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The state of UO, and a suggestion to the Devs

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ShaunOfPac, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. ShaunOfPac

    ShaunOfPac Guest

    I made a come back to UO recently, urged by an old friend. I was excited, hoping to find the same level of fun and excitement the game once held. However, I was sadly disappointed.

    Long ago when the game was released, there was only one world. And within this world, you were free to do whatever you wish. There wasno such thing as "leet" items, in fact, most everything people used was GM made. There was no item insurance, so death had a real meaning. You die, you lose what you have. Having a thief could be lucrative, being a PK extremely profitable. In time, some people who couldn't compete began to become spiteful. OSI was bombarded by people whining about other people killing them or stealing their items. This led to the release of Ultima Online: Renaissance, and marked the beginning of the end for UO.

    The thing that made UO so great was that it was different from any other MMORPG. No other game offered you the freedom UO did, or the level of excitement. With the introduction of Trammel, UO took its first big step towards becoming another Everquest (Which was released after T2A and was immensely popular. So, OSI tried to copy some of their ideas to pull more players). Felucca was left mostly for the PvP'ers, but was still PACKED. I could go to Yew gate and find 2 dozen or more people there at any given time, easily. Now, you're lucky to find one.

    Then UO realeased Third Dawn, and Lord Blackthornes Revenge, each time taking UO further and further away from its roots. We (The old school players, mainly in the PvP community) responded, and warned OSI that they were killing them game. They didnt listen. Then came the introduction of power scrolls, which completely threw off the balance of PvP. Then as soon as AoS launched, I called it quits and shipped off to bootcamp.

    I come back 5 years later, and all of the predictions came true. UO is a wasteland, a dying game barely struggling to hold on. In order to maintain, OSI has upped the montly fee, and offered a ton of new perks for you to pay for with real cash. They have made UO just another run of the mill MMORPG by trying to be like the others. Its pathetic, really.

    Devs, do you realize how many people are playing free shards that mimic T2A and UO:R? Literally over 7,000. I personally know of at least 400 that would come back to an OSI server if they put one up that was UO:R ruleset, prior to the introduction of champ spawns. Thats a big chunk of change back in EA's pocket.

    Heres a few screenshots, just so you get an idea of what it used to be like. There would be faction sigil raids with over 300+ people participating. They would go all night, and the fighting was exhilirating. Think about it OSI, how hard would it be to take an old UO:R disc, and put up a shard with it? I can assure you, it would bring back a LOT of business. I'm willing to bet on it.

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  2. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I'm no fan of the Trammel/Felucca split either. However, I remember very well that the majority of players felt really annoyed about the way PvP worked back in the Early Days, and UO probably lost a lot of subscribers due to their out-of-control PvP issues.

    I think, the problem should have been solved differently. Instead of creating a mirror of Britannia (which basically split the player community and allowed playing without interaction between both groups), the PvP system should have been changed in a way to make it less griefing to the normal players and more momentous to the PKs.

    However, possible reasons for dwindling player activity may be different ones:

    First reason: UO has become more item-based. Most players play UO only for items and do not care about communities anymore. People rather "do Mel" for the 10000th time trying to get their Crimson Cincture, instead of joining a fun and challenging player-run event.

    Second reason: UO technology (i.e. the client) is so out-dated that no new players will even consider playing that game. Everyone I ask if they'd play UO says, the game looked so bad that they didn't even care about the content and the game depth.

    The problem is not really the loss of the old PvPers, but the lack of newcomers!
     
  3. ShaunOfPac

    ShaunOfPac Guest

    I never said UO is dead because all the PvP'ers left, I'm saying its dead because its just like every other MMORPG now, except with ****ty graphics. People played UO because it was one of a kind, now its. . . not.

    And I hear people reported this thread saying I'm posting pics from a free shard. . .Actually, that is Pacific in 2002. I guess some people dont remember a UO without uber suits and colors????
     
  4. Bigmikeuk

    Bigmikeuk Guest

    Totally I couldn't agree more.

    I put it to the Devs that the next expansion should be called "SNEAKY MIKE'S AGE OF PIRATE PWNAGE"

    This exciting new expansion will feature:

    1: There will be an event where Tramel is DESTROYED by pirates (if you think ninjas are better than pirates your a ***).

    2: There will be an event where Ilshanar is INVADED by pirates *insert rubbish plot line here*, this will lead to it being Feluca rules.

    3: (you may see a pattern here) Malas is erm... raided by pirates and mostly destroyed. It can keep Luna cos it’s good for vendors and also Doom... But *insert rubbish plot here* it's magically become Feluca rules too.

