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The results of 25 Level 6 maps on Test Center

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Many thanks to Athena of my guild for doing these tests.

    *salutes*

    She did 25 level 6 Maps, as I say in the subject line.

    Trammel guards are about the same as they are now.
    Ilehsnar guards are exodus minions gargoyle destroyers and titans.
    Ter Mur guards are laval elementals greater poison elementals and enraged earth elementals.
    (She tells me one of the Ter Mur maps is in one of the areas we can't get to, so you may want to fix that before the Publish goes live.)
    Malas guards are rotting corpses, devourers of souls, and wanderers of the void.
    Tokuno guards are rune beetles, hiryus, ladies of the snow, onis, and the yomotsu.

    Loot was 750k gold.

    23 of 25 had stacks of 6 Imbuing Reagents.

    11 of 25 had a skeleton key.

    8 out of 25 had a pardon. (I think this is way too high; if you're doing this at all it should be a way around getting a few counts killing blues at a champ spawn, or killing blues who would attack Faction Reds --as I freely admit to doing before I joined Factions-- not as a way out of innumerable murder counts.)

    6 of 25 had vines

    3 of 25 had alacrity scrolls. One of them was Imbuing, which implies we can have Alacrity scrolls for skills that weren't around when Alarcity Scrolls first spawned.

    2 out of 25 had the new Brittle Artifacts (that's my made up name for them, btw). She got a Surge Shield and a Mana Orb Talisman.

    Most of the chests had one item that had 6 properties, when the normal max is 5. None were great due to low intensities and bad combinations, but obviously there's some great potential here.

    You have a chance upon failure of lockpicking to spawn a creature called a grubber. The grubber will eat items from the chest. In the Enhanced Client, I am told, it looks like Yoshi from the old Super Mario games. Items that you destroy by your failure look like hay.

    Many thanks to Athena. *salutes*

    -Galen's player
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Wow, thanks for the results. That's a lot of guild in just 25. However I am not sure that 8 of 25 for pardons is too high. Take into consideration how many counts most murderers have now-days since they are only 1 count per pardon.
    :p

    Looking at the results I think they could use more than just 3 or 4 brittle artifacts that are listed at the moment. Hopefully the potential for the high property weapons shows itself as it kind of sucks to hear that out of 25 that none of them were really good.
     
  3. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    One thing I disagree with on your opinions.

    Pardons should NOT be insanely hard to get. Its great for blue players to help defend spawns without having to wait out the 40 hours per count. that is just insane. Besides its not like reds with thousands of counts are going to be buying these up. Good for the blue pk :p
     
  4. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    I'm rather disappointed in reading the changes. I would have thought there might be at least one unique hard to get item. A powerful artifact or some awesome statuette or decoration of some kind...even if the chances were a 1 in 100. Something.....

    I was really looking forward to the changes. I certainly don't forsee myself doing alot of treasure hunting unless someone tells some tales of a unique rare or valuable item of some kind.

    Treasure Mapping really shot have the chance of hitting it BIG even it's few and far between. Kinda like playing the lottery but it doesn't look thus far as if anything of that nature was included. :confused:
     
  5. So, the only incentive for people to behave themselves in Fel should be taken away. HELL NO! Blue PK? If you are going to do the crime, you should have to pay the price. I am all for the pardons, but they should be very rare and super expensive. They should not be some easy way for people to grief others by being murderers with a blue status provided by these pardons.
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    ...you want to argue over pardons make your own thread. I'll just say this though, a murderer in trammel is no threat to anyone, lol.
     
  7. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest


    You have no idea what you are talking about. The fact that you don't know what a blue PK would mean proves it. How often do you think someone gets PK'd in the traditional sense? get over it already.....murderers of past days are long gone. These will not help most reds out cause it would take hundreds if not thousands to turn them blue. These are for players that get murder counts from defending or pvping against other blues.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Just imbuing ? No Peerless ingredients ?

