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The Power of Wither - screenshot for anyone who had doubts

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_revenant2, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. There's some debate as to how powerful Wither is as compared with other spells. A buddy of mine grabbed this screenshot as he worked a rat spawn in Despise with his necro.

    When you look at this, it's clear why it's literally insta-death when you get 4 necros standing together at a drop-in or a choke point, and a player walks into it. There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    I hope that sometime, either chivalry can do this, or... something. It's one factor behind why the necro-mage is so desired for both spawn defense and working the spawn itself.

    The fact that Holy Light can be done while moving doesn't begin to balance it (heh).

    Click the image to see the full sized screenshot.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    ratman cold resist minimum 10 average 15 maximum 20 ........... nice try
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    people love to miss points. the main point here is the range of the spell. and that this is one necro. large guild will prolly have like 20 people with necro. god knows soem rp giulds have over 50 just cause they RP evil. Its a problem. cool spell, but the distance and compounding is something to atleast take into consideration
     
  4. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    its obviouse by the stack numbers that the guy was chain withering.
    so what your looking at ISNT one wither, but probabbly the third in the chain.

    so minus off 2/3 of those numbers and youll get a more accurate picture of whats going on.

    and for the fella that said "get 4 of them at a chose point and you own"

    get 4 of any template at a choke point and your in for a fight.
    4 guys casting fields.
    4 guys casting EQ.
    4 archers casting AI with composites.
    4 tamers saying all kill with *insert pet of choice*

    i dont care who you are, 4 of anything in a choke point is gonna get ya.

    why do we all have to hate?

    why cant we all just get along?
    but seriouslly.... 4 beggers in a choke point probablly wont do too much to ya now that i think about it.
    for that matter 4 people with taste ID probabbly wont kill ya too fast either.
     
  5. <blockquote><hr>

    ratman cold resist minimum 10 average 15 maximum 20 ........... nice try

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And this has bearing on the topic in which way?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I can agree with ya. but in my experiance a choke point isnt nessecary for wither hell. but i must say im bias on this one. i just hate spamming. spamming should not be a style. Just a weir way I feel. I like it better when people actually fought you with style in steade of In Nox Vas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas FlamVas Flam In Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por YlemIn Por Ylem LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!

    This isnt really my place to talk. see you guys in game. and good luck!
     
  7. <blockquote><hr>

    its obviouse by the stack numbers that the guy was chain withering.
    so what your looking at ISNT one wither, but probabbly the third in the chain.

    so minus off 2/3 of those numbers and youll get a more accurate picture of whats going on.

    and for the fella that said "get 4 of them at a chose point and you own"

    get 4 of any template at a choke point and your in for a fight.
    4 guys casting fields.
    4 guys casting EQ.
    4 archers casting AI with composites.
    4 tamers saying all kill with *insert pet of choice*

    i dont care who you are, 4 of anything in a choke point is gonna get ya.

    why do we all have to hate?

    why cant we all just get along?
    but seriouslly.... 4 beggers in a choke point probablly wont do too much to ya now that i think about it.
    for that matter 4 people with taste ID probabbly wont kill ya too fast either.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Try withering twice and see if the numbers from the first wither are still on the screen when the second hits [​IMG]
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Did JC's thread get locked or something?
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    now post a screenshot of the power of hit area + momentum strike.

    thx.
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    its obviouse by the stack numbers that the guy was chain withering.
    so what your looking at ISNT one wither, but probabbly the third in the chain.

    so minus off 2/3 of those numbers and youll get a more accurate picture of whats going on.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There is no more accurate picture than a screenshot showing the damage amounts that struck all of the valid targets. If it was related to "chain wither", that's interesting, but it doesn't somehow invalidate what we're seeing as though it didn't really happen. I wonder if "chain earthquake" or "chain meteor swarm" exists and if so, how well it works?

