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The new "update"...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mr Moosestache, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Why are the PvP "fixes" in this new update revolving around diminishing returns? I can only assume it was put it in to stop the use of certain combos ( as it says this in the details) like EO/para. Fix trap boxes, and make EO not work that way with paralyze. Issue over. Why are you putting more useless changes in when you could be addressing the ones that are currently rampant. You have the super power dragons/ dread mares, you have the faction point bugs, you have NUMEROUS other issues that could be addressed as opposed to causing more.
    It seems as though feedback regarding PvP fixes never seems to matter. Hopefully you don't ignore everything said here, or posted by the numerous people that will post after me with there own issues and agreeing with mine. HOPEFULLY, you will not just put this patch in, have two months go by, then post, "Our last patch caused some unwanted issues, we will be fixing these in 2028!"

    It really does seem as though this happens EVERYTIME there is a PvP fix. The faction aids, stand out in my mind the most, seeing as how I posted about them being overpowered far before the patch came out of testing. As I was told they were just as useful for mages as they were for dexxers(4 second aids vs. 12-14 second aids....?) , and the numerous people posting in support of my post were ignored.


    Side note: Aside from the few parry mages around, there aren't many mages with 85 dex.
     
  2. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    pots are overpowered. they should require GM alchemy and 50 EP to even work at all.

    if you can't PvP without medic script you shouldn't be PvP'ing in the first place.

    taming should probably be removed from PvP. but i will settle for 120 vet requirement to heal the most powerful monsters (no greater heal) and log out/log in fix

    also 120 taming 120 vet 120 lore required to use pet ball and it should take 10-20 charges of powder to summon the most powerful monsters such at greater dragon. or possibly pet ball should be one use only and break every time it is used.

    also stealthing should take up 5 follower slots.

    stat loss for pet should be at least 10 percent in PvP. you take the greater risk you lose more.
     
  3. There is another problem with the UO population nowadays, blame everything on scripts/hacks. When did I ever say ANYTHING about a medic script? I highly disagree with PvP scripts, that and the scripts people use to "help PvP" can be easily beaten if you know what you are doing as well. Nothing funnier then watching someone with a trap box script kill themselves. Pots have been around for a long time. Maybe you came around in AoS? If pots didn't exist, besides DP/LP being highly overpowered again, then I don't see a problem myself. Seeing as though they've been around and used in PvP, forever, then I don't see that happening. I find EP to be ridiculous at times but it adds some challenge to the game. It's easily counterable as well. I really don't see your point here.

    Taming has also been around forever, it's also been used in PvP since before AoS as well. Point being, these new SUPER pets are a major detriment to the PvP scene. Rune beetle/mare combos were deadly enough. Now we have both combined into ONE animal. Your 120 vet requirement to heal it would do NOTHING to the PvP scene, as most PvP tamers, DO NOT HAVE VET ON THE TEMPLATE. Maybe 120 vet required to control it?
     
  4. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    The moment you say anything requires 120 to do anything, then you must put power scrolls in Tram.
     
  5. Are there a lot PvM based tamers without vet as well then?
     
  6. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I don't care if a Trammel tamer's pet even takes damage. it makes no difference to me. they can control the pet with 0 / 0 / 0 for all I care.

    playing in Trammel is playing UO with the easy switch on
     
  7. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    id like to know how mages from a certain zerg guild can cast spells like flame strike while running ?.
    and also how can some players be hit by 4+ flame strikes and not take any damage.
     
  8. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    i dunno you must be playing freeshard?
     
  9. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    you should be a comedian
     
  10. DuttyD

    DuttyD Guest

    drinkbeerallday-
    "also 120 taming 120 vet 120 lore required to use pet ball and it should take 10-20 charges of powder to summon the most powerful monsters such at greater dragon. or possibly pet ball should be one use only and break every time it is used."


    10-20 charges to summon a pet?? wtf? It holds 20... They are not easy to get so I wouldn't recommend having them break every time. Unless your talking in just felluca... But that would seem like a lot of code and man hours when all you would have to do would be give super drags and dreads a stat loss when attacking players.
     
  11. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    okay not 10, 20 then. thanks for the info. and I agree on stat loss maybe 25 percent. i'll settle for 10 percent.
     
  12. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    I don't know about the not taking damage part but I'd love to know how other people are casting spells while running at full speed too.
     