    If so, that upsets me and quite some.........

    The fact that intensities are low, not even occasionally have items with mods at the higher up range, quite sucks.
    One of the complaints about Treasure chests is that what they had was junk.

    Sure, now we have some new items but eventually, the new items will become old and if the rest of the loot stays junk because intensities stay low, this will eventually make treasure hunting not desirable.

    Random mods usually spawn in ackward combinations and so are not much usefull as compared to imbuing. Having at least spawn them, once in a while, with higher intensities, would not be a major problem since with imbuing one can set them as wanted, moreless.
     
  9. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Doesn't sound very impressive sadly.

    So how hard are the maps to find now? Are there any indicators on them now that makes them a bit easier to find as they're no longer in fixed locations?
     
  10. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The point Galen, and Clair, is trying to make is the current drop rate of pardons is too high. Why are you telling Clair to make a new thread to discuss pardons when the OP of this thread addresses pardons directly:

    Obviously, pardons is something to discuss in this thread, by direction of the OP's criticism.

    ?? Clair does not, at any point, show confusion regarding what a "blue PK" is. He simply addresses what Galen brings up, and agrees with him in principal.

    At the rate of 8 out of 25 (about 1/3) it will be pretty easy to get ANY count stack down to 0. You're being short sighted if you think only casual, or defender type players will benefit from pardons, although, they will give way to a more PK-friendly crowd, unafraid of picking up counts on their bluebies. The question is how easy should it be to avoid murder counts? I mean, we're talking about something that at one time gave you stat loss, and now it can just be completely cleared up thanks to some grinders.

    Sounds like people can still solo these LVL 6 maps, and they obviously aren't that hard to track down either. If you did nothing but LvL 6 TMaps for 40 hours you'd probably be able to burn at least 13 counts given an ample time of 1 hour per a tmap, which is probably a lot more time than needed, especially for a group. The available pardons per shard will add up fairly fast.

    In my opinion, I like that there is an easy way to reprieve now. However, I think there should be repercussions for players who murder other players right after they use a pardon or a stack of them. These should NOT cater to casual users because then that just defeats the murder system. They should be used by people who simply want to become blue again. In order to enforce pardons, any player who commits a murder within 40 real time hours following a pardon should have the full pre-pardoned count +1 restored, and there should be a 1 hour cool down between uses to avoid wash and repeats.
     
  11. If you are blue and you argo another blue, that is and always has been a criminal act in UO. It doesn’t matter if you are standing at the Yew Gate or defending a spawn at Oasis. Who is helped by a relatively cheap way out of murder counts? You get murder counts for killing other Blues because YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE KILLING OTHER BLUES! My point is that if these pardons are too easily obtainable, they will be used to circumvent intended game mechanics (in this case the costs built in to killing other players). They need to be expensive enough to make sure they are not used casually.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I agree.

    Pardons should be way rarer than the test showed them to be.

    Murder counts were added for a reason, because player killing was hurting the game (and many other players left the game because of it).

    Giving to players the ability to switch back and forth from red to blue with little effort does not seem to me a good idea at all.
     
  13. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    As always Popps, you do not take outside influences into account. As another player mentioned, often times blues will take counts from DEFENDING THEIR SPAWNS. Think before you post, thanks.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Murder counts were given to players killing other innocent players when Fel was the ONLY facet out there before trammel was even a thought. Players had no choice in regards to what rule-set they could play in. Now days we have what, 6 facets all together where fel is the only facet where this can happen. Those who don't want part of it now have a choice to completely avoid that aspect of the game.

    Murder counts essentially have no meaning anymore. It is not exactly common that any real innocents get caught and killed in fel. Most counts are from real PvP that occurs in champ spawns or regular battles between factions groups where non-factioners participate.

    I'd be willing to bet if UO started out with both trammel and fel in the beginning there would have never been any such thing is murder counts.
     
  15. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    ... so 25 level -6- maps were done.