    4: Players can only have a limited amount of blessed/insured items

    5: New player customisation to allow hook hands, peg legs, eye patches and shoulder mounted parrots!

    6: Towns can have limited guard zones, but barely any NPC vendors. Move all the NPCs to Bucs Den where there are no guards.

    7: Introduction of new pirate ships!

    8: New NEVER SEEN BEFORE lands! Loads of sea and islands to conquer.

    9: I've run out of ideas!!!!! I can't just sit around here pulling them out my arse all day :)

    Well anyway, that's the new expansion out early 2009!

    PRE ORDER SNEAKY MIKE'S PIRATE PWNAGE AT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER TO AVOID DISSAPOITMENT! (Free eye patch with every copy).


    :bs::drama::eek:snap::lame::ten::owned:
     
  5. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Trammel didn't destroy pvp. Cheating did.
     
  6. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    lol i remember the place to be in the game was the city of dead always full of players, and also my GM made valorite suit that was looted an hour after i bought it lol.happy days lol.
     
  7. Bigmikeuk

    Bigmikeuk Guest

    I disagree. I wouldnt care about the cheating so much if I could run around PKing all the Tram nubs to make me feel better.

    They are so smug... Sat in Tramel... Eating cakes... Laughing at me!
     
  8. Syncros

    Syncros Guest

    Since the Devs allowed cheated to continue It's the reason I left and wont come back. I should'nt have to dl outside proggys to be competitive in pvp or other area's of the game. Plus introducing new skills and such is fine too but leaving them overpowered for a year or more is totally stupid.

    Its good they finally replaced some of the Devteam with ppl that actually played UO over the ones that didnt even play any Ultima series and screwed UO over more.
     
  9. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    ive been playing uo for many years my main account is 130 months out of that whole time ive never wanted to quit.

    but this week is going to be the straw that broke the camels back. ive got 4 accounts and im ready to quit them all.
     
  10. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Long ago there was only one game and in that game people played to keep from being bored. Lets face it. The problem with UO right now is that its over 10 years old and hasn't recieved a serious update in 10 years. WoW is updating their graphics again with their expansion and they update their UI every single patch. UO simply fell by the way side because of the lack of much need graphical and ui changes. Add that to the fact that WoW is now shifting its focus towards small group play coupled with grouping tools that make the game fun to play in a group and you see where a lot of the gaming population has went and why.

    If UO is to have any future then they need to rewrite the entire game from the ground up keeping what works and trashing what didn't. I don't see how they can do that without making a UO2.

    On the same note, do you have any idea how much it sucks trying to catch up with players that have played the game 10 years longer than you have? In WoW its a non-issue because the game basically resets every year or so, but in UO having that level of "experience" and the "wealth" associated with it can be a REAL advantage over someone just entering the game, and in MMORPGs players really do need to be on equal standing to enjoy the game.
     
  11. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Cheating was part of it, but really destroyed pvp was a lack of content. Killing the same people over and over again at Yew gate got very stale, and champion spawns got old and boring. When the game population started dropping the price of gold fell and so did the price of items. Power scrolls are easily obtained by legitimate means without ever stepping foot in Felucca any longer, and the average player fights to get into the zerg guild instead of fighting against the zerg guild, so in the end no one was left to pvp with.
     
  12. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Reason why UO is circling the drain = Pathetic management in all aspects of the game.
     
  13. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    so you want them to revert back? or create new shards? I personally think they need less shards but then you get an issue with customers and their housing...
     
  14. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Imagine, if you will,....head dev goes into the BIG meeting.....brings all this up, as breifly as possible.....and gets voted down, shot down, rejected....

    Ya gotta remember, it's not upto the devs......I'm sure they would if they could. This so-called "dying game" is limited. First off, by the greedy corporate suits.....secondly, by what's in it already.

    Items, items, items, and more items. It's cyber materialism at it's worst.
    I remember the old days....trammel hasn't a thing to do with it...(weak sauce excuse)...it's the damn cheating.

    Face it, little what's his name in the basement, thinks he's Gods gift to online playing because the twit can run a script. Poor sap isn't learning anything, save for cheating....and EA and Mythic teaches him that....while paying for it....a tuition.

    All in all Mr. Op.....you got your opinions, we've got ours.....doesn't mean you're right.....no matter how much you type.

    Wanna quit, go for it, .....just a game.

    later
     
  15. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    October 2007, new characters trained in New Haven, Catskills... 418.
    October 2008, new characters trained in New haven, Catskills... 56.

    Guess you are correct Pike.
     
