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The New(er) Adviser System Just A #redacted# Magnet?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Deaol, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    I don't know if this goes for the other "populated" shards but on Atlantic I swear 99% of the time I see an advisor they are just in confrontation with with a player. So I state, are he advisors just a magnet for trolls/tards? Is this advisor system really working without some form of authority? Should a player really be able to tell an advisor "**** You" and get a way with it?

    Just an observation.
     
  2. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Uh, that would be a resounding, "no". Having said that, I would think that some of the pointers handed to the playerbase over the years should apply. Advisers should give warning when language is offensive. Advisers should have the option to "walk away" from and offensive player.

    However, if there is belligerence and persistence in the behavior, then I would say the door is open to punitive action(s).
     
  3. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    I was offended for the advisor, actually kind of felt bad. 9 times out of 10 I see the advisor vanish when the player starts to display their lack of moral intelligence, which I salute... but Mesanna should really at least give these guys the ability to toss them in jail for a timeout or something to that affect.
     
  4. Spiritless

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    The advisor program is silly, tbh.
     
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  5. sablestorm

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    The Advisors helped me get my houses refreshed when the RTB was interfering with game codes. I don't find that very silly at all.
     
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  6. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    I was an *Adviser* for another game. There it was called Game Sage. Basically a go-between between the players and the GM's, so if someone pages with *OMG there's something blocking house placement can you help?* An adviser can come remove it. I don't think they can do A LOT but with the little things like that they can take care of and leave the bigger stuff to the GM's. Also on Origin, when they were around (They both seem to have disappeared) they would pop up in game just to say hi, get to know the players. One of ours attempted to have weekly shard meetings to help our community.

    With a go-between between the players and the GM's I would think it would make things run a bit more smoothly. An adviser could go through all the GM pages, handle the ones he could and pass the more difficult ones on to a GM so the GM's aren't swamped. It's a very good idea and an excellent program if implemented and used correctly.
     
  7. Val Van Wolf

    Val Van Wolf Seasoned Veteran

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  8. Val Van Wolf

    Val Van Wolf Seasoned Veteran

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    The way you used the word "#redacted#" seems to assume that retardation is a chosen affliction. IT IS NOT.
     
    #8 Val Van Wolf, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2014
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  9. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    they should absolutely be able to give jail time, and tho they've prolly been told to 'just leave the area' the next time the snert corners him the rudeness will be amplified

    they're not here to take abuse, they're here to help, and if they say 'it's not within my power' (cause I'm guessin' they get some pretty silly requests) unreasonable players will mouth off... jail seems reasonable response
     
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  10. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    I think the problem is the advisers can't really do anything, but maybe speed up the wait time. When a house in luna fell, and someone purposefully blocked placement, the adviser came but could not remove the object. Still took hours to get the thing removed by a GM.

    If an adviser comes just to check out the situation but can't do anything but say "ummm I paged a GM"....
    Well I already did that. I can see that being an annoyance factor.

    Would make more sense for the advisers to have a little help desk or something set up where you can just go and ask them questions or advice or whatever. Having them come answer pages and then not being able to do anything is a bad system set up for unhappy folks to just rant on the poor advisers.
     
  11. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Jail time or an insta-kill thunderbolt. Either one would be appropriate (my opinion).
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Advisor's helped me quite a bit when I first joined this game a long time ago. I'm actually happy that they brought it back, can help players who page GMs for quite simple matters that don't really need a GM.
     
  13. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    People have abused the GM's for years, only difference is we never saw that, and we can now see it happening to the advisors.
     
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  14. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    While i consider myself anti-pc i actually agree with this. Not meaning to offend but a better choice of words would have been better.

    * Btw i completly agree with you. At least give them the abillity to jail them till a gmcan look
     
  15. MalagAste

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    I think that anyone "working" for UO should have that ability and that includes EM's. They should have the ability to "remove" players who are being intolerable... and harassing them... or others. NO one should have to put up with that sort of behavior. Of course now that I said that I'll probably be harassed again at the next EM event... *rolls eyes*...

    I am glad I'm not alone in feeling that such things should NOT be tolerated and something should be done. I am just getting fed up with some of the stuff that has been allowed to continue. YES I could put the filter on and filter out bad language.... and yes I have used curse words in-game... but they were never directed at someone or if they were it was doing strictly in a VERY RP way. Not meant as something against the player.

    Sadly I don't see any improvement ever being made... Heck you can't ever actually get a GM anymore anyway. And as for the Advisers getting any power to do anything I rather doubt that will happen either... the EM's have never been able to do anything about the abuse and harassment they receive why should advisers be any different?
     
  16. Yadd of Legends

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    I thought advisers were supposed to, er, "advise" - not perform magic tricks like changing game pixels. But I'd be in favor of granting them the griefers to jail.
     
