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The Greater Dragon Nerf

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Helmgar, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. Helmgar

    Helmgar Guest

    I could see a tone down for the greater dragons in PvP, but not in PvM. I can't see why anyone would want to use a greater dragon for anything when the Dread mare is close to its power and only takes 3 control slots. And the Cu Sidhe is even more powerful than the greater dragon now, but the greater dragon still takes 5 control slots. The greater dragon shouldn't have been nerfed at all for pvm, its so weak now its not even worth using.
     
  2. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Good nerf. Been a long time coming. They should never of been tamable at all.
     
  3. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Also lets add that neither the CU nor the dread mare are as good of a tank as the greater dragon is. Also, unless I was uninformed of a recent change the dreads do not spawn.
     
  4. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
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    i was actually really wondering how this nerf went over, and was waiting patiently for someone to make a thread.


    Back when i used to play, my BF and i used to solo or two man grizzle in bedlam with G dragons. what we would do is put the dragon on the boss, stand two tiles behind the dragon, and bandage and Gheal to keep the dragon alive. (standing two tiles behind the dragon keeps you in range for bandies, but out of range of his slimy evilness) this was possible solo as long as your casting was fast enough and you had 500+ bandies on you.

    my question is, after the nerf, is this still possible?

    i understand with a damage nerf it would take much longer to bring him down solo, but are the tanking abilities still there for the G dragon?
     
  5. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    thank you uo no more tamer madness I hope :eyes::eyes:
     
  6. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I'm kind of worried about being able to take down ancient wyrms during level 6 t maps. I mean, they already fly off when almost dead and heal up and its a pita to get them down at that point, if the dragons dont do enough damage now for that final killing blow...yikes. This could be a real big pain for t hunting tamers.
     
  7. kaldera4

    kaldera4 Guest

    is there a nerf for speedhackers and dupers in planing too?
     
  8. Gotta love it. The pvpers finally whined long enough and they nerfed the only thing worth anything to tamers. Its amazing that the pvp community makes up maybe 20% of UO and they are always whinnng about something. They complained and complained about the grd dragon in pvp. I agree why nerf them for pvm. Just nerf them in pvp but they prolly couldt do that. Oh well why bother with a pain in the butt grd now that takes 5 slots.
     
  9. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    I play a tamer and agree with the nerf. They was way over powered specially in pvp... If I can fight 7 pvpers with a tamer template and kill over half of them and the other half runs away then that my friends is a crazy over powered beast. And yes they did need to be nerfed and I'm glad that they finally was nerfed.
     
  10. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    I don't get it. Tamers were fine before they introduced dragons, so I don't get that statement about the only thing worthy anything to tamers....
     
  11. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    You hit the nail on the head. They never should have been tamable in the first place.

    Lets get rid of them as tamables and get back to Tamers pre-GD.
     
  12. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    If you're fighting seven and killing half, while the rest high tail, then those 7 aren't pvper's.

    They're noobs.
     
  13. THyRoID99

    THyRoID99 Guest

    Greater Dragons are fantastic at pvm and ridiculously overpowered at pvp. I think the overall dmg tweak wasn't the way to go. The issue of overpowered PVP should have been addressed directly by multiplying the GD's dmg vs players by .6 or something like that. Problem solved.
     
  14. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I have a tamer with a Great Dragon, too. (So don't call me a tamer hater!)

    However, it was really annoying that in most events, the dungeons and rooms were crowded with dozens of Greater Dragons, as they promised the most success. I am glad if that was toned down a bit, as non-tamers usually had a slight disadvantage. I still have to test though.

    Nerfing Greater Dragons in PvP makes sense anyway, I guess most people will agree to that.
     
  15. Jermosh

    Jermosh Guest

    I could out damage with my WW and Mare anyways, the only advantage of a GD was that I did not have to heal as much, or at all. I think this is more of a nerf for Stealth Tamers or tamers without Vet.
     
  16. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Has anyone in this thread actually used a Greater Dragon since Pub 60? lol

    Okay, so stat-wise, my Greater Dragon on my tamer-bard has the same STR and Base Damage. Now to see how "weak" it is. Something had to change, right? They couldn't have just meant capped damage for PvP, right? ;)

    To the Rotting Corpses in Covetous ... doh! Someone is here. Okay, hm. Let's just try the Abyss. Wish I had one of those sweet new Aud-Chars.

    Gremlin -- dies in one hit, 76 damage. Oops. Sweet, 5 points.

