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The population of UO has changed

Discussion in 'UHall' started by TheScoundrelRico, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    All I can say is WOW!

    Ok, so it's only been a few days back to UO (after 6 years) and spending time reading the forums here (yes I know there are more players than those represented here), but I have to say...the population of Ultima Online is really different...and I blame the developers.

    UO used to be a MMORPG...now, not so much.

    The game used to be highly interactive and the population was.

    No matter if you spent your time hanging out at the Brit bank showing off your latest "high fashion", or we're an active Role Player or even someone who spent their time in game PvPing. Ultima Online was a game you got the most out of if you dealt with the public at large.

    What has it become? A game who wants to be more like WoW, than UO. Questing for the next big prize seems to be the most common discussion point (outside of the recent changes at Stratics). People don't populate the public areas in game like they used to (yes, I understand the population is ever decreasing). PvP is not like it ever was and this seems to be based on years of script cheating and modifications to the ruleset.

    It seems year after year, most of the additions the game has seen has made it easier to become less interactive. Sure, there's a new chat feature...all that has become is an in game forum to use while players sit in their houses or doing other things that doesn't require them to interact with other players in-game.

    Not sure there is a fix for this or if they think there is a problem with what they've done to begin with.

    Anywho, I don't look at this as a rant, but the start of a discussion.

    How could the developers modify the game to make it more interactive than what it has become?...la
     
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  2. HugsNKissesUO

    HugsNKissesUO Visitor

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    I think a blind person who actively played the game could've told you the same thing.
     
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  3. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Thank you for sharing *rolls eyes* ...la
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Only Siege and Mugen still offer the "old" Ultima Online feeling of partnership thanking to the 1 character only limitation.

    Even though several players on those shards have more than 1 account to increase their self sufficiency, it still is necessary on those shards to rely on others for needs be them crafting, hunting, treasure hunting and so forth.

    Unfortunately, because of Soulstones, Alacrity and Trascendency scrolls, also on those shards it has become way much easier to work skills and "stone" them away and this, has reduced the need to resort to others for one's own needs.

    Yes, I agree, this over the years has been a decision of the various Development teams who, adding an item here, a game change there, have basically made it easier for players to be "self sufficient" and thus not require the help from others.

    Is it something that could be rectified ?

    Well, as I see it, yes, but it would require the addition of new skills which are not "soulstonable", for which do not exist Alacrity nor Trascendency scrolls and would be not easy to work up thus making it so that not all players would want to train them and would prefer to team up with other players who have those skills....

    I mean, we first need to recognize that the "self sufficiency" in UO where a player can do it all with 1 account on a given shard is bad for the game, and then, after we admit that, solutions can indeed be found to rectify this and force players to "team up" again....

    Years ago I suggested on Stratics' Forums changes to UO where, on a given shard, all characters of an accould (ve them 5, 6 or 7) could only excel in either fighting skills OR crafting skills, not both. Like, set a limit to a max of 65-70% of the highest fighting or crafting skills levels achievable, and make it so that if on a given shard, say Atlantic, I want to have legendary fighters, then my crafting skills on that shard could at most reach 65 or 70% of the highest levels possible (for example 65/70 top skill for fletching or about 80 for blacksmithying and the likes)-

    Of course, on a different shard I could reverse that and maximize my crafting skills at the expense of my fighting abilities on that other shard, say Pacific.....

    This way, players would still be free to experience at the highest level possible in UO all skills and types of game plays only, they could do them on different shards, not all on the same one shard....

    This, would then make it necessary for players to again have to look out for other fellow players to "fill in the gaps" and get from others what they can no longer get on their own on a given shard, because of the lost self sufficiency....

    Though, some restrictions should be also introduced to the transferring from one shard to another both of skills and items to avoid a player who is a crafter on pacific, make items there and then transfer them to Atlantic where they have the fighting account....

    Limitations are always annoying, no doubt about that, but do we want players in UO to team up or not ?

    If we want it, I see no other way then to introduce limitations to what any given player can do on a given shard on his or her own with just 1 account.........
     
    #4 popps, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Have you been to check in on some of the more populated shards? Atlantic, Asuka etc?
     
  6. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The problem I see is the population has grown fond of many of those items and would rage-quit if they were taken away or made irrelevant. It's funny that you mention Siege, because I am having a different conversation (which sparked this thread).

    Siege has been besieged with items that have made it much easier than it should be. Sure there have always been players with multiple accounts, but the addition of soul stones has made it easier to only have one. Communication is the same...people stay in their houses or hidden away. Sure I'm a bit bitter as a thief (since you actually need to be interactive to steal items from other players) but it would almost be impossible to be a new player here if you actually wanted to play in a group.

