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The Keep... A proposal

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MalagAste, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    So... talking about Keeps and the mousehole.. and we'd mentioned before here on Stratics about putting in doors or something to make the keep more useful... I made a proposal to "change" the keep just a bit. Something I think could be done that wouldn't affect much ... and since you can no longer mark a rune and recall into your keep voids I think that considerations should be given to make the keep more not only user friendly but open and useful. Now mind you I did this in another game... a voxel type game so if it looks weird that's why but I think you can get the idea by looking at the pictures of what I'm proposing. Now I couldn't put the doors on it but where there is a beam over an opening that is a door. I left the current holes in the wall for shooting intruders but I also added a second inner door. So Keep owners can let folk "in" without granting them "full" access to the keep. So if they wanted to place a bulletin board or something in the entrance they could but still keep folk out by securing the second set of doors..... Now here is the "current" keep so you can compare I made it as well using the voxel program:

    [​IMG]
    This is the First Floor Current Keep layout
    [​IMG]

    Current Keep Second Floor Layout (blocks in inner corners represent the down stairwells)

    Now this is the proposed changes I'd like to see to the Keep:
    [​IMG]

    First floor: Note, this is adding basically 4 doors, 2 in the "front" side rooms and two across from the current entry doors. Note as well both sides would now extend all the way to the outter wall and the back while divided yet significantly increases the size of the two back rooms ..... note as well the front stairs are both removed and the back two sets of stairs remain... Now I don't have the mainfloor stairs in there but they would remain as they are....

    [​IMG]

    Now this would be the proposed new second floor. Note that I moved the back wall of the main room back to the back of the keep... Honestly I think it improves the room significantly ... Now the stairs in the two front rooms are gone making these two room much larger and more useful. The center room while it will have stairs in the middle of it will still be greatly improved as well as the roof over the middle room will now be connected to both the back towers and will be significantly more useful. Now if you really wanted to be more useful another set of stairs could be put in beside the current stairs leading up to the roof.

    Now I highly doubt anything would ever come of this but ..... I think it would be a big improvement. Castles can use the courtyard now but keep owners are still SOL on using the voids in their walls. The VERY least they could do would be to put doors in the two front rooms and one of the back rooms to allow us to enter the voids and if we can no longer mark and recall into them we ought to be able to deco them. Even some sort of teleport could be placed to let you into those area's and give us some space... The keep while a lovely building on the outside is vastly useless on the inside. The rooms that are there are so tiny and taken up by stairs that they honestly aren't really useful for much of anything. You can hardly but a chair and table in the upper side rooms since they are largely dominated by stairs.

    Anyway just a thought I had while I was tinkering away in another land.
     
  2. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    It would seem to me that when they made the inside of castles part of the house, they laid the perfect ground work to offering some additional footprint options for both castles and keeps. While I would absolutely love the option to customize those footprints with the current story restrictions (2 plus a roof) I would gladly settle for 3 or 4 (or more) variations for each. The current layout for both is very inefficient.

    Heck, make it a gold sink. Current price to place the current designs. 50 mill and 30 mill to convert castles and keeps respectively to a new design.
     
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  3. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Someone posted their idea to have a contest to redesign castles a while back. I like the idea of having a few different options that you could convert them to. I don't want them fully customizable, but something that utilizes the space more efficiently would be awfully nice. Same for keeps. I'd definitely drop 30-50M to convert my castle to a better design! (Seriously, why so many halls?!)
     
  4. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I who have a ton of both building types agree with all here that something different is needed.
    I have managed to deco a few keeps rather well and make use of every inch given but would love to knock a few walls out and use that first floor space for other means..
    It is the tower turrets that are useless.....
    unless you make a bathroom and closet in them...
    but that leaves 2 more turrets that have little use as the space is way too small.
    I like the idea of the use of the viod for perhaps acess to the rooms below and do away with the stairs and make it bigger in footage that way.

    I saw that post with the entrys for new designs for both keeps and castles...
    I liked the idea and wanted to add in if done with a few different stone types (real stone types that is)
    Many would go for it in a heartbeat.
    They could even open up Malas to the placement.
    Even offering a smaller foot print for the castle would go over if a 3rd floor was in the offering.
    Many wanted the bigger houses due to space and lockdowns.
    If it was my doing I'd put a 5 k lock down on all houses under keep size.
    Keep and Castle to max of 10k.
    With the different footprints that could be added in for our choices, even adding in a redesign option for all exsisting homes that would allow the change without hurting the status of the other houses on the account (if any) this would make players more happy.
    Not everyone wants a castle.. but do have need of the lockdowns.
     
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    It's lockdowns that keeps me in the Keep and Castle. If I didn't need them so badly I wouldn't have them. Since they are utterly useless in terms of what you can do with them

    I've said before they need to offer at LEAST 3 or 4 different "styles" of keep and Castle. There are a number of people that are extremely talented in terms of redoing them. The DEV's could whip out a program that would allow us to make a custom keep and castle and submit the idea's to them.. and they can vote on their top choices that they would allow and then we the players could vote on the top even 4 or 5 of each and those would be then available... and then they should give the choices to switch designs under the custom mode in the house sign. I honestly don't think it would be THAT bad or difficult.

    At some point if I get time I'll make an alternate for the Castle and post that. But it's not real easy working with voxels to get everything just right and I'm rather bummed I forgot to include the main stair!.. ah well. Anyway I think it's worth discussing...

    One thing I always thought they should do is offer up a paid plot that is 24x24 and has the storage of a Castle. If they did I bet you'd see very few castles anymore. And let it be placeable in Malas... pity sakes the place is becoming a ghost land.
     
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  6. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    I actually don't mind the current Keep design. Granted the two first floor rooms in the back are useless but it's grown on me. I wouldn't complain if we could open up some of the unused realestate though.

    Funny story, I recreated a UO Keep in Minecraft once and I realized how much unused space was when zombies started spawning in the walls!
     
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  7. Ellie

    Ellie Seasoned Veteran
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    Thats basically what I was thinking of doing with the keep. Moving out the walls inside, doors to the corner rooms, leave the stairs where they are. Take out the steps that are in the corner rooms since they will have doors. The upper floor I would leave the same. One other thing is give us a choice of stone types for the towers, keeps and castles.
     
  8. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    I would just go with a 32 x 32 housing plot.
     
  9. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    I'd like to see more options for castles/keeps BUT NOT THIS, for apurely selfish reasons That reason? I am tired of 18x18 borg cubes and a 32x32 one is just uncalled for.
     
  10. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    I would love the option to change my keep, but NO 32x32 houses! I would like to be able to change the interior of a keep, but if that wont' work, why not have the option to choose from 3 or 4 different designs that fit in the same footprint?
     
  11. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Look the castles we have are fine and when the Dev first said something about customizable houseing I first thought omg.. dream come true.
    Move a wall here put door here not there and replace the stairs with teleporters.. I was in 7th heaven.... then the Dev gaveme a rude awakinging. We who have keeps and castles were left out. My tower the small changes to make it more easer for me... *poof*

    I too dont wish to see cubes of any shape or size ... I have seen many in the last few years that show so little creativity in an 18x18 no less.
    Not to mention the grosse blue stone.......
    I like the idea of a few different designs for a keep and castle the keeps foot print but design the interior to suit you. Castles of different foot print size with the current the max you get and again let the interior design be a player choice.. 4 or 5 different castle sizes and stone choice for all would be a great addition to house placement. Let the external look like a castle... or keep ...
    I think this will please even the staunchest borg cube hater...
     
  12. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    No they are not. They are stupid static structures in a game that is supposed to be a sandbox. It's easier to recall out of the house (or "leave house) than it is to get from the north hallway to the center room. That is asthetics > functionality.

    If the "castles we have are fine" this statement is a fabrication.

    Oh My God... can we get rid of that blight upon our countryside. I'd rather live in 7x7s again than have those around.

    Once again... How are "the castles we have are fine" if you still want to edit them?

    Castles are NOT fine in fact. I think the idea of customizing the castle itself would be an improvement and better than 32x32 plots. We could use optional walls, doors, and even swapping teletiles for stairways would be a cool idea that won't break the established footprint. Heck even a third floor wouldn't hurt.
     
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  13. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Speranza
    The castle is fine for me as per size.
    Your issue with their size is your business... just dont step on my property rights.
    As for the walls.. that is another story...
    I have owned a castle from 97 to present... well let me amend that.
    I own 20 of them.
    I know them very well, the design was good for 97.. as well as the same for keeps.
    The shape is fine, its the interior that needs buffing up for the modern UO needs.
    I have deco'ed them in tons of ways and made them into homes one would like to live in.
    It was just reciently that the courtyard was made useable and lockdowns added for deco... in the first years my recall was to that inner courtyard where I was safe .. Orc's spawned inside the walls and sometimes in the house. So you can understand ,my first castle was in the compassion desert under the sand in fel.
    To ask how I can make differing statements you need to understand my experience with UO...
    Size is not my issue, I would like to change the configuration of the inner walls and doors.. same for my towers and keeps. To this I also thing a few different stone types would go along way to be more attractive.
    I would support the design of new configurations, sizes and styles of the proposed addition to the choices menu.
    For both castles and keeps, a few more choices added to the 2 we have would please many who want a change.
    My idea of a set lock down for other houses under the keep size, of 5k and 10 for the castle and keep no matter what design you pick would go over big time.
    Not everyone wants a big home..its the lock downs that made the Castle and Keep a must have.
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You're right Storm it's the Lockdowns.... that alone is the reason most of us feel the need to have a castle or keep.

    If I didn't need them I would only have the one castle. You can't live in Newcastle and not have the castle there. But anymore Castles are not "few" or "rare" they are everywhere.

    I think that would change is storage wasn't an issue.
     
  15. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I took a look at what is IN STORAGE at my various castles and keeps last night.....
    OutSide the 4 Castles that make up the Smithsonian Museum setup that is.
    Just to get an idea of what is the major reason I have so many ...perhaps to see if there was some other reason to have a smaller lockdown count. Not counting the fact of how many accounts I run.... out of them.

    T - maps & SoS's.... every shard had at least 10 chests before the Davies locker ... sad to say I still need more lockers! even my keeps had 1 table up and was near bursting and there was boxes more of the fun stuff.
    Gifts .... made a good stack of chests
    Bod books full ....... One of the reasons I have asked for them to go to 1 book 1 lockdown no matter if full or empty then my tailor would carry her / his books and let me have some room hehe
    Mats..... You name the profession its in the chests.. Carpentry, minier, smith, tailor, scribe, etc.... the mats and tools add up fast.
    Armor, Weapons and already made furninature... Idk about you but i do change the colors and styles to reflect my moods and season.. hey its a house and personally all ARE my homes. Not just a storage locker.
    Boats... I think I own the royal navy of many shards that I have that many ... (every character in the old days carried one... 53 accounts ships add up)
    Plants, seeds, bowls, and mats to keep them going... yes I have beds, on one castle alone there are 8 and full.. You would be surprised how many of those seed tables I have full... and no I dont keep in the table the over abundance of mat seeds like snake plants seeds and coco seeds, etc... that would fill one table alone and still fill another one half way! So those are stacked.
    Geesh... ok I need the lock downs...

    Now do you see my point?

