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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Velvathos, Sep 2, 2008.
I think this facet deserves a place in UO.
Frankly, since Pagan is also a term that refers to a loose collection of varying religious beliefs, most of which are not particularly evil (which the Land of Pagan from Ultima was, if memory serves) if they do put it in they should name it something else.
Think about "The Dark, Evil Land of Christian."
Actually, from perusing the Pagan manual, it appears that the name of the land was actually Morgaelin. The Pagans were the followers of the elementals, but the original society was made up of Zealans.
(Why, yes, I do have a collection of old Ultima manuals and hint books at my fingertips )
Also, from what i've seen, it's more likely it's a seperate world the Guardian controls rather than a facet of Britannia. It's similar to the other worlds from Underworld 2... they aren't copies of Britannia, they simply lie close to it in a time/space sense. Unless you somehow want to make a case that Talorus is an alternate version of Britannia.
This particular game happens to have come during a long dry period in my experience with computer games.
Basically from U5 I skipped many years, until UO came out, then I returned to the saga. I only played U9 after it was out-of-date and old.
I think Tenebrae was the main city? I had forgotten about the land being called Morgaelin... was struggling with that.
Anyways, I'm much more excited to see a proper Stygian Abyss than adding something so loosely connected to Sosaria.
I'm still waiting for the Kilrathi to attack.
Galen, if you can possibly find a copy of U7 (or Serpent Isle, or, ideally, both) I STRONGLY recommend them. Also, both Underworlds are fabulous.
Yeah, I was remembering Tenebrae but had to look up the name of the land. I don't think it was really used much, but it is mentioned in the manual.
I'd suggest Underworld 2 over 1. It both has more of a fictional link to the series than 1, and 1 has a really freaky fisheye lens perspective. Both great games, though.
Still hoping we get the Underworld and Worlds series with the SA release btw, Jeremy. Be sure to pass that to the team if they haven't considered it.. or haven't considered it enough. ;P
We have definitely considered it. I don't know what the status is at the moment, though - as with most things, it's less simple than it looks.
(And yes, 2 flows nicely in from U7, but Underworld 1 would be more... hm, current? )
Yeah, but 1 also feels more like it was supposed to be a generic D&D game that was liscensed to Ultima at the last minute. ;P
And don't worry.. I can guess just how hard it is to get the proper liscensing ties to rerelease older games. Not to mention the marketing resources for distribution. Helps for the fans to put some pressure on sometimes, though.
And hey, at least I wasn't asking for the Japanese PSX port of 1. xP
There is also one other thing i've always wanted to see though.. the Ultima manga from Japan.. always wanted to know what it was like. They did a few stories in the Britannia of Exodus and Quest of the Avatar.. maybe another game or two as well?
If I understand the story correctly, it pretty much was. I always really liked the reimagined magic system and the whole "Virtue community" plotline, though.
Hm, I wonder if anyone still has that manga around... I'll ask Kil.
Wouldn't be suprised if nobody does tho.. was made back when the games were still relatively new. XD
Oh, Pagan. What an amazing game.
Well said, lol.
Yeah, but so much unrealized potential... the last few Ultimas all suffered from being significantly shortened due to production constraints of one form or another.. not to mention we never got the expansion pack for Pagan even though it was supposedly totally completed and even had packaging made for it.
That would be a great gift for the Ultima fans too... a release of "The Lost Vale" in some form since it was supposedly complete and just left unshipped because Pagan rather tanked.
Er.. sorry.. I tend to be a bit of a dreamer.. heh..
I wish I had a complete set of old UO manuals
Maybe EA should publish all the old UO writtings in pdf/html format for our viewing pleasure
I'm such an Ultima dork. But the dorkness didn't really set in until Ultima 6 showed up and blew me away. I didn't think things could get any better... but then Ultima 7 came out. I really wish 8 and 9 had lived up to my expectations. But those years playing U6, U7 and SI which came at the perfect formative years of my life means that I will NEVER forget what Ultima really is.
UO also blew me away when I paid my $5 and got in on the beta... I know the devs are working to bring the Ultima back into UO, and that is a really nice change after years of what seemed like EA taking OUT as much Ultima as possible.
*Ahem*, there may be hope. Recently Mythic Entertainment allowed a couple fellows from WCCIC in and they backed up all of Origins data tapes and such, the forum thread goes into detail about how they got over 1TB of data, so it hopefully may at least in some form be in there!
Here's hoping, then. Please let "The Lost Vale" be in there.
That, a build of SI before everything unfinished was cut because they were running out of time, and the E3 demo build of Ascension would make me very happy.
Please we dont need more land that is hot for the first month or two, than is dead for years. THey should just add to the existing trammel and fel facets.
A lot of the SI code is still in, and a lot of the documentation was released years ago, it could be rebuilt in. And as for the E3 Map - Its still in Ascension, with a little bit of map editing you can get in, theres a ton of them (Bigger Cove is great), so many things cut out...
If Pagan did make it into UO I'd like to see it be like in the main Ultima games where Britannian magery doesn't work at all these because it's a different source of mana. So current people with magery skill can select a school of Pagan magery to specialize in but can't use all 5 schools.