    The only groups I have seen are those involved in VvV and looking for a fight...la
     
  7. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I did log into Atlantic and LS (to check on what was in those bank boxes). Sure there were some folks in Luna, but not like it was...la
     
  8. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I play ls usually evening though! I also recently started siege most of them are stealthing lol
     
  9. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    None of my characters have normal templates. naked arcanist thief, naked tinker bard, naked ninja fencer wearing only blessed clothes. Every time I come back to UO more and more people avoid hanging with me, despite the fact I regularly display my awesomeness. Killing the old bane guards with a mechanical golem and vollem. Killing players with the naked ninja. Reaching glorious lord on the thief. Yet because I do not have the super refined power house sampires or disco tamers or whatever, I find myself more and more hunting alone on each return.That's what keeps putting me back out of UO. So yes, I agree, the mind set has changed. Everyone's to focused on being the most efficient well equipped killing machines as possible, and odd templates can jog on.
     
  10. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Yeah, no that's horrible.
     
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  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Perhaps, at least for Siege and Mugen what could be done is have Soulstones removed from those shards and made it impossible to have them there. This could be done with the help of Game Masters who erased them on those shards and recreated them onto a production shard chosen by the player.......

    Again, as I see it, we need to decide what matters more, whether to make life easier to players and be self sufficient, even on Siege and Mugen, OR, at least on Siege and Mugen, make it so that players have to accept not being able to cover all aspects of UO with 1 or 2 accounts and have to resort to other players for at least some gaming needs .....
     
  12. obeeee

    obeeee Journeyman
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    @Storm I have to ask, did you start in Minoc about 2001?
     
  13. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    What matters more is not making the game less of a sandbox than it already is. WHY is it such a problem if people want to play their way and not rely on others?
     
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  14. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I guess that's it. The population has out grown the things that used to make the game so much fun. Interaction with other players to go out and raise skills or to collect gold to purchase a house as opposed to now where everyone wants to train skills that require high end spawn to get there or hunt items that have to be gather through questing.

    It used to be you could always find people on the high seas trying to gain skills via the old 8x8 method or at a bank working skills. Now you don't have to be in town to do anything, let alone interact with the rest of the population...la
     
  15. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Unfortunately it has been like that for about 3-4 years Rico, and it gets worse every year. People have stuck themselves into little corners of the game, refusing to interact with anyone other than a few friends. EM events, gold and rares make the world go round in UO these days sadly.
     
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  16. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I guess it defeats the purpose of playing a MMO...then again I don't see UO as a MMO anymore, it's more of an O...la
     
  17. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    So don't interact with the players who don't want to interact with you and worry about your own fun?
     
  18. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    So to circle back around to the main point of the thread...is there anything the devs could do to change this without having half of the population rage quit?...la
     
  19. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    That will only stop the ones who only can afford one account from playing Siege, Just give us a char slot more and we will use less soulstones and more will play.

    Do you play Siege? I don't think so
    It's much more no item insurance, Fel ruleset on all facets and Vendor don't buy your wares that make Sieges economy more healthy and not to forget, no duping from shard transfer
     
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  20. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    This is a sad thing. You can read my overlooked sig for thoughts on the grind that UO has become.
     
  21. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    As a thief who steals from other players, it kinda takes others to be involved in my own fun...la
     
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  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Perhaps because Ultima Online is, supposedly, a "multiplayer" game ?

    Having an X number of players all playing and hunting and crafting on their own, without any need to have to rely on others, equals pretty much a "solo" game, rather then a multiplayer one.....

    Clearly, we cannot have both, either we have a game where all players are self sufficient and have no need to rely on other fellow players, or we have an UO that is changed into a game where, at least on a given shard, players can no longer be self sufficient but have to rely also on others for their needs....

    Which Ultima Online do we want ?

    A multiuplayer game where players have to interact with each other or a solo game where we have all players hunting, crafting and doing all game tasks on their own, without ever needing to ask anyone for anything ?

    First we need to answer this, once and for all, and then the game could be changed accordingly, if needed.
     
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  23. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    While Siege's economy may not be at the point of the production shards...I would be careful to define it as healthy...la
     
  24. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    You had only been back short time Rico, you need a little time to get use to the changes. You may have a different view in a month.
     
  25. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Not being daft at all, but couldn't you and like-minded players just start interacting and hanging out?
     
  26. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I honestly don't know that more time will do anything more than open my eyes to the changes that I've missed...la
     
  27. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    As a thief, it's really tough to interact or hang out while working. I was just sharing what I have seen since my return.

    With that said, if I do stick around...I may change my spots and stop thieving. Not just because there aren't many people to steal from, but it might be fun to jump to the other side and play more of a detective that hunts thieves...la
     
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  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    If, even on Siege, one can be a fighter, a crafter, a treasure hunter, a bard etc etc, why would he or she need to interact, even on Siege, with other players for a treasure hunt, to craft gear and weapons and so forth ?
    Maybe, on Siege, because of the felucca ruleset, one still needs buddies as protection against getting killed while hunting, but that does not help the crafting.....

    I would imagine that those who play Siege or Mugen do it because game play there is different to that of production shards.
    If one can reproduce on Siege the same gameplay of production shards, including the self sufficiency, the difference of playing Siege as compared to production shards is greatly reduced....

    I have been slowly working up crafting skills there, but lack of playing time has worked against being able to spend the time I would like. Nonetheless, personally I would hope that among the differences that Siege has as compared to production shards, besides those you mentioned, is also the fact that on Siege players tend, for one reason or another, to rely on fellow players more then on production shards....

    It is not so ? Siege is yet another shard where players do it all on their own, like on production shards ?
     
  29. Lore Denin (GL)

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    The slippery slope started with repair deeds..... not a bad thing but it began the change away from interacting with people to interacting with vendors and doing it yourself.

    I would love if they designated a shard to be one character, 1 soulstone per account limit without all the restrictions of playing on Siege.

    -Lore's Player
     
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  30. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I just hate, when players who not really play Siege or just came back after several years try to changes Siege.
     
  31. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    The problem is , some changes in the past 3 years or so did make certain templates way to powerful, recent loot change does make it even worse. There is simply much less need for group hunting since the amount of encounters where you actually need more than one person for, is very small. Usually its just needed to have the right template and somewhat good gear. Pvm in uo isnt really very difficult compared to other games because of the outdated game mechanics.
    The only thing you often see in big group hunts is a bunch of greater dragons and rising colossus, not even the boss. 3 minutes later the first question is who got a drop. Personally i dont enjoy that and rather hunt solo. Doesnt help either that certain things that are called bosses can be mowed down solo in under 10 minutes without danger or difficulty.
    Since imbuing came out, there have been basically 3 new item spirals, shame loot, reforging and now new boss loot. But pvm did not change much.
    That new boss loot does actually have a chance to kill crafting for high end suits , its just a matter of time.
    There is also a bunch of people like myself, that just play mmo's and rpg to escape RL and other people.
    If you want good group play, UO isnt really the place to look for it.

    As for siege, game mechanics wise is just easiest to run hiding/stealth/smokebombs. People dont realize how much it hurts the shard actually, but siege got other problems i do not want to talk about at all, but you just start to notice them when you play there for a while.
     
  32. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    It's close. It doesn't seem like enough of the crafters have vendors that provide the basics (maybe because it costs a lot to keep them active). I tried to find a few standard bows using the vendor search...not much out there. I was just happy someone had a few non-pvp worthy bows they were selling on discount.

    Right there is another thing that has made the game "easier" to play alone without interacting...being able to search via gump makes life in UO a bit different. It used to be that you would at least have to find a forum to ask around where to find stuff...now you don't even have to deal with general chat...type in your search and plot a map.

    No more wandering around the land looking to find some lost treasure trove of goodies at a vendor you never noticed before...la
     
  33. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I started playing on pacific and then my guild moved to ls and so i started new characters there about 2001 yes! and I was between minoc and vesper yes
    I played with kayle mig, silverdrake and a few other and I still have the guild roster on one of my characters
     
  34. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    It won't matter in either way in this regard. It is the sandbox nature of the game that allows combining skills that result in self sufficient accounts. And there is nothing wrong with that mind you but, for people whose fascination with UO is largely tied into the old Origin motto "We Create Worlds" the now lack of a robust society occupying that world means a great deal.
     
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  35. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Then you are the problem. You have adapted to the changes and accepted them and to a point, you are now making up excuses as to why they are good. Sorry to say, but maybe it's the people who have stepped away that can see the differences and know the history.

    Folks that have toughed it out...welp...maybe you've dropped your defenses...la
     
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  36. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    One part of a fix: stop NPCs selling raw materials. Make folks have to go actually collect them. We'll eventually burn through stockpiles...
     
  37. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    On a nightly basis, we have 10+ people on in the RRG$ teamspeak room, either hunting, crafting, shooting the breeze, or all of the above. Saying people don't interact anymore is just hogwash. Maybe they don't interact "in-game" the way they used to, in part because of the better availability of 3rd party chat applications where people can now "stay in their own corners and only interact with their friends", but that's how people want to play the game. Maybe Rico could play more than just a few days before casting your net across the entire game.

    By the looks of it, this already appears to have the stench of a "let's make suggestions about how we can turn the game back 10 years" conversation and complain about what UO has become. This game simply won't ever be able to make everyone happy.
     
  38. TheScoundrelRico

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    Good call...la
     
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  39. Rieley

    Rieley Journeyman
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    Eating. Hunger makes the health bar go down. All these NPC shops in town serve food and drinks. Some NPC's can sell special meals/drinks that freeze the hunger bar for an hour.

    Increase the skill speed/rate when skilling in a town, using town equipment. Also, increase the skill total but not the skill lock. Example, you are capped with skill points. Be able to have more skill points than locks, however these skills decay, so one must continue to skill in town to keep at a max skill point.

    Allow vendors in towns, would work like the bazaar. You wouldn't be able to change the looks or style of the vendor, this would keep it in harmony with the town.

    Add decay to (almost) everything, housing furniture, weapons, armor. Not everything, no vet rewards, things such as that.

    Just a few ideas.
     
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  40. Rieley

    Rieley Journeyman
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    The vendors not buying one's wares is a plus.
     
  41. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Vendor fee are a problem as it eat up much of your profit. Sometimes I stock my vendor and it take weeks to sell the stuff, that's not good.
    What kind of bow and what mods are you looking for? I can make you one. I rarely stock weapon because of the one Siege Bless, people never need a new weapon
    Vendor Search do help traveling and do help vendor owners far away from town and moongates. You still have to run to the vendor to buy your items. My Castle vendors did sell a lot more after we got Vendor Search

    Most will just ask in Gen chat for the item they need. When Vendor Search brings you to a vendor house, you never noticed before, you will take a loot at the other vendors.
    The world did changes but it do not need to be a bad thing.
     
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  42. TheScoundrelRico

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    Awesome!!! 10 whole people chatting it up on teamspeak. Now that's interaction. Hell, you can do that anywhere...it's called a phone. Interacting in-game is just that...interacting in-game.

    As far as my awful net casting...all I am doing is explaining what I have seen...la
     
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  43. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The Siege bless has been something I have hated since it was introduced. There's a reason we play Siege...and for many of us, it was a way to get away from insurance. Changes like that have changed the game, imo, for the worst...la
     
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  44. FrejaSP

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    I have to agree, Siege Bless is not good but it may make it a little easier for new Siege players, who fear dying and losing everything. I would not mind to see it go, it would give some business to smiths, fletchers and carpenters.
     
  45. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Campaign Patron UWF

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    'Oh hey, I've been back for a FEW DAYS and haven't enjoyed the same interaction that was available when I last played a half dozen years ago. My old thief template that I last played during the Bush administration doesn't work anymore and I can't find anyone to steal from. Waaaaa! THIS GAME IS DEAD TO ME.'

    'Oh and further more, because I've been away from the game long enough, I can see the changes better than you rubes who've stuck with the game can see them.'

    Just explaining what I see too. Another old bitter vet who comes back and acts shocked the game has changed.
     
  46. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Then they have no business on Siege. Afraid of death? LOL, I remember the days when you couldn't travel from Brit to the Brit gate without being chased by a group of angry reds. Now there's a gate right inside town.

    They even changed the rules in which anyone can have a house on Siege. It used to be that you actually had to play on the shard on a regular basis or it made no sense to drop a house down. Why they did that, I'll never understand.

    Heck, people can't even complain that their banks don't hold enough...they made it so you're bank storage is higher than 125 items...la
     
  47. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Not quite sure when I implied that the game is dead to me. Just sharing my observations. Then again, you've been here since all the way back in August...you are AWESOME!!!...la
     
  48. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Right now, the houses are not a problem, if that changes, I believe Devs will add some kind of refresh for a second house.
     
  49. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Imagine how many players we could have if something were done for the "bitter old vets"
     
    Anasmin likes this.
  50. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Easy for you to say with multiple houses in great locations :). People who don't play Siege should not have plots on Siege...just my opinion. If you refuse to play Siege without being able to keep your home on another shard, so be it. Play your production server and stay away from Siege...la
     
    Donal Mor and GarthGrey like this.