    I have on almost every shard I play at the very least 1 house... some no house but working out of a bank box is getting on my nerves.
    The main need is Lockdowns period.
    I can see the player who has 1 account with 1 character the need for a small home to hold his basic needs... for 5 to 7 characters.. that house best have a ton of lockdowns. My first account, each character got a small 7x7 house with my main a tower... which developed to a castle.
    I found with my nephew and son playing the room for work even in 97 was a house storage issue and we didnt have but the basic lockdowns and 1 secure....!

    So yea storage is the main issue why the land of UO is stuffed to the rafters with castles and keeps..
    On some shards that I dont have a house a small home say a 10 x 10 plot with 5k storage would be great...

    If the Dev see their way to allow us new designs and sizes and a way to customize the old I do hope they take the lockdowns into account too.
     
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  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Without the Castle size lockdowns you'd NEVER be able to keep a gift. Forget trying to collect anything.

    Just to keep my stuff for crafting and Imbuing I need the lockdowns of an 18x18... With all that forget trying to keep BoD's.

    Want to do plants? I have a whole keep full... with 2 seed boxes.

    How about stealables and deco things... I have 2 18x18 packed to the gills.

    Cooking don't even get me started on all the crap you can acquire just with food items... Horn of Plenty and the Cornucopia full of crap... picnic baskets, 10 to 20 different fruits... now how many bottles of smuggled wines? Different kinds of fishstakes, pies, etc.... yes takes an entire housefull of that crap too....

    One Castle 2 18x18's packed with just gifts...

    I don't know how anybody does it with just one house and one account.

    They wouldn't be able to fish, do plants, or craft.... least not decently or without having to run get stuff everytime they want to make things.

    And don't even get me started on THunting because for a long time I haven't been able to do any of that. Where the heck would I put any of the crap you dig up???? No room for more vines, pet treats that don't stack, I have so many of those skeleton keys I no longer pick them up... then there are all the imbuing things, regs, gems, and pardons.....

    And 99% of the stuff doesn't stack and won't store. If I could stack my 44 Champions..... the 300 pet treats.... combine the 898 skeleton keys... PoF.... etc... even if it's only up to 100 charges it would help.
     
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  17. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    I think the takeaway here is we need a new TV show, HORDERS: UO EDITION :p

    I can't even fill up one keep with the stuff i can keep track of.....
     
  18. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    You must be an only child....
    Even if I only had a keep and ued only my main account and only 1 shard worth of its characters ... it would be over flowing....

    It was why each had their own hosue in the beginning...
    The crafter ...we dont want to go there on tools and supplies.
    Miner/scribe ... the stuff needed ..... oi vey
    My t hunter/ fisher... she needs for maps and sos's there goes the roof off the keep,,,
    and i didnt get to the rest of the crew!
    The only one of my original old characters who isnt space muncher for the 7th void is Noah my bard.... he can work out of his bank box but he has his own home (i refuse to slight one of my babys and not give them their own home)
    Well ..the others are shall we say waiting for a spot to open in this fictisous keep to put their junk...

    Yep ... I know I must be touched inthe head ... but each of my many Characters is different to me as any child is to its parent.
    Each was worked differently and has a set personality... no two are alike.... even if they got the same everything ...they are 2 different sets of entitys in the UO world.

    We are not hording.
    On the contrary, I go through on a daily basis somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 300 shovals, picks ,and at the very least 10 of the mining hammers. (no i dont run a bot..geesh i do it all by hand... and on different shard as needed)
    Mortar and pestle omg I craft up a 80 count box every time i have my alchemist make kegs for my plants! not to mention the kegs needed.
    Doing bods..... do we really have to go there? ok you asked for it....
    if you look at on only 1 shard of mine there are at the very least 12 vendors stuffed to the gills with bods for the hammers , cloth, and kits... oh dont forget the blesses too.
    I know i am not the only one who has this very set up... and hording is not the issue its need and keeping that gang of ours ready to work..
     