    Effectively the high end of the treasure map arena was tested with a fairly unrealistic group of maps.

    I'm sure there are those with hundreds of level 6's sitting on them... however, after those are all done, what is the overall drop rate of 6's?

    Did you do any 5's and 4's to compare drop rates?

    Before anyone gets upset about the rates, I'd do ALL of the lower levels to see what the overall drop rate is on everything.

    There is absolutely no reason to get upset about high drop rates at the highest level of difficulty, I EXPECT you to get lots of good things at that point... it's kinda the WHOLE POINT of doing them.

    Again, explain to me where the thousands of treasure-hunters are that will be doing these thousands of level 6's to get those pardons that folks are worried about??


    ... not to mention, why wouldn't you just charge 10 million a piece for them.

    However, as for difficulty of gathering, I was under the impression they were going to beef up the guardians too, making the solitary treasure hunter rarer, but perhaps that was wishful thinking.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not find this to be true, not when felucca is given spawn that no other facet has.

    What you said would be correct "if" and only if, spawn was the same across all facets, regardless from the facet. This way players could really pick up their facet of choice, freely.

    Unfortunately, when players have to play a facet when they need certain items, that takes that freedom of choice away.

    At least, now we have murderers red tagged and when players see them they can act accordingly.

    If murderers get the chance to change back and forth from red to blue this will make it even harder for those adventuring Felucca to spot trouble and try be out of trouble as much as possible.

    Not a good change, not a good change at all for the game, IMHO.
    It will only make Felucca more deserted, I think.




    They keep murderers red tagged and, most importantly, keep them out of the rest of the facets. Why should murdering other players come with hardly any consequences ?

    No thanks. Those who choose to kill other players should get their counts and stay red with all that means.

    I can understand occasional pardons but only if very, very rare and very, very occasional.

    As of now, they seem to drop way, but really way too commonly as it has been reported.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I might well be wrong, but personally, I do not expect reds to spend gold on buying them but rather, do maps themselves to stock up pardons and then use them at will to switch back and forth from red to blue as they wish.
     
  18. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    The drop rates are fine. If anything some of them are too low.
     
  19. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Another thing is that low level maps are the same amount of work finding as high level treasure maps. The only difference is the guardians, which doesn't make that huge of a difference.

    Lower level maps should get a bigger boost to them as such and be closer to the higher level maps.
     
  20. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Great job, on doing all those maps, and posting the result :)
    Regarding Pardons.

    They are great, but IMHO they need to be part of the IM_Sorry_Quest, where you have to take a Quest from Fx. Lord brittish, where you have to visit all the shrines, and donate 500K at each shrine in feluca. When done you return to Lord brittish, turn in the pardon. and your'e murder count, would be lowered by 1, and it can't go below 5.
    Requirement for taking the quest should be that the char is RED.

    Drop rate of pardons should be higher, what we need is a goldsink..
     
  21. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
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    In my opinion, all of Fel is akin to the the Wild West or a Pirate's seaport - and should remain so! If a Trammie like myself wants to venture forth into the "Danger Zone", then do so with the full knowledge that you can - and most likely will - be murdered.

    Power Scrolls, SOT 3.0's and hard to get replicas should be reserved for Fel's denizens, us Trammies have plenty of other items to trade for them.

    The whole idea of the revamped "treasure chest" is to make Treasure Hunting lucrative again, so the drop rate for the "get out of jail free" passes should remain as it is.
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Hardly. Who would not go to fel just because someone can remove 1 count at a time? Maybe those who are already scared to go to fel and I hardly think anyone cares of they go to fel even less or even abandon it.

    Those who go for PvP will continue to go regardless.
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It wont change anything... reds are red because they wanna be. I think the days of people popping a few people, then waiting till they are blue again are lonnnnnng gone. I would wager that most reds probably have hundreds of counts and no desire to be blue again. It doesn't matter anymore to be red, there is no penalty, especially with 7 character slots.

