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The "insurance bug" strikes again...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_revenant2, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. A guildmate with plenty of insurance money dropped his 50-60 million gold suit onto his corpse in a fight today.

    This guy had managed to get a valuable suit but he is too newish to have been running untoward software that theoretically might have contributed to letting his stuff drop. This "insurance bug" deal is without a doubt a UO thing, not a player-fault thing and not a third-party-software thing.

    Makes me want to just not do stuff in-game and wait for a fix, somehow.

    The people of modest in-game financial means (and who are least able to replace their stuff) tend to wear their best stuff. A single incident like this wipes out their net worth because the stuff they are wearing is the cumulation of a long time of saving and trading their highest-value items. Those are the people who are most likely to quit after a loss such as this.

    Doing whatever it takes to fix this bug should be of the highest priority. Anyone who is active in fel knows this problem is for real and how bad its impact can be. This should be a higher priority than any weird gargoyle expansions that most of us won't even get to see because it's KR only (or so I hear).
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What would all you guys had to play without insurance. God I miss the old days.

    I hear siege dosnt have insurance, maybe he can try there.
     
  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    Uhh, wipes out their net worth? omg....I could have sworn this was a game we were playing.
     
  4. Honestly, unless you can figure out how to reproduce this bug then submit it as a bug report, then you're just blowing wind complaining about it.

    They can't fix a bug that they can't recreate, no matter how long they stare at the code.
     
  5. <blockquote><hr>

    They can't fix a bug that they can't recreate, no matter how long they stare at the code.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    True, but race conditions are rarely reproducable, but still very much there. (I say that because from the reports there is a fair chance that the bug is due to a race condition)
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Honestly, unless you can figure out how to reproduce this bug then submit it as a bug report, then you're just blowing wind complaining about it.

    They can't fix a bug that they can't recreate, no matter how long they stare at the code.

    [/ QUOTE ]This may be true, but it doesn't make up for the two items I've lost. VERY irritating.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Your friend lied. He was embarrased to admit I killed him and he forgot to put money in his bank.



    "GREAT" suit for sale!!!
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Most of the time the "insurance bug" is in the heat of the moment you click yourself and click cancel renew item insurance by accident.

    Set up shift click option and it will never happen.
     
  9. You know, on Siege we dont have this problem.
     
  10. sorry ...

    but ...
    "This guy had managed to get a valuable suit but he is too newish to have been running untoward software ..."
    Doesn't "add up" ...IF he had time to get a 50-60millio suit ... he had time and opportuinty to get hacked / acquire hacks.

    "without a doubt a UO thing, not a player-fault thing and not a third-party-software thing."
    [​IMG] the real established "fact" ... at this point is:
    It IS a combination of all three
    Client / Server(UO thing)
    Player fault
    Third party software

    Any ONE of which ... can and does occur ... independent of the other two.
    Client / Server ... acknowledged by devs ..."can't fix" because it is intermittent, un reproducable(on demand), the line, word, punctuation, symantical syntax error ... haven't been found yet ...

    Player fault ... can't code a fix to make 'em smarter.

    Third party software ... exists
    don't accept files from anyone ... to "do" or "test" or "see"


    "Doing whatever it takes to fix this bug should be of the highest priority."
    Lack of results does not prove lack of effort
    see above

    .
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Insurance bug still exists. I don't PvP, play mainly Tram rulesets and have had to replace items more than once --- insured, plenty cash and checks in bank, equipped. Was on my corpse. It still exists and hits at the worst possible moment.
     
  12. Kaj

    Kaj Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

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    Usually people forget to remember one of the following:
    -You need to have auto renew on
    -You need to have enough money in your bank
    -The item obviously needs to be insured
    -YOU need to have insured the item. If someone else has insured it and then you die, it won't be insured for you. You need to remove the insurance and then insure it again (just hit insure on an insured item and it will lose the insurance) when you obtain an item.

    I've personally never lost anything. And I must have died around ~500 times in the past few months (PvP testing..) under different circumstances.

    I think at least 75% of all bug reports are due to human error, rather than an actual bug. It might even be 100%.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nope, it's an actual Bug. I once lost a Totem of the Void with High Rune Beetle Protection % because of it. Nothing else but it dropped onto my corpse. Had over 800k Insurance in Bank, i'm the one that had insured it, my Auto Renew Insurance was on. It's an actual bug, after about at least a Year of people complaining about it on Stratics, why can't some people understand that it is an actual, rare bug that the Devs can't find a way to reproduce.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have to agree. I've lost items at the worst possible moment and the last time, I wasn't able to check the corpse to see if they were on there, or still insured. The last time, it was a set of leather arms. Died three times before that and got all insured items back, dressed, and back to the battle. The fourth time I lost the arms, but had plenty of gold and checks in the bank to cover insurance cost, so it can't just be a problem of clicking on yourself and somehow selecting the "Do not Renew" on insurance.

    When this happens, the only thing I have noted is that I am always around a lot of spellcasting creatures and getting bombarded with spells. I was also using UOAssist to dress, so it might be a problem with UOAssist?
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    DOES NOT EXIST, I'VE SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN: The insurance bug is caused by nothing more or less than player stupidity. People have told me things range from it only "happens" on certain tiles to just downright stupid stuff which they can backup with NO evidence whatsoever.

    Until someone shows me some clear cut evidence I'll just point and laugh at people who've mysteriously been hit by the "insurance bug".

    <blockquote><hr>

    Anyone who is active in fel knows this problem is for real and how bad its impact can be

    [/ QUOTE ]

    More like anyone who is a blue gate hugger who goes to fel for an hour a day and rarely steps out of the rocks and when they finally do, lose their stuff knows how much of a real problem it is.

    I've killed atleast 10k+ and died a fair bit too, never have I seen the insurance bug (not to say I've seen people lose items they thought were insured when they really weren't).
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Usually people forget to remember one of the following:
    -You need to have auto renew on
    -You need to have enough money in your bank
    -The item obviously needs to be insured
    -YOU need to have insured the item. If someone else has insured it and then you die, it won't be insured for you. You need to remove the insurance and then insure it again (just hit insure on an insured item and it will lose the insurance) when you obtain an item.

    I've personally never lost anything. And I must have died around ~500 times in the past few months (PvP testing..) under different circumstances.

    I think at least 75% of all bug reports are due to human error, rather than an actual bug. It might even be 100%.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Correct, it is 100%.
     
  17. alyssya

    alyssya Guest

    How do you explain having to pick up a blessed item off your corpse then?

    I agree that the INSURANCE part of this "bug" might well be 80% player fault, but I've personally had to pick up a Blessed item, more than once, from my corpse...

    I used teh CBD myself on it, never gave the item to another character, and have no idea how it happened...

    -shrugs-

    ~A
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "Until someone shows me some clear cut evidence I'll just point and laugh at people who've mysteriously been hit by the "insurance bug"."

    And i'll point and laugh my ass off when you get hit by it and come crying to the boards about it.

    Can't even begin to count the number of times that people said it was due to player mistake, yet a few months later that same person posts on Stratics how they got hit by it and are a believer now. Your number's in the raffle, you better hope the Insurance Bug doesn't pull it.

    Was solo raiding a Despise Champ when i lost the Totem of the Void BTW.
     
  19. "your friend" and he is "too newish", rarely do you ever see the actual person post, theres many other factors that make this unbelieveable but im not waisting my time. i've been playing for 10 years many many hours a day and i've never lost a thing since insurance has been around.
     
  20. Hmmm ... *wonders WHY the nickname IS the nickname* [​IMG]

    Jeremy_EAMythic VIP
    UO Community Coordinator
    Re: Insurance bug... [Re: ariesgeek]
    #3828158 - 01/10/07
    If somebody could PM me any sort of steps to reproduce, or any theories you have about how this is happening, I could get some people looking at it. As it is, I believe you that something's wrong, but I can't tell exactly what is happening or how.

    [​IMG]
    In the mean while, not that it could possibly change your mind, just something to fill the time ....
    Check with:

    Arcus
    Syncros
    Petra Fyde
    Lilac Crypt
    Surgeries
    S!ckLoveR
    T'Amon-from work
    Hiho
    a Freakin God
    Lord_Chaos
    NewThunder
    Gildar
    JCtheBuilder
    Adam_UOForums
    Al Thorin
    Experimental
    Fox (Europa)
    ....

    Just a few, over the past couple of years ...
    That in varying degrees, have seen the effects of "the mythical beast" ...
    Just (again) In the mean while, not that it could possibly change your mind, just something to fill the time ....

    While we see if some mod ... can find the Wilki request for input ... And/or Jeremy can reveiw the bug-reports ... suggestion box from feed back ... and/or poll the surviving Devs (Leurocian Draconi) and/or ask Adida(ChrissayEAMythic) (former GM) ... ya know ...
    SOMETHING a little more "substantial" ...
    Than Your observations ...

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What would all you guys had to play without insurance. God I miss the old days.

    I hear siege dosnt have insurance, maybe he can try there.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Just one blessing... cmon over heh
     
  22. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    As Fayled said, ask any one of us who have been hit by it.
    It has happened to me in Ilsh killing Lich Lords (a gorget), in Fel while fighting on a mage dexxer (my best warfork) at the portal to Bucs den and, I believe Destard in Tram (the very first time, didn't know of any bug at the time).
    I have seen it my self happen to other players, one guy losing an orny and arcane my guildmate plucked off his corpse fighting at the gate with the "insured" tag still on it.
    Give it up Petrify.
    It happens.
    It's not always player error.
    I have a feeling, however, you are stuck in a mindset rivaling that of the Minister of Information of Iraq.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    As Fayled said, ask any one of us who have been hit by it.
    It has happened to me in Ilsh killing Lich Lords (a gorget), in Fel while fighting on a mage dexxer (my best warfork) at the portal to Bucs den and, I believe Destard in Tram (the very first time, didn't know of any bug at the time).
    I have seen it my self happen to other players, one guy losing an orny and arcane my guildmate plucked off his corpse fighting at the gate with the "insured" tag still on it.
    Give it up Petrify.
    It happens.
    It's not always player error.
    I have a feeling, however, you are stuck in a mindset rivaling that of the Minister of Information of Iraq.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    +1!
     
  24. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    Yeah.. Siege doesn't have an insurance bug [​IMG]
     
  25. I haven't experienced the insurance bug myself, nor do I personally know anyone who suffered from it. However, until now <font color="red">I did not know that you had to personally insure the item</font>. I thought, when an item had the "Insured" tag, it would still be insured, even if it was traded. Thanks for clearing that up!

    I could be, that many other players do not know about this or simply don't notice, because it cannot be determined who insured the item by looking at its properties! This could also by accident happen to experienced players.
     
  26. OptPrime

    OptPrime Guest

    Unless your 1 item drops, then im sure you'll be glad to rightfully complaina bout how something needs to be investigated. Because there is an insurance bug, and although nobody really knows how to recreate it. I've been on both ends of it. Both losing items, and seeing someone's items drop while still insurance tagged after killing them.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Give it up Petrify.
    It happens.
    It's not always player error.
    I have a feeling, however, you are stuck in a mindset rivaling that of the Minister of Information of Iraq.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Show me some clear cut evidence?


    Didn't think so.
     
  28. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>


    -YOU need to have insured the item. If someone else has insured it and then you die, it won't be insured for you. You need to remove the insurance and then insure it again (just hit insure on an insured item and it will lose the insurance) when you obtain an item.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wrong, an insured item will stay insured as long as you have 'auto renew insurance' on, no matter who insured it.
     
  29. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>

    The people of modest in-game financial means (and who are least able to replace their stuff) tend to wear their best stuff. A single incident like this wipes out their net worth because the stuff they are wearing is the cumulation of a long time of saving and trading their highest-value items. Those are the people who are most likely to quit after a loss such as this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmmm. Maybe turning UO into a Diablo2 clone with AoS wasn't such a good idea afterall... [​IMG]
     
  30. Considering most players have never experienced it, and you have 3 times tells me something.

    It is obviously your mistake.

    Most people don't win the lottery 3 times nor are they in 3 plane crashes either.

    If something is so rare, than you are at fault.

    I call BS on the insurance bug.

    People always love playing the victim.

    Take responsibility for your own actions.

    As far as your Iraq comment; I think it is you that is misinformed.
     
  31. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Show me some clear cut evidence?


    Didn't think so.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And what evidence would you like? And how do you propose I give it to you?
    If my word isn't enough, then that's too bad.
    Believe what you like, or not. I personally don't care, but you can bet I'll be laughing my a$$ off if I find out it ever happens to you cuz if it does, I highly doubt you'll be mentioning it on these boards.
     
  32. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Considering most players have never experienced it, and you have 3 times tells me something.

    It is obviously your mistake.

    Most people don't win the lottery 3 times nor are they in 3 plane crashes either.

    If something is so rare, than you are at fault.

    I call BS on the insurance bug.


    People always love playing the victim.

    Take responsibility for your own actions.

    As far as your Iraq comment; I think it is you that is misinformed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's comforting to know we have players in this game that know it all.
    Call BS all you want, I hope to god it happens to you.
    I have played this game for about 7 yrs now, don't think I'm some newb who just got here and doesn't know squat about the game mechanics.
    I have taken every precaution possible to make sure it doesn't happen
    Gold in piles in the bank, NEVER less than 500K.
    The context menu cannot be accessed unless the shift key is held down.
    All items are checked for insurance before I play, even though I haven't changed my suit in months.
    Auto renewal is checked before I play.
    I uninsure then REinsure every item after I xshard, then die at least three times to make sure they stay insured, ditto for things I buy that are already insured.

    Got any other bright ideas besides maybe knowing what you're talking about before you "open your mouth" on a forum?
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    gee, ya think! I still dislike it intensely in that regard.
     
  34. AdamD

    AdamD Guest

    Aye, it happened to me and friends I'd play with, more than once

    Sometimes it'd be a single item, or many items, there was no set pattern, it just seemed to be random.

    I always had plenty of gold in the bank (both in coins and check form)

    And I always checked the "Auto insure items" thing before I ever hunted and also after items would be missing, it was never unchecked.

    Everytime items went missing, they'd still be marked as "Insured" on my corpse.
     
  35. I think I have a solution to at least one case of this problem. This doesnt fix the actual problem (whatever it is) but fixes the effects.

    Just after someone dies and the insurance is calculated, add a bit of code that rechecks every item left on the corpse. If an item has the insured or blessed property, move it to either the ghosts backpack or to the bankbox.
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    "your friend" and he is "too newish", rarely do you ever see the actual person post, theres many other factors that make this unbelieveable but im not waisting my time. i've been playing for 10 years many many hours a day and i've never lost a thing since insurance has been around.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    QFT
     
  37. Babble

    Babble Guest

    I also play for 9 years and never saw a speedhacker
    Nor have I seen a resource scripter.

    Best proof it does not exist!
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I also play for 9 years and never saw a speedhacker
    Nor have I seen a resource scripter.

    Best proof it does not exist!

    [/ QUOTE ]I've seen both. Speedhacker twice and resource scripters many many times. 6 plus year vet
     
  39. Babble

    Babble Guest

    As I have never seen it, I can say it does not exist though.
    If I cannot imagine it, then it does not exist, as even if it does exist I would not see it.

    So there is neither speedhacking nor unattended macroing for me.
    *nod nod*

    Others use the same logic, so why not me too!
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have too admit I have never had a problem with insurance.
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have too admit I have never had a problem with insurance.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *laughs* kelmo, you play Siege, which has no insurance!
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've seen more speedhacker's than i can count. Accidentally walked into a Speedhacker's Convention at Yew Gate a couple weeks ago and had at least 6 of them chasing me.

    I've seen a buttload of Resource Scripters too, before they randomized the Resources, i would just toss a Globe on their Recall spot, so they couldn't recall back to Mine/LJ.