    <blockquote><hr>

    and for the fella that said "get 4 of them at a chose point and you own"

    get 4 of any template at a choke point and your in for a fight.
    4 guys casting fields.
    4 guys casting EQ.
    4 archers casting AI with composites.
    4 tamers saying all kill with *insert pet of choice*

    i dont care who you are, 4 of anything in a choke point is gonna get ya.

    why do we all have to hate?

    why cant we all just get along?
    but seriouslly.... 4 beggers in a choke point probablly wont do too much to ya now that i think about it.
    for that matter 4 people with taste ID probabbly wont kill ya too fast either.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A pack of 4 archers or 4 tamers simply does not do what 4 necros in wraith form will do at a choke point.

    4 archers get the joy of having to grab a bar and attack it, and they can only attack one person at a time unless they use the mana-expensive Lightning Arrow special, which hits fewer targets, I think 5 max or something like that. And then, 50% of the archers' shots will miss. Wither never misses any of the valid targets once it's cast.

    4 tamers get the joy of grabbing the bar and then doing 'all kill' and targeting the bar. If they are melee pets, 50% or more of the pets' swings will miss if they can even reach the target, and magery pets' spells can be quite varied, like a fireball, or an ebolt. And all of the tamers would have to grab a single bar, as pets do not = an area effect. A very different picture from a hoard of wraith form necros casting wither.

    4 mages casting eq, I've been told, is an alternative to necros casting wither, but the casting time of eq seems much slower to me. I don't have the numbers, I bet they are in the other thread.

    I have a necro mage that works spawns and a tamer-mage who occasionally does so too. The tamer does cast EQ to try to kill spawn but he doesn't get his mana back from it; he gets off a few EQ's and his mana is spent.

    If this stuff were "just as good", it would be being used a similar percent of the time to Wither, but it's not.

    BTW, the way that you can cast wither seemingly forever while in wraith form, leeching all that mana from all of those highly-damaged targets, plus that the wraith form can move freely in dense spawn, all of that put together is surely part of what makes the wraith necro such an amazing spawn worker.

    Heck, if the guy was 'chain withering', look at the screenshot and look at the guy's mana. It's full. The guy's almost dead, but he's at full mana.

    When I look at the way that Wither works compared with Holy Light and Meteor Swarm, it makes me wonder if the non-distributed damage was a design oversight; that's how much better Wither is at spawnworking and choke points than those spells.
     
  11. Crazy_Pants

    Crazy_Pants Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    There's some debate as to how powerful Wither is as compared with other spells. A buddy of mine grabbed this screenshot as he worked a rat spawn in Despise with his necro.

    When you look at this, it's clear why it's literally insta-death when you get 4 necros standing together at a drop-in or a choke point, and a player walks into it. There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    I hope that sometime, either chivalry can do this, or... something. It's one factor behind why the necro-mage is so desired for both spawn defense and working the spawn itself.

    The fact that Holy Light can be done while moving doesn't begin to balance it (heh).

    Click the image to see the full sized screenshot.

    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe in Trammel this is a problem but why would anyone care in Felucca? The sole purpose of Champ Spawns are to encourage PvP not PvM, I don't want to spend extra time at the spawn I want to get to the end then fight some reds.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Maybe in Trammel this is a problem but why would anyone care in Felucca? The sole purpose of Champ Spawns are to encourage PvP not PvM, I don't want to spend extra time at the spawn I want to get to the end then fight some reds.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Its fun to read.

    <blockquote><hr>

    When you look at this, it's clear why it's literally insta-death when you get 4 necros standing together at a drop-in or a choke point, and a player walks into it.

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    Maybe in Trammel this is a problem but why would anyone care in Felucca? The sole purpose of Champ Spawns are to encourage PvP not PvM, I don't want to spend extra time at the spawn I want to get to the end then fight some reds.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Didn't necessarily say that the speed with which the spawn gets worked is a problem, but will point out that this is what Wither in wraith form does, and necro is the only template with anything that works this well.

    Combine that with the offensive power of necro+magery combos in fights and the defensive abilities of magery (field-laying, crosshealing, arch-cure) and one can see some of the reasons why necro-mages are so preferred for such things.

    If it was decided that things weren't quite right this way, there's more than one thing that could be done, but none of that is my choice obviously. Would be neat if high-end chivalry was strengthened so that paladins could manage the same feats. Like I'd said somewhere else, 120 Chivalry scrolls get used for toilet paper these days, whereas 120 necro actually has a real world application. I don't know the full ramifications of that - - like, what chiv-mages would really be like after such changes, but yeah, there's different things that could be done.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    people love to miss points. the main point here is the range of the spell. and that this is one necro. large guild will prolly have like 20 people with necro. god knows soem rp giulds have over 50 just cause they RP evil. Its a problem. cool spell, but the distance and compounding is something to atleast take into consideration

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can do the exact same thing with earthquake covering an even larger area dealing even more damage. Your point again? What about wildfire with a level 6 arcane focus? how about a 4/6 chiv holy light spammer? all 1 spell all cover large areas and deal great damage. Welcome to the world of magic get used to it...
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    now post a screenshot of the power of hit area + momentum strike.

    thx.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually I kinda want to see the new-and-improved frenzied whirlwind in action.
     
  16. Slamer

    Slamer Guest

    are you still here?

    i thought you had embarrised yourself enough last time
     
  17. Those wounds are bad, you should find a healer.
     
  18. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    ratman cold resist minimum 10 average 15 maximum 20 ........... nice try

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And this has bearing on the topic in which way?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you where trying to show how deadly wither is , then show a picture where its spammed at critters with maybe 10-15% resist to the dmg type versus a players 60-70% , I think thats relevant , but ofc you knew that ....

    As other peopel allready stated , if you get 4-5 guys ontop of each other and spam holy light , EQ or chain lightning it would also be rather unplesant to pass that point
     
  19. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    yes... but 4 players... in 2s can cast it 2 times each.. for 8 times.. or hit a player for around 140-160 damage.... all players.... 1 or 10 players...

    2s = 140+ damage (given 120 nerco 120 SS with max PvP spell damage)
     
  20. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    holy light , EQ or chain lightning it would also be rather unplesant to pass that point

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Holy light doesn't have near the range or damage (usually). EQ is slow and so is chain lightning. Those two resist are also normally higher. Wither is FAST, long range, and hits fairly hard, and does not dilute damage like most area spells.
     
  21. I"m not sure I believe the argument, that a spell, whichever spell, needs to be nerfed because when used by *insert number greater than 1 here* it is over powering.

    I think if the argument is to be valid.. it needs to be demonstrated that if ONE person casts the spell all others fall to the ground. To do that affectively you have to leave the comments about muliple players standing at a choke point spamming the spell. Discuss why.. when 1 necro casts wither it is overpowering.

    First you have to make the point that it is 100% fail-safe. That you can never interrupt it, and you can never counteract it.... which I think is not something you can say, since all spells can be interrupted, and it can be countered with the weaving wind, poison fields, meteor swarm, chain lightening?

    Second, you have to address that the power of the spell is so overwhelming that it takes out a pvp'r (not monsters) on one hit... and again. I'm not entirely certain you can make that case either. But state some facts.. like wither ALWAYS deals xx damage and assuming someone has xx resist it will deal more than xx damage.

    But it seems that your objection to the wither spell is based on other guilds use of this tactic at choke points in Fel. And that, to me just seems like whining.

    LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM
     
  22. The problem with constantly nerfing is that once you do so, then the next best spell will seem overpowered and we'll have to nerf that.

    Can't we all just agree that there are things in this game that are simply uber? Yes ok, so wither is great, instead of nerfing it, why don't we make sure other classes have uber [censored] as well?

    And let's face it, whether or not you die in combat will come down to teamwork (swarming), 3rd party programs, and finally your talent you actually have in using the template you created.

    Let's get rid of haxors first, then let's yell at UO Devs to focus on balancing without having to keep up with the constant cycle of nerfing.

    That said, there are some things that needed nerfing, but we all could agree on it, and it was pretty obvious: IE Lightning Strike, one hit killing people with an ornate axe was pretty fun, but completely overpowered. There is no place in this game for 1 hit kills. On the other hand, however, nerfing evade was bogus [​IMG] And I'm still disappointed at the direction and process by which they took UO in creating such a random delay in the casting of a spell.
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    ratman cold resist minimum 10 average 15 maximum 20 ........... nice try

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And this has bearing on the topic in which way?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you where trying to show how deadly wither is , then show a picture where its spammed at critters with maybe 10-15% resist to the dmg type versus a players 60-70% , I think thats relevant , but ofc you knew that ....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    So, you make a condescending post ("nice try") implying that I'm indicating that Wither hits people at the same intensity as it does ratmen, as opposed with what I'd actually said, which was:

    <blockquote><hr>

    There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The screenshot remains a great demonstration of the distribution characteristics, as well as being an extremely common scene in spawnworking.

    <blockquote><hr>

    As other peopel allready stated , if you get 4-5 guys ontop of each other and spam holy light , EQ or chain lightning it would also be rather unplesant to pass that point

    [/ QUOTE ]

    All of this "if this, if that, it would be oh so deadly" but, why don't we see people doing it? Some of those reasons would be, holy light does less damage and paladins won't be in wraith form so they wouldn't get their mana back, EQ eats your mana alive and fizzes at 105 magery (whereas Wither doesn't fiz at 105 necro, correct me if I'm wrong), and I donno what to tell you about chain lightning except that people aren't doing it.
     
  24. <blockquote><hr>

    There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    How does Essence of Wind work?
     
  25. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
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    Wither is absolutely unacceptable!

    It killed 20 rats surrounding me 4 tiles away in 2 seconds.

    Absolutely ludacrous.
     
  26. <blockquote><hr>

    Wither is absolutely unacceptable!

    It killed 20 rats surrounding me 4 tiles away in 2 seconds.

    Absolutely ludacrous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A player trying to belittle the point, as seen in the post above, isn't surprising.

    Jeremy mentioned in a post recently that, in so many words, the players who are using a certain template will not tend to raise issue if some part of their template is stronger than everything else available.

    Anyone who spends time on a halfway sizeable shard working and succesfully defending Fel champ spawns knows how this thing works, there's no secret here. It's easy to observe that the necromages with wraith form wither are the workhorses of succesful spawn guilds for working spawn plus the spawn defense. You don't even have to join their vent to note it, although if you do, you'll hear the people verifying they have enough "necroes" as they set up to work the spawn.

    This aspect of necro has been so 'good' for so long that there are lots of necro mages nowdays, so you're going to see sentiments like the one in the quoted post.

    Maybe this is just how the UO people like necro to work, and things are great exactly this way! But that's the point where opinion comes into it, as opposed with where someone acts out, like this poster did, that the point isn't there in the first place.
     
  27. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    unless they changed it... I don't believe EQ can kill.. only keeps taking half life.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can do the exact same thing with earthquake covering an even larger area dealing even more damage. Your point again?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I understand you want to defend your spell; but even so; it is very strong for it's little cost. Wither is SOO much better than EQ.
     
  28. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    How does Essence of Wind work?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    "Any victim chilled receives a penalty to swing speed increase and faster casting for a duration of 1-5 seconds, unless it successfully makes a successful Resisting Spells skill check."

    It's not a damage spell, it hoses your casting and swing speed.

    (If I remember correctly, they are changing it too, I saw it mentioned on the boards by Jeremy. It seems that elements of the intended effects to dexers and spellcasters may have been unintentionally swapped, not sure, but it looked like something like that. In any case, they say it isn't acting the way they meant it to. I'm glad they are looking at it, it does seem to be very heavy handed against anything that needs to cast, the way it is now.)
     
  29. First advice, learn to read the spell description if you don't know it...


    Here's your "no damage spell", at 59.5 Spellweaving, Focus 1. Cold damage on undeads.

    [​IMG]
     
  30. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
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    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Wither is absolutely unacceptable!

    It killed 20 rats surrounding me 4 tiles away in 2 seconds.

    Absolutely ludacrous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A player trying to belittle the point, as seen in the post above, isn't surprising.

    Jeremy mentioned in a post recently that, in so many words, the players who are using a certain template will not tend to raise issue if some part of their template is stronger than everything else available.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I play a scribe/tank mage 75% if the time and a weaver for the rest.

    I have no problem fighting necros on the open field. Your issue is with choke points. Not necros.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have a Mage/Arcanist that has GM Magery/120.0 Eval/GM Med/GM SW/GM Inscrip/GM Wrest/GM Resist who is in a suit with 100% LRC/40% LMC/47% SDI/4 FC/6 FCR/30% DCI and all Resists are at least 60. His Spell Woven Britches boost him to 110.0 Med. His only problems is his suit is not Corpse Proof, and he has no MR on the suit, meaning my spells may hit hard, but i can't keep them going for long.
    With 4 FC, Essence of Wind takes about as long to cast as a FS, meaning for a 1 on 1 fight, it's not very good, considering it will be disrupted often. However in a group fight and your' opponents are distracted and not focusing on you, it is great against other casters. It heavily damages their' FC (If they don't resist), and if followed with a Thunderstorm (Which takes about as long as a Fireball to cast with 4 FC, if not a little faster) it also damages their' FCR. Wildfire is then good to disrupt whatever spells they attempt.
    Doing that, a Mage/Arcanist would kick the crap out of 4 Mages that are spamming EQ (Because the EoW would go off before EQ, and would damage their' FC for a few secs). However, it won't quite work well against a bunch of Necro's spamming Wither, due to the fact that Wither casts much faster, and has a greater range.
     
  32. Remember the OP spoke about 4 necros on a choke point.
    Wouldn't 4 arcanists (Focus bonus) on a choke point create the same wall of damage?
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not quite. Even with a Lvl 6 Focus and GM+ SW, SW spells don't hit as hard as Wither does, they're not as fast to cast, they don't have the range of Wither, both EoW and Thunderstorm are very mana intensive (Even with 40% LMC), and unless the Arcanist also has Necro/SS, he won't be leeching back Mana. The main thing about SW's offensive spells is not the damage, but the effect they do, the damage to FC with EoW, and the damage to FCR with Thunderstorm. Wildfire is pretty good for disrupting spells too, i like to think of it as the Arcanist's version of Strangle.

    SW is actually mainly a Defensive skill, with Lvl 5 Focus and GM SW, Attunement absorbs 75 damage for 120 Secs. Gift of Renewal heals 14 Health every 2 secs for 80 Secs. Arcane Empowerment gives +33% SDI/+10% Summoned Creature Health/+Dispel Difficulty for Summons/+Healing Damage for a total of 30 seconds. Gift of Life (Self Ressurection) lasts for 780 secs (13 minutes.)

    This here is a screenshot of a Heal with GM Magery/GM SW/Lvl 6 Focus with Arcane Empowerment active.
    [​IMG]

    Screenshot of Greater Heal with GM Magery/GM SW/Lvl 6 Focus with Arcane Empowerment active.
    [​IMG]
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    how in any way is this a problem?


    Lets not make all skills "even"


    pick and chose your template brother. Each has its "best" use.
     
  35. <blockquote><hr>

    When you look at this, it's clear why it's literally insta-death when you get 4 necros standing together at a drop-in or a choke point, and a player walks into it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At a choke point or drop in you are very rarely cursed. Wither vs 70 cold does more like 20 damage. 4x20 = 80 damage, no one PvP's with 80 hp.

    Aside from when your heavily outnumbered or trapped this can be easily avoided. If your heavily outnumbered or trapped it will not matter what's hitting you, it's not specific to Wither.