    The element of surprise would be minimal, and in fact less of an edge than just being a stealther. And that ignores the fact the blue people will kill you if the provocation/justification is appropriate.

    To me this is a nice tool for those who don't WANT to be red, but ended up red killing blue dill holes who had it coming.
     
  24. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Well said!

    Here's a good example of why these pardons shouldn't be "extremely rare" and would be great for moments like this:

    I'm new to Atlantic. Blue pvper. Joined factions and watching my "red" faction friends getting ganked by a million blues. I step in to defend him. I attack a blue, he runs off. Kills himself and counts me. Pretty lame. So now I'm in the battle and attack another. Well he dies and I get another count.

    This is about 3 minutes of fighting and I've got 2 murder counts for "defending" my friends in battle.

    You see, this isn't nefarious acting that should be punished by waiting out 40 hours per count. I'm now red, lol. Which is something I didn't want to be considering the numerous amount of blues ready to gank ya lol.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am sorry but a big, sound NO.

    "Want" to venture forth into the "Danger Zone" to me means wanting free of constraints. A choice NOT dictated by other that the will to go there for the PvP aspects.

    The equation changes totally when players might feel obliged, if they need to acquire certain items, to "have to" go there. This is not a freely made decision, it is "pushed", so to speak, by the need to get certain items not obtainable elsewhere.

    I have always disliked "baits" to have players go to Felucca. It is not the right way, IMHO, to have players want to engage into PvP.

    A better design and better rules for PvP (i.e. a more balanced out fighting environment where fights' outcomes are always open ended for all parties involved....) is what PvP needs to have more players play with a PvP ruleset, not baits that end up with upset and frustrated players which, eventually, hurt the game's subscriptions.

    I think that "risk vs reward" actually harmed PvP in UO, not helped it.

    I think, infact, that either getting players bored at the game because they win fights too easily, or frustrated at the game because they hardly can win any fights, does not help the game and only gets the game to end up losing subscriptions for players either bored out or frustrated.

    Only having fights with "open up" outcomes at all times, regardless of one's own wealth or uber gear/weaponry, can bring that uncertainty and challenging feeling which could keep players interested because neither bored nor frustrated.

    But this requires having players be brought on a levelling ground when talking about PvP.

    Sure, imbuing is a step into helping that, and faction items also helps yet, I do not think it that PvP in the game should resort to "baits" (items exclusive to a facet) to promote itself.

    Players should PvP for the fun of it which means, changing the rules and the way PvP works to make it finally appealing and enjoyable to play to as many players as possible.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I disagree.

    There is quite a good number of players, playing Felucca, who is concerned about not getting murder counts and so, they watch their kills carefully only for those circumstances where they really have to kill another blue.

    That is, the way the game is now helps reducing murdering of other players somehow.

    Having pardons will remove this "check" and will have more players be willing to kill other blues since now, they will be more capable, more easily, to wipe off their counts and stay blue which is what they are concerned about.

    So, as I see it, pardons WILL make player killing more rampant and this, in a game with subscriptions' numbers not as they were in the past, might cause more problems than good to it.

    Often players rage quit. It could be because of other players griefing on them, player killing them, whatever. What matters is that rage quitting looses money to the game.

    Making changes which may cause more players to want to rage quit ain't good changes for the game, IMHO.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That's exactly the point and what currently keeps player killing in check.

    Many players do NOT wish turn to red.

    So, the system works as a containment of player killing.

    Allowing pardons to be not rare will allow players to "wipe off" counts way too easily and thus, make them more willing to kill blues more easily thus make player killing a problem again.

    Rather than risk loosing more subscriptions for more players rage-quitting due to a new rampant player killing, I'd rather prefer the Developers do things way more carefully at first introducing pardons as a very, but very rare drop and see how it goes and then, over time, slowly adjust the drop rate to a level that is good balanced and would not make player killing too rampant.