  17. G.v.P

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    Do players even get thrown in jail any longer? Because they should, and we should be able to throw tomatoes at an NPC version of them that's trapped within a cell.
     
  18. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Why hasn't a mod removed or edited this thread containing that evil word which most of the respectable side of society has deemed completely inappropriate ?
     
  19. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    I'm going to go with Garth on this, that word needs to be, at the very least, Redacted.
     
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  20. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I concur and removed it. Feel free to report the post to bring it to a moderator's attention sooner.
     
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  21. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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  22. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    considering that advisors are just helpful players given a tool to be more helpful, and that often when they are called upon a player is angry, i would say yes being cursed out at times kinda goes with the job. cursing is not against UO tos unless it is in a global chat.

    So tho it might not be very pleasant, i would say totally to be expected and part of the job.

    you probably just dont see all the times when a player might be at their house or in the middle of nowhere and is actually very thankful for any advice an advisor might have. At luna bank or idocs, i would only expect harsh words, misunderstanding that they are not a GM, or yes general trolling.
     
  23. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    Replace *redacted* with Zombie, I didn't mean to insult anyone here who is has a handicap, sorry for that.

    Understandable, and thank you - but even a shorter version is rather offensive. - Kirthag
     
    #23 Deaol, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2014
  24. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    All these years of talking, promising, recognising that players are 'let down' by failure to enforce any of the rules - and then being told by the people in charge they have no 'evidence' of the people we report for abuse, event disruption, scamming, and all the other rule breaking and distressing activities they inflict on everyone else, and being given the most paper-thin 'excuses' for total inaction about anything anyone does.

    The idea that anything effective is ever going to be done to clean up the game, enforce the existing rules, or simply act in a way that any decent person would automatically act when things are being done that distress or hurt other people (as well as hurting the game they claim to care about as well) is demonstrably an illusion. There is no chance anything effective is going to be done, None. Zero. We'll get a load more of the same, recycled, 'warm words' so it looks like someone cares, followed by a few distractions like shiny new things and half-working game systems, but we will never see any effective action taken, any consistent rule enforcement, and any honest and genuine drive to clear up the problems, because it's easier to pretend it's all great and hide behind the existence of rules and selective blindness about known problems than to actually do the right thing and clean them up.

    People who care about a problem, and have the powers to sort it out - sort it out. Lesser people talk about how much they care, how important the people are, how sorry they are when things are wrong, and then try spin and disguise the situation with endless (and endlessly repeated) empty phrases and false assertions of how seriously they take this.... when it's so clear to anyone who looks back, it's taken 'seriously' up to the point where anything is actually DONE - and then dropped, to be papered over with more words.

    Truth is - everything on the servers belonged to or belongs to EA/Mythic/Broadsword. They have the absolute right to do anything to player accounts they choose - it's there, in black and white, in the rules and ToS. They have good rules that would have cleared out all the problems we see in player behaviour - what they have never done, and I'm convinced will never do, is actually enforce them in any meaningful manner. The will to do that is simply not there when it can be covered over with spin, distractions and worthless, never fulfilled, promises.

    They have the tools, they have the powers, they do not have the will, backbone or the integrity to use them. But boy, will they talk about how they will make it all so much better, some time in the future, and how much they care..... again. And again. And again.....
     
  25. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    The Advisors do a great job at mediating the circumstances. Lets remember that before, we used to get an automated email that had nothing to do with our help request. AT the very least now we are speaking to a real person that can share your pain and empathize with the situation you are in.

    I dont think there is a perfect scenario for UO, there will always be people that disagree with how it should be run. It is exactly the same with real life why would we expect an online video game to be any different. The advisor program is awesome and I for one am glad it exists because I remember that its a step in a positive direction.
     
  26. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

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    I will try give my objectative opinion ( I think I just made a word up)
    First of all, where do you draw the line with what is acceptable and what is Jail time/bannable in game....... Everyone thinks differently and react differently to situations. Younger players wont get so affected by rude words and cursing while a more veteran elder player might find this as a great deal and will want the player to be banned. Also the use of words can be misinterpreted, we all knowing that this game has people from all over the world...
    Also the claims that if a popular or known character (Player) falls into these rules by breaking them, is the punishment the same for him as for a griefter or known trouble maker? I can see big favouritism appearing very quick and people complaining about it..... Do remember these counsellors play ingame but not in the same shard they are helping in, so very quickly it can be biased between friends who visit their shard....
    I know they are professional, And I am sure they been trained and taught not to do or else they lose their jobs, but the possibility can still happen, although it wont.... Hope everyone understands this point on possible favouritism.
    I got various views also why nothing up to date has been done, EA is also assessing the player they want to ban, for example:
    Player insults EM or Counsellor but has 3-7 paying accs, do they risk banning and kicking him out of the game and maybe losing a potential client??
    Also if they came in with an iron grip of banning and kicking people, Id say a lot of people would of broken the rules and would have to face the truth...
    Then last but not least, and I am sure lots of people might think of this.... Well we pay for a game subscription, which we ask a service off when problems occur in different ways... So if we page a GM or advisor and they take 5 hours if lucky to reply or a few days, well we get mad and we suppose that by paying a sub , we should get a service instantly, So if the GM or counsellor gets some lips back, well sorry, that's in a way EA problem not the players, like in any business where money is involved. when money is paid, service has to arrive or we are entitled in other businesses to ask for a complaints form which EA hasnt got ingame, so what tends to happen, the poor EMs and counsellors get the bitter end of the deal and they get ''dead cow'' thrown ontop of them by their superiors, by the inability to work a system that protects both parties. I hope its understandable and I hope it dosnt hurt or offend anyone, as I wasn't doing it with that intentions.
     