  13. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    you can't cast spells while running at full speed
     
  14. Raider Red

    Raider Red Seasoned Veteran
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    not sure about the casting part,but the not taking damage from flamestrikes could be because the player hit with the flamestrikes could be a samurai type character with evasion toggled.I have bushdio sowrdsman withn115 bushido and 120 parry and I can "evade" magic spells when evasion is toggled.Now 120 bushdio/parry gives you a higher chance to evade spells so I suppose the 4 flamestrike evasion was a good run with the RNG :) .


    Plus the evasion thing can work at lower levels of bushido/parry combo against even a 120 mage.A while back when I was training my smaurai my Guildmaster came over on his 120 mage and we tried the evasion trick and I actually was able to "absorb" 2 of his flamestrikes before he finally killed me,and I was only at gm bushido/parry and he was 120 mage/eval.
     
  15. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Actually they are...I steal them all the time. The great thing is they usually spawn in tamer packs. :) ...la
     
  16. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    they should make speedhacks give diminishing returns, the more you use them the slower you go until you can't even move
     
  17. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    The new potion updates seem to be fine.
    If pots are your only way of healing, then it's time you re-think your template.
     
  18. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    you can ive seen it too many times, maybe you just haven't came across anyone thats doing it.
     
  19. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I've seen many "leet" PvPers do it. Full-capped fc/fcr and mini-heals. Yeah, they stop moving for like half a sec. but that's good enough to be able to get away and heal at the same time.
     
  20. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    ive never seen that and i pvp all the time
     
  21. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    chiv maybe? dunno if thats what he means or not
     
  22. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    flamestrike is a 7th circle magery spell. has nothing to do with chiv.
     
  23. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    lol are you serious?

    someone got pwnt one too many times by the tamer!
     
  24. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    I have never seen the Ural Mountains. I guess they don't exist, then.
     
  25. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Maybe the new balance changes for heal potions is good...

    but if many things come under this new balance system, it may become negative and many flaws occur... which end up stupidity...

    I do agree that to fully use of 50 ep, one must have 100 alchemy.

    Then, for pets in pvp scene, several things needed to adjust:-

    1. pets cannot listen to owners command if it is out of line of sight (say a wall blocked etc...)

    2. pets cannot listen to owners command if it is 15 steps away from owner

    3. all pet's single hit damage on pvp should be capped at 35 or 40

    4. Armor ignore should be able to do over 35 on player's pet.

    Currently, pets are just hitting too hard and too many hps with very hard time of killing it. I have a heavy crossbow, 100 di, 150 str, 120 tactics, 120 anatomy, reptile slayer, with consecrate weapon, i am hitting a super dragon ONLY 100 to 120hps per hit.

    A super dragon is usually 900+ hps... Now not counting the misses and the attack that he gives you that forces you to run away, it is time consuming and taking super long time to kill a super dragon..

    Imagine, a team with 10 people fighting a team with 5 people.

    The team with 10 people carry 3 dragons vs the 5 people..

    Normally, our side 5 people could fight off 10 people if they do not have dragons. But usually with dragons on their side, they will easily destroy us.

    So unless UO wanted to give everyone a message that, the GOD OF PVP is NUMBERS. Then I will have nothing else to say.
     
  26. Bombastic Fail

    Bombastic Fail Certifiable
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    I dont know about anyone else; but tamers arent really a problem for me on my mage, or my archer. Being DISMOUNTED then having a dragon on you; that sucks. Maybe make it if you have 5 control slots use; you cant dismount? I think that would make super dragons fairly useless, considering most of the tamers just bola/dismount special and stand still. It would take 2 people working together (one NOT being a 5 control slot tamer), in order to have you on foot with the dragon on you.

    Is anyone else really having problems with the dragons themselves on mounts? Or is it like me and the dismount/dragon thing? :)
     
  27. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Yeah, I think people are neglecting to mention the dismount here. The real problem I see with pets used during pvp is that they are not subject to the same rules as pvp mages, i.e. pets can cast while moving and use specials seemingly at the same time. And for the posters above who say that mages cast on the run, its called "pre-casting"... I hit my macro before chasing you down.