    Rotworm, dead in two hits and a firebreath.
    Rotworm, dead in three hits. Rotworm does 1 damage per hit, 12-15 with special blood move. 25 points. These must give 10 each.

    And don't forget to cut them up ;).

    Two more Rotworms dead, Dragon has 819/819 hp. Hm. Where was that RC? 45 pts.

    Partially damaged Gray Goblin Mage. 55 pts. It poisoned my Dragon when it died, leaving it poisoned, oh no! :( I cured it.

    Another mage, a regular Goblin, 73 points now.

    Ah ha! Found the RC spawn! Done counting now, letting dragon into room. Oh sweet, GGS magery because a Goblin attacked me and I used my Swords of Prosperity on it.

    Two RCs, a bunch of spectre, skeletons and stuff. I definitely have to keep it healed. With it arch curing and me using magery, I'm good though.

    First two RCs dead, dragon went blue after killing third RC, told it to kill again, fourth RC now dead. Cake walk time.

    Dragon has 130/600 mana and 713/838 hp. I have only 81 points! That's right, these guys aren't giving me points. Boo!

    Alright, time to blow this popsicle stand and get to something better.

    Wolf Spider, 86 pts. 2-hit kill. Gray Goblin, 94 pts. Eep. Okay, no matter how tough a dragon can be, I don't know if I can make it to Navrey on foot. Let's see if I can make the run. Let me feed my Draggy a Goblin rib first.

    Okay. Made it past the Goblins, now to pass Mr. Sentinel(sp). Hi Neville, sorry, not right now.

    Oh crap 8 wolf spiders and a blood ele. IF I weren't typing this would be hard. All dead, 551/819 hp on drag, 434 mana....huh? lol wtf an iron beetle wants in on the action. Wow, the beetle is actually ten times harder than the blood ele and the spiders. I'm not healing, but the beetle gets dragon down to 552 hp from 819.

    Sentinel spider. I do about 70 damage a hit with dragon to this. 230 pts, waiting on one more to see how many pts it gets. Hm, that's weird. It spawned with two Wolf Spiders and I killed both in two hits, then the Sentinel, and I'm only 240 pts. One more time.

    Ah. Sentinels do not give pts. Wolf give 5 each. 250 now.

    Ok, now a really easy mini-boss, Navrey.

    Dead. Eep, another spawned same spot. When it webs you, that can sometimes be bad. But it doesn't suck you in.

    400 pts. Guess they give about 75 each.

    Well, I will use Dragon on something a little harder like Lady M soon, but I'd like to know, from people who have tested it rather than just read the change, how it is effecting them so far. *Recalls out*
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Yet, several players do have one........

    How sad to see yet again another example of "Haves" and "Have Nots" in this game.............
     
  18. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I plan on testing my two GD's in Bedlam as soon as I finish with my preliminary explorations into the Abyss.

    This could take a few weeks though.
     
  19. ok if this has miss up my t hunter being able to take on an AW with a GD then that is the biggest mistake I have ever seen EA make with the nerf stick. I have never been able to take on all four guardians and have to use the Lure one at a time off to fight with my GD, the AW has always been the means one of the bunch to take out, battles lasting 15-20 minutes with it, and me vetting like crazy. Now if nerf means I cannot take on an AW alone as before then that it, my t hunter has retired.
     
  20. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Where did you take your GD to test this out?
     
  21. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I've not taken mine out yet, Terry took his to Sorcerer's. It had no problems taking out paragon blood elementals.
     
  22. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    While I would agree with you fully, I must say this has always been the state of UO, either you attend an event and get what is offered or you do not.

    So really complaining about something that has been around since more or less day one (granted they did not matter as much in the beginning aside from bragging rights) Seems pointless at the least.
     
  23. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    While I have not tested it I would think it safe to assume it has not limited the Dragons tanking ability at all, this means it will just change that 15-20 min fight to a 20-30 fight (rough estimate or exaggeration)
     
  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    To begin with I hated this nerf and the more I read the more I hated it. Then I decided to do this.

    Take your GD someplace you have already been with him. I chose Swoop because that is where I did most of my training and didn't want any other monsters in the way. Swoop lasts awhile for a GD so it gave me a good idea what was up. My GD has 125+ WR and Tact and 102 Mag, does good Phy damage, and 81 Phy resist. The RNG loved me tonight because 95% of the swoops were 130+ Wr and Tact, 100+ magic resist and 85+ Phy resist. LOL

    On the first Swoop he dumped all of his 610 Mana and threw fire breath about every 10 sec. 2-3 min per Swoop. He did this with every swoop after that too.

