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The Future of MMORPG's and Ultima

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ludes, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Saw this article this morning:

    New challengers lining up take down Warcraft | Games Blog - Yahoo! Games

    I couldn't help but notice there is no mention of EA at all..

    Except for a brief mention of Star Wars The Old Republic. They briefly glossed over the fact that most reviews I've seen, both independent and on their own forum are calling the game a dismal failure.

    One can only hope the investment they lost on that game will not effect UO.

    Also.. what do ya'll think of the upcoming releases they mention in the article?

    None of which even remotely resemble the open sandbox style of Ultima Online.
    I can only wonder.. with the 15 year run of UO, (making it "successful" in my opinion) Why nobody else uses the Ultima playstyle as a template for new games?
     
  2. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    They did mention Warhammer getting revamped.
     
  3. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Ahh yes they did..my mistake.
     
  4. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Actually that's a completely different game, and not an MMORPG. It's limited to three teams, a small number of players, and is more of an arena-style game.

    https://wrathofheroes.warhammeronline.com/

    The Warhammer MMORPG itself, well ironically UO seems to be getting a lot more attention than it.
     
  5. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    To be honest... UO is too hard for the average player base these days. You actually have to "work" for anything in an open sandbox game. The world of warcraft genre has taken over. Beat X boss to receive Y loot. Static item drops and minimal "work" to complete anything in the game. (By minimal work I mean you don't need to chop X tree for 20 days to max a skill.)

    I really wish they would create a new game, like Ultima, but with the graphics of Rift... would be amazing. I'd be hooked again like I was when I was 13!!! Unfortunately, that style of play is not "trendy"
     
  6. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Great find Ludes and I am going to borrow this link to put in the GW2 forums. Especially since GW2 was mentioned off the top :) Thank you!

    The Warhammer Online: The Wrath of hereos was high lighted this past year at Pax and Gamescon. FTP and will have an item shop. More of an Arena style fighting not like the actual Warhamner Online.

    Neverwinter I have hears bits and pieces of. I thought it was all Bioware but after reading that it is Cryptic Studios.
     
  7. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    From what it sounds like, BioWare and Atari/Wizards of the Coast parted ways on the D&D franchise, and BioWare made Dragon Age as their dungeon series.

    Neverwinter wasn't going to be a full MMORPG originally.
     
  8. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Is Neverwinter a spin off from the Neverwinter nights?
     
  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I've actually gotten to a place where I kinda hate MMO's. Its just a never ending time suck. Sure, they can be fun, and I still play UO in like 2 months bursts every 6-8 months or so, but it just never stops.

    I've found myself drifting back to the consoles for an experience I can enjoy, finish, then get back to my life feeling satisfied.
     
  10. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I would assume it's set in the Neverwinter Nights setting. It was going to be an online cooperative game and they switched it up last year:

    Neverwinter (video game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Actually quite a bit of drama involved. It's not going to be a traditional MMO like UO though, but it's not going to be dumbed down and limited like Warhammer Wrath of Heroes. Somewhere in between.

    Looking at all of the drama involved, it's no wonder BioWare moved away from the D&D series. Plus with Dragon Age they don't have to pay licensing feeds to Atari/Wizards of the Coast.
     
  11. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    UO will never die. there will forever be at least one shard..
     
  12. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Thank you Woodsman. :)

    I still see a pattern though with many games going to the f2p model.

    WoW went f2p up to lvl 20 so even for the big dog on the block atm, has it days .

    The warhammer game is for the quick fights and great for players with limited time.
     
  13. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, SW:TOR is far from a dismal failure. In fact, if the server load is any sign, the game has a bright future ahead of it. Now, mind you, it's no WoW-killer (and only Blizzard will manage that unless some other development company has the cash and wherewithall to take the developer-route to release that most games can't afford because they're backed by a publisher who wants to see a return on investment), but it's not going to tank any time soon. Sure, it may lose some subscribers at the end of the 30 day period that comes with purchase, but I don't think you're going to see even a 25% attrition rate.

    Yeah, SW:TOR has bugs to work out, but it is, by far, the smoothest MMO release for an EA game, and actually, based on my exerperiences, among the smoothest of any MMO release period.