    Back to the OP topic... if the devs would take time to have actual pvpers (and I don't mean ppl that have been pvping for a few months, I'm talking about ppl with yrs of experience) test their pvp changes/updates, they might actually know what works. Instead they rely on feedback from less knowledgeable sources.
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You know one of the biggest problems with PvP fixes is..... most folk whine and complain about any and every template that they can't beat... Or that regularly beats them even if it isn't the "beat all" template....

    You can't win them all.....

    What needs fixing and balancing is.... Unlimited mana pools, scripting, hacking, and 10 year olds playing smack talking and being unsupervised online....

    Would really like to go back to M for mature..... not that that kept the immature from playing.... but certainly made parents think twice about letting the 12 year old play...

    There are many, many, many different possibilities for templates out there now... back many years ago you were either a mage, a dexer, a macer, or an archer.... Or ..... you were swords and used a mighty axe.... tapping into your lumberjacking skill to give added bonus... so when folk built their templates to "defend" or attack they did so against only a handful of different template types.... the trouble today is for each of those "oldschool" templates there are probably as many as 15 or 16 different combination possible now and to build "THE" perfect template to defend against all of those is well...... NOT possible.... Some what like physics for each action there is an equal and opposite "reaction".... So now for each "uber" template out there there is most certainly a template designed just to destroy that type of template..... I'm afraid almost every template has a "weakness" as well as a strength.....

    Chew on that.
     
  29. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Define "a problem".

    If you mean you simply avoid them then that seems like a problem.

    Somehow I doubt that you mean you 1 vs 1 a tamer and their GD and kill them both all the time.
     
  30. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Only if those so called experienced pvpers are monitored to make sure no 3rd party programs are being used.

    Good luck finding a group of 100% honest players in UO's PvP scene.
     
  31. Bombastic Fail

    Bombastic Fail Certifiable
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    Yes; as I said. I can kill a tamer 1v1 with a greater dragon with ease. Its the dismount that gets you killed by the dragon. Most of these tamers are in fairly terrible suits; there stuck on foot; have at best a weapon skill, but they all have a weakness. Rather it be they have no resist (Hiii! Parabait, run the drag off, boom dead) Or have terrible suits, etc. etc.

    Like I said, without a dismount, a person should be able to kill another person, even with a greater dragon in tow about 80% of the time. If you pvp on a regular basis and have a good suit yourself, that is. If you dont think its possible; get one of these g. dragon tamers on chessy to agree to not dismount me, and ill teach you how. Really, I'm not being a smart @$$ either. I think dismount is fine, I think tamers are fine. I just dont like the whole "Im on foot 24/7 so I can dismount with a greater dragon in tow". But thats just my opinion. Besides that; there quite easy =]
     
  32. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    And what about the tamers that aren't in terrible suits? What about the ones with 70 DCI, 50 EP, and 150 hit points? Add some chiv casting in there, and there is no way you're taking that character down by yourself with a dragon shooting 60 damage fireball at you.

    Umm. Mini heal has a 0.5 second cast time. Thus it stops you for, you guessed it, half a second.
     
  33. Astryl

    Astryl Guest

    That one of the oldest forms of pvp.... even pre-tram.
     
  34. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Why is it that any time someone talks about pvp, someone else needs to bring up 3rd party programs? We're discussing changes to the game that will affect everyone and I am saying that these changes should be tested by people with experience who know the ins and outs of pvp, not the people that whine and complain and want everything dumbed down to their level. I don't see how running a 3rd party program has anything to do with testing changes... if anything the people that rely on "medic" scripts are going to be at a severe disadvantage when this pot change goes through because their script is going to have to work overtime to keep them healed and cured. Anyone worth their salt has macros set and doesn't rely on these scripts anyway.
     
  35. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I dunno.....why would it matter if one person was cheating while the other person was not?

    Hmm I wonder why that might matter................

    :twak:
     
  36. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    You seem to be really bitter toward all pvpers. To show you I WILL DUEL YOU WITHOUT UOA even. I WILL RECORD MY WHOLE DESKTOP AND COMPUTER. NOTHING WILL BE OPEN EXCEPT THE UO CLIENT. Pm me or icq me at 76838269 if you want to see what a little practice means in pvp. Or ignore me if you want to keep thinking that whoever wins is running the best script.
     
  37. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    drinkbeer you need a nerf yourself.

    Remove tamers from PvP completely...then wtf is going to happen with Champ Spawns? Most tamers use pets as a tank to kill champs.