Heh, well I am the Titan of Ether, so I will be able to use them all and I would pwn. *Nods*
For SI SOME of the code is there and TWO of the documents were released. I believe there would be even more in such a copy of the game that was completely cut for space reasons. The devs themselves said that Moonshade had raised magical walkways connecting the buildings until just before the release when it had to be cut to fit on floppies, and I myself made a large map detailing some areas that were removed incompletely in the mountains on Claw (just replaced em with blank black walls; i'd guess that the map for the area was 100% complete at least before the cut, even if the text wasn't). Stuff just like that.
As for Ascension, the maps are there yes, but they're highly unstable and don't render completely in the final's engine.. the E3 demo was shown to be running those maps properly with the correct buildings objects NPCs and interactions, so having that build would go a LONG way towards showing what the maps SHOULD look and act like. In fact, given the abilities of the Ascension hackers, it would probably be entirely possible to port those missing functions forward to the final and have them perfect there as well.
Not yet. We're in the U5ish era. Pagan is U8 ... that would place it about 7 years from now at the rate we seem to be doing the canon.
I don't know the lore of that era well, but the concept of facets we have now (which "Ultima Prime" didn't know about, did it?) seems to open the possibility of Pagan being perfectly happy as a facet, one more threatening to the status quo than any that have been discovered so far.
May I ask : what do ppl who have NO IDEA of the ultima lore do in all that ?
(i'm sure ppl like that exist -i can't be the only one , and what about NEW players ?)
*nods* It is very hard to learn lore about the world itself ingame.
I think we have more than enough places to explore in UO. The most they need to do with stygian abyss is add in maybe a new dungeon or 2 and perhaps a heartwood type area.
Play the games, or go read strategy guides that describe them in detail as there are several for each game out there. They can be a bit grueling at times since they ARE old RPGs after all, but with 5 forward things really start to fall into place with the story. Look past the old graphics and get immersed in the world.. same thing you've been doing forever with UO anyway, yes?
If we follow the "canon", the only person who gets access to Pagan would be the Avatar... And the only way out would be to nearly reduce the world to rubble.
But we have no Avatar, and so technically speaking we also have no Guardian to send us there.
Or, within the UO version of events, we're all taking the place of the avatar and should we reach the Guardian's era, he will be replicated to point of appearing to respawn each time he is defeated ;-)
The fun is in making things work, not making them fail
So every time we kill him... Every character on the shard also bites it?
I'm not saying it doesn't have to work. I'm just saying that if we try to stick too closely to the canon it won't. There's no good reason why a gateway to the land of Pagan (as the Guardian called it) couldn't be made at any point in UO's timeline. It's not the original Sosaria.
It doesn't need to be added as a "facet", either. It could be accessed in a similar manner to the Lost Lands.
Not that I'd want to see it added any time soon mind you. Not because I just don't like the idea, but rather because it'd take away resources from more pressing issues (eg fixing current bugs, and SA of course).
You right in fact I do not remember ever seeing the name of the land mentioned in the game. I only remember the intro and the guardian talking about how he was banishing the avatar to the "land of pagan".
I think that the ultima 8 maps should be used for a new expansion just not this expansion. The fact that much of ultima 8 was spent in dungeons could make for an interesting new map later on.
That isn't a feature unique to just those maps in Ascension.
I have them too. Great artwork too. But as the years went by, the art got worse and worse.
I think that in Ultima Online, while the game is getting more ultima, in UO, like they said, peraphs they should add in massive quest lines, and better NPC communication to learn about the Lore of Ultima.. Meaning, instead of putting more ultima in UO, put more lore in..
Well, one of the problems in doing it ingame is that UO is an alternate universe - the lore of the single-player games past the very first one didn't happen, or happened differently. However, this sounds like an interesting web content feature... let me explore some options.
Aye, right now I am too tired to try and make a point, but I guess what I am saying, is we should have the same quests that you do throughout the Ultima series, within UO, lots of storylines for players to follow... It would be fun..
No, but invisible buildings and game-crashing Gremlins are.
Plus, as it stands, we can't even get close to some of the areas.. instant crash regardless of entry angle.
Peraphs they should put an Avatar NPC in UO soon that we can talk to, I would perfer it if we got a new "King" Lord British and Blackthorn, I guess the devs can't use or talk about them cause Garriot has the rights of the name Lord British.. Uses the name Commander British in Tabula Rasa..
The Avatar doesn't exist in the UO timeline.
I had to patch U8 Pagan to get the jumping to work better (many didn't know about the patch). I also had to patch U9 Ascension to get it to work better.
More Geek tweaking.
But was worth it.
But..... if they fix the Virtue system, we can technically gain Avatarhood.
That's the purpose of the Virtues, to become an Avatar.
For anyone interested in Ultima 8, Pentagram is to that game what Exult is to Ultima 7. Worth looking into.
However, even the lore of the UO timeline(s) is very difficult to explore. I'm not a fan of exposition quests (as quests tend to not age well and I suspect most players ignore all the exposition and skip straight to the "how do I solve this" thinking). I do think that there should be more books, including an annual journal chronicling the major events/publishes of each year. Perhaps as a set of artifact-level rarity "history of the land: YYYY" volumes could drop in Wind?
I third that opinion.
For those of you who want to read the old Ultima manuals, there is this collection of Word files out there. No art - these aren't originals, but at least it has all the lore and information!
Hopefully, posting this link is okay. I'm not trying to break any rules!
Awesome game but i dont think that would meld very well with UO.
I'm sure you mean feel wise.. can't mean artwise since UO actually reuses quite a bit of stuff from 8.