  16. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Shaun you are dead on! We need one server where we had the PvP rule set during the T2A and UO:R. I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more! That was the Golden Era of UO.:thumbup1:

    For the people who didn't PvP in those days it's pointless trying to explain to them what it is your talking about. And your right the Freeshards have tons of people playing on them not because they're free but because they use that ruleset.

    My guild of 15 or so have all left UO and it is without question that is was change to PvP rules. The Dev team made big mistakes listening to the cry babies about how PvP was unbalanced at that time when the reality was there were players who were just very very good under that system.

    When people that say players didn't leave the game because of those PvP changes circa T2A/UO:R I know that it's total nonesense because I can vouch first hand that players did.

    Many many times did I stand in a circle with friends and even enemies dueling on top of Wrong or Hedge Maze testing our PvP skill and metal against each other.

    If you didn't know what your were doing the fight could be over in less than 10 seconds. If you did a duel could last up to an hour or someome called stoppage because they ran out of reagents.

    If DEV's did introduce a shard with that ruleset T2A/UO:R I would transfer in a heartbeat no question. And once word got out the old schoolers would come back and duel another day. EA would probably lure a good portion of those players from the Freeshards.

    Anyhow I refuse to PvP today because of how the rules are today. It's total garbage getting dismounted and then having a pet thrown on me that I can't out run on foot or out manuever on foot.

    Like I said unless you were there in the 'dueling' days to experience you just don't understand how glorious those days were.

    I'm with ya Shaun all the way.:popcorn:
     
  17. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Bottom line is this: The game prior to LBR had a good balance between the casual player/new player and the power gamer. PvP was fairly well balanced to the point every player could participate and the power gamer would still have the slight advantage without being unstoppable.

    After LBR the game is a nightmare for anyone who isn't an achiever. Casual and new players get pushed further and further away from high end content with each new addition. More and more high end content is a mob with thousands of HP that insta kills a player without high end gear and legendary skills. It's a recipe for failure.

    If you want a healthy game you have to have equality between playstyles and an ease of use for the game that encourages new players to participate in all game systems. You can't simply dump all content on the achievers and keep UO afloat. It's not WoW. That's not the game we all bought.
     
  18. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    lol
     
  19. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    could not have said it any better, i miss my mage, and my trible spear lol
     
  20. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Word.
     
  21. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

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    The first pic is awesome. No ethys or Chargers, only real horses... :thumbup1:
     
  22. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Also, no stump hack or field spell art hacks.... That is the UO I want to play.

    I doubt you can find an active PvPer right now that doesn't feel like they have to cheat at least minimally to have even a slight chance of participating in the current PvP system.
     
  23. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Something else caught my eye, only [tame] horses and dragons. No bonded pets, that means if your pet dies, it's gone for good and you have to tame another. I love the bonding change :)

    Another thing, almost everyone is decked out in GM archer/heavy archer suits heh.
     
  24. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    I've been asking, hell, begging for a "classic shard" for 5 years now.

    But the answer is almost always the same: Silence. Except for every once in a while when we get a "Not in the plans" or a flat out "No."

    UO's future hangs on Stygian Abyss. I would assume that their attitude towards a retro shard is the same as it has ever been.
     
  25. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Well I think it would be a successful shard problem is they are probably comparing it to SP which I don't think turned out so well. That and they want to keep the coding universal but as someone pointed out how hard is it to thrown in a UO:R disk and start it up.

    It's all about the ruleset which many don't understand. The Halberd Wielded Mages and katanas for finishers was great. The macers with the war axe would destroy your armor and suck your stamina and you had to feed your horse apples or it'd become exhausted. It was all about the Pre-casting and executing the combos which could be countered by those who knew what they were doing.

    I'll always cling to the hope that they bring for a T2A/UO:R shard. Those against it...guess what...you don't have to play on that shard so no need for dissent.

    I just don't see what it can hurt...
     
  26. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Word^2

    I'm talking about cheating in its many various aspects (especially in relation to PvP); not to be confused with using advanced & legal tactics.
     
  27. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    I wish they would bring back Abyss AND LEAVE IT!!! I wanna be orange!!! :) (for all of you who remember what I'm talking about)
    If I remember correctly I logged out of Abyss the last time an orange ghost lol Good times
     
  28. Cybrdragon

    Cybrdragon Guest

    When I started playing WoW, I was apalled to find the extent to which UO had copied things from that game. I knew UO copied a lot from Diablo/Diablo 2 when AoS came out, but I was really shocked at how much since then has been ripped off from that and other games. It really borders on plagerism and copyright violation, and at the very least, shows uncreative minds that don't come up with much original content.

    On an up note, the Stygian Abyss "upgrade" does seem to be doing something uniquely UO, for a change. They should do more stuff like this.
     