    Quit pissing and moaning about YEW GATE BULLSCHWANK.

    Out in the open, T2A, Despise etc... it's a whole nother ball game. Unless, that is of course, all you do is sit at the gate all day, telling people they're GZ neebs?

    Requiring alchy and EP just to be able to use pots... wow... talk about weetodded. And that wouldn't create another gimp template? How hard would it be to run around with a GM/alchy 50EP archer? I've done it before...explo pots doing 25+ damage, oh wait, let me add necro to the template and corpse skin the person, then chase them down using moving shot, while at the same time throwing explo pots at them!!! Wow... good idea.

    Colter, I agree with Bombastic. It's not hard to take down a tamer on various templates. Especially on my bushi/swords chr.

    This patch doesn't bother me as I only use pots as a 'omgoose i'm getting attacked by 4 people' aid.

    But I agree with Moose, there are other things that need tended too before something like this.

    Priorities... something that Devs need to look up in the dictionary.
     
  38. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    I was talking about people testing potential changes. Sheesh dude. Like I said, the people that are cheating are usually not the ones with the skills anyway, so they shouldn't be testing any changes in the first place.
     
  39. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The problem with his response and your is that I required him to kill not only the tamer, but also the GD.
     
  40. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    So was I.
     
  41. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    Now doesn't this indicate something else entirely? The effective way to kill a tamer is to use a character that can absorb enough damage where it would kill any other template without evasion? This still points to the fact that greater dragons just do waay too much damage too quickly in PvP.
     
  42. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Please... until I see the same crap on mage spells they can leave pots alone!!!

    why can a mage spam mini heal 25 times in a row with no problem but now I can't drink 2 GH pots ???

    Does this make sense??? I have no clue how and why they need to introduce this crap!!

    DEVS!! ***NEWS FLASH *** IF YOU HAVE SO MUCH TIME FIX GATES!!!

    Old story... one person to make it and one person to make it hard.

    Leave UO alone, we are all paying for it, hence we like it!!!
     
  43. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Azmira, I was just stating i've used that template to kill tamers recently... before I used a fencer, 3 AI's in a row kills most tamers. And I was able to get those off simultaneously before the GD did enough damage I had to run. It's all a matter of how you play against the tamer. It's not too hard to seperate a tamer from their pet, unless they're really good at the template or the person fighting against really sucks or has a bad connection.

    Colter, you're night required to kill the GD as well. Once the tamer is dead all you gotta do is get away from the GD so it stops agro.
     
  44. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    hmm maybe you should be removed from the game...
     
  45. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I'm guessing you meant to say you're NOT required to kill the GD.

    While this is true, it was part of my original question as to whether he was killing both the tamer and GD. Which is why I called BS that he was killing both the tamer and the GD on a regular ol mage char.


    PvP history shows that anything that can take a player from full health to death in less than 2 seconds will be nerfed. (AI, WoD, Perfection)

    The GD certainly fits this criteria.
     
  46. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I meant to say NOT... you're right...

    So anything that's able to take you to from full health to almost death should be taken out of the game? My maul can just about kill someone in 2 swipes... a lot of heavier weapons w/decent swing speed can do the same. What about a necro/mage? Sure it takes time to cast explode/FS/EO...but when it happens it's almost simultaneous...since explosion can be precasted.

    Next thing we know people will cry about frenzied ostard tamers =/

    Most people dont worry about killing a GD unless the tamer is dead, and they have a group of friends with them.
     
  47. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    No weapon in this game will kill you in 2 seconds or less.... sorry not possible with the current swing speed cap.


    You admit it will take time to cast that combo...longer than 2 seconds I bet. Also even if you're corpsed and have the explosion/FS/EO combo cast at you.....you probably won't die unless you have less than 100 hps.
     
  48. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Nah you wouldn't die unless you had less than 100 hps, but how long does it take to follow that up with an EO/Pain Spike?

    A GD could take just as long as a necro/mage to get that combo off and kill someone. Just a matter of the RNG.
     
  49. I'd like them to make sure that the diminishing returns doesn't effect regular bandage heals before this ever goes live, or almost every warrior will be rendered useless. >_<
     
  50. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    From what i read bandages will not be affected as they are directly atributed to skills and therefore have there own set of "rules".