (very nice btw) system with XP or Vista 32 bit.

    Have you submitted a bug report? It would be nice if they could optimize it for 64 bit OS flavors as a forward looking endeavor.
     
  46. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I'm still waiting for KR to be playable. I can and do use it for some things, but it dogs my laptop pretty badly. It runs great on my desktop, but my wife usually uses that to mess around on the internet and play those games that come with windows, so I don't have it really set up to play.

    My favorite aspect of KR is the customizeable UI. I like the ability to write custom gumps, but I wish there had been more documentation on gump writing. It's hard to tell if your gump is properly releasing resources or if it's the client itself that's not properly releasing resources lol

    I will continue to use KR for some things until it is a viable client for all things. At that point, I will stop using 2d until I'm confident there aren't any caveats with 2d. Once I think I'm fully on KR, I will uninstall 2d. I don't expect that to happen in the next year or 2.
     
  47. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    0
    The future of KR is it's gonna be nerfed and slowed down, and toned down to match 2D because some speedhackers realized their software don't cut it no more against a superior client, a superior connection and a superior computer and said speedhackers have also convinced innocent ignorant players that KR is Pure Evil... :next:

    GO EA. :bowdown:

    Now where did I put that speedhacking software's URL link...!?
    And does anyone care to send me that dupe, the one that works with 2D? Oh right. THEY ALL ONLY WORK ON 2D. :next:
     
  48. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    Another thought... have you tried running it with only letting it use a single core?

    I've heard mention that dropping it to a single core tends to improve stability for some dual-core systems...
    Also, as Erekose said - have you tried using a 32 bit OS?

    I wouldn't be too shocked if it were 64-bit and multi-core compatibility issues.
     
  49. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0

    On a related note, I often set processor affinity to one of my 2 cores with KR, manually through Task Manager. It seems to slightly improve performance, but then I don't get too many performance issues to begin with.
     
  50. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    Well, I sat down last night, I set up all my spell macros, got my key assignments set up, got things laid out just the way I wanted them, and set about playing for a bit on KR.

    And I sort of wish I hadn't, because I remember now why I liked the client in the first place. It's got a TON of potential.

    The problem is that it's more unstable than the 2D client. I crashed at least four times down with Melissa, which is not a good area to crash in, to say the least. I play WoW, so I'm fine with modal chat, and like that my keys can do all kinds of stuff for me. But now I have a whole new list of issues:

    - The graphics are, indeed, horrendous, particularly for corpses. While 2D corpses at least have the decency to lie flat, the KR ones seem to bend at strange angles (at least on demons).
    - The free-form backpack mode is useless, because it randomly chooses where to drop whatever you're dropping, instead of dropping it at cursor points (not to mention the icons are WAY too small for the size of the backpack they give you).
    - The list mode causes a TON of freeze-lag if you hit a corpse with a lot of stuff in it, which is bad, bad, bad.
    - Did I mention that I crashed from someone else recalling in my presence? What?
    - I crashed for what amounted to no apparent reason, which was odd.
    - KR and 2D have the same house cache bug... see, apparently Melissa's room in Ilshenar is in the same geographic comparable area as my house in Compassion Grove, so when I get down there, a replica of my house is half waiting for me, so I get to hide and restart UO (odd that they share this same bug since they aren't the same client).
    - Figuring out where I'm standing in comparison to the twisted corpses is nigh on impossible, while in 2D I know I have to stand in the middle of multi-tile corpses. I spent literally a couple of minutes trying to figure out how to loot a balron while it kept telling me "I can't reach that." I *finally* found the place to stand, thank god.
    - Movement is strange in the KR client, and I don't like that it seems to want to move me around everything I come to. Sometimes it's okay to just stop me.
    - Why can't I reassign the keys on the primary hotbar?
    - Why is the CANCEL button where OKAY should be given the layout of the settings screen?
    - What's with the font used for the client? And why doesn't all-names cycle nicely on mouse-over like the 2D client? Using KR to target a name is... "fun."
    - Why does my elf have a mage's hat in KR, but a circlet in 2D? Did they forget to do some stuff with the graphics? Shame.
    - Pet interface for seeing your pets is nice. However, why does it default to closed, and why does it keep moving?
    - Why doesn't the KR client remember what bags were open and where they were?
    - And what's with the interface? I mean, WoW's interface has a fantasy flair to it, but remains functional. This interface is uuuuuuuuuuuugly, and doesn't speak to fantasy.

    But what ticks me off about this is that I really would LIKE to play the KR client regularly. I like the bits and pieces of it that do function. But I always liked them. It's the stuff that is left that STILL doesn't work that bothers me, and we're a year out from its "release."

    So I'll keep playing 2D for now, because it's just easier to stay in 2D with the occasional crash than to have to worry about crashing in KR just for crash sake.

    2D isn't really choppy though.

    And... uh... no, the artwork is not better. If you use the standard KR client graphics, they're way too thick (and why? what's wrong with thin? everything seems to have become bloated), and the icons for everything are mega-blurry lacking any solid detail. I'm not sure why, but wow, it's not pretty to look at. I had to go back to the 2D graphics just to know what was in my backpack (but, of course, those icons were too small too).

    Oh, and why can't I resize my backpack in grid mode? Good lord.