  29. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Just remmember PVP is the minority of uo players. The old times was good because it was the wild wild west going through walls every bug was a feuture. They forget to lock down a item when putting a new area up it becomes a daily rare not a bug. Moving to places not meant to be moved to was exciting. Unfortunetly any new player leaving a town returns back naked and either quits or tries again. Kill first ask questions later. They did lose alot of players because of it and of course it was pretty much the only mmorpg out there at the time so options where limited. Nobody was balanced. Some players much better developed than others balance means everything the same which is conssitant with a assemply line of a product nothing stronger than the other. But in earlie Uo everyone had the potential to be stronger than the other person but there always was someone better.
     
  30. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    Couldn't agree more. Thank you for this post. UO is about to lose another veteran when I hang up my spurs in February when my current 6 month subscription runs out.

    The item chase is just no where near as fun as the freedom of the original (thought I came on at LBR's release) game. This has been said thousands of times and none of the devs seem to get it.
     
  31. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    In a way it's a similar problem that DAoC has.

    They have released one version of a "classic" server, so I know Mythic isn't outright against the idea of retro shards. However, they continued to add content from new expansions to the classic servers, kind of defeating the point.

    Now they are speaking of releasing an "Origins" server to get back to the basics of DAoC. I'm sure it will do well if they ever release it (no new news in months), but here's the problem for retro UO and retro DAoC:

    The playerbase.

    When UO started, people didn't have an option to play a Trammelized Diablo-style version of UO. We were all playing together. Many different kinds of playstyles existed on each shard.

    PvPers, PvEer, RPers, Crafters, etc... we all existed together.

    When you start releasing specialty shards, then you are going to see that playerbase split and go to their preferred playstyle shards.

    The retro shard may end up just being the "PvP shard". That doesn't appeal to me. I didn't love classic UO because of the PvP... the risk was a PART of the reason I loved it, but I was never a big PvPer. But those are the people who are going to flock to the retro server. Understandable. But if there is no reason/motivation for other playstyles to come, then yeah, I think it would be a failed experiment.

    Same with Origins... DAoC has hardcore RvR players, but it used to have a good mix of PvE and RPers. Who's going to come back to Origins? The RvRers definitely... but the PvE and RPers? It seems to be a gamble whether they will come back or not. And without them, there's no chance of reliving the DAoC "glory days".

    Anyway, that's just more of my thoughts on it. I would still love to see a retro shard and hope that Mythic delivers one someday.
     
  32. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    I think everyone would be satisfied with a pre-LBR shard.
     
  33. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    You make some excellent points here. I love Trammel, I will admit that... however, here is what I see as "missing" in UO. Emotion! Back in the day (10 years ago) one minute I was happy, joking with friends, the next minute I was running for my life and on an adrenaline rush like you wouldn't believe and then I was DAMN MAD bacause I lost my 10k suit of bronze armor that I had saved up for months to purchase. Now??? If I interact with a monster in game, it's because I'm pretty darn sure I can beat it and I usually do. I know for a fact that I won't lose anything even if I lose the fight (it's called insurance) I don't go to Fel because I know I will be killed (I don't PVP) There is no adrenaline anymore. I could go live in on a retro shard but then I would not have my safety net...Trammel. I think there are a lot of us who do miss the old emotions and interactions but we are unwilling to walk away from being able to mine and actually keep our ingots.
    That's just how I feel about the whole thing :)
     
  34. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    The thing is... lots of people can pinpoint a certain publish that they considered the beginning of the end of classic UO.

    Trust me, I've seen people here try to agree on a specific point in time for UO to "roll back" to. It isn't pretty!

    For the record, I'm not too picky... Anything pre-LBR would be fine with me, so I do agree that I would be satisfied with that. :thumbup1:
     
  35. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    RTLFC....



    Then get them to sign a legally-binding contract which says they will return, and pay for a UO retro-server... with the rider that that if they are the only inhabitants of that server, they will have to meet the full costs between them. There have been innumerable posts from people who say "I know 500 people who would come back if..." yet when the posters are asked to put theit money where their mouth is, they go terribly quiet.



    I can also post screenies of me in the "glory-days" of Factions. 50/60 people on screen, insane battles, sigil raids, etc. We must all accept that UO is a different game nowadays.
    Factions, and general PvP now needs lures to drag people in.
    Yet even this is done badly... the current "Faction" event prohibits my TB mage from defending Trammel Britain 'cos he's red.



    Quote of the week.



    .... Welcome to the current climate of PvP in UO. Small, sad people, who are happy to cheat, as long as they get the chance to kill anyone who doesn't want to play their way. (and who are not quite intelligent enough to spell the name of the facet on which most people play correctly.)