    Another player showed with thier GD in training, just above 110 in Wr and Tact and was taking just a little longer then mine. Stayed there for 2 hrs and they were all dropping in 2-3 min. On Swoop we could see no differance. The other tamer didn't even know that they were nerfed until I asked them about 30 min into it if they noticed a change in thier GD. I have 10 chests full of loot from Swoop (to unravil) before this nerf. Today I could tell no differance with my GD.

    The only thing I need to test is PvP. Is there any PvPers that would be willing to stand there and let my GD chomp on them to see how many chomps it takes to kill them. I promiss not to loot or accept any kill or insurance money.
     
  25. yes they still work fine tanking. did a grizzle and a mel earlier and didnt see any dif at all. seems like a good nerf to quiet the pvp'rs while still leaving the greaters for us to enjoy in pvm. thx devs!
    :party:
     
  26. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    I just know that the enemies in Formosa I met after UOSA all became newbies.

    Because before UOSA, they are like god fingers that could target you instantly when you step on their screen

    But after UOSA, I kick their arse 1 v 5 in less than 5 mins.

    Now I need to worry and struggle whether that 3rd party program available for them is a good thing or bad thing for me...
     
  27. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    :sad2::sad2::sad2::sad2::sad2:

    I remember when they were everywhere.Any tool could go out and tame one.If your in the have nots, thats your own damn fault.

    I don`t think the Gdragon nerf was such a big deal.I barely noticed the change in mine on such things like Grizzle/Travesty.Will this mean the end of the "BOO HOO I got rolled in a PvP zone" threads?...... I don`t think so.I`m sure some will still blame their pvp incompatence on the big bad dwagon.
     
  28. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    So where do you stand? Do you still hate this nerf based on what you read about it or do you hate it based on practice? Often it seems to me some people just like to complain and don't even bother to play the game they are complaining about. They'd rather come here and seem to get off more on being negative on boards than on having fun in-game, but that's just my opinion of course. Mind you, I'm not attacking you Lord Frodo. I actually admire that you went out and tested it to validate/test your opinions. We are all swayed by arguments, but more often than not, I login and have had fun in UO for 12+ years, the negative arguments be [email protected]
     
  29. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    Just an FYI on this. My t-hunter was in the same position, having it be such a pill to finish off the AW. I added S/W to my tamer, WoD really helps finish off the best.

    I use a taming Mark of the Travesty, the taming talisman and jewelry with vet/mage/med to bring me up to where I need to be. Once I get Imbuing up I'll make my jewelry to get my t-hunter exactly where I want them. This is what they will be:

    105 Taming (+15 with Travesty and Tali) = 120
    105 Lore (+15 with Travesty and Tali) = 120
    90 Magery (+30 with ring and brace) = 120
    90 Vet (+30 with ring and brace) =120
    110 Med (+10 with Elf Leggings) = 120
    120 SpellWeaving
    100 Lockpick/Carto (soul stone swap).

    Right now my template is pretty much like that except magery is 110 not 120, spell weaving is 115, taming and lore are only at 115 etc.
     
  30. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Obviously, he doesn't hate it anymore. Hence the preterit.
     
  31. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I think maybe this change brings us back to a place where, like warriors without chiv, we have to choose the right tool for the job. As opposed to pulling out the Binford Taminator 3000 deluxe every-single-time.

    We have other really fine pets in this game, I have 2 dread mares that have never been out on a hunt, they only ranked a 3 in the pet power calculator, and I hope for an opportunity at some point, to tame more. I still love the dickens out of my Rune beetle, for group hunting there is none better. And Hiryus make great tanks as long as you are choosing their opponents wisely.
     
  32. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    My main char is a tamer and I personally don't mind the nerf. I was still able to easily solo baracoon so it isn't too bad. It just took a little longer.
     
  33. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    What exactly was nerfed on them?
     
  34. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    Put it to ya this way; My GD couldn't handle 2 wyverns and a lava elementals in the Underworld. I couldn't heal fast enough I'm afraid. Especially when you're being bombarded by those pesky fire ants. LOL
     
  35. I haven't taken mine out yet, but even if they are nerfed, more than the nerf itself is that instead of figuring out a way to address the issues with pvp and gd's, they just smacked them with the nerf bat. I never understand why it is so hard to code for a difference between players and regular mobs's. You can't tell me that in the code there isn't a differential line of code that distinguishes between npc and player.
     
  36. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Were you able to do it before the nerf?
     
  37. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

    The incident I had in the Underground yesterday wasn't so much that my GD was too weak. Rather, I was too preoccupied to heal fast enough. lol
     
  38. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    What people are forgetting is this: greater dragons were never meant to be that overpowered. Draconi even admitted it. They were supposed to lose power upon taming just like every other tamable animal, but they didn't. The devs just FIXED what was broken. They didn't nerf anything. Really if you want to get picky, everyone was exploiting a bug when using their GD.

    On a different note, the greater dragons were so powerful when tamed, that really you could walk in to Destard and tame the first one you saw and be happy with it. Now, just like every other pet, you need to carefully select the one you wish to tame. Or kill a whole bunch until a good one spawns. That would explain the difference in those g-drags who seem different after the patch. I personally haven't been out to test my GD, mainly because I don't use my GD tamer except to res pets for friends, but I imagine I'll take him out shortly to test. I haven't been hunting with him in so long though, that my findings would be of little use. I'll probably see how he ranks on the power calculator and most likely tame a new, better one.
     
  39. MorganaLeFey

    MorganaLeFey Guest

    My GD did better before then. But, as I've stated... I was too preoccupied and so I wasn't healing him as much as I needed to.

    I should also say that I don't mind the nerf. I'll just have to adjust to it is all. No biggie.
     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    The only thing worth anything?? Good lord. GDs are still super powerful, and tamers have PLENTY of other good pets as well.

    I'm a tamer, and I fully endorse this nerf. Long time coming.
     
  41. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Gee, how did we ever survive doing a thunt before Greater Drags........:twak:
     
  42. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    Well, AW's were less powerful back then. They really boosted the power level of AW's and even Balrons. Though like many things I am not so sure lvl 6 maps were supposed to be soloable of course but that is another topic.
     
  43. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed 100%

    Wenchy
     
  44. ejpeters

    ejpeters Journeyman
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    I am very curious how tamers got into the pvp scene. PVP is player verus player not a pet. I think pvp should stay that way. Years ago no pvper dragged along his stable to kill another player.
    PVP should be all hand to hand combat as well as spellcasting.

    Just my two cents.
     
  45. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Didn't take it as an attack. So far I and the other Tamer saw no real differance in our GDs. As I said the Swoops were all above norm and it did not seam to take any longer than what I had done pre SA going live. I am not sure what this nerf did or was suppose to have done but SO FAR IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT IS GOING TO AFFECT MY PLAY STYLE AT ALL. I have also played for over 12+ yrs, but as a tamer I am a noob, less than 1 year. I read posts from people that gave me info on taming and when they said how bad this was I took it as being OMG why. The only player I could not stand up to was the old tamer with his 2-4 draggies, LOL those were the days, no slots. I played true malee players and loved it. I do not PvP and never did, so I would not be able to tell if this effected that part of the game or not. As I said and I will repeate it SO FAR IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT IS GOING TO AFFECT MY PLAY STYLE AT ALL.

    Other players need to test on things that they have done before SA to judge for yourself. Doing this new stuff will tell you nothing because you do not know what they were like before SA. You also need to Lore what you are fighting to make sure the RNG either loves you or hates you. Last night it hated me, LOL.
     
  46. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OMG what game were you playing. Sorry! Tamers, no slots, 2-4 Draggies OWNED. Mages pre NERF OWNED. The only true PvPer fought with with honor but most were just PKers or PK groups. There was little 1v1 because other people wouldn't stay out of it. You wanted 1v1, Tamers were there to control the crowd. Get in the way and you got chomped or the beloved overpowered Mage smoked you. Either way you were dust.
     
  47. hakeem

    hakeem Journeyman
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    I was on a break at the time, but seems like they bumped the AW up around time GD appeared?
    Wonder if they gonna bump it back again if that's the case.
    O no wait, thunters haven't got new content other than a craftable wall deco in like 5 years or so?
     
  48. ejpeters

    ejpeters Journeyman
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    Lord Frodo,
    I began playing UO when it was first released and have been playing ever since. PVP was just that player vs. player and never was a tamer's pet involved.
    I remember many wars between groups such as the orcs, the original player orcs, and never did anyone use a pet. PVP has turned away from its origins.
    So OMG, the game I was playing was indeed a different one from you I guess.
    I stopped pvping when elite items and pets came into play and when there was no fair PVP experience.
     
  49. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Ok, let me try this with my fighter.
    ......
    ......
    res please.
     
  50. Bardie

    Bardie Lore Keeper
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    there's already a whiner thread in the tamers forum no need for a second one...yes i have a tamer, yes i have a GD, yes they were overpowered. Sick of hearing it....

    once again GD's finally got :owned: