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The Problem with Poison (and a solution)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by lysarius, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. lysarius

    lysarius Guest

    Poisoning in UO is stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand it is WAY to easy to negate 100 points in the poisoning skill with 0 points in the “drink a potion” skill (or a small fraction of the capability of magery, chivalry, etc) On the other hand, poison prevents healing and if you cant heal in UO PvP you are dead meat. This means it NEEDS TO BE SUPER EASY TO CURE poison… Any change to this balance always raises strong reactions from the player base.

    In order to address both sides of this issue I propose the following solution:
    Change the role of poison in combat from primarily a way to prevent healing to primarily a way to do damage over time and interrupt spell casting. How? Make it really hard to cure high level poison and also allow people to heal even if they are poisoned. Since it will be hard to cure high level poison players will see some real benefit to spending 100 points on the skill but since it will not prevent healing it will not be an instant death sentence if you cant cure it easily in combat. This will mean many current templates would have trouble healing poison and would actually take damage over time and spell interruption from poison, but they would not be dead in the water because they could still heal.

    In particular I propose the following changes:

    POTIONS
    - Lesser cure potions can only cure lesser poison
    - Normal cure potions can only cure normal poison and below
    - Greater cure potions can only heal greater poison and below
    - Cure potions cant touch deadly or lethal poison
    - (Maybe allow GM alchemist to bump this up so that they can use greater cures to counter lethal since they actually have skill points invested?)

    BANDAGES - Bandages heal damage even when poisoned and also have a small chance to cure the poison. Maybe something like 120 healing =
    - 25% to 50% chance to cure lethal in addition to healing through the poison?
    - 50% to 75% chance to cure deadly poison in addition to healing through the poison
    - 75% to 100% chance to cure greater poison in addition to healing through the poison
    - Etc

    CHIVALRY - Chiv 120 chiv gives a 50% chance to cure lethal poison

    MAGERY - 120 magery gives greater cure a 50% chance to cure lethal poison

    Comments!?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>



    Comments!?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, why didn't you put this in the thread up there that's devoted to this topic?
     
  3. lol, damnit Flutter you beat me to it!
     
  4. lysarius

    lysarius Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>



    Comments!?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, why didn't you put this in the thread up there that's devoted to this topic?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Because I didnt see one on this topic... I saw one on the test center patch but that is hardly specific to this topic. I dont see a sticky thread... Care to point me in the right direction?
     
  5. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    As a samurai necro I heal through poisons on both accounts. Spirit speak heals right though it Np. Concentration also does though it may get interrupted midway and still I get most of the benefit. I dont bother to cure even lethal. But all my other chars have a tough time with it my healer the worst. I have and will continue to rely on pots.

    If we change poisoning cure rates ------&gt;back to what they were, before this arch cure ridiculousnesses, where it was tough to cure but not impossible I think it will be set right.

    As it is being a poisoner is a waste of points.

    In Pvm however from a curing stand point I do hate having a monster lethal me. And then running for my life untill my cure kicks in. But the trade off is of value to those who spent time and gold on their profession of choice.

    Leaving the room for only one decision poison should be hard to cure !
     
  6. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Even if this proposal isn't perfect, I believe you are dead on with your conclusions and proposed solution. I have always thought, since I began 9 years ago, that poison should work very much like you describe. The devs did the right thing with apples, now they need to do the right thing with poison and how it's cured.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I was workin on a formula for another method for this problem. Your solution, however, sounds very solid.

    A side note about how I feel about the relationship of Cure and Arch Cure. The premise behind Arch Cure having the same curing percentages as Cure is similar to how Arch Protection relates to Protection. In both cases 'Arch' represents the ability to effect multiple targets, not have a greater effect per target.
     
  8. lysarius

    lysarius Guest

    Any other comments?
     
  9. <blockquote><hr>


    Comments!?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My comment is that this is a terrible idea.

    Have a nice day! [​IMG]


    So sorry but, if you can apply poison to me repeatedly at will... I don't see how you need anymore of a boost to the capabilities of your skill. Especially when it only costs 5 mana to poison me..
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    i think before we "change cure pots" we should change it so 1 poison pot=1 charge of poison!!!! ,no more using 2-3 poison pot to run someone out of 30+ cures!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah... no kidding.

    How about you can only put "1 charge" of poison on a blade... and once you poison someone... you have to reapply the poison to use the move again.

    That sounds good!
     
  11. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i think before we "change cure pots" we should change it so 1 poison pot=1 charge of poison!!!! ,no more using 2-3 poison pot to run someone out of 30+ cures!




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Yeah... no kidding.

    How about you can only put "1 charge" of poison on a blade... and once you poison someone... you have to reapply the poison to use the move again.