    <blockquote><hr>

    There's nothing else that has this effect, this way of hitting *everything* at full force instead of distributing one amount of damage through all the targets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wind, Thunderstorm, Holy Light all hit at full force pertaining to their maximums. They do not hit the same damage but as their purpose is different theres no need for them to.

    The picture is entirely irrelavent.
     
  36. <blockquote><hr>

    Even with a Lvl 6 Focus and GM+ SW, SW spells don't hit as hard as Wither does, they're not as fast to cast, they don't have the range of Wither

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Wither requires double the skill points. The spells don't need to hit as hard it's not their purpose. I don't have an accurate way of measuring spell cast times but I'm fairly sure 4/6 Thunderstorm is faster than 2/6 Wither. They have a much larger range than Wither.

    Arcane Empowerment can also boost Chivalry heals, which can be handy as their both 4/6.
     
  37. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    wither is stupid, get a bunch of people cast prtoection tele to a spot wither anyone down. doesnt matter, since they nerfed evasion still gonna take it in the butt.

    way way to fast castign for it and does way to much dmg.
     
  38. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    AoE spells in general are not balanced in comparison to eachother. There are lots of inconsistencies.

    The spells and some of the information:
    <pre>
    Spell Skill Mana Cast Time Range Targetted Scaled In Town Can miss G/B/N
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Arch Cure Magery 11 2.0 5x5 Yes No Yes No Good
    Arch Protection Magery 11 2.0 5x5 Yes No Yes No Good (Nuetral)
    Mass Curse Magery 20 3.0 5x5 Yes No No No Bad
    Mass Dispel Magery 40 3.5 17x17+ Yes No Yes No Nuetral
    Chain Lightning Magery 40 3.5 5x5 Yes Yes No No Bad
    Meteor Swarm Magery 40 3.5 5x5 Yes Yes No No Bad
    Earthquake Magery 50 4.0 17x17+ No No No No Bad
    Wither Necromancy 23 1.5 5x5 No No Yes No Bad
    Frenzied WWind Bushido 30 - 3x3 No Yes Yes Yes Bad
    Whirlwind Tactics 15 - 3x3 No ?? Yes Yes Bad
    Hit Area - - - 5x5 No No Yes No Bad
    Holy Light Chivalry 10 5x5 No No Yes No Bad
    Noble Sacrifice Chivalry 20 No No Yes No Good
    Thunderstorm Spellweave 32 No Partially Bad
    Essence of Wind Spellweave 40 No No Bad</pre>

    Too lazy to go through and finish it all up...
    Should have factors like being disruptable, can damage friends/heal enemies, effectiveness compared to a similar single-target spell, and more to show even more inconsistencies...
    At some point, a designer (maybe with the help of a focus group), should go through and make all AoE type effects utlize a common set of rules, and then should go through and balance their effectiveness with respect to eachother.
     
  39. I think that'd be kind of difficult taking in to account they don't share the same faster casting cap and spellweaving is dependant on the focus and chiv is dependant on karma and various other factors.

    Edit: Oh plus as I said on the other post, some of those things require 2 skills some only require 1.
     
  40. Slymenstra

    Slymenstra Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Wither is absolutely unacceptable!

    It killed 20 rats surrounding me 4 tiles away in 2 seconds.

    Absolutely ludacrous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A player trying to belittle the point, as seen in the post above, isn't surprising.

    Jeremy mentioned in a post recently that, in so many words, the players who are using a certain template will not tend to raise issue if some part of their template is stronger than everything else available.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Didn't Jeremy also say recently that Arch Cure was overpowered?

    Let's not bring in other incorrect views to back our own....incorrect views.

    In a game like Ultima Online, where people have played and competed for 10 years, you will always have a "dominating" template. Simply because we crunch numbers. If you have Template A, you will always be comparing it to Template B. If Template B does 1 more point of damage, or allows 1 more point of Mana Regen, you will pick Template B. No real pvpers pick templates in PvP because of how they look at Luna bank sporting a neon weapon. You pick the one that does 1 more point of damage.

    With how bad UO Pvp has become, the template that will serve that 1 more point of damage in a choke, is the necro. Nothing to do with magery, mind you. It just makes sense to put on magery, since you need MR/LRC/Mana. The only thing taking wither away will do is bring in more Super Dragons, holy light spammers, winders and whirlwind monkeys. Until, that is, we figure out which one gives that 1 more point.

    Then, it will become uniformed conformity again, and the kids that pick templates based on how they look at Luna bank sporting a neon weapon, will be back here to whine and cry until it is "fixed".

    No wonder the UO population has fallen so far, losing it's veterans to games with more stable Pvp systems.

    For shame, EA.
     
  41. Slymenstra

    Slymenstra Guest

    Now, put up the screenshots of 120 magery heals with the same buffs.

    That should be cute. [​IMG]
     
  42. Ive noticed that if i put down DP feilds and fire fields it tends to clear the choke points nicely
     
  43. Slymenstra

    Slymenstra Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ive noticed that if i put down DP feilds and fire fields it tends to clear the choke points nicely

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fire fields? Are you talking about Felucca Pvp or Trammel rpvrp? Since when do people use fire field for anything? Might as well pick lock/telekenisis them to death...

    DP fields only back a choke up or move them forward. 99.9999% of choke points are littered with fields, placing and replacing to gain foothold.
     
  44. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    <blockquote><hr>

    I think that'd be kind of difficult taking in to account they don't share the same faster casting cap and spellweaving is dependant on the focus and chiv is dependant on karma and various other factors.

    Edit: Oh plus as I said on the other post, some of those things require 2 skills some only require 1.

    [/ QUOTE ]Those would be other factors that need to be taken into consideration when balancing them with respect to each other.
    There are already some general guidelines that are used to balance targeted spells against each other when factoring in focus level, skill requirements, faster casting, range, etc. Those guidelines need more refinement, but AoE effects are very, very different from each other right now, so those guidelines can't even start to be helpful in seeing how the various AoE spells can be compared anywhere close to the level that two targeted spells can be compared.
     
  45. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    now post a screenshot of the power of hit area + momentum strike.

    thx.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    momentum strike + taskmaster + 2 years ago when u could spam disarm cuz it didn't work + despise bridge = lolbodies.
     
  46. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ive noticed that if i put down DP feilds and fire fields it tends to clear the choke points nicely

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fire fields? Are you talking about Felucca Pvp or Trammel rpvrp? Since when do people use fire field for anything? Might as well pick lock/telekenisis them to death...

    DP fields only back a choke up or move them forward. 99.9999% of choke points are littered with fields, placing and replacing to gain foothold.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fire fields recently got buffed. I can see justification in using them. They aren't awesome or anything, but they do damage.
     
  47. <blockquote><hr>

    First advice, learn to read the spell description if you don't know it...


    Here's your "no damage spell", at 59.5 Spellweaving, Focus 1. Cold damage on undeads.

    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I had taken that description from the UO web site about the spell. I'd never noticed it being used to cause damage to people, it's always been the spell that destroys everyone's casting to where everyone had better pull back and hold up for a bit. Wither, Meteor swarm, etc. are the ones that get cast if you want to put down damage.

    Maybe the damage difference is why. I've included a screenshot of me on test center with GM necro and GM spirit speak hitting similar monsters. It wasn't natural to stand back a couple tiles, I just floated myself right into the hoard and hit the wither spell.

    Wither's damage was close to 2x as much, ranged from 26 to 40. Click image for full sized picture.

    [​IMG]

    People can see that it's not "chain withered" because I was interrupted up until the last one finally went off, and the fizzle message is visible. And remember that with 2/5 or 2/6 casting I can bang this spell out over and over again and be leeching mana back the whole time - and then do spirit speak over the corpses to heal up if I'm hurt.
     
  48. ive noticed in pvp if i try to wither a group to death in wraith form, i tend to get eaten by super dragons.