    Be cautious with pardons is my advice to the Developers. Better not risk a new wave of rage quittings and subscriptions lost.
     
  28. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Want to know what this change will do? All it really will do is dramatically decrease those people who stand around unattended burning off counts! Go around and if you know what you're looking for you'll see them. Ghosts around moongates, in houses, at the bank. If you know the PvPers you'll see them. All the pardon will mean is that instead of standing around while the person is sleeping or doing something completely different they will be logged off or doing it a lot less! Of course and those who make mistakes and suddenly turn red for the first time will have a safe and quick way to undue that. Those who have hundreds of thousands of counts wont be affected because those are the real "pks" who like being red!

    I have a stinky suspicion here that those arguing against this have absolutely no idea how counts are worked on at all. If someone is actually going quit over this...good riddance. They probably don't even have a clue how counts are treated and actually think it's counts are a real hindrance.
     
  29. Wouldn't the risk of going red by having to kill the blues who invade "their" spawn be a part another part of the whole "risk vs. reward" debate?
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, it was my understanding that we were to get some anti scripting code which wll make it so that unattended playing will no longer be possible.

    Meaning, that all those wiping their counts off unattendedly will no longer be able to do it (staying still without any action eventually logs off the account...) with those changes when they will come.

    If we do not want to have player killing or want to at least contain it to avoid rage quittings and loss of subscriptions to the game, then pardons' drop rates should be carefully handled and monitored, IMHO.
     
  31. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Actually Mr. Smarty pants, no one is running a script there. Having people move across your screen, talking, and doing other fun actions keeps your client going. That's how it is for me. And that's why you see everyone huddled around player intense areas (moongates, luna)
     
  32. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Why in the F would someone rage quit over being pk'd? They are in felucia correct? that means they have accepted the risk of being pk'd correct? As you and others like to bring up, this is the "risk vs reward" for you non pvp/pk'er types coming to feluccia. Get your head out of your ass. These pardons will no effect your game play in the slightest, but will tremendously help others, like myself.
     
  33. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    So Reds want more Easy mode eh? 33% drop rate of pardons on level 6 maps is ok?

    "No, no, I'm not really a Red. I was just an INNOCENT blue that went Red attacking a blue in defense of someone else."

    Bull hockey! You wouldn't be Red if you hadn't committed MURDER! You can try to frame it anyway you want, but the game deemed your actS, actS of murder. You didn't get there killing one innocent by mistake. Notice it is called a PARDON. Why the term PARDON? Because it is forgiveness of one's indiscretion.

    These should drop at maybe 1% rate on level 4, 3% on level 5, and somewhere between 5-10% on level 6.
     
  34. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Nah, I think the less options that the "blue" pk has to stay blue the better. If you are going to murder freely that you should have to follow with the end results.

    The above situation would say to me that you should stop hanging around the gate as this is the only place where constant bluebies attack red faction players that I have seen. Go do a spawn or raid. Every raiding party should have two blues to kill the champ and everyone else should be red, simple. You are not defending your friends, your pvping and if that means attacking a blue than you are a murderer plain and simple.

    I have lots of red chars and lots of blue ones but its all about knowing when to take a count and when to not bother. Opening the flood gates is going to bring about more "griefing" from the types that never had the guts to join factions and are nutless.
     
  35. Haddy G

    Haddy G Journeyman
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    I disagree, the drop rate should be higher. They should also add a small chance of failure when using the pardon. It is forged after all.
     
  36. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    LOL, if it had a chance of messing up and giving you 10 counts that would be a fair trade off...
     
  37. Fink

    Fink Guest

    What were the Imbuing reagents? Any relic fragments?
     
  38. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    Thanks Galen. That's a very nice summary of findings. So I assume that things like candelabra of souls do not spawn in the chests anymore?
     
  39. WHAT! ARGH!

    I cant do one chest and get all the good stuff. This change sucks.
     