    That sounds good!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    sounds like a good "balance" to me [​IMG]
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's the way Poison originally worked in Beta, dealt damage and didn't prevent healing. Poison Damage was also alot more serious though. Player's weren't capable of Poisoning with weps until the Alchemy skill was introduced shortly after Beta. Only Silver Serpents did Lethal Poison. Lethal Poison was completely incurable, it was a death sentence. If you got hit with it, the most you could do was start to run back to town to make the trip back to your corpse shorter.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Infectious Strike
    10 mana cost no skills as a human (6 mana @ 40 lmc)
    15 mana cost no skills as a elf (9 mana @ 40 lmc)

    5 man cost as a human with 200 skill points into the poison-lmc-reduction-skills. (3 mana @ 40 lmc)
    10 mana cost as a elf with 200 skill points into the poison-lmc-reduction-skills. (6 mana @ lmc)

    Human character, 8 MR, 30 int (Easily obtainable) - 1.02 Mana per second.

    The human character can spam the poison special once every 3 seconds, at 3 mana each, and regain back 3.06 mana over those three seconds (all of it back). It creates an endless cycle only to be broken by too many misses, or parry.



    And this skill should be made more powerful why?
     
  14. Mana cost = almost nothing as is.

    Spammable....


    Mobs use poison....


    Everyone has already voiced their opinion during the "Changes to ArchCure" Crisis....


    Bad Idea Imo. If they don't carry cure pots they die pretty easy.
     
  15. lysarius

    lysarius Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Infectious Strike
    10 mana cost no skills as a human (6 mana @ 40 lmc)
    15 mana cost no skills as a elf (9 mana @ 40 lmc)

    5 man cost as a human with 200 skill points into the poison-lmc-reduction-skills. (3 mana @ 40 lmc)
    10 mana cost as a elf with 200 skill points into the poison-lmc-reduction-skills. (6 mana @ lmc)

    Human character, 8 MR, 30 int (Easily obtainable) - 1.02 Mana per second.

    The human character can spam the poison special once every 3 seconds, at 3 mana each, and regain back 3.06 mana over those three seconds (all of it back). It creates an endless cycle only to be broken by too many misses, or parry.

    And this skill should be made more powerful why?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Your post (and most of the other recent replies) are missing the point entirely.

    You are complaing that poisoning can currently be spammed for little skill investment endlessly. The only reason this is a problem is because poison prevents healing... so if someone spams poison on you then you cant heal = problem.

    My proposal would actually weaken this type of poisoner. Lesser poison would be just as easy to cure as it is now and it would no longer prevent healing. If for some reason you choose not to cure it all you have to worry about is some spell interruption and some low damage over time. (The damage from lesser isnt that much in an all 70s suit) Spaming lesser poison isnt an issue because:
    - you can heal through it
    - its just as easy to cure as it is now

    Now in the case of someone who has spent 100 points on the poisoning skill my proposal would allow them to see some benefit from the skill without overpowering poisoning.... because even letahl doesnt prevent you from healing anymore!!!!!! It just does damage over time. If the damage over time needs to be tweaked then that can be looked at.

    The proposal entirely changes the role of poison in combat. You dont have to freak out if someone spams lesser poison on you anymore. Just heal through it and go on. Even if someone lethal poisons you you can still heal through it... but it is gonna take more healing to negate. (as opposed to a no skill potion)
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Your post (and most of the other recent replies) are missing the point entirely.

    You are complaing that poisoning can currently be spammed for little skill investment endlessly. The only reason this is a problem is because poison prevents healing... so if someone spams poison on you then you cant heal = problem.

    My proposal would actually weaken this type of poisoner. Lesser poison would be just as easy to cure as it is now and it would no longer prevent healing. All you have to worry about is some spell interruption and some low damage over time. If for some reason you choose not to cure it (because the damage from lesser isnt that much in an all 70s suit) then spamming isnt an issue because reposioning you while you are still poisoned isnt really worth it.

    Now in the case of someone who has spent 100 points on the poisoning skill my proposal would allow them to see some benefit from the skill without overpowering poisoning.... because it doesnt prevent you from healing anymore!!!!!! It just does damage over time. If the damage over time needs to be tweaked then that can be looked at.

    The proposal entirely changes the role of poison in combat. You dont have to freak out if someone spams lesser poison on you anymore. Just heal through it and go on. Even if someone lethal poisons you you can still heal through it... but it is gonna take more healing to negate.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Either way your suggestion is TERRIBLE.

    Do you know how to play a mage?

    Do you know what it means to poison cycle?

    How would a mage poison cycle a dexy if they can heal through a typical mages LESSER poison with thier 4 second bandages?

    How would this impact pvp in general? Mage vs. mage, mage vs. dexy, dexy vs. dexy, Potions while poisoned, gheal wands while poisoned, poison fields, Spirit speak, vampric embrace, etc. ALL would be affected.

    It would also just add one more reason to not have magic resist as a skill also.

    We would end up unbalancing the game who know how many more times then it currently is, AND have to follow up on re-balancing everything over AGAIN. With a change this BIG, it would NEVER get done right the first time, or the second, or the third.

    There is no reason for me, or anyone else to justify why this is a terrible idea any longer.
    Good luck!
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>

    And this skill should be made more powerful why?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Your post (and most of the other recent replies) are missing the point entirely.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No dude... we get your point completely... what's being missed is you trying to understand what we're saying.

    Your idea while ambitious... would be horrible if it was put in this game.

    Period.