    Sadly, that's where it all falls down.
    Everyone has their own version of "Classic" UO.
    There would be endless bickering about which version should be applied to a classic shard.
     
  36. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    I suppose its time someone brought up having a pre-something shard yet again. At one time the mods here locked threads about them because they were pointless. Here's why there won't be a pre-something shard...

    1. Only a few players would have a decent ping to the shard. The rest of the world would have a rotten ping and wouldn't play on the shard.

    2. There aren't enough players for the shards we have. Adding another shard wouldn't really attract many new or returning players, just spread the already low population around a bit more.

    3. No two players can agree what the 'something' in 'pre-something' should be.

    4. The devs have said they literally do not have the old code. So they would have to re-engineer it and they don't have the resources to do so. They also don't have the resources to back-engineer all the bug fixes.

    5. The devs have also stated they do not have the resources to support yet another code-base. They already have two clients (2D and KR) and two servers (normal and Siege) and would need to support one more of each for a pre-something shard.

    6. The dev team have said it won't happen.

    So there is zero chance of this happening and people can stop asking again.

    Fox
     
  37. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    I'm not computer saavy enough to know how to cut and paste quotes so I just responded inside the original post. My responses are marked by asterisks.
     
  38. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    Hush, Fox.


    You are being far too logical for UHall.
     
  39. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    Those pictures that you took were more than likely when factions were first released. Of course the population would be huge to try something new. I could take some screen shots of when they made changes to Doom, or the magincia event last year, and show you as many people on one screen in multiple shots. The events this year are spreading people out more than just 4 faction bases, or one area. I see quit a few people all over the place these days.

     
  40. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Damn,

    I just want a pre pub 57 shard that works.

    :p
     
  41. Oriana

    Oriana Babbling Loonie
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    :lol::lol::lol::lol: Best quote here!!
     
  42. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Don't forget that "the dev team" is not some kind of hive mind. You have management coming and going every year or so. It only takes one of them to push for a retro shard to make it potentially happen.

    So that's why these threads will never go away.

    But I am grateful that Stratics has decided to let us discuss this topic without locking them. So thank you for that!
     
  43. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I was one of the MANY players that the OP drove away because I couldn't play without some idiot trying to kill my character and loot my stuff.

    Sure the old days were fun.... I spent many hours standing at the bank waiting for someone to get guard whaked and run to loot their body, with 20 others.

    I did play on the abyss shard after I gave up the regular shards. That was my favorite shard!
     
  44. ShaunOfPac

    ShaunOfPac Guest

    The Devs dont have the code? ****, I still have my T2A disc and my UO:R disc, I'll be more than happy to send it to them :) As far as a ping issue, do one east coast and one west coast shard. I'd name some free shards that constantly have over 500 people playing at a time but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do that, haha. The simple fact is, EVERYONE had their place in the old UO. Crafters made a lot of money, considering everyone used GM equipment, and occasionally magic weapons (My silver, exceedingly accurate katana of vanquishing was ungodly way back when, lol). PvP AND crafting were much more rewarding. I truly miss the old bounty system. For those who weren't around, when you were PK'ed you were given the option of putting a bounty on the head of the guy who killed you. Peoples bounties were accumulative, and all you had to do to collect it was kill the PK, use a bladed object to dismember his body and bring his head to a guard. The top bounties were displayed on bulletin boards in towns, so everyone could see. I remember having an over 900k bounty on my head, and this was back when simply having one million gold made you unbelievably rich, lol.
     
  45. Oriana

    Oriana Babbling Loonie
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    There's a big difference between the client code and the server code. That's the code that is so difficult to muddle through. The servers have been updated countless times since then. Code gets broken or lost.
     
  46. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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  47. deadite

    deadite Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend It's My Birthday

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    And as far as code goes, I know the guys who did the OSI Archive recently at Mythic found a TON of code from old versions of UO. They were complaining because so many people were writing in to request the code (as if they would give out the code while the product is still available).

    Check out wcnews.com for more information on the archiving. I hope we end up seeing what was finished in the never-released Lost Vale expansion for U8!

    They are planning on indexing it and giving it back to Mythic. So one day, they should have plenty of original code at their fingertips.

    But honestly, I don't think original code is the way to do the "rollback". Just look at the free shards that used the .NET language to build new servers. That code has got to be much cleaner and easier to manage...
     
  48. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    Wasn't it cool? I never understood why they took Abyss down. Twas a sad day for many!!!
     
  49. Dain

    Dain Guest

    You're either delusional or a trammy in denial.

    Im shooting for both.