  27. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    A lot of people in this thread seem to be unaware that a main function of the new advisors is simply to move stuck spawn.
    It has always been my understanding that stuck spawn made up a nice % of legit pages so the advisors should come in very handy for that alone.
    The fact that the advisors also give pretty quick and helpful general advice to new players is a huge bonus imo.

    And no offense Smoot but taking verbal abuse should not be part of the job.
    Dealing with frustration and harsh words is one thing. Pure verbal abuse like what has been seen on Atlantic is quite another thing and should not be tolerated by anyone. And anyone making excuses for it is quite obviously part of the problem imo.

    And lol to the nutjobs that believe they are paying for 'instant' service/response.
    I would bet my last dollar that 90% of the pages could be avoided if the players actually went to the website and used the search feature. No company could instantly babysit 90% of its client base in that manner.
    $13 a month is nothing folks. No matter how you want to multiply it by the amount of subs. Thats just not how it works
     
    #27 Goldberg-Chessy, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
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  28. Yadd of Legends

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    Why did I get a message that one of my posts in this thread was moved to a link that I don't have permission to view, whatever that means? I assume it was the post in which I suggested it was right to redact the objectionable word but would not have been right to ban the poster after he apologized for it? Will this question also be removed from the thread? I have no problem with redacting an objectionable word, but I feel very uneasy when I see one of my posts deleted.
     
  29. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    Your post was among three that were removed because it/they contained a quotation from another post that was a violation of the RoC. The quote was the reason it was removed, not the suggestion of the redaction. Sorry for the inconvenience. PM me if you would like to discuss this further.
     
  30. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
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    OK, that's fine - it just worried me, no problem.
     
  31. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    I like advisors. I can never get a gm if needed. one thing I was wondering, are they required report illegal activities? I hope so. u think it would be a requirement for position unless don't care about cheating lol
     
  32. Peekay

    Peekay Slightly Crazed

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    How long before people realize that Advisors are nothing more than glorified "Help stuck" buttons. Some of them have some knowledge about the game, the bulk of them will get their game related information second and third hand from their fellow Advisors. The only other thing they are useful for is to escalate matters directly to Mesanna via their out of game chat, if she's online at the time. A few of them have let their smalltime powers go to their head and feel they should be involved with anything and everything and even go as far as to claim they can act as GMs simply because they've been told that they are the frontline between players and GMs. This is not the truth and players playing into this misconception doesn't help the matter, especially when unless an Advisor explicitly seeks out a GM ingame and manages to build a relationship with them, they have no access or contact with GMs simply via the Advisor program outside of being able to push a player's page into the normal page queue where a GM can see it and decide whether or not to handle it.
     
  33. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    I am on Sonoma, and (in my opinion) our Advisor does an awesome job.
     
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  34. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Our advisors have been doing an excellent job on Europa - but the point of the thread was not how well they do, or what they can do - it was about the abuse that gets directed at them and the abject failure of those in charge to do anything but talk about how it should not happen and how they are so determined to act to stop it, and then do... nothing of any worth at all.

    It's about player behaviour. Something that EA/Mythic/Broadsword continually preach about but, despite all the existing rules, despite the constant promises to enforce them, despite the acknowledgements that they are 'letting us down' over these things - they refuse to get a grip on it, fail to stop it, and then selectively deny that are aware of any of the problems, since being aware would mean you really MUST act, and denying the truth whilst hiding behind smokescreens of spin and hype is far, far easier.
     
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  35. callum_fitzhugh

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    I saw an EM on an RPC at an event called a "f+++ing c===" and the EM was powerless to do anything other than wait for a more powerful person to deal with it.
     
  36. TheScoundrelRico

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    Not that I agree with that type of treatment of EM's (coming from a former EM) but the majority of the player base these days are adults who know how to let water shed off their backs.

    Should the player have used that language? No

    Should an EM be able to take that type of language in stride without having their feelings hurt? Absolutely...la
     
  37. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    I saw Mahulia (or one of his/her chars)on Sonoma say the same thing to either an advisor or an EM in general chat and nothing was done! VERY sad!