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  19. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    It's not just keeping my own characters all 56+ on GL's alone up and running.... it's having things handy when a friend comes home to the land.... it's being able to supply things for the numerous events that the UORPC puts on... it's being able to deco, design and create things for the numerous events we do...

    It's being able to give a new or returning player a leg up.... it's being able to give the old player that one thing they really wanted or missed from their old collection...

    It's being able to fund, create and sustain a world and group and community that keeps me saving every piece of stuff I have.

    It's not about my own desires. Though I do have a rather famous footwear collection...
     
  20. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    How is this even remotely relevant and constructive? Not to mention off topic. Please stop being a passive aggressive troll and comment with ideas to make keeps and castles better.
     
  21. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Speranza Some of the single children only think of themselves... in ways of need. I say this as a oldest child of 9 kids and one of 119 cousins.. we always thought of each other, to share and get a bit more to share with others in our family. the house was always full .. toys, food, laughter, fun. But I have known single kittens who seemed not to understand our group thinking... They didnt learn to share or think of anyone other then themselves and its a rare thing for one to be taught in this day and age to do other wise.
    I am not being mean to you just explaining why...
    We meaning Players like Mal &I we keep stuff at hand not just for our own. I have in the last 3 weeks set up 5 new or returning players with tools, mounts, suits , and basic needs that should allow them to work up to snuff quickly. All this came from my stores in my homes...
    Without the room to hold this valuable bunch of things for this use... that player might just walk away...
     
  22. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Wow. Way to dismiss someone with wild and insulting overgeneralizations. I won't argue that storage can become an problem, but if you have, as you claim, 50+ accounts and still have storage problems, then I can't see any amount of storage increase assuaging the underlying issue.

    To get back to the original topic
    , I'd prefer that the material and outside footprint remain the same, but have a few different options for interior footprint. Design contests are fun and there are some very talented player house designers! There is a lot of wasted and awkward space in the current designs of both castles and keeps. Design contest for a choice of a few different layouts has my vote.

    As for the storage issue, you can already increase the storage of your current houses by upgrading your accounts. They have already seriously increased our maximum storage capability. A serious question: how much storage should be appropriate for a single account?
     
  23. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    This implies a problem with the new player experience more than a problem with storage.
     
  24. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Riyana Are you thinking all my homes are on the same shard? I could see the over abundance of lockdowns if that were the case.
    But my homes are not all on the same shards and many which are 18 x 18 or smaller have very small groupings of lockdowns where I need more... Having so many accounts has little berring on storage lockdowns at my disposal. As i have said i do have 53 but not all are on any longer.. i have been cutting many out and dropping homes... 2 keeps and it looks like I lost a castle doe to the stupid billing... a reoccuring billing didnt work... again... so it looks like you can knock me down to about 45-47 being used...
     
  25. eth777

    eth777 Adventurer
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    Something I think people are missing with the idea of a 32x32 customizable, is that there will be some AMAZING structures built. Yes there will be some huge square block buildings, but that is just the builders loss. House customization is my favorite part of the game, and I hate having a castle that I can't change. The layout is very cumbersome, and my current castle is simply full of boxes, with a tiny bit of decorated space. Castle = storage space for me. I only have 3 houses(full storage upgrades), which I don't feel bad about anymore :) If I could get an 18x18 with the same storage I would probably take that. The entrance to the castle kills me, sure it's "realistically" a very defensible entry way, but I've not yet had a need to station archers at the entrance. I've managed to avoid the problems with the entrance by using a teleport tile from a more open custom house, but I shouldn't have to work around it.

    possible way to discourage complete borg-cube buildings: Force a few of the outermost tiles of the building to be one/two story only.
    It won't fix the problem, but it might make a few people get more creative.

    As for storage, I do agree, if you really want to be organized, you need a lot of space.

    I keep coming back to UO because there is nothing out there with such a customizable experience, relating to housing and skills. More customization=better

    Also, yes please kill the crystal walls. or make them ridiculously expensive