    And, unlike the feedback and communication "enjoyed" by UO, SW:TOR has WoW-quality customer assistance with bug reports acknowledge (if only by an automated reply, but at least it's assurance that the bug has been seen and put into a tracking database).

    Reviews... well, I'll dig those up later. But EA's not going to take a bath on SW:TOR, because unlike every other EA MMO, SW:TOR was actually done right, and presently shows no sign of a failure to be addressing bugs, communicating with the customer base about coming plans, or any of the things EA typically gets wrong.

    But... SW:TOR is definitely no SWG or UO, and thus a void is present in MMOspace for a real UO successor that will definitely NOT be Richard Garriot's Ultimate Grasp for Reality.
     
  14. Haddy G

    Haddy G Journeyman
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    If this lag keeps up there may not be much of a future for UO at least for me anyways. BTW all the reviews I've seen on this Star Wars game is it's the best thing since slice bread, granted I thought it was boring as H*** during the beta weekend.
     
  15. IamOldMan

    IamOldMan Guest

    The success of UO cannot be denied, but its future must be in doubt, not because of players abandoning it, but because of how the devs and origin have abandoned them. Each new game has diminished the ability of all games to maintain a population, and it has been these populations and social in game networks that have been a huge part of their success. Yet if it aint broke dont fix it is just not an option for the IT industry, they must have change, whether its in game change or a totally new game it will diminish the effectiveness of all these games to retain their original appeal. UO is about to enter 15 years, but if you now cant even buy an expansion that is more than relevant to game play (high seas, now not available from origin game codes site) then Origin seems to be definitely trying a new way to make the newer game releases succeed, liked or not, if they phase out the old giants like uo, and maybe dont make any mention of just how successfull they were, are, and could remain, then the newer games do have a chance of success. Thats how it works isnt it? get rid of a 20 year old TV that works, to replace it with a bigger one that will only work for 2 years then need to be thrown out,and replaced thats called an improvement in technology. Life...gotta love the treadmill we are on, or even the one I gotta buy next week to replace that one, but it will be a better one im sure.
     
  16. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
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    The majority of negative reviews The Old Republic has received have been based on expectation.
    To dramatically oversimplify it; I expected X, I got Y, therefore it sucks.
    These aren't reliable reviews, really :p
     
  17. Picus at the office

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    Considering that UO has managed to avoid the F2P concept and moron's like myself, and everyone else here, pays for at least one account every month I don't think that the game is going anywhere soon.

    The last few months have been a very postive time for us, the players, and the dev team with some much needed content being added, bug squashing and added value. Is it perfect, no, but it is a step in the right direction.

    To quote Freelsy: To be honest... UO is too hard for the average player base these days. You actually have to "work" for anything in an open sandbox game. The world of warcraft genre has taken over. Beat X boss to receive Y loot. Static item drops and minimal "work" to complete anything in the game. (By minimal work I mean you don't need to chop X tree for 20 days to max a skill.)


    This is what will keep UO going and just might add the odd player here and there. I imagine that the old school player base enjoys the grind that is this game, some might do it by hand and others "speed" up the process but we all see the concept, value it and like it.
     
  18. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Let me add something new to this conversation. I always enjoy a good conversation.

    Voyage Century Online has some similarities that UO has. Working skills, resource gathering, crafting, weapon skills, and such. It is definelty not UO but, to me and my opinion only, a sandbox game anway. I have always enjoyed the game. Its f2p and that is one game that has been in my stable for years.

    A big difference between the games is in VCO allow an automated being away feature to work skills. You level up basically while doing other stuff on the net, watching tv, sleeping or w/e.

    All games comes and goes. Most games that began over a decade ago have dwindling populations. Then you have your hardcore loyal players who will play till the game plus is pulled. UO fits both comments. WoW has also felt a little sting in loss of population.

    When you have big anticipated games that comes out each year it takes away from current gaming communities. Now some gamers may go try a new game that is released and not like it and come back to the game they were playing. Then you have gamers who like the new game and leave the old game. Constant cycle that never ends. All games eventually have returning players that come and go.

    For UO to grow it has to grow with fresh players. Is the game complicated more then some of the new games that are out? Yes and no. I would not want UO to be dumbed down to much but not to make it extremely hard either. There has to be a medium. Is time a factor that hurts UO? Yes. Some players have time to play and enjoy the game at their pace. Then you have players who want to be in the battle and heart of the game instantly. Time is an issue in the fast paced world we all live in now days.

    Graphics been there before over and over with debates. UO needs updated imo. I will leave it at that.

    Two clients is another issue. UO needs one client only but with developers focusing on two clients it does take away from much needed advancement of the game. Again I will leave it at that.

    Has there been improvements with in UO? Yes. The dungeon revamps and added content its a good time to be playing UO. The developers have done much in the past few months and seem to keep pushing out new content.

    UO has to stay close with its roots but also has to branch out to get new players. thats the issue UO faces today. To stay Ultima Online and feel like the Ultima Online we all came to love but to be attractive in todays market. If anybody knows the right plastic surgeon that can make UO still look like the UO we know and have the improvements that attratc the new players please send them here. :)
     
  19. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    I think Ultima is still around because there hasn't really every been another game quite like it to compete with it on the same level. As some pointed out, everything has gone the WoW model (or would you call it the Everquest model? I'd argue that is what changed the direction of MMOs).

    Even the new Star Wars game seems to be WoW with a Star Wars skin or so they say. Though on a side note, I don't think SW and WoW really directly compete against each other anyway. Though they are both MMOs, they are totally different genres, one being fantasy and the other epic sci-fi. I am not a Star Wars fan generally (or of most sci-fi on the whole, some sub-genres aside), so I've no interest in it myself. I imagine others feel the same way, while yet more others really do like that instead of fantasy and will flock to it for those reasons. And that is without considering the huge SW fandom anyway.

    But it does feel like a slow drip of players leaving UO sometimes. But there seems to be a surge in adding additional content and I am hoping this eventually leads to some kind of focused policy on addressing the issue of bringing in new players.
     
  20. RL'S pker

    RL'S pker Sage
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    With UO devs putting out pubs like Pub 74 UO doesn't have much more of a future in the fel community.

    Guild Wars 2 is looking good IMO.
     
  21. RL'S pker

    RL'S pker Sage
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    For the UO community to grow, the game needs a COMPLETE make over.

    Take the time, and make an Ultima Online 2. New artwork...stuff that doesn't look cheesier than Runescape.

    Start from scratch and get it right. All the UO loyals would go to it, and if it was a modern day game graphic wise, with good advertising to hype it up UO could shoot back near the top.

    As is, UO is dead.
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, same here. If I had a ton of free time I'd be able to enjoy MMORPGs a lot more. But since I don't I enjoy single player games such as the Elder Scrolls series. Almost all the fun, better graphics (sometimes) and if I can't get on the game for a month or so I don't get left behind.
     
  23. HD2300

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    After all the hype with SWTOR is over, something tells me that EA will spend a lot of money marketing UO too this year.
     
  24. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Are you talking about a completely separate game?

    Because "UO loyals" are not going to throw away up to 14 years of work, housing, items, and characters - if they were willing to give up that much work, they're liable to have already walked away for a different game. If EA did that to them, they would definitely walk away from EA/UO.

    We're doing good to get the graphic resolution upgraded. The next new MMORPG from EA will probably be them publishing Kingdom of Amalur.

    The fact that we are still sharing one community guy with Camelot and Warhammer says all you need to know :(
     
  25. RL'S pker

    RL'S pker Sage
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    People should not get attached to virtual items. That's just silly, and rather pathetic.


    Just because a Ultima Online 2 could possibly be made, it doesn't mean they would just drop the original. Yes, if a UO2 was released those who enjoy UO would go to it.

    You said they are doing good to get the graphics upgraded...? Really? It's been what 14years, and we've reached the enhanced client. That's laughable.

    Personally I enjoy the 2d client, but we have to face the facts. Our current graphics in the game have no appeal to most MMO players. People look for that shock and awe factor. While we have some unique content, people do judge a book by it's cover. Ours is rather dusty, and falling apart.

    We have no chance at recruiting new players in our current state.

    I'm just being honest. I Wish it wasn't so, and that we had packed active shard with new players every day, but we don't.
     
  26. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Sure we do, all Mesanna & company need to do is open up an official t2a shard. Of course they would tell me im clueless & that would never work. Well it's that exact talk right there that is the reason UO won't pull back those players to build bigger shards to attract new people.

    The future of Ultima is literally a handful of new players all the same old players minus a few. Hopefully EA keeps these shards up when they are down to 10 active players per shard.
     
  27. RL'S pker

    RL'S pker Sage
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    I think 80% of the shards are already at that population!
     
  28. Lord Stoli

    Lord Stoli Guest

    Wow you could not have said it better. UO is very unique. All those others.... I tried 6 others, do not hold a candle. I wish EA or whoever would build on that rep alone.
     
  29. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I laughed so hard I had a coughing fit. Well played sir.

    What a good joke
     
  30. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Well, you do have to realize that he still believes the Net Dragon UO will be anything but vaporware, and, barring that, that it will actually be released here in the U.S.
     
  31. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    And yet, that's exactly the relationship that MMO developers are counting on. That you will become attached to your virtual items to such a degree that you will continue to pay for a game every month like clockwork.

    Hell, the F2P model exacerbates this to an even larger degree. They're hoping that you will become so attached to the virtual items in their game, and more particularly, your avatar, and will therefore spend your money on things you don't even need.

    So don't act surprised when people who have invested time and money over nearly fifteen years don't want to see all of that investment go away. I mean, look at the reaction that Sony got from SWG closing down, and that was a game that most new would come to an end -- particularly after the NGE. That it lived until the next great SW MMO came along is amazing, truthfully.

    But a simple truth of the MMO world is this: If people aren't getting attached to their virtual items, you're doing it wrong.


    All of that said, they could upgrade all of UO so that the core experience was properly modified but that characters and belongings could "go with" into the new environment. They would have a few hurdles, but nothing insurmountable, save the largest one: financial backing. Which it is unlikely to get.


    [Edit: Fixed your from you're... sheesh.]
     
  32. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    A lot of gaming companies have been flirting with ideas for MMO's lately, even if they aren't using exact language to say it. A Fallout MMO has been rumored lately as well as one from Gearbox and Bungie. They want subscription money. Even some FPS games like Team Fortress 2 and Call of Duty are using MMO-type business models to try to make more money.
     
  33. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    RaDian FlGith said it better than I could have.

    If people stop getting attached to virtual items, whether they be certain weapons, armor, houses, characters, then the likelihood of them leaving to play another game increases drastically.

    If they've had unpleasant experiences with the company making that game, then the chances of them trying another MMO from that company are not good.

    If UO didn't have so many people attached to its virtual items, their houses, etc., they would have bailed a long time ago, and left UO and EA behind, and UO probably would not still be around.

    I've always believed that the quickest way to passively shut UO down would be for EA to really screw with housing. People would leave in droves if they lost their houses.
     
  34. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    So... In a week from Tuesday?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. Its just that the likelihood that the decay switch being turned back on not turning into a disaster is frighteningly low. People are still having issues with the new billing system randomly turning off their account or deciding it doesn't like their payment method.
     
  35. pgib

    pgib Guest

    This game has no chances to gain new players if they don't make it look like a modern game is supposed to look. And that would cost as much as making a new game, which is easier because there are no preexisting constraints.

    I think the future of this game is to live in the current state as long as someone else (or EA itself) makes a new modern game with a gameplay sufficiently similar to what we have that even the remaining addicted old timers (that pay a lot for UO, let's not forget that we basically have pay-to-play / free-to-play scheme combination, without the "free" part) decide to move. UO won't be profitable anymore, they will shut down it and the story will end.
     
  36. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    A man can dream.

    Star Wars launched December 20th with a free month of play for those who picked it up.

    That free month runs out in a week or so.

    I'm hoping that Star Wars doesn't crash and burn like Warhammer did after its first few months, and that subscriptions past the initial free month are solid and that BioWare uses some of that cash to help out some of its other games.

    Unfortunately, George Lucas likes his money, so it will be quite a while before BioWare gets some spare cash. Even at a million players a month, at $15 a pop, with estimates of a budget between $125 million to $200 million, it's going to be at least a year before BioWare can do anything significant with its' Star Wars MMO money.