  40. Shelleybean

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    Maybe on SP but even on a low population shard like Legends, we still have plenty of people burning their murder counts off in Luna. I'm against the pardons and against murder counts decaying in Trammel.
     
  41. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I agree. I really don't understand the thinking behind this, from a producer/developer standpoint.
     
  42. popps

    popps Always Present
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    "Tremendously help others" ??

    Why would that be if, after all, they are in Felucca for their own choice ?

    I mean, I have heard the argument a thousand time how those who play Felucca do not like playing Trammel ruleset.

    So, why even care turning a red into a blue with pardons ?

    The game needs to have a DETERRANT from wanting to do too much pkillling.

    If there is so much desire in reds to turn to blue using pardons it shows to me that murder counts do are felt and thus, still work as a deterrant to do player killing too much.

    It kinda keeps the problem under check and contains it. This is GOOD for the game, IMHO.
     
  43. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    While driving into work this morning I really think there should be a risk to using these pardons. As a poster mentioned they are fakes after all. I'd love to see a 1 in 50 chance of these giving a extra 10 counts as the scribe miswrote it and the guards just apply...oh my the havok this would do in tram.

    This all said I also think these should not show in any non fel based treasure chest as it does not apply to these areas.

    Dev's give some of this a thought please.
     
  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    My reply was intended in regards to the argument where some players might be wiping counts off while sleeping (or at school or work or wherever, just not at the computer playing the game...).

    Since in order to stay logged one has to engage into activities in the game, if one is sleeping (i.e. away from the computer), I see no other way to do it but using scripts...

    Of course wiping counts while playing the game, attendedly, is very fine. Still, it takes so many hours playing the game to wipe counts off.........
     
  45. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Popps I don't know what shard you play on or if you pvp often but these are going to hinder the game and you can quote me on that.

    The main downside of taking more than 5 counts is you turn red and lose all virtues and the ablity to go to tram, this is all. Staying blue and griefing people with even less downside is going to be a huge advantage to the types that have no regard for others.

    You can see it all day in the players who pvp yet will never murder people, they stay out of factions yet are involved in the fights. There is little a pvper or guild can do to these people as they just come back and grief the field more. Now there is a good chance that even switching your char to a blue so as to even the playing field won't be much of a advantage(switching from your red to a blue so these types have to murder to still pvp which rarely happens).

    You wait untill people have 10+ of these stocked in the bank and tell me what its like seeing them murder all day with not a single down side because this is what will happen.
     
  46. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am sorry, I may have not expressed myself good enough.

    I am actually NOT in favour of pardons and I think that murder counts as they are are good for the game because they keep under check and contain pkilling.....
     
  47. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran
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    I think people are going way over the top on these pardons!

    The only effect i see is more pvp action which can only occur in fel which is a lawless place!

    To also say people will be murdering all day long with no downside is also wrong. They will have to actually do the maps to get the items or pay for them.

    It may Also improve some peoples view of being a red char. Allthough people talk about the restrictions of being a red noone talks about the upsides and there are upsides. Those people who maybe went red before paniced and burnt the count then never pvp'd again would now have the option of turning red having a go and seeing if they enjoy it. If they dont not all is lost.

    AND this reds cant goto trammel no they cant but most have a blue char that can goto tram so really they dont have a downside anyway.

    The rate in the comment sounds resonable to me. People have to actually aquire the maps in the first place which isnt easy if your after the lvl 6 maps. Especially now there will be competition for them.

    The greifing moan is nonsense! In UO you will allways get greifers whatever you do. Right now the Biggest tool in the greifers tool box is this stupid general shard chat. On Europa all day long it seems we have people making racist remarks swearing arguing belittling players i dont see all the complaints about the shard chat and i dont see anything being done to monitor it.

    Overall this has just put thunters back on the map! They can now make a decent living from thunting again! Nice to see another set of skills useful in UO once more!!
     
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  49. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I misread the tone of your post but picked it up in another thread. Glad you see the light:gun: